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Minnesota DOC - What You Need to Know Information relating to the Minnesota Department of Corrections. Q&A for those new to the system should be posted here.

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  #1  
Old 04-15-2006, 08:48 AM
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Default SO treatment programs in MN

i've 'heard', that the treatment programs for SO's done inside, are Not recognized outside. is this true??

therefore, does Moose Lake do SO treatment programs? considering that it's primarily an SO facility with a split of 60+ - 30+ percent with the 30+ percent being non SO-inmates.
i believe that Lino Lakes does an SO treatment program.

also, in doing the SO treatment programs while inside, why would they have to do SO treatment programs when released to parole? perhaps that's the basis for folks inside thinking that the inside program is not recognized....

the above questions are to discover solid information, rather than 'inside gossip', hence being repeated to me. i'd appreciate some facts.

thanks.......

granni

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Old 04-15-2006, 09:01 AM
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Granni:

I can only hepl with some of this, I remeber a memeber on here telling me some time ago that Moose LAke does have so treatment as does Lino Lakes. I'm not really sure what the differences are in treatment programs at the two facilities. As I understand it, Moose Lake also houses some who have been involuntarily committed as does St. PEter.

I also learned that its not that the outside does not recognize inside treatment, but that treatment is required on the outside in addition to what was received on the inside, so its not as if the outside treatment programs don't recognize that the offender underwent treatment on the inside, I think the idea is that now that they are out in the community, the focus of treatment is a little different because clearly recidivism is a much bigger issue once they are released. (though of course we know its negligible compared to other offenders, 4-5% versus 67%).

There is a sex offender treatment professional who has worked for the DOC and now treats released offenders. I know he is VERY knowledgeable about how the whole thing works. If you PM me I can give you his name and phone #. He is a very nice man, very helpful and could probably answer your questions alot better than I.
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Old 04-15-2006, 11:15 AM
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Maybe i can shed a little light on this.

Moose Lake actually has two treatment facilities for SO's.

The first being the PP Unit that is a secured facility located outside of the grounds of the correctional facility. (Right Next Door) This is for people who have been committed to the state because of their sex crimes.

Inside the facility they have one Unit (Unit 8) that is the sex offender treatement unit. It holds only about 100 beds give or take. Can't remember specific numbers. This treatment unit is LONG TERM and was initally put in place for the High Risk of Reoffending and Predatory Offenders or so that is what the state called them.

Also from what i have heard is that the sex offender treatment in Lino Lakes is state certified. But i do belive that they have a aftercare type program that they have to complete and some judges do not let the offender only do the state treatement but also make them enroll in a outside sex offender treatment program....

Sadly it is only going to get worse for people charged with sex offenses in Minnesota. With the Alphonso Rodriguez trial creating so many waves, people are drowning the state reps to make tougher laws and get more tough on sex crimes and offenses.....

I guess i do have to disagree with your percentage of the Moose Lake population. A good friend of mine whom i still talk to on the phone said that while there are quite a few sex offenders in Moose Lake, It is not what people make it out to be. With the prison having 8 Living Units they only have one sex offender treatement Unit. He said the more likely percentage of the population would be about 40 percent sex offenders. He did say at one point they did have a large amount but since lino has been expanding that most of the sex offenders have been going there. Lino has a population of about 80% sex offenders and another 10% being inital Parole Violators. (who then get shipped up to Rush City)

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Old 04-15-2006, 02:23 PM
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thank you.... suze and mr maltisanti

oy.... whatta stickler for exactness. i was remembering the numbers read a year or so ago. and your comment sent me back to that site.
as of today..... it's close to a 50/50 split. LOL!!! no, i'm not gonna do the solid math.

but, ya can go here to the moose lake mndoc and see for yourself. and as you'll notice they even break it down to governing offense vrs cumulative offenses (multiple charges).
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Old 04-15-2006, 03:12 PM
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Forgive me for just shooting my mouth off here: but I have had some experience with Moose Lake, though not in its present form. A friend was there while it was still operating as a State Psychiatric Hospital and I visited her so many times that one at least one occasion I was mistaken for a patient and had one heck of a time getting out of there. This was while the prison was being built and I remember seeing workmen uncoil razor wire along the road and around the new "compound". Couldn't think of any reason for it. Not that I expected anything to make sense in the place....while visiting my friend I took a good look at the barred windows and asked a staff person why they felt they needed bars (to my knowledge, there was no one violent there by then).

She said: "Oh, those aren't bars...." At which I backhanded one of them hard enough that as it turned out I broke a knuckle....but didn't make a ding in the window in question. She had no answer to that, though she launched into some pre-programmed speech about the "large and competent medical staff".

Not one of who would respond to my request for an examination. I wound up driving home with my left hand and having the thing casted at my own expense. But no.....there were not bars on the windows there.....she said so after all....

To my knowledge, the place is now home mainly to sex offenders.....some of them serving criminal sentences, others having been medically "committed" under a 1939 state law that was originally intended to be used to lock up homosexuals and wives who would not grant their husbands a divorce (is this obsolete or what?).

