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  #1  
Old 10-16-2017, 11:37 AM
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Default Convict says bad things about family visits

https://thecrimereport.org/2017/10/1...he-free-world/

His idea is basically that a lot of those families would be better off without ties to the imprisoned family member.

Seems to me that should be up to them.

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Children whose fathers fail to provide guidance and structure do not develop self-control and, as a consequence, are more prone to aggression, according to psychologist Ervin Staub.
This is what the future will bring when many prisoners enter their children’s household upon being released. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
It's making me stop and think.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:08 PM
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Along the lines of inmates who get in a married man's ear in order to "remind" him that all women cheat on inmates and eventually leave because he can't maintain a relationship. It makes him feel better to put everyone on his level.

He sounds really angry about his own upbringing and circumstance. Of course every parent should weigh the risk/benefit (and err on the side of caution) when exposing their children to a parent with addiction or violence in their history. But to say that the majority of inmates participate in family events because of pretense just sounds...bitter. :/
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:59 AM
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He's working off several premises that are unproven or just wrong.

First, he says nothing about whether or not his father was imprisoned and what effect that might have had on him.

Second, he says that too many of those getting family visits beat their wives//girlfriends to the detriment of them and their kids. As far as I'm aware, anyone with a domestic abuse charge (even if no conviction) is barred from family visits.

Third, the women who go on these visits (with or without children) are wives, not girlfriends (in most states, I'm sure), and are already planning on their husbands returning home to them.

Fourth, almost all of these women are glad to see a parole officer coming to do a home visit to approve the living quarters for parole.

Sounds like a very bitter man, but deflecting his problems onto others is not a valid argument.
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:40 AM
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Well this is a no-brainer. Families with two parents in the home do better than families with just one parent all across the board. If one of the parents is missing (let alone in prison), the family (and children) are already at a significant disadvantage.

The Mom leaving the incarcerated Dad and remarrying a free man will almost always be better for the family.

**edit**

Doesn't mean they necessarily should, of course.

Last edited by jsanner; 10-18-2017 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:18 AM
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I will simply say that my son and I were not disadvantaged by my divorce from his father and becoming a single parent. The abuse while the marriage was in force, on the other hand, was deeply damaging.

It all depends on the choice of partner. In the author's case, from the sound of him, anyone would be better off divorcing him. I don't believe that's necessarily true for most (or even many) imprisoned fathers.
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:32 PM
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My guy is hearing from other inmates how no girl is waiting. They are all screwing around. Yadda yadda

Everyone's experience is different. They can only speak from what they know, but some should keep their opinions to themselves. This guy has his own views and bitterness. Sad part is that it can spread like an infection.
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:14 PM
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He also forgets that those families and their environment are not necessarily ideal either.

I don't mean to blame the people who are making an effort to raise the child, or children, left behind by the incarcerated parent and to visit the prison. They are doing their best, or at least they are doing something. I just mean that the reality is more complex and it's not necessarily as if everything would be so great if only the inmate was not in the picture.

It really depends on the particular individuals and situations, because sometimes the family and the child would really be better off without the incarcerated parent, but sometimes that parent's contribution is still better than nothing.
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:31 PM
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He really should show both sides of these types of functions the families who are brought together and strengthened not just the bad. My children are MEN and our family visits allow us to bond in that way. He is a bitter man who would not know what to do I'm sorry for him.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:41 PM
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i disagree. when i got family visits they were great, kept me in line.
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Well this is a no-brainer. Families with two parents in the home do better than families with just one parent all across the board. If one of the parents is missing (let alone in prison), the family (and children) are already at a significant disadvantage.

The Mom leaving the incarcerated Dad and remarrying a free man will almost always be better for the family.

**edit**

Doesn't mean they necessarily should, of course.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:11 AM
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i disagree. when i got family visits they were great, kept me in line.
2 Earners in the home is better than 1 earner in the home every time. It doesn't mean a 1-earner family can't do it. Many do. My family did while my father was in prison. The family visits might be great for the inmate. Or for the family.

But having a second earner in the family will produce tangible benefits that the one earner family simply cannot, this isn't something that can be disagreed with, numerous data and studies back this up for all walks of life, all races/ethnicities and all socioeconomic levels.

Kids raised by two parents are more likely to attend college, are physically and emotionally healthier, are less likely to be physically or sexually abused, less likely to use drugs or alcohol and to commit delinquent behaviors, have a decreased risk of divorcing when they get married, are less likely to become pregnant/impregnate someone as a teenager, and are less likely to be raised in poverty, etc etc.
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Old 10-20-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jsanner View Post
2 Earners in the home is better than 1 earner in the home every time. It doesn't mean a 1-earner family can't do it. Many do. My family did while my father was in prison. The family visits might be great for the inmate. Or for the family.
Having two parents in the home is not equal to having two "earners". Many two-parent homes have one who chooses not to work outside of the home. And having two parents in the home when one is unstable and bringing home income doesn't automatically improve conditions for a child.

I had two parents in the home. I was raised in poverty, I was sexually abused, I've been divorced, earned a four year degree...

