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  #26  
Old 02-25-2011, 10:42 AM
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Default healthy discussion

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Originally Posted by harasubam View Post
I didnt intend this news to be a debate .demacrats or republicans who care the piont is we need to have change in the justice system the laws that were put up to protect people are not working they are snagging the little people. the drug war laws that were meant to get those high level drug gangs really only snags the addict and with loop holes in the way law is written well meant laws are keeping the wrong people in the system. we need to change things because wghat we are doing isnt working!
I think this is a very healthy discussion - sometimes people speak their "polictical views" but it is what it is - no one is bashing anyone on this topic????
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  #27  
Old 02-25-2011, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by myfreedom2010 View Post
This will never happen b/c the Federal Government will not allow it - heck we are under the budget resolution right now with the potential of the Government shutting down next Friday and over 500,000 people without jobs b/c they can't compromise on the budget!

My BF is a government contractor and is waiting on pins and needles for the outcome of this....

The one thing that was certain in the article is the fact that the FEDERAL PRISONS will run with full man power - meaning they won't be affected by this probable budget suspension...

This whole thing is ridiculous - we went through this in 1995/1996 when Bill Clinton was in office they shut the government down for 20 days and everything went into chaos...

Every year I was in prison the same topic came up - the "what if's" - about releasing "good time offenders" - and as usual it never happened. Unfortunately our society sees the prisons as "punishment" for our crimes and if you really think about it - if some offenders were allowed out early to start paying back on their restitutions, fines, court costs, etc it would be way better off than having them sit there day in and day out...

Prison doesn't reform the individual - the individual reforms themselves....that is if they want to change

My husband has always been an upstanding citizen and I am hoping this gets passed sooner than 2012. Does anyone know if Oregon has anything like this going on? Need something to hope for.
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  #28  
Old 02-25-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shari View Post
Ok one question if this Obamas plan and budget then is it only effecting federal inmates? Wouldn't each state have to have their own plan to release state inmates?

This is exactly what I was thinking.

The Governors of each State would have to have their own plan, because they control their own State, not the President.

If Obama gets involved, I believe he can have input for "Federal". Federal Prisons are overseen by The Federal Bureau of Prisons which are a division of the Justice Department.

And with California being strapped for cash, hopefully Brown will be stepping up to the plate.


I guess we will see.
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  #29  
Old 02-25-2011, 05:19 PM
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We have created a nanny state in this country- let the government take care of us- not only is this unrealistic - it is unsustainable , as we are starting to see with the deficits all around the country.

Honestly if you don't like seeing people get refunds on their taxes don't do taxes - right?????...you sound upset that people get the credits for EIC, Child Care, ETC

I think some people don't realize that it is the middle income citizens who are paying for the tax credits- it certainly is not the rich. There are no free rides so someone is paying for EIC. They are stealing money from people who are working and paying taxes to those who are taking advantage of the system. ( Why should you get money back when you haven't put it in? How is that fair?) The person who posted said some are not working because they want to get the EIC credit.

I would venture to ask - are you against the tax credit for felons working for an employer?

I have not heard of this- therefore no opinion- enlighten, please.

The WOTC Tax Credit? You seem to be against every other tax credit.....
What is the WOTC ?
You are supporting your child in prison correct? Wouldn't you want him/her to be afforded all the "tax credits" he/she deserved?[/quote]
I choose to support my son- I don't expect anyone else to do it.
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  #30  
Old 02-25-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conager View Post
quote:"This will never happen b/c the Federal Government will not allow it - heck we are under the budget resolution right now with the potential of the Government shutting down next Friday and over 500,000 people without jobs b/c they can't compromise on the budget!" end quote


those potential 500,000 people are government employees, not private sector employees and buisnesses. Walmart is not going to shut down, babies will be born, marriages and aniversearies celebrated etc. In other words, life goes on. Big government will never equal a great society. People that work for the government will have to use thier savings to get them over the gultch just as those of us in the private sector have to use ours in time of need and emergency. Being prepared with savings and other extra necessities is a way of life for many of us.


Quote: "Harry Reid and President Obama say a government shutdown would impact Social Security benefits. Experts disagree."

