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  #1  
Old 08-26-2004, 12:00 AM
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Exclamation New York Prison Flat Bids and Sentencing Q & A

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My boyfriend has a flat bid of 4 years. So far he's had no infractions he's recently completed and passed his GED. He's also finished a masonry class. His programs are done. My question to you are these accomplishments a plus for him? Will it give some time off of his bid? By the way his counselor is putting in for a VFO for him next month
someone asked me this...

I would say, yes I think it is a plus anything to better himself is a plus!
And they can earn good time...I have recently learned they can get time off flat bids.
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Last edited by Manzanita; 02-20-2005 at 08:34 AM..
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Old 08-26-2004, 01:02 PM
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Flat bids are for violent offenders. There is no work release for violent offenders. He has to serve 6/7 of his time. The remaining 1/7 is his good time which he doesn't need to do anything to earn, he just needs to not lose it! The TAC (time allowance committe) can only take good time for tier 3 ticket offences, although this does not mean that if he catches a tier 3 that he will lose good time or that it will even be recomended. If your boyfriend has a flat bid of 4 years and has not had a recomendation of loss of good time (he would know this if he did) then he will be let out after serving 6/7 of the 4 years. There is no way for him to be released any earlier no matter what he does. Those with flat bids are not eligable for any early release programs such as parole, work release, merit release, etc. When you look him up on the DOC inmate look-up website, his earliest possible release date listed is the date he will come home, granted that he doesn't lose any of his good time. This is also known as his CR (conditional release) date. A VFO is a violent felony override. If he was granted this, I'm not sure how that would affect his sentence.

Last edited by Mrs. JV; 08-26-2004 at 02:01 PM..
  #3  
Old 08-26-2004, 09:00 PM
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Section Six:

INTERSTATE

1. CAN I BE PAROLED OR CONDITIONALLY RELEASED OUT-OF-STATE?

Yes. You must first be accepted by the other state under the Interstate Compact for Parole.

2. WHAT IS THE INTERSTATE COMPACT FOR PAROLE?

The Interstate Compact for Parole is an agreement among the fifty states, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands and the District of Columbia that allows individuals paroled by one state to be supervised in another state. The basic authority for the Interstate Compact is contained in federal legislation originally passed in 1934.

3. WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE FOR OUT-OF-STATE PAROLE?

You should discuss your release plans with your Facility Parole Officer prior to your Board appearance for release consideration. If you request an out-of-state parole program, the plan will be forwarded to the other state for investigation. When the investigation is completed, the results will be forwarded to the institution and will be discussed with you by your Parole Officer. If you have been accepted for parole by the other state, you can be paroled directly to that state if the Board makes a positive release decision.

4. APPROXIMATELY HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO PROCESS MY REQUEST FOR INTERSTATE PAROLE/CONDITIONAL RELEASE?

It will usually take ten to twelve weeks to process an out-of-state investigation request.

5. IF PAROLED IN NEW YORK STATE, MAY I LATER TRANSFER MY PAROLE OUT-OF-STATE?

Yes. Transfer to another state must be discussed with your New York State Parole Officer. The process is similar to the process for being released directly to out-of-state parole officials, and takes about the same amount of time.

6. MAY I BE PAROLED TO RETURN TO MY NATIVE COUNTRY?

Yes, you can apply, either while still in the institution or while on parole supervision, to be repatriated to your native country. You must make your own travel arrangements and have verification of citizenship in your native country. Such requests are reviewed by the Board of Parole. If approved, you will be required to contact New York State Parole in writing upon arrival in your country. You will not be permitted to return to the United States without the permission of the New York State Parole Board, or the appropriate federal authority if there is an immigration issue.

7. WHAT IF I AM PAROLED TO AN IMMIGRATION WARRANT?

If you are paroled to an Immigration warrant and deported as a result of that warrant, you are prohibited from reentering the United States without permission of the appropriate United States Immigration officials. To do so would be a violation of your parole. If, upon parole from a state correctional facility or at any time thereafter you are released from an Immigration warrant, you are required to report to the appropriate area office to be placed on supervision.

8. WHAT PAROLE CONDITIONS WILL I BE UNDER?

If paroled out-of-state under the Interstate Compact, you will be under the parole rules of both the sending and receiving states. For example, if you are paroled to North Carolina, you will be under the parole rules of New York and North Carolina. The same standard of supervision that applies in the receiving state for the supervision of its own parolees applies to out-of-state parolees sent there under terms of the Interstate Compact.

