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Elsa's Inmate Card Projects This forum is dedicated to the memory of one of our most loyal members; Elsa Punzi. Send Birthday & Holiday cards to inmates!

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Old 01-30-2004, 01:58 PM
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Default Difficult Decisions and the Card Project

Dear PTO Members & those involved in the PTO Card Project,

Please forgive me for taking this long to make an announcement regarding the PTO Card Project. The launch of PTO v2 has monopolized most of my free time so I have not been able to focus as much as I would like on a number of issues relating to the Card Project and Pen-Pal forums.

As always, I want to take a minute to thank ALL OF YOU that have worked so hard to bring joy to prisoners; many of whom would not have much, if any, contact outside if it were not for your kindness. I was late submitting my Holiday lists of friends who are still in, yet most of them received at least 10-15 cards each and were shocked! (They didn't know what happened until they got tipped off by some of you! LOL!) What you all are doing is something especially wonderful IMO.

The Administration of PTO knows how much time and effort you have put into this project and despite a few issues, we consider the PTO card project something that we all can be very proud of and something that fulfills one of the primary "missions" of PTO-- to offer support to prisoners & family members in need. I especially want to thank Barbara (BSS) for her tireless effort to make it what it is and patience with me for not being there to assist in implementing many new ideas she has contacted me about.

Before I get into a number of new things relating to the Card Project, I want to address something disturbing, if not down right shameful that occurred relating to the Card project – something that created a great deal of fear, paranoia, pain and distrust amongst people involved in the card project. This is a major factor in what led us to temporarily suspend the card project AND the pen pal forums.


What we have decided to share with you is not limited to this single event, but it is something that we have now addressed, and anything relating to inappropriate contact of other members in the future will be handled similarly. We are VERY serious about these types of acts – overt or subtle – and will use everything at our disposal to prevent and deter them. Hopefully the following story will make others with dishonest and manipulative intentions think twice prior to abusing these types of program and our members in general.


In December of this last year (2003), it became apparent to most all of us that someone had inappropriately contacted Kris_NC’s boyfriend, likely through the holiday card project/list, and possibly a few others. Understandably she was upset, as were other members, not to mention PTO volunteers and staff who had worked so hard to make this program a success. Scandalous activity such as this is absolutely not allowed, as it is disrespectful and disgusting to all of us.


Kris_Nc stated that whoever wrote Terrance told him that she could help him more if he did not have a girlfriend and that she was from PTO. We contacted Kris_NC and asked her to get a hold of the correspondence for us so we could try and track down whoever sent it.

In the mean time, Kris_NC started the following thread, which I recommend everyone read closely after you finish reading this.

http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40205


While this thread was open, many of you posted your concerns and your fears of this happening to you and your loved one. The paranoia spread so far that we were forced to shut down the card-projects and the pen-pal forum until we could analyze and look into implementing a new systems that would limit such abuse in order to protect our members— as protecting our members is one of our TOP priorities.


We know that those of you with an incarcerated loved one have more than enough to cope with and that PTO is a "safe-haven" for its members. Our goal is to KEEP PTO a safe place for all of our members first, before anything else. I realize shutting down these projects and forums upset many of you, but it was something that we had to do while determining how to best address these problems.

While the thread started by Kris_NC (listed above) was running and becoming “hotter”, we were contacted by another member who was close to Kris_NC with first hand information relating to the incident with Kris_NC’s loved one. This information clearly outlined that what had taken place was actually a “set up” by Kris_NC using LovingBilly4Ever to find out if Terrance would be faithful if approached in a provocative manner. (Information that has since been substantiated by another member who was aware of their plan and its results) Unfortunately, the results that they received from this “set up” confirmed that Terrance was not as “faithful” as Kris_NC had hoped.


After finding out about this the question we asked ourselves was, “Why blame it on someone from PTO and the Card Project??” One of the people we spoke to speculated that the reasoning behind this was that “going public that she had LovingBilly4Ever set up Terrance would not be looked upon favorably by many members and she was looking for support over him being unfaithful from others at PTO.”

Well, that may be nice for Kris_NC and LovingBilly4ever but it had a very negative impact on the card project and raised the specter that many PTO members were at work writing other people’s loved ones. We realize that the inappropriate contact is not limited to this incident, but what has happened here is a kick in the gut for many of us considering the deceit and game playing that has taken place and that has hurt everyone else because of it.