What happens to Social Security if the government shuts down?
"People don't get their Social Security checks." That was President Obama at a press conference last week. unquote

This is a huge delimia. Many people on social security in any form also need to be prepared for the inevitable political showdown. It is harder to save on social security. Basicly when some one else gives you money they (who ever gave you the money) can also give you limits as to what you can do with that money. Nothing is free, especially from the government. Social security was never meant to fund retirement, only to assist with what we are supposed to put aside or plan for. Personaly I have lost three fortunes in my lifetime....all due to one man (my first husband.) I am 46 and Hick (my hubby) and I are working our tails off to assure ourselfs of a decent retirement, one that may use social security but not be dependant on it. With the problems given to social security, I do fear for my friends who are super dependant on it for everything no matter for what reason.



quote: "If they would repeal the recent tax cuts that benefited the already wealthy then the budget deficit would be much less then it is now." unquote

I prepeare taxes for part of my living. If the government repealed the EITC (earned income tax credit) and the child tax/additional child tax credit ad the Making Work Pay schedual M credit, the federal government would save billions each year. I have clients who know exactly how much money they can earn with a paper trail inorder to get the maximum EITC each year. When they get that amount, they arrange to leave their jobs, go on leave etc. I know this because they tell me this. It is not ilegal, just very frustrating. I print out checks that are $6,000 and more, (the most this year so far has been in excess of $9,000) mostly from the EITC, Schedual M and child tax/ additonal child tax credits and I have to listen to them complain about how the federal government and congress (especaily the Republicans) don't care about the little guy. Ninety percent of their tax refund is our tax money given to them, not any of the federal taxes collected from their pay checks. The democrat congress, (since 2008 when Obama was elected) has tried very hard to stop these tax credits. Not all tax credits benifit the 'rich'.

Oh, and BTW; the death tax is being brought back. This means that anyone with an estate worth one million dollars or more has a death penalty of 55%. That translates into you recieving $.45 for each $1.00 you are given in an inheritance or trust. Many of us on this forum fall into this catagory and do not even know of it. Email me privatly if you have questions or want to know if you need to be concerned. I bet you that you do.


And for those of you who are keeping up with congress, remember that GW Bush was a republican president with a democrat congress. Obama is a democrat president with a democrat congress for the first two years of his term. Gee, wonder why the House is heavy Republican and the Senate is pro democrat...but only by the slimest of margins???? Oh, Yeah, because of free, public elections. If you don't like the way congress is going now, vote, run for office, start petitions, make phone calls and write letters. This is your country.
I have to disagree with you on a couple of points

a. If I remember correctly, and I believe I do, George Bush had a majority in both the house and senate of Republicans for all but the last few years of his term.

b. I don't think many of us have a million dollar estate to worry about.

However, let's don't make this political. Let's don't fight among ourselves. Heck, we have got enough of a war fighting this prison system. Hey, let's all fight together OK. We can do better if we go at this with an attitude of "Yes we can."

I received many messages from organizations like FAMM talking about how happy they were with the progress that was made. The law on Crack was one they said they had tried for many year to get passed. The bill to review the complete prison system for the first time was approved by the House--just not the Senate--although I believe it stated that it made it though a committee group which was for the first time.

With what was accomplished, let's give an extra push this year and try to go further. I don't care if they are Republican or Democratic Senators or Congressman, let's just try and make them wake up.
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  #31  
Old 02-25-2011, 08:10 PM
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I didn't mean to sound mean, angry or bitter. Really I didn't. It is just that we as individules have power in this country. As a collective group, we command attention and respect and can affect change. If enough of us on this forum want this bill to be passed, then lets get off our collective back sides and do it. There are many of your loved ones that would benifit from this bill. Lets make some waves and make changes that would benifit our families, neighborhoods, and our country.
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  #32  
Old 02-25-2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by conager View Post
I didn't mean to sound mean, angry or bitter. Really I didn't. It is just that we as individules have power in this country. As a collective group, we command attention and respect and can affect change. If enough of us on this forum want this bill to be passed, then lets get off our collective back sides and do it. There are many of your loved ones that would benifit from this bill. Lets make some waves and make changes that would benifit our families, neighborhoods, and our country.
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts. Yes, I do agree with you on this statement completely. I do wish more people would become involved and that more would join the various groups that are involved also.

While pushing for the Prison Review issue last year there seemed to be gobs of calls when the first push and request for letters to Congressman and then Senators began because lines were busy and there was a problem getting through. Later in the year when the request was again made, we didn't seem to have as many it seemed. If everyone with a friend or family in prison would join in, gosh our group is bound to be so large. Until we become a part of this group we have no idea what the situation is really like. We are the ones that have to make our leaders see what the situation really is. So, yes, we are in complete agreement on this.
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  #33  
Old 02-25-2011, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by keith74mom View Post

I would venture to ask - are you against the tax credit for felons working for an employer?

I have not heard of this- therefore no opinion- enlighten, please.

The WOTC Tax Credit? You seem to be against every other tax credit.....
What is the WOTC ?
WOTC is the Work Opportunity Tax Credit that is offered to employers who hire ex-felons.

The Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) is a federal income tax credit designed to help people gain on-the-job experience and acquire better employment. The WOTC program offers federal tax credits to employers as an incentive to hire people in several specific target groups. Employers can claim up to 40% of the first $6,000 in qualified first-year wages for a maximum credit of $2,400 per new hire.

You've been enlightened.....
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  #34  
Old 02-26-2011, 07:05 AM
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at the end money will free the inmates... a simple fact.

there are many inmates in the prisons for "fist degree murder" they have never killed anybody: they were just too stupid to help others to cover their actions. I know two of such cases, one in CA and other in Kansas... one was too young and depdent on the group, the other is from a low intelligence, barely able to write: is it not stupid to hold such guys inside for their life ?

nobody ever speaks about such! nobody knows about such situations, as there is no voice for such inmates!

but at the end they all will cost too much money and so at least those who program have a good chance to get out one day..... it might not be tomorrow... but it will happen. politic will blame those of the past... and make themselves look good, but no matter what: a change will come, as there is no way around it....

all I hope for is, they really let out those they worked hard for many years and not such with good lawyers!
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  #35  
Old 02-26-2011, 07:16 AM
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I totally agree with this.
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  #36  
Old 02-26-2011, 07:19 AM
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Myfreedom- I also think discussion is healthy- we all agree that prison reform is needed- .


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Originally Posted by myfreedom2010 View Post
I think this is a very healthy discussion - sometimes people speak their "polictical views" but it is what it is - no one is bashing anyone on this topic????
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  #37  
Old 02-26-2011, 08:47 AM
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Someone posted this link in another forum which I occasionally visit here on prisontalk. I thought others might be interested with the news about state budgets. The letters are already written to send to your state reps and newspapers- you can revise as needed. I have posted this on the Texas forum but we need all states to participate . This is the time to be heard!

http://www.prisonfellowship.org/get-...e-incarcerated


Quote:
Originally Posted by gj07 View Post
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts. Yes, I do agree with you on this statement completely. I do wish more people would become involved and that more would join the various groups that are involved also.

While pushing for the Prison Review issue last year there seemed to be gobs of calls when the first push and request for letters to Congressman and then Senators began because lines were busy and there was a problem getting through. Later in the year when the request was again made, we didn't seem to have as many it seemed. If everyone with a friend or family in prison would join in, gosh our group is bound to be so large. Until we become a part of this group we have no idea what the situation is really like. We are the ones that have to make our leaders see what the situation really is. So, yes, we are in complete agreement on this.
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  #38  
Old 02-26-2011, 12:35 PM
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I hope this bill go through its time we start looking at inmates behavior now. Some inmates been in for 20 or better and now they wouldn't hurt a fly. All people need another chance! If there doing good and is no threat its time they come home. IMO
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  #39  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:27 AM
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Thank you Keith74mom for the link. If many of us do this and get other family members and friends to do this too we will have a better chance to get this through. In an earlier post I got off track and I apologize for that. When I wrote that post I was also thinking about the inmates and what they too lose and the fact that inmates are part of the US citzenship and what happens outside the wall also has direct consequences to those inside. I will follow this link and will get letters ready and others interested in this I know to do the same. I live in a small city and most times I don't hear about these bills. I appreciate it when people post this type of news so I can stay informed with what's going on and continue to get involved.

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  #40  
Old 02-28-2011, 12:10 AM
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The feds can't release state inmates, so I'm guessing this would apply to federal inmates, I will try to see if I can find out more about it online though..
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  #41  
Old 02-28-2011, 12:59 AM
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I do believe that each state should adopt this and allow our loved ones to come back home to us where they belong.
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  #42  
Old 02-28-2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harasubam View Post

Obama Budget Plan Could Save $41 Million By Freeing Well-Behaved Inmates ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Budget problems are forcing states and the federal government to rethink their approach to prisons, says NPR. Adam Gelb of the Pew Center on the States told a U.S. House appropriations panel last week that, "It costs 23 times as much to have somebody behind the walls as it does in the community, and I think that disparity is what's becoming compelling." "The economic situation that we're in is certainly nothing to celebrate," says the Justice Department's James Burch. "But at the same time, it has served as an effective catalyst to get people to look at the facts and look at the data and to be more reasonable about the decisions that we're making." Those decisions are reflected in President Obama's proposed fiscal 2012 budget, which includes a plan to save $41 million by releasing well-behaved inmates. Experts say the key is to evaluate each prisoner and the risk he poses to the community, just like an insurance company would before writing a policy to cover someone's house or car. NPR



__._,_.___
I wonder When they woud start evaluating and How would a prison sign up.
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  #43  
Old 02-28-2011, 03:50 PM
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Yes, and does this apply to federal, not state?