9. IF I VIOLATE THE CONDITIONS OF MY PAROLE OUT-OF-STATE, WILL I BE RETURNED TO NEW YORK?

If you are paroled to another state under the Interstate Compact, you agree to waive extradition (to return voluntarily) to the sending state if instructed to do so. If you violate the conditions of parole in the receiving state, the situation will be reviewed by the New York State Board of Parole. If it is determined by the New York State Board of Parole that a Final Hearing should be conducted, you will be returned to New York State when available to the New York State Parole violation warrant


-----------
Section One:

ISSUES REGARDING TIME SERVED

1. WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR TIME CALCULATIONS?

The Inmate Records Coordinator (IRC) at each State correctional facility is responsible for time calculations. When you are received in state custody, the IRC at the facility will determine the amount of jail time to be credited to your minimum sentence, along with your parole eligibility date, earliest conditional release date, and maximum expiration date.

2. IF I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH MY TIME CALCULATION, WHERE DO I GO?

If you have any problems with your time calculation, you should first check with the Inmate Records Coordinator at the correctional facility where you are presently housed to obtain your official time calculation. This will indicate the length of your sentence and the amount of jail time with which you have been credited. If, after contacting the Inmate Records Coordinator, you believe there is still a problem with your time calculation, a letter should be sent to the Clerk of the Court where the sentence was imposed. The letter should indicate the specific problem and/or what information is being sought. You should request that certified copies of your sentencing minutes and/or sentence jail time be forwarded to the Inmate Records Coordinator to allow for recomputation of your sentence.

3. WHAT IS A DETERMINATE SENTENCE AND AN INDETERMINATE SENTENCE?

A determinate sentence, or "flat" sentence, is one in which the court is authorized only to set a fixed period of incarceration without a minimum and maximum spread.

An indeterminate sentence is one in which the court can set minimum and maximum lengths of incarceration within the outer limits set by statute.

4. HOW DOES JAIL TIME AFFECT MY MINIMUM?

Jail time is credited toward service of your minimum sentence established by the sentencing Court.

5. WHAT IS GOOD TIME?

New York State Penal Law states that an inmate may earn time allowances (good time) off his or her maximum term of imprisonment for good institutional behavior.

6. HOW CAN I GET RELEASED FROM PRISON?

There are three ways to be released:

a. Board Release

b. Mandatory Conditional Release (CR)

c. Completion of the maximum sentence (max-out)

7. WHAT IS A BOARD RELEASE?

A Board release occurs when a panel of Parole Board members grant your release to parole after you have served a portion of your sentence. This is the most frequent manner by which an offender re-enters the community.

8. WHAT IS CONDITIONAL RELEASE (CR)?

All inmates, except those serving life sentences, are eligible to have their sentences reduced for good time served. Conditional Release (CR) must be granted when your total good behavior time is equal to the unserved portion of your maximum term. For indeterminate sentences, this occurs when you have served two-thirds of your maximum sentence and there has been no loss of good time. For example, if serving an indeterminate sentence of one to three years, you could be released by the Parole Board after serving the minimum of one year and you are eligible for conditional release after serving two years.

For determinate sentences, created by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1995, there is no parole eligibility, and conditional release occurs when you have served six-sevenths of your sentence and there has been no loss of good time.

Conditional release is a statutory type of release which the Board of Parole does not have discretion to grant or deny. However, no matter what kind of sentence you are serving, you must meet two conditions to be eligible for conditional release:

a. You must request conditional release; and

b. You must agree in writing to abide by the conditions of parole for conditional release until the expiration of your maximum term. The conditions are essentially the same as those imposed upon other parolees.

9. WHAT DOES "MAX-OUT" MEAN?

"Max-out" means that you are released from prison after serving the maximum term. This can occur in the following instances:

a. You are not paroled and lose all good time; or

b. You have less than one year remaining on your sentence and you are returned to prison as a conditional releasee or parole violator, with a Parole Board decision that you be held to the maximum expiration (ME) of your sentence.

