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  #1  
Old 02-26-2006, 06:56 PM
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Default U.S. Constitution - the foundation of our Government

I have seen several questions on PTO lately about the constitutionality of laws and or actions taken by our Federal and State governments.

Though those question are not answered here and are ultimately answered by the various courts of our country, I am posting a link to a site that provides a copy of the Constitution.

I learned this great document both in school during the 1960s and as a requirement of gaining my U.S. Citizenship.

I have always been amazed and proud of this document, these words, and the profound rights and protections that it grants us.

United States Constitution

Patti

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Old 01-06-2011, 08:33 AM
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Default "We the People.........."

Today on the floor of the House of Representatives the House Speaker of the 112th Congress is opening this Session with the reading of our Constitution.

As a Naturalized Citizen who saw through the eyes of her relatives Oppression and Tyranny up close and personal I strongly urge you to read this Founding Document of our Government and to learn it.

Whether you agree with me politically or not, I believe it is extremely important that EVERY American Citizen know and understand this great document.

Then get deeply involved in the Politics of our Great Nation on the Local, State, and Federal levels.

I feel that those of us who have incarcerated loved one's or have been there ourselves must truly be at the forefront of knowledge and activism to protect our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Please take a moment and follow the link above and read the document that protects you from the government.

Believe me when I say that lately I have seen signs of Oppression and Tyranny that my relatives spoke of that they saw and experienced under the Facists and Communists in my native Germany from all levels of our government; Local, State, and Federal.

Your knowledge and willingness to protect this great document is the only thing that will protect you from Tyranny and Oppression.

Patti

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Old 01-08-2011, 02:26 PM
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I disagree but respectfully. I'm not so politically correct that I respect everyones opinion - but I know where yours come from and respect the journey and the person.

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Originally Posted by FriscoLady View Post
Today on the floor of the House of Representatives the House Speaker of the 112th Congress is opening this Session with the reading of our Constitution.
Actually, an amended reading of the Constitution. They left things out like the idea that slaves are worth only 3/5ths of a person.

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Originally Posted by FriscoLady View Post
As a Naturalized Citizen who saw through the eyes of her relatives Oppression and Tyranny up close and personal I strongly urge you to read this Founding Document of our Government and to learn it.
I have. Short form and long as well as the essays and arguments which led to the formation of many of the articles and amendments. Personally, I think there is too much information for most to absorb and frankly, I doubt many could understand it in it's entirety. There are Constitutional political movements about as we right this who certainly seem (to me) to have misunderstood much of it.

By way of example, James Madison didn't invent the second amendment; it was in the English Bill of Rights. He borrowed it and modified it according to the influence of Sir William Blackstone who wrote the Commentaries on the Laws of England (which is still quoted by SCOTUS 10-12 times a year). In it we are told: "It [the right to keep and bear arms] is to be made use of when the sanctions of society and law are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression."

Indeed, Alexander Hamilton, in his explanation of the second amendment wrote that he, and the other framers of the Bill of Rights, sought to balance not just political power, but also military power, between the people and the nation. In fact, he went so far as to say that the military power of the United States should never exceed the military power of the people so that, "...that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens." In other words - armed insurrection.

Fact is then, the second amendment has nothing to do with guns any more. Guns can't take back this country from an oppressive government. The military power of this country is way beyond guns - much more important is the control of information and intel. Unless 'we the people' have control over satellites, the airwaves and the media, we can no longer take this country back regardless of how oppressive it gets.

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Originally Posted by FriscoLady View Post
Whether you agree with me politically or not, I believe it is extremely important that EVERY American Citizen know and understand this great document. Then get deeply involved in the Politics of our Great Nation on the Local, State, and Federal levels.
I'm not even sure any more when my first involvement came. I was arrested for civil disobedience many times in the Nevada desert as I protested and blocked the military vehicles on their way to test nuclear weapons on Indian land in violation of both Shoshone treaty and a two year international moratorium on nuclear testing honored by every country in the world except the United States.

I, a Native-American, on soveriegn native land - arrested by a foriegn government, for trying to prevent an illegal act by them. The US was testing twice a year at the time. As our protests began gaining traction, the government started schedualing four tests a year and let us stop half of them; they still got their two tests in a year. Three of us actually boarded a military truck in transit once, looking to sabotage it - it wasn't even loaded. Turns out they let us turn them back that time. No snese loading the trucks if it's all an elaborate game to let us think we actually have power.

I remember watching the news commentator in late 1990 talk about how the Saudi Arabian government was allowing the US military to build a base on their land during Desert Storm and how that was the first time they had ever allowed a foreign government to set up military shop in their country. I also remember personally using a US military base in Saudi Arabia as a jumping off point for my team in 1982 and 83 for a mission to defeat a democratic movement in another country which would have displaced the dictator who was in our pocket.