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I wonder When they woud start evaluating and How would a prison sign up.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conager View Post
quote:"This will never happen b/c the Federal Government will not allow it - heck we are under the budget resolution right now with the potential of the Government shutting down next Friday and over 500,000 people without jobs b/c they can't compromise on the budget!" end quote


those potential 500,000 people are government employees, not private sector employees and buisnesses. Walmart is not going to shut down, babies will be born, marriages and aniversearies celebrated etc. In other words, life goes on. Big government will never equal a great society. People that work for the government will have to use thier savings to get them over the gultch just as those of us in the private sector have to use ours in time of need and emergency. Being prepared with savings and other extra necessities is a way of life for many of us.


Quote: "Harry Reid and President Obama say a government shutdown would impact Social Security benefits. Experts disagree."

What happens to Social Security if the government shuts down?
"People don't get their Social Security checks." That was President Obama at a press conference last week. unquote

This is a huge delimia. Many people on social security in any form also need to be prepared for the inevitable political showdown. It is harder to save on social security. Basicly when some one else gives you money they (who ever gave you the money) can also give you limits as to what you can do with that money. Nothing is free, especially from the government. Social security was never meant to fund retirement, only to assist with what we are supposed to put aside or plan for. Personaly I have lost three fortunes in my lifetime....all due to one man (my first husband.) I am 46 and Hick (my hubby) and I are working our tails off to assure ourselfs of a decent retirement, one that may use social security but not be dependant on it. With the problems given to social security, I do fear for my friends who are super dependant on it for everything no matter for what reason.



quote: "If they would repeal the recent tax cuts that benefited the already wealthy then the budget deficit would be much less then it is now." unquote

I prepeare taxes for part of my living. If the government repealed the EITC (earned income tax credit) and the child tax/additional child tax credit ad the Making Work Pay schedual M credit, the federal government would save billions each year. I have clients who know exactly how much money they can earn with a paper trail inorder to get the maximum EITC each year. When they get that amount, they arrange to leave their jobs, go on leave etc. I know this because they tell me this. It is not ilegal, just very frustrating. I print out checks that are $6,000 and more, (the most this year so far has been in excess of $9,000) mostly from the EITC, Schedual M and child tax/ additonal child tax credits and I have to listen to them complain about how the federal government and congress (especaily the Republicans) don't care about the little guy. Ninety percent of their tax refund is our tax money given to them, not any of the federal taxes collected from their pay checks. The democrat congress, (since 2008 when Obama was elected) has tried very hard to stop these tax credits. Not all tax credits benifit the 'rich'.

Oh, and BTW; the death tax is being brought back. This means that anyone with an estate worth one million dollars or more has a death penalty of 55%. That translates into you recieving $.45 for each $1.00 you are given in an inheritance or trust. Many of us on this forum fall into this catagory and do not even know of it. Email me privatly if you have questions or want to know if you need to be concerned. I bet you that you do.


And for those of you who are keeping up with congress, remember that GW Bush was a republican president with a democrat congress. Obama is a democrat president with a democrat congress for the first two years of his term. Gee, wonder why the House is heavy Republican and the Senate is pro democrat...but only by the slimest of margins???? Oh, Yeah, because of free, public elections. If you don't like the way congress is going now, vote, run for office, start petitions, make phone calls and write letters. This is your country.
All this country has to do is stop paying all the money to congressman, senators, and presidents after they leave office, If they took all that money and put it in Social Security there would'nt be a problem.
Let these same people collect a social security check just like everyone else and not both.
When I leave a job, my paycheck does'nt follow me.
And stop all these self pay raises.
Let every state run on their own money and stop all these goverment handouts.
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  #45  
Old 03-03-2011, 03:08 PM
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Well they avoided a shutdown by extending 2 weeks but that just means that we all could face this again. The Government needs to get busy and start cutting back on tax credits to oil companies and other big companies who end up paying no taxes whatsoever. Seems to me that the least the big companies could do is to pay their equal share. When I see someone like Gates stating his secretary pays more in taxes then he does and he thinks that is unfair I wonder who devised these tax levels and these tax credits. Something is drastically wrong here. What they need in the House and Senate are people who actually know how to budget money and what is fair. But that will never happen because the average everyday person could never raise enough money to run and they sure as hell wouldn't get help from campaign donations from the "big Companies". Lord I'd just love to see a person with a pair of levis and tee shirt sitting there. At least this person would have an idea what actually goes on with the average citizens and would listen. At least, until h/she was bought off and fell to Greed. I guess I'm just not very optimistic that things will ever change.
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:40 PM
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We the people need to strip the dang congress and sentate of all their benefits and royalty's. They should be on the same plan we are all on PERIOD. What is with US the people!! This *hit has to stop. We could save a ton of $$$$. We are the FOOLS! These people are sent to Washington to work for us, not the other way around.

