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  #1  
Old 10-09-2017, 04:53 PM
moonhanger moonhanger is offline
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Default Charged with DV, but am a victim too

I was arrested and charged with felonies related to DV. I am not too worried about the outcome as the affidavits are grossly exaggerated and my ex's testimony was so malicious and obvious in its intent to hurt me that the judge has already made some reductions.

my ex has borderline personality disorder and it has become very clear that I have been the victim of emotional and psychological abuse during our marriage. being male however, it's difficult to explain or even admit to "being hurt by words".

if emotional abuse was a crime, my ex would have been locked up long ago. but how do you explain it and prove it to a court? punching a hole in the wall is visible evidence, but malicious and cruel gaslighting and inflicting emotional torture for weeks on end, while far more damaging to a person, is intangible.

it seems that society does recognize emotional abuse as real however. any advice on how to approach this? I realize it's pretty difficult; battered spouses who act in self-defense and inflict great bodily harm on their abusers are arrested and jailed. if the battering is psychological however....?

what really sucks is that she was once arrested for a physical act as well - aggravated assault w/deadly weapon, but out of loyalty I refused to press charges. now I'm the one facing charges on trumped up and fabricated evidence, based almost entirely on her statement to the police.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:26 PM
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Ask your lawyer. I can imagine it blowing up in your face.

The danger is that you could come across sounding just like the many abusers who whine that they're the real victims.

Do you have a diary or journal or chat logs where you talked about what was going on?

And I know what it is to have a borderline in your life. Check out the books "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and "I Hate You Don't Leave Me".
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:30 PM
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I can't speak on any of the legal side of this, I would guess it's a slippery slope defending DV charges with accusations of DV. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I'm sure your words will have to be chosen carefully. As Minor said, speak with your lawyer.

However, I'm wondering if you're seeing a counselor or therapist already? It might help on both fronts: a therapist can help you to articulate your circumstances in a way that acknowledges the abuse you experienced and working with a therapist or DV group might be viewed by the courts in a positive light in regard to your charges.

I'm sure there are far more male victims than we have literature and voices for. I'm glad you're here and sharing.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:26 PM
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You can help your lawyer by gathering any clinically derived evidence of her disorder, but it's a steep slope to climb to defeat such a charge. Do what you can to research the incidence of female on male DV; there's plenty of literature on it. You/your lawyer may need to educate the judge. (You can also check this thread that has some references you can start with - just google the names.)

At the same time, I note that your title implied that there may be reciprocal violence, or that you've got a bit of history yourself, so if that's true, be very, very careful not to allow your cockiness to show through. Could ruin your entire defense.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:12 AM
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thanks for the replies! I thought I was the problem alone, but in voluntarily taking therapy targeted towards DV offenders, that's when the psychologist found that when it came to emotional abuse, I was not a perpetrator but a very clear case of a victim. I was stunned to hear this, after tormenting myself with guilt and shame, thinking I was the sole perpetrator.

legally, I'll be sure to bring it up with my attorney, but her focus has been to discredit the credibility of my accuser, since without her statement, the DA has no case. It has helped me tremendously that my accuser has strolled into every hearing, confident that she's going to put me away for years. I would think that actual victims of DV would be more traumatized than blatantly vindictive.

I think I just mainly wanted to point out that males can be and are often victims of DV, even though the violence is psychological and not physical, and it is underreported at best, and a lot of guys wouldn't even be able to admit to themselves that they are abused.

We've all heard of the controlling man, using both psychological and physical means to control and abuse a woman. I believe that I am not one in a million, in being a man who is psychologically abused to the point of mental breakdown or worse. While I am someone who prefers to take personal responsibility - a "honorable" masculine trait, the way men express their masculinity may be what is hiding a social problem that's bigger than we thought, and protecting perpetrators from identification, prosecution, and rehabilitation.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:46 AM
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Okay, males are also the victims of physical violence. It's not just psychological. Abusive women follow the same patterns as abusive men. It's not as frequent as you're insinuating, but it is there. Children beat parents, parents beat children, siblings beat on each other. If there is a familial relationship, whether a marriage is involved or not, there is can be abuse.

Now, as to your attorney - make sure your attorney knows that your ex (I'm assuming she's an ex, right) has BPD, give the attorney the names of her therapist and her shrink, even if she's gone off meds and hasn't seen the shrink in a while, give those names. Give what you know of her hospitalization record.