10. CAN ANYTHING ELSE AFFECT MY MAXIMUM EXPIRATION DATE ONCE I AM RELEASED TO PAROLE SUPERVISION?

Yes. If, while under parole supervision, you are declared delinquent, your sentence time stops running and the time during which you were delinquent is added to your current maximum expiration date. If delinquency is cancelled by the Board of Parole, your original maximum expiration date is restored. Immediately upon being apprehended and incarcerated solely on a parole violation warrant, your time resumes running and is credited as parole jail time.
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Last edited by Manzanita; 04-29-2005 at 09:50 PM..
  #4  
Old 08-31-2004, 11:08 AM
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The letter in an inmates din number tells what reception center he came from. For example if an inmate has the number 97-A-6789 "A" means he came from downstate. If an inmate has "T" in his number like 97-T-6789...that means he was in downstate and they reached 10,000 inmates that year. So, they start the numbering with "T," another example, 97-T-0001. But, you don't see that many "T" numbers anymore. Because, Ulster was opened. If you see an inmate with "R" in his number, that means he came through Ulster reception. So, it would look like 97-R-6789. (Sing Sing used to give out "A" numbers before downstate was built. Hence, Sing Sing is not a reception center anymore) Then you have the "B" numbers, if an inmate has a "B" in his number (97-B-6789), that means he came from Elmira reception. Most of the time, youthful offenders go through Elmira reception. But, they also take adult inmates that live in the North part of NYS. It is easier to have them processed in Elmira than to ship them all the way down to downstate ("C" is used when Elmira goes over 10,000 inmates in a year, for example it would be 97-C-0001. Just like downstate with their "T" numbers). There used to be "D" numbers. But, they don't use them anymore. Awhile back Clinton was used for a reception center. So, I could tell if a man lived far from the city if he had a number like 76-D-6789. Being Ulster opened up it has taken the strain off a lot of the other reception centers. Now, if you see an inmate with "G" that means that inmate is female and went through Bedford Hills reception...So, 96-G-6789 would be a female inmate from Bedford Hills reception.

These are little facts. I have hundreds of little facts about New York State Correctional Services. Although I have not been in every prison. I know how all of them are run. Because, I would hear about the prisons I have never been to from other inmates and vice versa. Rikers Island used to be my second home growing up. But, they have built a lot of new buildings and it is "kind" of a "safe" jail nowadays. They have much more control over the inmates. When I was jailing on Rikers...the inmates ran the place and it was a blood bath during the 80's. Now, it is like a sleep a way camp...I am not saying that is a bad thing. But, in the older days, if you were able to survive Rikers Island without one stitch being in the General Population...you got ALOT of respect when you got out. When I first went to Rikers at 16 years old. I lied and said I was 19. So, I would not be with the petty kid hoodlums. In the adult parts...there was more respect for one another, they also played for keeps if you had a beef. The kids did not have it in them to actually stab a man in his heart. They just slashed each other with razors. Men have nothing to prove compared to kids. Plus, I always acted older than my age. I only had one beef out of the dozen times I was sent to Rikers and I came out the winner.

I can't believe they are able to control Rikers Island like they do nowadays. I thought it could never be done. A lot of it has to do with the new buildings. They don't use HDM anymore, that was a dangerous house. The other reason, is before, if you cut up a fellow inmate, the jail would just put you in the Bing (box) for up to 90 days. Now, if you cut a fellow inmate, they re-arrest you, they handcuff you and take you to the Bronx courthouse (on the spot) to be arraigned on fresh charges of assault and I have heard of dudes serving just 30 days and getting 7 years simply because they slashed an inmate. That alone makes an inmate think twice about doing anything stupid. Another thing, there is a different class of inmates nowadays. ALOT of inmates will snitch on another inmate without thinking twice. When I was jailing, nobody saw anything and nobody ever snitched...we had codes we stuck by. Most inmates fold like cheap suits when the pressure is on.

Note:
Any crimes committed on Rikers island are brought to the Bronx courts. The reason is, the Bronx is closer to Rikers Than Queens is...even though you have to go through Queens to get to Rikers. If you look on a map you will see the Bronx is closer to Rikers than Queens is....Strange Huh?