Stats are nice and helpful, but they're weak points when discussing subjects with shades of grey. You alienate people with experiences not reflected in the numbers.

But the OP was specifically discussing the "pretense" that inmates use family visits/events as a way to solidify their own post-release security with little to no regard for the family unit. It's based on his opinion and biased observation.
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Old 10-20-2017, 10:20 AM
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jsanner, you have a rather minimalist view of 'family'. Yours seems only focused on money coming in. Many families live pretty close to or below the poverty line, but manage to love their children and raise them well.

What you seem to miss is that the deck is stacked....fewer amenities (often none at all) in the schools, job deserts, grocery deserts, etc. And that's not because the people who live there are unworthy, but because those are the areas they were pushed into by housing segregation agreements and laws and red-lining. And because most businesses won't try to move in there because their profits won't be enough for their share-holders (ah yes, capitalism at it's best). Change some of those things and then remeasure who succeeds or fails.
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Old 10-20-2017, 10:21 AM
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Along the lines of inmates who get in a married man's ear in order to "remind" him that all women cheat on inmates and eventually leave because he can't maintain a relationship. It makes him feel better to put everyone on his level.
I think this is a HUGE part of why my husband and I didn't work out. Because I was hardcore loyal to the very end...but he had bugs in his ears planted by this celly or that telling him that there's no way a good looking girl could be loyal for years. Even though I work full time and do part time work and raise 4 kids and maintain a house and flock of birds and garden...no extra time at all...he started questioning me. Imposing more and more rules until one day I broke. The time didn't bother me, the distance didn't bother me....the lack of trust and constant questioning...calling 15 times in a row...that is what did it.
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Old 10-20-2017, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jsanner View Post
2 Earners in the home is better than 1 earner in the home every time. It doesn't mean a 1-earner family can't do it. Many do. My family did while my father was in prison. The family visits might be great for the inmate. Or for the family.

Well this is a no-brainer. Families with two parents in the home do better than families with just one parent all across the board. If one of the parents is missing (let alone in prison), the family (and children) are already at a significant disadvantage.
jsanner....Do you have children? I have a hard time listening to parenting advice from someone who doesn't have any experience in the matter. Do you understand how much childcare costs? Often times a person is working just to cover the cost of childcare and maybe part of the groceries. Do you know how difficult it is for both parents to be working AND get kids to school on time and pick them up on time and not miss work to do it. And if they can't then you are paying more in childcare for someone to watch them after school. Say you have 2 children under 5 years old in child care and you work 5 days a week. That's $1400 a month in childcare. Of course it's the parent's choice to have the children and therefore their responsibility to provide for the child in all ways. And Gods know none of us went into parenting hoping that everything went to hell and we ended up single parents or someone loses their job and you're making it work on one income.

I will tell you one thing...I've always provided my children with love and stability. With or without a man. With or without a second "earner" in the home. They've always had food on the table and new clothes and shoes. Having a second parent in the family means very little. It's stability and love that matters.
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridyrr.Likn View Post
jsanner....Do you have children?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridyrr.Likn View Post
I have a hard time listening to parenting advice from someone who doesn't have any experience in the matter.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridyrr.Likn View Post
jDo you understand how much childcare costs?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridyrr.Likn View Post
Do you know how difficult it is for both parents to be working AND get kids to school on time and pick them up on time and not miss work to do it.
Not nearly as difficult as it is for a single parent to be doing all of this because his/her spouse is in prison.

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jI will tell you one thing...I've always provided my children with love and stability.
I believe you.

None of this refutes the irrefutable: that children with two parents in the home tend to perform better all across the board.
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:03 PM
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I completely disagree with a lot of stuff said in here. I know many families who have two parents in the home, two incomes and live poorer than someone who is a single family earner. Of course it is always best to have two incomes, that doesn't mean people are living within those means. Two parents in the family is not going to prevent someone from not impregnating someone, or a female getting pregnant. If its gonna happen, it is gonna happen. I had two parents and still ended up in prison. It happens.

This person saying that family visits are not good, is wrong. It maintains ties to their children, it makes the inmate a better person while in prison. I have actually seen it deter kids from following in the parents foot steps. When a non inmate participates in a family visit, then come back and discuss this with me then. A person who has never had a family visit can honestly sit here and voice what it is like until they have been there.
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2 Earners in the home is better than 1 earner in the home every time. It doesn't mean a 1-earner family can't do it. Many do. My family did while my father was in prison. The family visits might be great for the inmate. Or for the family.

But having a second earner in the family will produce tangible benefits that the one earner family simply cannot, this isn't something that can be disagreed with, numerous data and studies back this up for all walks of life, all races/ethnicities and all socioeconomic levels.

Kids raised by two parents are more likely to attend college, are physically and emotionally healthier, are less likely to be physically or sexually abused, less likely to use drugs or alcohol and to commit delinquent behaviors, have a decreased risk of divorcing when they get married, are less likely to become pregnant/impregnate someone as a teenager, and are less likely to be raised in poverty, etc etc.

Last edited by Demlo441; 10-20-2017 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:12 PM
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Yours seems only focused on money coming in.
No, I'm not focused only on money coming in. Money is perhaps the most tangible benefit but the intangible ones (less likely to have mental illness, more likely to have good grades, less likely to have been raped by a family member, etc) are probably more valuable.