My point is just this: we are lied to, distracted, our ignorance and apathy fed, truth stifled... I am EXTREMELY capable and I've been shut down many times. Not enough people care. The sheep are well-fed, or led to believe that they are well fed. Hell, how many times have you heard, from someone who can't identify five countries on a world map and has never been out of the United States that, "We live in the best country in the world!" Ain't much to fix if you're already the best eh?

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Originally Posted by FriscoLady View Post
I feel that those of us who have incarcerated loved one's or have been there ourselves must truly be at the forefront of knowledge and activism to protect our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
I believe it's gone - too late. It's not a right if someone can take it away; merely a privilege. They can take away my right to free speech with a bullet or a prison sentence and they'll never be held accountable (Free Leonard Peltier) as easily as taking away my right to drive - neither are rights, they're privileges granted at the whim of my government.


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Originally Posted by FriscoLady View Post
Believe me when I say that lately I have seen signs of Oppression and Tyranny that my relatives spoke of that they saw and experienced under the Facists and Communists in my native Germany from all levels of our government; Local, State, and Federal.
Amen to that. I get a perverse kick out of watching old movies of WWII where someone is stopped on the train station with the words, "Papers please." and listening to the inadvertent comments that ALWAYS come up during the commercials from whoever is in the room, "I'm so glad we don't live in a country like that. Can you imagine?"

Yes I can. And if you can't, refuse to hand over your ID (your papers) the next time a cop asks for them or go to the airport and try to travel without having your papers in order. A new totalitarianism has been born in which the people, tethered and hobbled, deny their chains.

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Originally Posted by FriscoLady View Post
Your knowledge and willingness to protect this great document is the only thing that will protect you from Tyranny and Oppression.
The United States Constitution was discovered dead at the time of this writing. Born September 17th, 1787 it is survived by military servicemen and women as well as patriots scattered throughout this countries borders and the world. Exact cause and time of death is unknown.
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:03 PM
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I can honestly say that there is anything in your post that I disagree with.

In fact, as I have said else where in this forum and on the internet - though I am still proud of my military service to this country and of the men and women I served with - that after what was done to my sister and more so my niece by the supposed Justice System I would not lift a finger in defense of our government even if the enemy was on the beaches.

Now would I defend my family and friends from such an enemy - even if that enemy was our own government? Hell Yes!

Which to tell the truth I am no longer sure it is not truly the enemy of the American Citizenry. Our government definitely seems to have become an enemy to the very Constitution and Bill of Rights it was founded upon!

What I am trying to do through my post of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is awaken those "sheep" as you refer (and I have too at times) to the American citizenry.

It is because we have fore saken our duty as citizens that the nation is in the shape it is.

Just as the people of my native Germany failed to guard against tyranny, in fact even welcomed tyranny in exchange for safety - and got neither. The American Citizenry is doing the same, and like my fellow German's of the 1930s and 40s - deserve neither.

I am not to the point of giving up on a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" but I am close.

We either stop the creep towards tyranny now, by being observant of our Representatives, voting, vocalizing and being active in our government. Or we submit to tyranny, or die as did the Founding Generation opposing tyranny.

The first step in becoming active in politics is to know our founding documents, from the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, Federalist Papers, to the Anti-Federalist Papers, etc..

Patti

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Old 01-08-2011, 10:30 PM
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I think both of you made some excellent points. The points I have tried to make on here several times and I have heard this from many nothing scares me more than "Prisons for Profit". As Presendent Eisenhower once warned the nation against the Military-Industrial Complex. I will tell anyone nothing scares me more than the Prison-Industrial Complex. I will always believe this business is a direct threat to everyones freedom.
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:52 PM
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jd,

I think you make an excellent point. I compare our prison system, specifically the private prisons to the Gulags or slave labor camps of other tyrannical governments. Like the military-industrial complex once you start such a system - one must find a use for it. Therefore we had Korea, Viet Nam, both Gulf wars and to a lesser extent the Cold War.

In order to feed the prison-industrial complex the government must pass ever increasing oppressive laws to fill those prisons. Along with these laws they create departments like Homeland Security under the guise of protecting the citizenry from some threat. Homeland Security like the Gestapo, Stassi, et al, are there to oppress the people nothing more.

Thereby the government virtually eats it's own citizenry.

I pray the American citizenry truly wakes up soon. I would rather see a non-violent revolution the ballot box. However, I would have no problem with it taking to the streets either.

Though as we saw in the 60s and before, if it goes to the streets it will turn violent real quick and just as it was then the government will start the violence. If it goes that way this time I pray that the people have the nerve of the Founding Fathers and take it all the way if necessary to force the government to recognize individual liberty and responsibilities as protected by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Patti

Remember The White Rose!