Let me stop here and...I will write more about New York Jails/prisons accordingly.
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Last edited by Manzanita; 02-19-2005 at 08:35 AM..
  #5  
Old 08-31-2004, 08:06 PM
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i would love to hear those tips out of curiosity i mean my best friend is already in wyoming cf but i want to learn as much as possible ...
ty for explaing the stuff with the letters in the DIN now i can surprise?scare him and tell him that i know that he has been to ulster receiption ... he will freak when i tell him that cuz he thinks already that i have a hook up on infos if he only knew that i have my PTO family looking forwads to hear more dave and big THANK YOU this is such a interesting threat
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Old 08-31-2004, 08:41 PM
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Wyoming CF huh? That is right next door to Attica and when the people messed up in Wyoming they simply sent them to ATTICA. Being Wyoming is a medium, a lot of them never been behind the wall before. So, as soon as they entered Attica their entire "bee bop" demeanor changes and they start to bitch up in a heartbeat...Lol

Being your friend went through Ulster...he never did time behind the wall. So, that is a good thing. Back in the days every inmate had to do at least one year in a max before they got sent to a medium. It helped them stay in place. Because, there is a huge difference between a medium prison and a max prison. Being NYS has so many inmates they just send medium inmates to medium prisons...till they mess up and they either go to a max of the dreaded Southport Correctional Facility.

Anyhow, I like to share any info I have. If anyone has any questions just ask.
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Old 08-31-2004, 09:12 PM
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THANK YOU on the input and my friend knows better not to act up cuz i am waiting on him out here all by myself!!! i have a question which i asked him already but his answers dont satisfy me ... when it comes to prison he doesnt like to write alot about it so i leave him alone but my question is

WHAT IS THE DIFFERNCE BETWEEN MAX, MED and MIN FACILITIES??? (i want to know if they all in cells and so on and how much "freedom" they get )

oh yeah and you never answered me about the tricksabout shaving their heads and getting placed in certain facilities they want

i want to be your student!!!
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Old 09-01-2004, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasty_boo
THANK YOU on the input and my friend knows better not to act up cuz i am waiting on him out here all by myself!!! i have a question which i asked him already but his answers dont satisfy me ... when it comes to prison he doesnt like to write alot about it so i leave him alone but my question is

WHAT IS THE DIFFERNCE BETWEEN MAX, MED and MIN FACILITIES??? (i want to know if they all in cells and so on and how much "freedom" they get )

oh yeah and you never answered me about the tricksabout shaving their heads and getting placed in certain facilities they want

i want to be your student!!!
OK I will give you a brief rundown on some of your questions. Inmates that are starting fresh bids have to get their heads shaved for ID reasons. A lot of people think it is for lice. But, that is not the case. Parole violators that come from the very same jail as the fresh inmates do not get their head shaved. That is because, they are simply returning on the same bid. I remember I was the only parole violator on the bus and everyone I was with got shaved except me. I kept my hair and mustache.

Anyhow, you can get a court order not to have your head shaved for religious reasons. It is done in the courtroom. Some men state they are American Indians and get a wavier for a head shaving. Inmates with dread locks can get a wavier for head shaving. There was this blond haired and blue eyed dude that had hair down to his butt and he said he would take a plea if his head was not shaved and sure enough he got the wavier. You just have to take care of this before you hit downstate. When I first went up...my hair was already short and I just went through with it.

As far as the different prisons go. You have a Max "A" and a Max "B."
A Max "A" is ultra high security with cells and a wall, a Max "B" is Dorms with either a wall or triple razor wire. The way they make the new Max prisons nowadays, they are just called Max...period. Because, they have all this high tech sensor equipment and all the latest gadgets. A Medium "B" is dorms or rooms with a single razor wire fence. A medium "A" has a little more security with double wire fence, they are mostly dorm settings with cubes for your space (most of the newer mediums are medium "A" and they all look the same). Minimums are camps with no fence and most inmates have outside clearance, they are either in dorm settings or room settings...Also, work release facilities are considered minimums. Because, most inmates are coming and going from the street and those are dorm settings as well.

As far as getting to a prison closer to home. You have to make the hardship case before you take any type of plea bargain. That way, when you get to downstate, they will hold you till a bed opens up in a joint closer to home. You have to say your family is old or sick, you have to say your wife is all alone with your child and it would be a hardship if you were sent far away. You just have to get your reason typed in the court record so the judge and the D.A put it in writing not to send you far away. Most inmates don't think about that stuff and when they get to downstate, the next prison they get sent to is 400 miles away and if you are a medium inmate...you are stuck in that hub. Everyone wants to be closer to NY. You have to know how to buck the system to get what you want. Otherwise, they will send you where the next bed is open. It could be anywhere. Some inmates get lucky and get sent to joints that are close to home because all the upstate joints are full. But, most of the time, they send you up north.
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Old 09-01-2004, 01:56 PM
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WOW dave you are the best i just wrote my friend about the fact that i know which reception he was in and i know he will freak when he reads it ... i also tald him that i found a "teacher" with alot of infos so he better be careful what he is telling me so once a person is moved to a certain facility from their reception center there is NO way to get them moved??? i mean my friend mentioned soem that he wants to be moved but reading your answer it seems like he wont be able to do it right??
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Old 09-01-2004, 05:05 PM
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Dave,