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What you seem to miss is that the deck is stacked....fewer amenities (often none at all) in the schools, job deserts, grocery deserts, etc. And that's not because the people who live there are unworthy, but because those are the areas they were pushed into by housing segregation agreements and laws and red-lining.
No I have not missed this. What you have seemed to miss, however, is that the easiest ticket out of those bad schools and grocery deserts is to have a second parent in the home.

Look, I think many of you are under the impression that I am against people having relationships and families with people in prison. I'm not against them whatsoever. Matter of fact, I support those of you who are supporting your husbands, wives, children, spouses, etc 100%. Its awesome that you're supporting these people...our loved ones. I'm simply acknowledging the well documented fact that a child being raised in a home with only one parent is at a significant disadvantage to a child being raised in a home with two parents.
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:17 PM
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First of all, two parents in the home does not prevent rape, child molestation because as we all know, many times this is done either by the parent, parents or someone the family knows. What does having two people in the home have to do with mental illness????????? Mental illness is just that! Two parents in the home is not going to stop someone from having it. Where are you getting your research from?



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No, I'm not focused only on money coming in. Money is perhaps the most tangible benefit but the intangible ones (less likely to have mental illness, more likely to have good grades, less likely to have been raped by a family member, etc) are probably more valuable.



No I have not missed this. What you have seemed to miss, however, is that the easiest ticket out of those bad schools and grocery deserts is to have a second parent in the home.

Look, I think many of you are under the impression that I am against people having relationships and families with people in prison. I'm not against them whatsoever. Matter of fact, I support those of you who are supporting your husbands, wives, children, spouses, etc 100%. Its awesome that you're supporting these people...our loved ones. I'm simply acknowledging the well documented fact that a child being raised in a home with only one parent is at a significant disadvantage to a child being raised in a home with two parents.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:26 PM
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First of all, two parents in the home does not prevent rape, child molestation because as we all know, many times this is done either by the parent, parents or someone the family knows.
Quote:
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What does having two people in the home have to do with mental illness?????????
It has enough to do with two parents in the home to be able to correlate to having less mental illness.

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Originally Posted by Demlo441 View Post
Mental illness is just that! Two parents in the home is not going to stop someone from having it. Where are you getting your research from?
To be honest, this falls into the sort of "common knowledge" sphere. I mean everyone KNOWS a two parent household is better than a one parent household. But I'll humor you:

https://www.centeronaddiction.org/si...n-family_0.pdf

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ795852.pdf
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:36 PM
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I am not agreeing with you in regards to someones mental health and having two parents in the home. People, who have psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar, depression have nothing to do with two parents being in the home. It is mental illness which have to do with chemical imbalances. that has nothing to do with two parents being in the home.

of course we all know a two parent household is better, but sometimes a 1 person household is way better because children are not dealing with the bullshit of a horrible parent.

No need to worry about humoring, because your comments are doing just that.




Quote:
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It has enough to do with two parents in the home to be able to correlate to having less mental illness.



To be honest, this falls into the sort of "common knowledge" sphere. I mean everyone KNOWS a two parent household is better than a one parent household. But I'll humor you:

https://www.centeronaddiction.org/si...n-family_0.pdf

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ795852.pdf
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:18 PM
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It has enough to do with two parents in the home to be able to correlate to having less mental illness.



To be honest, this falls into the sort of "common knowledge" sphere. I mean everyone KNOWS a two parent household is better than a one parent household. But I'll humor you:

https://www.centeronaddiction.org/si...n-family_0.pdf

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ795852.pdf
Neither of those articles address mental illness and two vs single parent raising. The first is about substance abuse and the second on cognitive, social and emotional well-being. Obviously there can be overlap, but saying a two parent household reduces the chance of mental illness is like saying a two parent household reduces the risk of Type 1 diabetes. It doesn't work like that.

But, again, the OP article denounces THE PURPOSE AND BENEFIT of family visiting/events and labels inmate participation as pretense. Regardless of your views of two or single parent households, a two parent family with one incarcerated doesn't follow even those traditional patterns. So, if we can refocus our discussion to inmate participation in family visits and events, please.
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:48 PM
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We've had a struggle to get people to understand mental illness as a biological problem of brain chemistry. The fact though is that not all of it is 100% organic and a strained family environment can at the very least take an existing case of depression or anxiety and make it worse.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:02 AM
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Neither of those articles address mental illness and two vs single parent raising. The first is about substance abuse and the second on cognitive, social and emotional well-being.
There is no need to be obtuse.

Substance abuse aka drug addiction is mental illness and "cognitive, social and emotional well-being" is so closely tied to one's mental state its virtually the same thing.

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But, again, the OP article denounces THE PURPOSE AND BENEFIT of family visiting/events and labels inmate participation as pretense. Regardless of your views of two or single parent households, a two parent family with one incarcerated doesn't follow even those traditional patterns. So, if we can refocus our discussion to inmate participation in family visits and events, please.
I agree wholeheartedly. Way too much thread derailment going on.
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