Such people receive "treatment", about which I know nothing, but are never released. I believe it to be an intense abuse of the medical profession (in this case run by a couple of bootlickers who would have no right to consider themselves "doctors" anywhere on the planet). Thoughts are welcome--I personally would like to see someone stand up to this system, which by all accounts amounts to little less than torture and serves humanity in no possible way. It makes politicians look "tough on crime"....well, we've all heard that song....
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Old 04-15-2006, 04:52 PM
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ahhh dave....... times have changed. not the bars necessarily, but moose lake is now home to a diverse number of state guests. about 50% of whom are not sex offenders including dwi's, and 'accident'. seems to be a 'beds available or not' situation with mndoc's overall facilities. although moose lake also contains a closed facility for those the state has deemed 'commitable'.

i'd like to think that such facilities are staffed with extrodinarily competent personnel, but with what i've learned of DOC across the national board, i'm leary of gettin too comfy with that thought. although..........
MN has created some innovative policies for handling/dealing with those who're incarcerated to such a degree as to be emmulated by others around the country.
i hold on to my belief that in MN there is a pervasive niceness present. hopefully that holds true for our corrections departments also. after all, they are staffed by minnesotans. and minnesotans are basically, well.... nice.
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Old 04-15-2006, 05:23 PM
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Well....I hope so. I should be clear on the fact that Moose Lake, from my point of view at least, was not a bad place, just in need of some major maintenance and housekeeping.

The food was good (despite my "Visitor" badge I was more than once offered a meal) and the rooms were semi-clean. I guess that's about all I have to say on the subject.

A very strange thing about Moose Lake....one enters (or at least entered) the front room of the main building and found yourself facing a woman behind an oak desk in a large room filled with overstuffed leather chairs and with a hanging four-sided clock that looked like something out of Grand Central Station. Until you walked past "Reception" you might have thought you were entering a semi-cushy 1940s hotel. Then you hit the tile floors, the institutional green and beige walls, and you knew you were enteringin another world....
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Old 04-17-2006, 11:50 AM
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Hey Dave:

The "reception area" has not changed much-- very old-fashioned and not "insitutional"

Granni's right about the prison population compostion. But I am totally in accord with you with respect to the so-called treatment program for the civilly comitted sex offenders there. As I understand it, almost none of them have "graduated" from the program. A civil comittment for treatment of a sex offender in this state amounts to a life sentence. OF course, since its "civil comittment" its not punishment, so there are no constitutional problems (according to the courts).-- No wonder three or four guys escaped from st. Peter (the other place we send these offenders after they do their time) recently.

In my jusdgment, ever since the Dur Sjodin tragedy, there is a great public outcry for civil comittment of sex offenders after they complete their sentences. And, judging by the number of appeals I see, more and more of them are being comitted. And, it is frighteningly easy to be comitted. The county attorney simply files the complaint, and court appointed pyschologists make the recommendations. some of these guys had perfect records while incarcerated, and with the restrictions that sex offenders are subject to once released, they would probably do fine. Despite this, every sex offender appears to be in danger of this happening.
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Old 04-17-2006, 11:59 AM
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The trouble with things like commitments is that as they are a "civil matter", things like presumption of innocence, the ability to mount a decent defense, etc., don't exist. One is supposed to believe that the proceeding is being held for the benefit of the "patient" and that therefore the idea that he is on trial for his life is absurd.

I think we know better.
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Old 04-17-2006, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
I think we know better.
Well, those of us who think do.
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Old 04-17-2006, 07:21 PM
Mr. Maltisanti Mr. Maltisanti is offline
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Dave I am begining to think that you were visiting in the PP camp which is actually now outside the prison. From how you have explained your visitors pass and eating this is nothing that moose lake has had going on in the past ten years. Either that or your experience with ML was quite some time ago. Not getting down on you or anything i just don't want to confuse everyone between the PP camp and MCF-ML.

The PP camp is 100% sex offenders and is actually built exactly like the prison in the fact that they were all one place at one time. They split them when the DOC decided to make ML a primary prison location. As Granni has said it is around 50% and Personally i don't ever know of any time that moose lake has been over 65% sex offenders. As a matter of fact Moose Lake just recently got their sex offender treatment program. Umm let me think 2001 is when it started. It is completely segregated off, they have their own unit (Unit 8) and eat and go to recreation separatly. There was a lot of confusion after they enacted it and they were going to start letting them go out to the yard with the other units but Im not sure if that ever happened.....


J.
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Old 04-17-2006, 09:04 PM
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Well I walked as far as "Cottage 8" which was for drug/alcohol treatment and then became part of the prison. I recall walking as far as the doorknob, putting hands on same, and driving said guards up the wall.

We laughed at them. They did not laugh back. And so it goes.
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Old 04-18-2006, 11:52 AM
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Dave:

You said that you visited when it was being converted to a prison. I'm just curious, how long ago was that? And then what happened to the patients there? Did they build a new pyschiatric hospital? I know this is a little off topic, but I'm just curious about it.

I also wanted to throw in that it is not a bad place to visit now, my husband was there for several months and other than the long drive, I didn't mind it.
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:16 PM
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That was in 1995. I have no idea what happened to the patients. Those who were there at the time looked as if they had been there forever. I have often wondered what became of them, and feel terribly, terribly sorry for them.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:44 PM
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that's really sad
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