Very helpful advice first hand!

my husband is in max and has served his whole term in max, a long TIME... and he has been in one prison for the last like, I think 9-10 years...he knows other who have done like 10 in one prison too.
I know that every six months, starting when I don't know, my husband gets a transfer review it is called, and I am not sure when this applied to him, but I know that he told me his classification went up, and he was able to apply to a med.
They never did approve any of his requests, they said "he would be better off staying where he is, it is in his best interest..." and We thought they would send him to med, because when you are close to coming home, which he is, 18 months left...they usually transfer you to Med to finish the time. He got a review recently and asked not to be transfered, he was told he would be finishing his time where he is.

I know that if you are eligible as far as classification, and you ask for a transfer from MAX to MED it has to be within the same hub unless he is asking for a specific program he needs to do out of his HUB.

I was confused about the MAX to MAX thing, I guess he could ask to go to another MAX anywhere, but that does not mean anything with my husbands experience with them, ALbany decides where they think it is best they fit. ALL OF US want them to be close to home, don't we? It does not work that way for MOST of us unfortunately.
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Old 09-01-2004, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs G
Dave,

Very helpful advice first hand!

my husband is in max and has served his whole term in max, a long TIME... and he has been in one prison for the last like, I think 9-10 years...he knows other who have done like 10 in one prison too.
I know that every six months, starting when I don't know, my husband gets a transfer review it is called, and I am not sure when this applied to him, but I know that he told me his classification went up, and he was able to apply to a med.
They never did approve any of his requests, they said "he would be better off staying where he is, it is in his best interest..." and We thought they would send him to med, because when you are close to coming home, which he is, 18 months left...they usually transfer you to Med to finish the time. He got a review recently and asked not to be transfered, he was told he would be finishing his time where he is.

I know that if you are eligible as far as classification, and you ask for a transfer from MAX to MED it has to be within the same hub unless he is asking for a specific program he needs to do out of his HUB.

I was confused about the MAX to MAX thing, I guess he could ask to go to another MAX anywhere, but that does not mean anything with my husbands experience with them, ALbany decides where they think it is best they fit. ALL OF US want them to be close to home, don't we? It does not work that way for MOST of us unfortunately.
You are correct about Albany deciding what "they" think is best for an inmate. You see...sometimes when a man has spent a very long time doing his bid in a cell...it is sometimes a shock when that man is placed in a huge noisy dorm setting with a 100 inmates running around the dorm like idiots. A man really can't get the privacy he had when he gets sent to a Medium after a lot of years. As far as 6 month review for transfers...Sometimes men don't want to leave the joint they are in...regardless if it is closer to home. When they are in a prison and they have no beef and they have a routine and have friends and a job that helps him pass the time. Sometimes it is freighting to go to another prison to get readjusted to a new setting and start from scratch making new friends and making a new routine for himself. So, they are just better off staying in a prison they are comfortable with. I know that when I went up for transfer reviews every 6 months, I declined on the transfer many times. Because, I was comfortable where I was at. I had respect. People knew me and I was able to do my time in harmony that way...So, it is not unusual for men to want to stay put till they get out.
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Old 09-24-2004, 05:10 AM
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Thumbs up Post Info. Flat Bids, Sentencing

Dave, the guys with NO Life at the end have the best chances of getting out, and guys with flat bids...they can get CR, like my husband. They do have a better chance of getting out if they serve their minimum, but not guarenteed. My husbands min, was 12.5 and he will not get out until 16.5 which is 65%...

Alot of them like this, have a good chance of coming out on CR. Right, no matter how good they have been, because my husband has not had trouble in 10 years, almost his whole bid, and he has done EVERY program and facilitates a ART program too. He has GED some college, and he had a great package...and STILL HIT. And yes, IN NY, VO offenders will get hit at the board! Yes, Pataki has taken away college from them and has made it impossible for these guys with VO to get out at all!!