What the DV and the BPD do is give a reason for the psychological abuse, as well as the pattern of abuse. This could very easily be just an extension of domestic violence, and that framework is really helpful if you go to trial. Further, if she is a diagnosed borderline, knowing her borderline cycle can be important because outside of her deliberately abusing you psychologically, this may also just be a part of borderline psychosis and she may very well actually believe you did those things to her. Her entire domestic violence schema may be less nefarious than you think, and more an example of her most florid borderline states.

If you wind up going to court, you need two things - disproving the abuse happened, and providing a framework on which to hang the reason for abuse.

You, otoh, need to do some serious reading about BPD. You should also get into some one on one counseling so you can ascertain whether this was DV, or a DV symptom of a BPD in crisis.

And never assume you know how a DV victim goes into court unless you've worked with the population. Some go in locked and loaded and ready to rumble, if you pardon the mixed metaphor. Besides, you sound like you're going in the same way, fully expecting the case to be kicked. And you're the victim of psychological violence, but you're still able to go in with confidence, right? What makes you think a female victim of physical violence can't or won't do the same thing?
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhanger View Post
thanks for the replies! I thought I was the problem alone, but in voluntarily taking therapy targeted towards DV offenders, that's when the psychologist found that when it came to emotional abuse, I was not a perpetrator but a very clear case of a victim. I was stunned to hear this, after tormenting myself with guilt and shame, thinking I was the sole perpetrator.

legally, I'll be sure to bring it up with my attorney, but her focus has been to discredit the credibility of my accuser, since without her statement, the DA has no case. It has helped me tremendously that my accuser has strolled into every hearing, confident that she's going to put me away for years. I would think that actual victims of DV would be more traumatized than blatantly vindictive.

I think I just mainly wanted to point out that males can be and are often victims of DV, even though the violence is psychological and not physical, and it is underreported at best, and a lot of guys wouldn't even be able to admit to themselves that they are abused.

We've all heard of the controlling man, using both psychological and physical means to control and abuse a woman. I believe that I am not one in a million, in being a man who is psychologically abused to the point of mental breakdown or worse. While I am someone who prefers to take personal responsibility - a "honorable" masculine trait, the way men express their masculinity may be what is hiding a social problem that's bigger than we thought, and protecting perpetrators from identification, prosecution, and rehabilitation.
You sound an awful lot like my EX. Good luck in court!!!
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:23 AM
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While I am someone who prefers to take personal responsibility - a "honorable" masculine trait, the way men express their masculinity may be what is hiding a social problem that's bigger than we thought, and protecting perpetrators from identification, prosecution, and rehabilitation.
Just want to point out that that is NOT a masculine trait. I know a few (j/k - LOTS) of women who also believe that it is right and honorable to take responsibility for their issues.

Thank you.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:24 PM
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Ok.. I'm not a lawyer...

Does this actually WORK? Can you go to a DV trial where you are accused of physical violence and say "well yeah, I hit her, but I hit her because she was hurting me emotionally" and expect to get off?

I am not discounting emotional and psychological abuse. It's been over a decade since my divorce and my physical scars are long healed but I still feel the effects of the gaslighting and emotional abuse today. However... I am really struggling with the idea that emotional abuse could be used as an affirmative defense for physical violence.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:37 PM
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I don't see where he admits to physical abuse....maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I don't think so.

I will admit, however, that once, when I was emotionally and physically battered by my ex, I swung on him and broke his jaw. It was the last time he touched me physically, but the mouth never stopped, well, after it healed.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:44 PM
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I don't see where he admits to physical abuse....maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I don't think so.

I will admit, however, that once, when I was emotionally and physically battered by my ex, I swung on him and broke his jaw. It was the last time he touched me physically, but the mouth never stopped, well, after it healed.
True... I might have assumed based on the wording. My apologies to the OP if I misread.

My curiosity stands though... I wonder what would happen if there was actually physical violence and the accused used that as a defense?

Best of luck to you, OP... and please make sure she is an EX - PERMANENTLY.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:11 PM
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Can it work? It is a rare thing.

If somebody is psychologically torturing you enough, then yes, you can lash out and hit that person, but it is a rare thing.