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The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple!
The people demanded it.
That was in 1971...before computers, before e-mail, before cell phones, etc.

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.

I'm asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.

In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

Congressional Reform Act of 2011

1. Term Limits.

12 years only, one of the possible options below..

A. Two Six-year Senate terms
B. Six Two-year House terms
C. One Six-year Senate term and three Two-Year House terms

2. No Tenure / No Pension.

A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

3. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.

4. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

5. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

6. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

7. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

8. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/11.

The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves.


Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.


If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.
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Cobb/Cherokee County GA

Last edited by Lordbew/us; 03-03-2011 at 05:50 PM..
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:08 AM
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Now, let's just see how the party of no will vote for this and allow it to remain in the proposed budget. Hopefully it will go through as part of the budget but I'm realistic. The GOP would rather give tax cuts to the rich before doing anything that would assist the not-so-rich.
I see a lot of anti-GOP posts on here very often, and I've never said anything before, but I'm a conservative, and most of my family is, and we think the prison/corrections system is just as screwed up as everyone else does.

Actually here in FL our GOP Governor is proposing to reduce the corrections budget by releasing non-violent/well behaving inmates as well.

I think that both sides have been doing nothing but spinning their wheels for decades and spending us into debt. I think it's sad that we spend more money every year to house inmates than we do teaching school children how to become productive citizens.

We have some of the strictest, most archaic laws, and some of the longest prison terms. And don't forget that a very liberal state (CA) is the one with the most prison overcrowding because of their 3 strikes and you're in for life law.

So I promise you that it's not just the GOP that wants people in prison and away from their families; it's just that prisoners are the last thing our government is thinking about with everything else that's going on.
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  #48  
Old 03-04-2011, 04:21 AM
whitecollarwife whitecollarwife is offline
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Am I the only conservitve republican on this forum??? Okay, since this thread is about early release for certain inmates, and not a political discussion, lets stick to the facts of potientaly getting some of our loved ones home early and what we can do to make that a reality.

The article cited is from NPR, and not the whole article. Below is the only other reference from google for this:
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/15/133760...ach-to-prisons.

Oh, and just an aside here; my daughter is very well behaved in jail, however she is also on regular medications that she can not access out of jail. What if she is alowed out of jail because she is good....do you want to take the chance that she might kill again? I don't. My situation may be much more heinous than any of yours, but it is something to think about.
No you're not the only conservative...I'm one as well I get annoyed sometimes because people can make this political, and it's really not about that because we all want the same thing...or family members home earlier or treated better.

I will pray for you and your daughter, I can't even imagine the pain you must go through. My husband is in Fed for a white collar crime. He'll be home in less than 18 months, which isn't a long time but I still think the justice system is a mess, and somebody needs to step in and do something because there are people in prison that really don't belong there or would maybe be better served doing an alternative sentence.

Keep your chin up...you're not alone here!
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  #49  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:19 AM
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Lordbew/us Lordbew/us is offline
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Hey Whitecollarwife....I'm totally with yah!
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:57 AM
whitecollarwife whitecollarwife is offline
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Hey Whitecollarwife....I'm totally with yah!
Thanks...like I said in a previous post I am so tired of people making this political. If some of them would actually open their eyes and their minds and see what's going on in this country maybe they wouldn't automatically assume that all conservatives/republicans were old, stuffy, rich people that were out to "get them".

And a lot of what change.org and other liberal organizations are pushing for is to reduce the mandatory minimums on drug related offenses so it wouldn't really even help everyone. Not that what they're doing is a bad thing, but why not try to reduce the mandatory minimums for everyone?

A lot of judges really don't want to send people to prison, but unfortunately on the federal level they are forced to because of the sentencing guidelines. If my husband's judge had been able to do a downward departure of 1 point he would have only done probation and maybe 6 months on an ankle monitor, of course he has to pay restitution as well...which he had a great job on the outside and could've began paying restitution immediately but because of sentencing guidelines he has to serve 18 months, and now he's not going to have that great job to go back to, and how in the heck do they expect us to then pay restitution when he's now a convicted felon, and is going to have a heck of a time finding a job that even pays enough for survival let alone restitution.

Sorry, I'm ranting!!! But thank you for being somebody that does see the forest for the trees! We are all here for a reason, and instead of having political debates we should be focusing on how to help our loved ones that are stuck in the system.
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