But, I have read about reversals, well one, but now I cannot find it, my hsband used it in his arguement, it was about a chinese VO who had went to college inside and he was hit, and then they reversed it when he proved he had changed, if I find it when I have time to search, I will post it, but I am off to work now....

Quote:
A lot of inmates think that when they serve their minimum they go home. That is not the case. All it means is they go up for review. So, all those bids I mentioned have a 90% chance of getting hit with two years, no matter how good they have been, no matter if they have ASAT and life without violence program, a G.E.D, etc.; The board looks at the crime...nothing more. If the crime is a violent crime. You should never get your hopes up. I am sad to say this. But, the Board wants every inmate to do at least two-thirds of their max...if they have a violent crime. Lawyers and appeals and writing to Albany won't do anything but get hopes up. I have never seen a reversal in a parole board decision in my life and I started jailing 18 years ago. Now that Pataki is in office, he is letting drug offenders go home on first boards and work release. To make room for the men that are doing time for violent crime. So, if your loved one does not have a set date and he is not close to his conditional release, then you have to be prepared for the long haul...two-thirds.
Also, what about Cathy Boudin? She was VO, and they let her go....did she do her 65% I have to check, I think she did. My husband has to do his two thirds. Usually the CR is the two thirds.
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Old 09-24-2004, 07:07 AM
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If your man has a number at the end of his bid, like a 5 to 15...making 15 the number at the end of his bid, and the crime was violent. If he did not get any tier 3 misbehavior reports where they took good time from him. Then they have to let him go on his conditional release date, That is called being C.R.ed.
The conditional release date is when an inmate does exactly two-thirds of his max. So, if he had 15 years on the end of his bid...he would have to complete 10 years (two-thirds of 15). Like I said, I am just using 15 as an example. I used to be an expert on sentencing guidelines for New York. Now, there are only two ways an inmate would have to do the whole 15 on a 15 year bid. The first way is if the inmate continued to lose good time by getting serious tier 3 tickets and box time. When an inmate goes to an administrative hearing because he got a tier 3 ticket, the administrative officer that conducts the tier hearing can only recommend loss of good time. Not to exceed one year in most tier 3 tickets. Then before that inmates is almost finished with his two-thirds, he goes to panel called the time allowance committee. It is there that they decided to take the recommended loss of good time away or not. Now, if he did not get into trouble after the tier 3 offense for a long time and was a good inmate. They won't take his time away, if he was a bad inmate that continued to get into trouble, they will take away the recommended loss of good time on each tier 3 ticket offense. I am going to use Robert Chambers as an example. He was serving a 5 to 15 for manslaughter. Being the crime was violent, he had no chance of making the board. So, he would have got out by law if he brought them 10 years (two-thirds). But, because, he kept getting into trouble with drugs, fights, assaults on guards. The time allowance committee took the recommended loss of good time on every tier-3 infraction. Hence, he had to do the whole 15 years. They could not keep him in any longer than his max. But, that rarely ever happens. Chambers was simply a problem inmate. Now the second way an inmate would have to max out is if he was paroled and he was violated and if he had 18 months left on his bid and the parole violation was set for 18 months. They would have to let him out when he reached his max..."the end number."

I am not saying there have been a few reverses on parole board decisions. But, a reversal is so rare you could only find a very small handful of reversals out of the tens of thousands of inmates that have been denied parole by the board. There a few cases that inmates use for an example when submitting a parole appeal, I used NYS Vs Pike and lost my appeal of course. But, those examples of parole reversals fall on deaf ears 98% of the time. When you put in appeal, they really don't look at the fact that you got your GED, ASAT, Life without violence program, they look at the crime and nothing more. Even when you go to the parole board, the board really could give a dam if you got a GED, collage, certificates in welding, woodshop or whatever. They are looking at the crime, the only thing a GED, ASAT and Life without violence is used for, is used as an excuse to hit you with two years if you don't have them. For example, they board will say "come back in 24 months with ASAT and a GED" and sure enough the inmate takes ASAT and a GED and the board will find an other reason to hit the inmate for 24 months. The board also uses the pre sentence report or what is called a probation report to decide. Most inmates don't know this, but it is better to refuse a presentence/probation report when the jail asks you to talk to a probation officer at the jail before you are sent up. Because that report can be used against you. If they have no report, the board has no extra ammo to hit you with.