After we got the tip about the set up, we continued to press Kris_NC for the correspondence that was sent to Terrance, along with any other information, but were met with excuses or no-replies. Knowing what we now know, it might have been prudent to contact Terrance directly in regards to this matter, but it is not our intent to make things worse for him or even Kris_NC for that matter. We ended up with enough direct information to substantiate who the major players were in this, not to mention the members that KNEW what was taking place yet never spoke up about it.

We have wanted to act on this information for some time, but to do so would have, in one person’s words, “put her in jeopardy as they knew her phone number, address, and had made aggressive comments about talking to anyone about it, yet she could not let the actions of a few members destroy the good of the card project.” What has now changed is her husband is about to be home and she plans to leave all this behind – giving us approval to act.


As of late, the PTO Administration team has had to make some difficult decisions relating to terminating member’s accounts. We definitely do not enjoy banning any member, much less one that has been at PTO for quite a while. Further, we do not take this type of action lightly nor is it usual for us to detail why someone’s membership was terminated, but in this case we felt some explanation was warranted as it has had a detrimental impact on one of our major projects here at PTO and a large number of our members.


We understand also that many of you will be hurt and dismayed by the actions of a few of these (now banned) members, as you come to understand the trail of deceit that was laid for their own needs/desires, and in their attempt to seek sympathy and attention. Please understand that although it often a difficult decision to terminate and then block someone from PTO, the Administration will not allow for one person, or a group of individuals to abuse our membership and/or Projects for their own needs or to pursue their own "agendas".

On a final note relating to this issue, not every account that has recently been closed/banned/blocked was related to the incidents surrounding the card project. In the other cases, like those before, we will not comment, as it is our intention to keep their ‘business’ private. However, let this be NOTICE to anyone who blatantly abuses the Prison Talk Online community that there is always a possibility that if you tarnish what so many of us have worked very hard to accomplish, we may spell out the facts of what really happened when they become apparent.


-----------------------------------------

New Procedures for the Card Project

-----------------------------------------


While we do not have everything completed, the Card Project will go on, headed up by BSS. We have decided to rescind not allowing anyone to use their own return addresses. We do understand that seeing the pleasure that you give to others is only fitting and warms us all. You all deserve this at the very least!

To those who were upset with me for taking the stance I did on this; please understand it was done because I want to protect the sanctity of everyone’s relationship here. Much of this is a learning experience and we want what is best for everyone. I don’t like having to play the “bad guy” and shut down or limit programs like this but it is my duty to protect PTO members. It isn’t always easy! I thought dealing with some of the Prison Support hate groups out there was hard. Well, it isn’t nearly as stressful and upsetting is dealing with problems from within.. You almost expect it from those people. It is like a slap in the face from those who are supposed to be part of our family.

We will be looking into building a custom database program/script designed and put online that will randomly, but evenly, distribute contact information for people enrolled in the card projects to authorized members. Members that are participating in the card projects will be reviewed prior to being given any access or information. I am not sure what the prerequisite will be to gain access to this information but membership age and activity levels, relationship to prisoner support, and some others factors will likely be relevant to being in this program.

It’s my hope to get this database in place in the next few months. Until that time, Barbara will continue to manually send out this information and review those who are taking part in the Card Program.

If you have any questions, please direct them to BSS, or myself if necessary.

Thanks,
Fed-X
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:28 PM
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Thank you for taking the time to go into such detail and all about everything. I was in the dark for so long, and still sort of am, but I feel alot better now in regards to the card program and all. Thank you!
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Please understand that although it often a difficult decision to terminate and then block someone from PTO, the Administration will not allow for one person, or a group of individuals to abuse our membership and/or Projects for their own needs or to pursue their own "agendas".
Thank You!
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Old 01-30-2004, 04:47 PM
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So where does that leave the pen pal forum?
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:05 PM
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I think it's really shady that there are people out there who are using PTO as a loaded gun, no pun intended!?

Well Fed-X, again, you have handled this situation with all the wisdom and experience that only a mastermind could. Thank you for being fair and honest to all of us!
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sewergrrl
So where does that leave the pen pal forum?
It leaves the Pen-Pal Forums on hold for a bit longer while we finish up things relating to the Card Project. There are a lot of birthdays coming up and we want this working well then we will address the Pen-Pal forums. Currently they are "offline" but no posts or threads are lost. With a flip of the switch they can be brought back, but we want to make sure everything is in order first.
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpea
I think it's really shady that there are people out there who are using PTO as a loaded gun, no pun intended!?