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Old 01-09-2011, 01:19 AM
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I love your passion and can definitly feel u and where your coming from. More people if felt the passion could change alot of what our government does. Most of what the system does is not okay but forever told its ok cause of some title they carry such as" He has no choice because i'm his parole officer, he does what i say" if u disagree they make things very hard. Trashing your home on a sweep and on numerous occasions making your children victims.
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Originally Posted by allmb View Post
I disagree but respectfully. I'm not so politically correct that I respect everyones opinion - but I know where yours come from and respect the journey and the person.



Actually, an amended reading of the Constitution. They left things out like the idea that slaves are worth only 3/5ths of a person.



I have. Short form and long as well as the essays and arguments which led to the formation of many of the articles and amendments. Personally, I think there is too much information for most to absorb and frankly, I doubt many could understand it in it's entirety. There are Constitutional political movements about as we right this who certainly seem (to me) to have misunderstood much of it.

By way of example, James Madison didn't invent the second amendment; it was in the English Bill of Rights. He borrowed it and modified it according to the influence of Sir William Blackstone who wrote the Commentaries on the Laws of England (which is still quoted by SCOTUS 10-12 times a year). In it we are told: "It [the right to keep and bear arms] is to be made use of when the sanctions of society and law are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression."

Indeed, Alexander Hamilton, in his explanation of the second amendment wrote that he, and the other framers of the Bill of Rights, sought to balance not just political power, but also military power, between the people and the nation. In fact, he went so far as to say that the military power of the United States should never exceed the military power of the people so that, "...that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens." In other words - armed insurrection.

Fact is then, the second amendment has nothing to do with guns any more. Guns can't take back this country from an oppressive government. The military power of this country is way beyond guns - much more important is the control of information and intel. Unless 'we the people' have control over satellites, the airwaves and the media, we can no longer take this country back regardless of how oppressive it gets.



I'm not even sure any more when my first involvement came. I was arrested for civil disobedience many times in the Nevada desert as I protested and blocked the military vehicles on their way to test nuclear weapons on Indian land in violation of both Shoshone treaty and a two year international moratorium on nuclear testing honored by every country in the world except the United States.

I, a Native-American, on soveriegn native land - arrested by a foriegn government, for trying to prevent an illegal act by them. The US was testing twice a year at the time. As our protests began gaining traction, the government started schedualing four tests a year and let us stop half of them; they still got their two tests in a year. Three of us actually boarded a military truck in transit once, looking to sabotage it - it wasn't even loaded. Turns out they let us turn them back that time. No snese loading the trucks if it's all an elaborate game to let us think we actually have power.

I remember watching the news commentator in late 1990 talk about how the Saudi Arabian government was allowing the US military to build a base on their land during Desert Storm and how that was the first time they had ever allowed a foreign government to set up military shop in their country. I also remember personally using a US military base in Saudi Arabia as a jumping off point for my team in 1982 and 83 for a mission to defeat a democratic movement in another country which would have displaced the dictator who was in our pocket.

My point is just this: we are lied to, distracted, our ignorance and apathy fed, truth stifled... I am EXTREMELY capable and I've been shut down many times. Not enough people care. The sheep are well-fed, or led to believe that they are well fed. Hell, how many times have you heard, from someone who can't identify five countries on a world map and has never been out of the United States that, "We live in the best country in the world!" Ain't much to fix if you're already the best eh?



I believe it's gone - too late. It's not a right if someone can take it away; merely a privilege. They can take away my right to free speech with a bullet or a prison sentence and they'll never be held accountable (Free Leonard Peltier) as easily as taking away my right to drive - neither are rights, they're privileges granted at the whim of my government.




Amen to that. I get a perverse kick out of watching old movies of WWII where someone is stopped on the train station with the words, "Papers please." and listening to the inadvertent comments that ALWAYS come up during the commercials from whoever is in the room, "I'm so glad we don't live in a country like that. Can you imagine?"

Yes I can. And if you can't, refuse to hand over your ID (your papers) the next time a cop asks for them or go to the airport and try to travel without having your papers in order. A new totalitarianism has been born in which the people, tethered and hobbled, deny their chains.



The United States Constitution was discovered dead at the time of this writing. Born September 17th, 1787 it is survived by military servicemen and women as well as patriots scattered throughout this countries borders and the world. Exact cause and time of death is unknown.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:12 PM
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As a foreigner who has only lived in America for a year in 1994 and as someone who has studied the US constitution a little bit as a student (mostly the 1st amendment, freedom of speech/press) I have to say that I think it's a pretty GREAT document - ie. the document itself. After reading your posts though I realize that the praxis is probably not so great - the same goes for my country's constitution. Our constitution isn't all bad but lacks a LOT and could take heed from the US one - there are a lot of great things there that we don't have.

