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The War on Drugs - and the results of it A war against drugs, or against families?

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  #1  
Old 04-03-2017, 07:30 PM
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Default Governors warn Justice Department against increased marijuana enforcement

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Increased enforcement of federal marijuana laws could lead to dangerous and unintended consequences, the governors of four Western states said in a letter to Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin on Monday.

The governors of the first four states that legalized recreational marijuana use — Alaska, Colorado, Oregon and Washington — sent the letter after the Trump administration signaled it would step up enforcement of federal marijuana laws, which often conflict with state laws. In 2013, the Obama Justice Department issued guidance for federal attorneys called the "Cole Memo" that recommended prosecutors avoid pursuing charges against marijuana users and businesses in states that had legalized the drug.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/gove...a-enforcement/

Don't mess with the West, Mr. Sessions.

Out here we don't take too kindly to you Big Government easterners trying to tell us what to do, how to run our own affairs.

Get your big federal mitts off of our states rights, mind your own business, and live and let live.

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Old 04-03-2017, 08:00 PM
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Federal law supercedes anything state.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TheAmazingMrsB View Post
Federal law supercedes anything state.
True, but it is still up to law enforcement in those states whether to enforce those federal laws on the books or not, especially when they come into conflict with state laws.

In Colorado, for instance, it is routine procedure for local police to ignore the federal marijuana statutes and refuse to enforce them or make any arrests. Thus, only federal DEA agents are able to make any arrests, with zero cooperation from the locals.

Expect more of this civil disobedience in those other Western states that have refused to bow to federal pressure.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Nickel Timer View Post
Expect more of this civil disobedience in those other Western states that have refused to bow to federal pressure.
Expect more responses along what has been seen with the threats of cutting funding on sanctuary cities. If the feds really want to play tough, it becomes a matter of cooperate or lose federal funding.

And yes, that IS a big whip they wield, as States discovered when the drinking age went to 21. Louisiana was the last to comply because they were bent over the barrel and could not afford to lose the funding for highways...

Given that it was legal to extort the States over age on alcohol, it will be legal to turn off the federal spigot here.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:26 PM
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Very true, CenTex. And it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

While I'm not a big fan of drug abuse, and think there is legitimate question about the "medicinal" value of marijuana, let alone promoting it for recreational use, it is still pretty clear that Prohibition has been a big failure. It was with alcohol, and it is with marijuana now.

I really think we should take an approach like the Netherlands has in dealing with even hard drug addiction like heroin. Free clinics for the addicted, so they can safely get their fix, without all the associated crime and risks that come from promoting the black market. Because let's face it: a very big chunk of criminal activity in this country, especially organized crime, revolves around the prohibition of drugs.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:57 PM
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Free clinics for drug users...yes...something else for the tax payers to pay for while education goes down the drain.
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sinir.Fridyrr View Post
Free clinics for drug users...yes...something else for the tax payers to pay for while education goes down the drain.
Holland seems to be able to do both without a problem.

It is possible to walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time, you know.

Or we could just keep doing it the hard way, keeping our Prison-Industrial Complex thriving and locking people up for victimless crimes. I suspect that's diverting a lot more funds from education than diverting people from our jails and prisons would be.
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickel Timer View Post
Very true, CenTex. And it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

While I'm not a big fan of drug abuse, and think there is legitimate question about the "medicinal" value of marijuana, let alone promoting it for recreational use, it is still pretty clear that Prohibition has been a big failure. It was with alcohol, and it is with marijuana now.

I really think we should take an approach like the Netherlands has in dealing with even hard drug addiction like heroin. Free clinics for the addicted, so they can safely get their fix, without all the associated crime and risks that come from promoting the black market. Because let's face it: a very big chunk of criminal activity in this country, especially organized crime, revolves around the prohibition of drugs.
I believe much of medical marijuana is a ruse, at least from what I see of it here in Southern California. How much damage or problem it is, I don't know. IMHO marijuana is a problem if it leads to harder drugs. If it doesn't do that I don't understand why the feds care so much. If it does lead to hard drugs then states need to be more careful about their laws.