Well Fed-X, again, you have handled this situation with all the wisdom and experience that only a mastermind could. Thank you for being fair and honest to all of us!
Thanks for your comments Sweetpea, but I did not do this alone.. There has been a lot of behind the scene work by other admins and staff, not to mention the people that cared enough to help redeem part of this program. It is one of these people that I want to thank the most. If it wasn't for them we might have never found out, or it would have been much further in the future after other incidents that created "drama" and pain here took place. I'm just often the one to make the post.
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:49 PM
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I commend PTO admin, staff and those that came forward to put this issue to rest. I did not take part in the card project nor did I place my loved one on the list, however after the kris_NC thread got underway it caused several awkward long discussions between myself and my man which in retrospect were completely unnecessary. I would bet many other couples had these same discussions.

It's a shame that for some, insecurity and the need for attention is greater than their loyalty to a group of people who have offered them support and friendship at every turn. I support the difficult decisions made for the benefit of the larger membership of PTO. Thank you.

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Old 01-30-2004, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fed-X
There has been a lot of behind the scene work by other admins and staff, not to mention the people that cared enough to help redeem part of this program. It is one of these people that I want to thank the most. If it wasn't for them we might have never found out, or it would have been much further in the future after other incidents that created "drama" and pain here took place. I'm just often the one to make the post.
You and your team work so hard, so, that's what I meant to say
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Old 01-30-2004, 06:55 PM
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I'm glad you got it all strightend out and that the card program will be back in place.Atleast now some of the wife's and g/f's will be able to put their loved one's on the card list and not have to worry about someone trying to steal their man.Its hard to believe someone would go to such lengths for attention.I still don't understand all of it and I don't really need to,but one thing I couldn't understand is why the cards were sent to someones b/f and why him.Anyway thank you David and whoever came forward for the good of PTO and it's members. I hope this will put alot of members minds at ease.
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Old 01-30-2004, 07:20 PM
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I have had a lot of worries about this entire thing and this does help put my mind at ease. A lot of things now make more sense to me on a personal level.
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Old 01-30-2004, 07:37 PM
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I am glad everything is fixed. I am sure many people here will now reconsider the card project for their loved ones. Although I wont be putting my loved ones name there I still commend you all (administrators,and volunteers alike) for creating and participating in such a selfless project.

Well i am glad to see that Fed-X posted about this horrible situation. Although it is sad to see Kris and Melissa go. I thought they were great but what they did was taken too far. I just wish they had thught it through more thoroughly. I had been wondering what happened to some of the members, four come to mind that I haven't seen posts from, Kris and Mel being two of those ppl.

Well I hope that the people who believed in the card project before will continue to believe in it now.
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Old 01-30-2004, 08:31 PM
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Thank you David and your dedicated and selfless staff! You all deserve GREAT BIG (((((HUGS)))))!!

Becki
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Old 01-30-2004, 08:48 PM
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Yes I'm glad you guys and gals got this situation straightened out. I really wondered about what was going on, and it's crazy. That's sad that people do things like that abusing the only support system some of us have. But I'm glad the truth is out. And it's sad that people have to go to that extent just to see if their loved one is trustworthy. I feel like if you have to worry or think that they are really being unfaithful where you even think you have to do something like that, then you already 9 times out of ten have your answer. They are unfaithful. So don't go causing every body else more worry and pain. Most of us on here are too old for things like that any how.
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Old 01-31-2004, 06:29 AM
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I just read this and I'm shocked!!! Thank you for the explanation. How could they have started this lie and then stood back and watched all the trouble it caused and still do nothing???? Unbelievable what some will do. I am so glad you reinstated this worthwhile program and these folks didn't get the chance to ruin it ... they sure tried, how disgusting!!! Right on goes to you for your actions in this matter.
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Old 01-31-2004, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
We understand also that many of you will be hurt and dismayed by the actions of a few of these (now banned) members, as you come to understand the trail of deceit that was laid for their own needs/desires, and in their attempt to seek sympathy and attention.
WOW!! At this time I'm a bit speechless! Hurt and dismayed does not even touch the tip of what I'm feeling!

THANK YOU David and the rest of you who have uncovered this GAME!!