Anyhow, as long as your man does not get into serious trouble while serving his time, he HAS to be released after serving two-thirds of the end number on his bid.
Now, here is how bids are set up. If you are a first felony offender and lets say you cop out to a "c" felony and you get the max for a "c," they will give you a 5 to 15 year sentence. Now lets say you commit the same exact crime but you already have a felony conviction from years back or you got a paper felony (most of the time a paper felony is 6 months and 5 years probation). Or you just had a felony and served your entire time on that.
Being you have a prior felony conviction, the sentence will be a 7 and a half to 15. The funny thing is the conditional release date on a 7 and a half to 15 and the conditional release date on a 5 to 15 is the exact same time...10 years, two-thirds of the bid.

Here are examples of second felony offender bids,
1 and a half to 3, 2 to 4, 2 and a half to 5, 3 to 6, 3 and a half to 7, 4 to 8, 5 to 10, 6 to 12, 7 and a half to 15, 10 to 20, 12 and a half to 25.

Here is some examples of first time felony offender bids,
1 to 3, 1 and a half to 4 and a half, 2 to 6, 2 and one-third to 7, 2 and two-thirds to 8, 3 and a half to 10, 4 to 12, 5 to 15, 7 to 21, 8 and one-third to 25.

If you notice second time felony offenders have to bring the board half the bid, before they go for review and first time offenders only have to bring one-third of their bid, before they go for review.

But, all of these bids have the same thing in common, they all have the same exact same conditional release date, two-thirds. For example, a man that is doing 5 to 15 has to be released after serving two-thirds of the 15 and that is 10 years.
If a man is doing a 7 and a half to 15, that man has to be released after serving two-thirds and that is 10 years.

So, the bottom line is this...if your crime is violent, 90% of the time the board will want you to bring them two-thirds of the end number of the bid. So, take the end number of the bid you are doing and subtract one-third and you will have your mandatory release date or the amount of time he has to serve before they HAVE to release him.

The only men that do not have a two-third release date is men that have no end number on their bid, the have letters instead of the end number and those letters are L-I-F-E.
So, if a dude has a 5 to life a 10 to life, a 15 to life or a 25 to life. There is NO conditional release date. They can get hit for 2 years every time they go up for review. Those are the worst kind of bids. So, the dudes that DO NOT have life on the end of their bids have the best chance of being released from prison...in other words, they can't keep you in forever.

I hate to break it down like this. But, you must know what is going on when it comes to time and the parole board. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. That way your dreams are not crushed.


Regards, Dave

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Old 09-24-2004, 12:20 PM
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The only men that do not have a two-third release date is men that have no end number on their bid, the have letters instead of the end number and those letters are L-I-F-E.
Don't forget the Flat bids.... They don't CR after two-thirds, instead they CR after six-sevenths of the flat time.
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Old 09-24-2004, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrs. JV
Don't forget the Flat bids.... They don't CR after two-thirds, instead they CR after six-sevenths of the flat time.
Those are really called zip bids and they are very rare in NYS. They used to give zip bids to dudes a very long time ago. But, the sentencing guidelines I posted above is what they use nowadays.
You also have the fed time and under the old law they have to do 85% of the time. But, the feds are trying to do away with parole all together.

As far as flat/zip bids. You are not going to see many people with those type of bids. If you find a person in NYS serving a bid like that, it would be very very rare.
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Old 09-24-2004, 06:29 PM
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Hey Dave,

Thanks for your detailed information. I am sure someone out there can use this…I hope they do not get confused or overwhelmed by it, like Tammy. Her husband has LIFE at the end.

As for myself, like I had said earlier, my husband and I are very familiar with parole, we have been there 2x and we know full well that they could care less what my husband has done in there to improve and educate himself. My husband has done every program and like I said, he even facilitates ART and they could care less. But be damned sure if they will not use that excuse to deny them if they do not complete programs!!

And we definitely know all about CR dates for sure, my husband is very knowledgeable about his time and when he can come home, trust me! LOL Just to recap for you, He is a VO and was given a 12.5-25 BID and he will be released on his CR date, which we know is 65% or two thirds of 25…if he does not get any tickets which he has not in like over 10 years.

And yes, guys with FLAT bids can come home after 85% of there time served. If they behave and get not tickets of course, I do not know why you said it is rare, is it really? And I have never heard of it as a Zip bid, but then again, this has nothing to do with my husband, so I guess this is why I never heard of it. But I do know a guy, from a friend who is serving 10 flat and he will get out in 8.5 years.