I support your point on a new approach to hard drug addiction. Here in the US we are failing huge on that by any metric. Many of us on this site understand very well damage caused by addiction to heroin, meth, hard drugs.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:54 PM
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I understand very well the impacts of addiction. My husband was an addict from a child until his early 20s, he still deals with parts of it today though he's been clean 11 years. I lost my father to hep c when I was 19. My husband is currently in for a victimless crime, though not drug related. I get it, I really do. But I think America has a lot more to fix before trying to fix this. Personally I don't see the point of drugs being illegal at all, people are going to do them anyway. I can't tell you how many times I sat in high school classes watching kids snort coke off their desks with teachers present or smoking pot in the hallways. Laws don't prevent anyone from getting anything.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinir.Fridyrr View Post
I understand very well the impacts of addiction. My husband was an addict from a child until his early 20s, he still deals with parts of it today though he's been clean 11 years. I lost my father to hep c when I was 19. My husband is currently in for a victimless crime, though not drug related. I get it, I really do. But I think America has a lot more to fix before trying to fix this. Personally I don't see the point of drugs being illegal at all, people are going to do them anyway. I can't tell you how many times I sat in high school classes watching kids snort coke off their desks with teachers present or smoking pot in the hallways. Laws don't prevent anyone from getting anything.
Drug laws aren't solving the problem. I'm with you on that. Calling for more enforcement of federal marijuana laws; I'm not sure what that is going to fix. Opioid addiction / problem / epidemic is however something that is priority, in my opinion, to at least keep trying to fix. There are a lot of victims. There are a lot of dead people. There are a lot of lives ruined. Not just the lives of the addicts either. Not just a US problem. I know Canada, where I'm from, struggles with it. At least they don't criminalize the extent we do.
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickel Timer View Post
Holland seems to be able to do both without a problem.

It is possible to walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time, you know.

Or we could just keep doing it the hard way, keeping our Prison-Industrial Complex thriving and locking people up for victimless crimes. I suspect that's diverting a lot more funds from education than diverting people from our jails and prisons would be.
Drug offenses are hardly a victimless crime and to claim such is to blatantly overlook the collateral damage. People aren't going to prison for a few joints (save for those that CONTINUE to get caught and have enhancement paragraphs that kick in). Pot offenses that go to prison are generally in the multi pound and multi ton class, in other words- traffickers.

Meth, cocaine and heroin...no sympathy- get caught, go to prison if you refuse to comply with treatment directives included in probation conditions.

I have no qualms with the premise that there is a problem with the hyper-vigilance over things like oxycontin simply because too many doctors are now afraid to prescribe pain medications to patients who actually NEED it.
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:18 PM
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To me it seems very clear that using the criminal law to regulate stimulants (alcohol and other drugs) has been a huge, very costly failure. On the other hand, the LEGAL pharma industry is inundating us with drugs that often do no good and may do lots of harm (see the book by the guy who edited the DSM IV, called 'Saving Normal'). If we spent billions less on enforcing criminal law in these areas we'd have that money to spend on other things - such as education. It's been shown repeatedly that supplying drugs to addicts is far CHEAPER for the public than our current strategy of law enforcement.
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Old 04-06-2017, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvalliant View Post
I believe much of medical marijuana is a ruse, at least from what I see of it here in Southern California. How much damage or problem it is, I don't know. IMHO marijuana is a problem if it leads to harder drugs. If it doesn't do that I don't understand why the feds care so much. If it does lead to hard drugs then states need to be more careful about their laws.

I support your point on a new approach to hard drug addiction. Here in the US we are failing huge on that by any metric. Many of us on this site understand very well damage caused by addiction to heroin, meth, hard drugs.
I would highly suggest you do some research. The reason they push against it is the pharmaceutical industry. Almost all of the funding for bills against the use of medicinal marijuana comes from the pharmaceutical industry. And when you see who lines the political pockets you will find those connections. I am absolutely astounded to see an answer that has obviously zero research behind it. Marijuana is not a gateway drug. It's often one that keeps people from using other drugs.