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Old 01-31-2004, 06:54 AM
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amazing. bizarre. and what a thing to do to a guy whose life is on the line- a fake offer of help. that's sad.
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:37 AM
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Thanks goes out to PTO and the way you handle his mess and I mean mess. To say I piss is a understatement. All of us offer support and call out for the person to come out of hiding and there was no one. I even offer my help if she need it. Even though this was a big scam I still will offer other my support one Big Old Spoil Apple Can not ruin the bunch. Thank God a member came out and told the truth. When I read that post I got heated well Im glad that it over now. We can get back into the business of helping each other not tearing each other down.
Thanks again to PTO!
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Old 01-31-2004, 08:30 AM
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WOW..when we practice to decieve...i am glad that this is in the open...the air is again clean and fresh here
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Old 01-31-2004, 09:05 AM
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I am appalled!! I was so hurt for Kris and felt her pain, and for what?? Once I replied to her post i never went back to follow through, and when i hear that it was all a scam by her and Loving Billy I am like WTF is going on here?? It really upsets me that (some)people come to Pto to play games and see how far it can go. That is awful. But I am glad that the Pto Admin took care of that.
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Old 01-31-2004, 09:06 AM
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I'm new here and I probably shouldn't but into things that I know nothing about, but I would like to ask something. I understand now that you have banned these members, but this story sounds one sided. I mean, I'm a mother of three and I know when I hear a one sided story from one of my sons and then hear a completely different story from another one. Why, then, do you not make it fair for both parties (or all three since this issue resolved around several) to make their statement and THEN you debate over what the truth is. I know I sound like a mother, but that's because I am. I think that my fellow members of Prison Talk Online (PTO as you like to call it), as I have been reading several posts about all this, and I'm sure they would like to hear both sides of it. It's much like wanting to hear both sides of the presidental campaign. I just feel that this would be at PTOs best interest with helping their members to understand what is going on.

Am I out of line in asking this?

Last edited by Lysbeth; 01-31-2004 at 11:55 AM.. Reason: (Removed quote of Fed-X's complete original post)
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Old 01-31-2004, 09:34 AM
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Hellsangel baby, this really isnt a "debate" site.
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Old 01-31-2004, 09:47 AM
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I didn't say it was a debate side, I'm just saying that, from a mother's point of view, it sounds as though we are only getting half of the story and that's not right. Nor is it fair to us as members.
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Old 01-31-2004, 10:03 AM
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Let me elaborate, with a story of my own.

Not to long ago my oldest son (age 12) said that his younger brother (age 9) took something that belonged to him so he hit him. My oldest son did more than hit him, he degrated him and treated him like a piece of trash as well. That is not something I deal with in my home. When I went to my 9 year old and asked him what happened he told me that my oldest son gave him this object (what it is is unimportant) and then, when noticing that my 9 year old enjoyed it more than what my oldest thought could be done with it, he demanded it back. Now, when I brought them both together and asked them to talk about it then it came out that my oldest son only let my younger son borrow this object and he wanted it back and my younger son refused. Now, the object was taken away from both of them and is now in my possession until they can get along better. They are also both grounded.

As far as what I am talking about on here, it sounds to me that Kris_NC and Lovinbilly4ever had a reason for doing what they did. Though I do not pretend to know why it is really none of our business, or PTOs. We do not know their side of the story on why they did it and I am just asking to know so that we can come to our own conclusions about the truth. I feel that this would inform people more than PTO telling us what they did because we do not know the intention of Fed-X or any of the other administrative staff. Did they have something against either of these two? Did they do something before and wanted to straighten it out? Was it right of them to post this on here in the first place? Much like watching the Green Mile and phrase comes to me, "What's done on the mile, stays on the mile." Well, if I have not taken this the wrong way, then these girls were banned before Fed-X put up this post and I feel that it is not right, slander even, to tell the rest of the members what they did wrong when they cannot defend themselves.

I was reading the other Difficult decidions and banning post and all of you want this to have a democratic feel to it, and part of democracy is that these people get to say something in their defense.

I am not trying to be rude, I am not trying to be malicious, I am merely stating that I would like to know all sides of the story from those involved.
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Old 01-31-2004, 10:10 AM
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Thanks David!! I know ya'll are very busy getting PTO put back together in the new version!
What happened on the card project is exactly why Tony didn't want on the list. I'm so glad things are working out!! I LOVE sending cards to the guys and I never replied to any thing I got from them...to me the point was a card to pick them up and I did that.
THanks so much for you and your team handling things the way you did!!
Ya'll ROCK and Love you all
Renee
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