We recently had a constitutional election where we voted for civilians to revise and come up with propositions as to how our constitution can be improved. We chose 25 people and they are working on it as we speak. Our parliament has made a commitment to seriously consider and use the proposal they're going to come up with. One of the people I voted for is very well read in the US constituion (I think he even studied in an American university somewhere) and I know he plans on bringing many points from it to the table.

Very interesting dialogue here - thank you for the insight.
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Old 04-22-2011, 04:13 AM
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I don't understand the "google" calls.

Last edited by KNH; 04-22-2011 at 04:14 AM..
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:42 AM
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Unfortunately, the general public lives in a "cloud world" where the US is incapable of a long list of sins because Joe and Jane Public have been lazy enough to buy the hype. Then, that Constitution that we believed protected the innocent, the right to privacy, etc. crumbles when the badges knock on OUR doors and we need to rely on its protections. No one seems to "get it" until it is their door and then it's too late.

My experience with the Texas judicial system has forever tainted my concept of the Constitution and "respect for the laws of democracy". The whole system is the Good Old Boys keeping their butts covered, the public lied to, and being reelected . . . that is what US democracy has become. I marched in the 60's . . . I believed we could change the world, and, for a moment, we did, but the politicians just evolved and adapted to the new enviornment to continue their games.

As a paramedic, I've worked "shots fired, officer down" calls, but, as a result of my experience, unless I know the HUMAN behind the badge, there is no respect or empathy or care left. I no longer work in that world. This experience has changed me for the worse and I believe forever.

Today, I live in on acerage as far from the rest of the world as I can get. I have locked gates and fences designed to keep the rest of the world out. I venture into that world only to get the supplies I cannot provide for myself. As long as I am here, I feel safe. Out there, I am terrified that the cops will stop me without probable cause, and jail me because I refuse to give permission to search my car/person, even though that is my Constitutional right.

It took me years to find this peace, and, yes, it is peaceful here . . . where I am free. I have internet and television for the limited exposure I want with "them". The rest of my time is spent reading, thinking, writing, and living independently much as my Native American ancestors tried to live.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:42 PM
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Default Constitutional detours

Patti,
Germany often interests me. I speak fairly fluent German. Actually the 3/5s head count for slaves was the best compromise for unity until the Civil War. Otherwise the country would not have been. If they counted slaves as a full person for Congress, The Southern states would have dominated us because they would get more representatives. But I agree with everything else in the first response to the post.

We are totally off the constitution. Look at the clause in the constitution about the "Bill of Attainere". This was a clause used by the King of England to outlaw ex felons and Scottish rebels. They could not conduct commerce and were forced to live in forests eating wild oats. Anyone who killed them was blameless at law. Now we are seeing lifetime restrictions in civil liberties to ex cons vis a vis the Bill of Attainere. It is illegal. In many countries such as Germany, Austria, and elsewhere, all records are completely destroyed 15 years after a sentence is completed. Not even the police can access it. But here likely your phone is tapped for life, jobs may be cancelled without having ever signed to allow a background check-blacklisting or a Berufsverbot in German.

I study the PMBR Law Review on a CD in my truck. Did you know they feel they have a constitutional right to put a bug on your car bumper as long as it isn't on your car? It is on the constitutional section CD's. It also states a payphone has no expectation of privacy so long as it is not an enclosed booth.

The media uses minor truths mixed with horrible lies to silence anyone who brings up the Bill of Attainere and its rightful prohibition.
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:15 PM
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Default All I Ever Needed to Know about the Bill of Rights...

All I Ever Needed to Know about the Bill of Rights...

...I learned by watching the Andy Griffith show. RIP ANDY! You and Sheriff Taylor are missed. And Happy Independence Day to all.



Do I need to RIP our Bill of Rights too? Could it just be on life support? Can we restore it to good health or is it too late?
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:28 PM
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Don't know if it's too late for the Bill of Rights . . . but I already miss the truth, honesty, and morality of Mayberry USA and Andy Griffith. Just common sense. People caring about other people. Truth. Responsibility when you mess up. Healing when you needed it. Hugs were abundant. And, Aunt Bee's apple pies cooled on the window ledge for supper's dessert.

Beam me up, Scottie! I think the intelligent life here is becoming an endangered species!
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:31 PM
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Constitution & Bill of Rights need to be supplemented by an awareness of Federalist Papers (a long read) that judges often use in deciding between conflicting claims or rights. Without a grounding in the FPs, the Constitution -- as any relatively short document -- can be twisted to mean anything. Two phrases in particular have rendered the Constitution close to meaningless:

"General welfare" in the Preamble and "Interstate commerce" are especially slippery given liberal enough interpretations of "commerce" and what measures are needed to protect/maintain an ill-defined "welfare".
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