What does "put to death by the state" REALLY mean?

[Menally-Ill]

Forgive me if this seems to be a trifle politically incorrect to ask, BUT...

As the whole world seems to know, we DO NOT have the death penalty in Canada. Yet I personally know of deaths that occur in the prison system here, that are CAUSED by guards, or policies of denied medical care etc.

Do these deaths count? Sure, they don't fit the usual death penalty criteria, but they sure do count to the other inmates who are terrified into perpetually wondering "Is it my turn next?" And they sure do count to the inmates' families.

Two examples:

ROBERT "TEX" GENTLES. Had his radio up loud during a lockdown, in an attempt to drown out the guys' yelling etc. A guard tells him to turn it off. Tex refused. SIX guards decide to do a cell extraction with batons, mace etc. Tex was an asthmatic. They maced him in the face, pinned him face down on his mattress, with one guard sitting on his head, while the others beat the daylights out of him.

Repercussions? A lengthy inquest that resulted in numerous "recommendations", but no guards fired!

TY CONN. Typical childhood of multiple adoptions, abuse, training schools, juvenile facilities. He ends up in Kingston Pen, for bank robberies. (Never a shot fired...) Problem is that he has each charge decided in a different courtroom and different town. When they finally "toted up" his sentences, he was in for 47 years! After doing 18 years, he felt he'd "done enough time, since murderers are out in 25 years". So he escaped Kingston Pen, and fled to Toronto. The Pen sent down the SWAT teams, and SERC units. Ty is on the phone with a television reporter from CBC. BOOM! Shotgun blast in the centre of his chest. Who shot him? It's still unclear, but Correctional Services claim he committed suicide.

Hmmm...

At least the U.S. is up front about who they decide to kill, and when. The Canadian system is much "sneakier" in my humble opinion.

I could post many other such stories, if you're interested.

Menolly

[KConnor56]

Menolly,
Even down here more people die in prison from other causes than being executed. Most die from old age & whats called medical neglect. Then deaths from inmates & guards. I think executions are pretty far down the line.

[Menally-Ill]

Oh Ken;

Don't even get me going about the medical neglect! I could post a thousand stories, and probably get booted off the site, for "hogging all the space!"

For example, in 1988, I participated in a study on the health of the P4W, in Kingston. (That's Prison For Women; shut down since last year.)

Over 80% had AIDS!!!!
And 93% had Hepatitis C!!!!

Now, somebody try to convince me that isn't a death penalty, especially since most of the cases were contracted AFTER entering the prison, largely because cleanup of all blood spills (from slashings, fights, suicide attempts etc.) were assigned to the other inmates. And you can be sure there weren't rubber gloves etc.

Menolly

[Menally-Ill]

So Ken;

Where do all those people's names go?

I think a website listing the THOUSANDS of names, with a 10 word or less description of how they died, would SHOCK the average tax payer, who's tax dollars is paying for the abuse!

Does that make every taxpayer an accomplice of sorts?

Not really, because these names, these deaths sink into secrecy and oblivion behind the walls.

The average taxpayer only hears about the state putting death row inmates to death. And the average taxpayer can convince themselves that they had all their appeals etc.

Ty Conn and Tex Gentles had no trial, much less any appeal process.

So my question is WHY don't these names get memorialized also?

Menolly

[Caroline]

No prisoner should be denied medical attention! Thats torture, I certaintly dont agree with that. Even those on deathrow should have medical attention, we have the lethal injection for a reason, so we shouldnt torture inmates, no matter how serious the crime.

[Menally-Ill]

Medical care for inmates became my pet peeve a few years ago when the guys at Kingston Pen went on a hunger strike on behalf of FOUR diabetics who were only allowed to have insulin shots from Monday to Friday!

On weekends, the other inmates were supposed to keep an eye on the four to watch for diabetic comas. As if they could do a darned thing for them if it came down to that.

I work in the medical system, and I know that a 5 day a week insulin regime leads to kidney failure, blindness etc. I was livid! And this hunger strike has focused all my "prison reform" energies ever since, on the medical abuses that go on.

I firmly believe that medical care should be handled by outside agencies, or the ministry of health.

Correctional Services Canada knows about incarceration. They know nothing about health care, so why is it under their jurisdiction, in the first place?

But then again, I'm an idealist. So what the heck do I know, huh?

Menolly

[KConnor56]

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5547
This is an article regarding womens cancers being ignored in prison.


Here is an article on HIV patient problems too


HIV+ Prisoners at Corcoran Prison Go on Medication Strike Today
Call or fax your support for their struggle today!

Prisoners with HIV in the Chronic Infectious Disease Unit (CID) at the
California State Prison * Corcoran are on medication strike today, May 13,
to demand adequate medical care and an end to punishment conditions for HIV
prisoners there.

Two weeks ago, Corcoran¹s only HIV medical specialist was fired. A new
general physician (not an HIV specialist), Dr. Friedman, has taken all HIV+
prisoners in the CID unit off their pain medication (including methadone).
Many of these prisoners have painful conditions like peripheral neuropathy.
This act amounts to torture for prisoners with HIV.

There is a general feeling in the CID/HIV unit that HIV+ prisoners are being
singled out for the worst abuse and punishment conditions at Corcoran. This
is the first time that HIV+ prisoners have gone on strike collectively since
the early 1990s at the California Medical Facility at Vacaville.