Look at it this way - it's usually a form of what's called imperfect self defense. But on occasion, it is actual self defense. to be eligible for self defense, you need a person in eminent fear of an unlawful touching, the fear must be reasonable to anybody in a similar position, and the force you use to prevent an unlawful touching must be proportional to the threat. If any one of these things are missing, then the best you can get is imperfect self defense. So, if your fear of an unlawful touching is not reasonable, your self defense is considered, "imperfect" resulting in a conviction, but of a lesser charge, sort of a guilty but with an explanation.

Here's the law school hypothetical on imperfect self defense and self defense: older dude runs afoul of a neighbor. The neighbor swears and spits curses at him for some reason - say his dog shat in Neighbor's yard. So, animus exists between Dude and Nighbor.

Friend hears about this and tells Dude, "hey, I know Neigbor. He's this big time martial arts dude. I think he's won a few MMA contests."

Pal says, "yeah, I hear he's on parole for beating a person half to death for parking in his spot."

Buddy says, "is that the guy? Yeah, I heard he's a steroid shooting meth head, really violent. He was bragging the other day that it took a dozen cops to stick him in a cop car the last time he was busted."

Wife says, "honey, I'm scared. What if he comes after you?"

Chap says, "what if? I heard him making plans with a few of his gang banging cronies down at the 7-11. He is coming for you."

Dude doesn't know what to do. He starts carrying his pistol. A few days later, he sees Neighbor heading down the sidewalk in his direction. dude decides to man up, and kill the bastard before he gets killed. He steps out onto the sidewalk and shoots Neighbor in the shoulder. Somebody calls 911, npNeighbor goes to the hospital, Dude gets charged with attempted murder and asundry other charges.

It goes to trial.

Was this self defense?

Would your answer change if every one of his friends was talking about different people - the MMA fighter lives across the street, the gang banger lives at the end of the block, etc?

The question re his perception include was his fear for his life rational to hm, and was it rational to an objective observer.

Now you can apply the same standard to DV cases. The psychological torture must constitute a real threat, at least to the person committing the violence, and that's to get a guilty to a lesser included. But it might actually make it to a complete self self defense defense.

Make sense?
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:53 AM
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I think it's best to separate the two. I'll handle my charges just based on facts alone, which should secure an acquittal. Now, expect the worst and hope for the best, we know this, so anything could happen. But factually, it was a setup, her third attempt at getting SWAT to come to our house and take me away. The first two times, the cops called BS on her. But she finally figured out how to word things so that the third time was a charm.

....because after really researching this, my ex has BPD, but has a few "covert narcissistic" traits that she uses to protect herself emotionally. She never loses arguments. She lies pathologically. She "splits" on me, breaking my heart and shaking me to the core, then projects and "counter-attacks" to "defend" herself against me being "verbally abusive".

Now, there are two specific incidents of physical violence, one where she fired at me (but missed) and then jumped me, ripped my shirt off, and scratched and bit me literally all over. I've got photos of the gouges, bite marks, and bruises, and I think any cop could look at the ballistics of the otherwise small hole in the door and corroborate the rest of my recollection.

The other is when she was arrested by the cops, confessed to having a loaded, chambered, safety-off, and finger inside the trigger guard, on display and often pointed at me, for three hours while I drove. I said I would not testify against her, so no charges were filed. That was a year ago; since they're felonies and KY doesn't have a statute of limitations on felonies...I wonder if I call them up and say I would testify?

But I think the main point is that our society needs to find a way to recognize psychological violence as a true form of criminal domestic abuse. All the things in a narcissistic rage - I've been hit with that countless times, almost always out of the blue. I've been through periods where she beat me down daily until I lost not only my self-confidence but even just knowing who I was as a man. More than once I said "I wish emotional attacks could be visible, so the cops could see how you've taken a knife to my ego and soul and slashed it to pieces, and lock your abusive self up"...and while a psychologist after some detailed observation could confirm that indeed happened, you can't just call 911 and say "help! my wife is slashing my soul and my ego is dying!"

How do we stop these emotionally violent criminals?
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:06 AM
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We don't you need to get over this crazy and if possible bring up those past charges and testify. Your in a very sick relationship.
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:09 AM
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**How do we stop these emotionally violent criminals? **


Avoid them. Sorry I do not mean to sound flip about it, but the first time there is a hint of this? Run in the opposite direction.

Im sorry for your situation here. I hope it goes away for you. But as you said in the first post......plan for the worst.
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