I'd rather be able to legally smoke a few hundred dollars worth of weed than have to take 22 pills a day which amounts to more than $6000 dollars a month of pharmaceuticals to control my seizures, paralytic migraines, intractable nausea and vomiting, and intractable pain but thanks to the government, I can just continue to suffer.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ♥MYINKDSCORPI0♡ View Post
I would highly suggest you do some research. The reason they push against it is the pharmaceutical industry. Almost all of the funding for bills against the use of medicinal marijuana comes from the pharmaceutical industry. And when you see who lines the political pockets you will find those connections. I am absolutely astounded to see an answer that has obviously zero research behind it. Marijuana is not a gateway drug. It's often one that keeps people from using other drugs.

I'd rather be able to legally smoke a few hundred dollars worth of weed than have to take 22 pills a day which amounts to more than $6000 dollars a month of pharmaceuticals to control my seizures, paralytic migraines, intractable nausea and vomiting, and intractable pain but thanks to the government, I can just continue to suffer.
You miss the point of my ruse comment. There are medical marijuana outlets in our area. The doctor is in house in these places. Anybody can walk in and have a prescription from the doctor in a few minutes. That's convenient for someone who has a legitimate need, but that convenience is abused by users with no legitimate medical reason. That's the ruse.

It de-legitimizes medical marijuana in the public eye. Combined with police have been raiding some of them. The places and the police who raid get a bad reputation. That is not zero research. That has been happening. I have not done it personally but I do have direct experience, on more than one occasion, with close people who do abuse it. I wasn't particularly thrilled about it.

The lax controls, people taking advantage of lax controls, the police reaction has been screwing up medical marijuana and does no good for a legitimate user like you.

California is in the process of legalizing more broadly with Prop 64 so this might become moot here soon anyway. Unless, to the original point of this thread, the feds get more aggressive...
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:40 PM
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Default New attorney general

The new attorney general says the justice department will be going after legal Marijuana! Wrong!
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Old 04-07-2017, 04:48 PM
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I come from a state with legalized recreational and medical marijuana. I can promise you that the number of users didn't skyrocket after those laws passed. Nothing changed in our community except we got a few more legal storefronts. No scary stoned criminals running the streets (we do know how weed works, right?) or an upshot in personal property loss unlike meth.

I don't consider myself extremely liberal when it comes to regulation, if anything I'm on the side of law and order. But I am firmly on the side of decriminalizing. I grew up in a community where weed is part of the culture. It's not demonized or kept in a locked drawer. It isn't some tantalizing and exotic thing hushed around our kids.

In my experience, many people who take issue with marijuana are the same people who casually have a glass of wine, never think twice about taking a Percocet when in acute pain or prescribed medication for anxiety/depression. But marijuana, which has been proven time and again to assist people in these same areas is somehow a "gateway" to illicit activity. I 100% agree that big pharma is pouring money into political pockets to keep legislation against legalization.

I consume marijuana. I'm a responsible, educated, middle-class white woman without a criminal record. I rarely drink nor have I ever had the desire to do hard drugs. I am not an exception and I'm not buying the inflated dangers of marijuana.

Here's the thing: marijuana, like ANY substance, must be used responsibly. You can drink and not get DUIs. You can use pain medication and not start looting. You can consume marijuana and be a stand-up citizen. How you consume is key. But so long as "Reefer Madness" reigns...

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Old 04-07-2017, 07:15 PM
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Um... wrong. While it may be legal in specific states, it is not legal on the federal level. Federal law supersedes state law.

It also might be a good conversation starter if you would actually post more than one or two sentences. Back up your point of view or give more info. Maybe even join in other threads and share an opinion or give advice or support.
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