I have more but you get the ideas

[Caroline]

*tuts* although I come across as quite in favour of heafty punishments (such as LWOP for murders and Very LONG setences for rapists) I do not believe in ANYONE being denied medical treatment, its cruel. They should all be fed, and have medical attention, and not abused by gurads. Its really shocking what humans can do to other humans. Its an unfortunate thing that affects many people on the inside and out, but if the govenment is allowing it, it makes it all the much worse.

[B-Ray]

>>>Its really shocking what humans can do to other humans<<<

It is a dilemma why, some are born, it seems, with an evil, self centered outlook on life. If left unchecked early, they are bounded for trouble at a young age.

One can pick these children out easily as you watch them interact with there peers. It seems to be a natural state for them too operate in.

Even if brought under control when young, where they operate respectfully in Society as adults, they "might" search out jobs, where they can revert back to what was a natural mode of operation.

Just think of a guard, as the big bad bully, in total control of his/her play yard, when there on shift.

They didn't get away with it when young. Now, there getting paid for that attitude. They might be real cool in the neighborhood, until they go on shift, (2 faced), and even cop-out as "the job requires it"?

[vnvdvc]

Good point, Bray. One questions how far back prisoner support could really go? To the childhood? Weren't we all born with the same purity of the soul? How many lives could have been spared such anguish if someone or everyone had intervened with support for these people when they were much younger? People support! People support! People support! Such a huge task...guess I'm just going off on a tangent, here. Venting to the extreme!

[Menally-Ill]

Ken:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Spread the word, please!

Another woman at Concoran died of AIDS related kidney failure about 3 weeks back! No one seems to have heard about it.

The executed ones are in every newspaper, along with much brouhaha to stir up John Q. Public's wrath and vengefulness.

But the ones who die inside from medical neglect... What do they call this? Thinning out the herds?

Study after study has proven that they get AIDS and Hep C IN PRISON!

I know you and I are new here, but such info needs to be made public. I hope people here on this site will not get upset with us, if we take a bit of an advocacy stance here, and post links to such stories.

Menolly

[Menally-Ill]

Oh and Ken;

I once picked up a woman from Canada's infamous P4W (Prison For Women) when she was let out on Parole. She and I went straight to a hospital emergency room, where they admitted her and gave her a complete hysterectomy 8 hours later.

Roxy couldn't even get an aspirin in prison. She was just 26 years old when this happened.

I can't imagine such a thing as having their "privates" entirely removed, ever happening to a male prisoner.

But, I can equally tell you horror stories from the male point of view!

Menolly

[Menally-Ill]

Care and Bray;

As for abusive guards...

Last week a guard in Tulsa was charged with several counts of raping the female inmates...

Turns out he told a little fib on his job application, and forgot to mention he did 16 years in Alabama for rape and attempted murder...

It must have slipped his mind.

Having said that though, I also have to say that I have over the years run into the most humane guards, who have bent over backwards to help me help an inmate. Some of them had to do so very quietly, because they were putting their jobs on the line.

So I am always careful to lump all guards in one group. Just as I do with any group of people.

Care; I'm not so sure "the government allows it", so much as it is allowed to happen because of silence and taxpayer apathy.

That's kind of why I have such a big mouth. I've been called an anarchist, a gadfly, a bleeding heart liberal who's too soft on crime, and lots of other things.

But I've never been called "silent".

So lets get out there, and tell the government we don't like our tax dollars to be used in such atrocious ways.

For years now, I have included with my income tax, a letter to the Canadian government saying "Here are my taxes. Please don't use my money for..." and I list my "causes". They've never responded to me of course, but imagine if governments suddenly received a couple million such leters each April.

Ya think they'd notice...

[Menally-Ill]

Oh and Bray, and VNV;

All children are born incredibly self-centred. Ask any Mom whose newborn is screaming at 3 a.m. "Feed me, and clean my poopy diaper!"

One must wonder if we are born with a "soul" (good or evil, as it may be) or do we as a society (starting with Mom and Dad at 3 a.m.) "create" each person's soul, then praise or blame how that soul (personality, morality etc.) behaves as an adult.

I am as much perplexed by what makes a guard viscious, as I am by what makes an offender viscious.

VNV, these aren't "tangents". To me, they are central issues that add vectors and variables to the "crime" equation.

The Big Picture always has many parts...

So VNV, what do you think? Is "the soul" a remnant of religious ideas from the middle ages? Or is "soul" what we identify today with such medico-scientific terms as "personality, self-esteem, aptitude, propensity" etc.

Menolly

[vnvdvc]

I'm sure it is up to each person to decide what "soul" is or even if they should believe in one. Believable is the possibility to mold others as well as one's self with your behavior. Even though that "molding" is just a reaction to said behavior. No matter, the vast problem we face as a whole is to move beyond and constantly improve.
Where to begin?
Thank you , Menolly, for supporting my "tangent" as anything but a fit of passion. Normally I keep myself in check about things I feel so strongly about and am so helpless against. I don't even have a voice anywhere else. Just like so many others. I would never know where to begin taking action. The prison systems are only one place that need reform. It is overwhelming. The more I read here the more I realize how deep these problems run. Something as basic as medical care? Getting a letter? A visit? All of it is just out of hand. There I went again! I better quit before this whole thread is off course! LOL