And yes, it is true that parole reversal is very rare and most guys do not even appeal, my husband never did. Yet, it is not impossible because in the case I am talking about, the man had 15-25 and he was a VO, and on his second try he won his appeal. He was college educated and never had a ticket in all 15 years.

My point was only that Tammy should not lose hope, because anything can happen and they will eventually release him, they have let VO’s out in NY who had high profile Violent crimes, who no one thought would ever get out, like Cathy Boudin, and I know guys who have been let out with life at the end, YES, it is almost impossible for them to get out, but they do! And my husband knows a VO who was let out on his first Parole, so again, you never know. Right? Yes, we must be realistic and we all know in NY pataki has made it hell for inmates!!

But to be honest, even if you know all of this, and are very realistic when you go to the board, it still hurts when they deny you, it hurts A lot
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Old 09-24-2004, 08:06 PM
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As far as flat/zip bids. You are not going to see many people with those type of bids. If you find a person in NYS serving a bid like that, it would be very very rare
Not so... A LOT of repeat violent offenders are given flat bids (deteriminate sentences) now-a-days.
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Old 09-24-2004, 08:13 PM
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Hmmm,

Well, "flat" bids as they may be called by some people are called zip bids by convicts. If you take a look at the latest sentence guidelines, Well, "flat" bids as they may be called by some people are called zip bids by convicts. If you take a look at the latest sentence guidelines, you will Hardly see the "flat" bid sentencing anymore. (maybe some people are confused on what flat/zip bids really are). But, they reconstructured the sentencing guidelines, making it so a minimum date has to be set. I'm sure there are some older inmates doing flat bids (maybe not). But, they Rarely sentence people to flat bids aka zip bids these days.
(at lease I have not seen many people with them in my 18 years of working inside and outside of docs, I am sure they maybe some cases that have "flat" bids, your best bet, if you want to see if it is the norm is to simply go to the DOCS website and I can almost guarantee you that any inmate you look up will have a minimum number and a maximum number on his bid).
.

Now, I have seen a few men get released on their first board with a 15 to life bid for MURDER! So, please don't give up hope. I know it is hard and it is a nightmare for both you and your mate not knowing your fate. People with life on the back are in limbo. Because, they don't know their fate and that can be maddening. I have see dudes with 2 to life. The reason they had to have life on the end is because they had three violent felonies. The dude I knew that had 2 to life simply had a gun and he had two prior convictions for violent crimes. The gun charge was considered violent because, it was a plea bargain. The dude was going to use the gun to commit a robbery.
Then you have nonviolent first time offenders that have 3 to life, 5 to life, 10 to life, etc.; The reason for that, is because of the good ole Rockefeller law. That means, the convict had more than a half kilo of cocaine or a lot of heroin for sale and it is mandatory life on the end for that type of weight. Those men make their first boards most of the time and after ten years on parole with no violations, their life parole ends. So, if a man is on life parole and does not get into trouble in ten years during his parole status. The parole stops and you are free of parole supervision.

12 and a half to 25, hmmmmm?
Well, based on the bid he is a second time felony offender. Otherwise, he would have got an 8 and one-third to 25. But, the C.R date is the same on that. So if you have a predicate violent offender, the way Pataki set up things, he has made it so VO's have a very hard time getting out on their first board and he pushes the board to make a violent inmate do as much time as possible.
Before Pataki, there used to be a law that prevented the parole board from hitting a man more than 3 times with 2 year hits. Because, the board was abusing their power. I have not studied law recently and these laws are always changing. The board had a 3 hit limit unless they could justify continuing hitting an inmate with 2 years. I knew a dude that was in prison for Arson and not one parole board member would sign his release papers, he had a strange bid, he had two, 2 and one-third to 7 year bids...making his bid 4 and two-thirds to 14, He had to CR on that.
A short while back, the parole board was able to hit an inmate for more than 2 years. The board was hitting guys with 5 years and after doing the 5, they would hit him again with another 5 or 7 or 3 years. So, thank God they changed that law.

Anyhow, anything is possible...I have seen a lot of things happen. I have seen dudes doing 15 to life and get out on their first board and this was during the Pataki years, it was not the norm. But, like I said...anything can happen. So, if anyone has a loved one with no end number. Please DO NOT give up hope. They have to let him out. Maybe it will be on the first board and if he was really young when the crime was committed, they will take that into consideration. I have seen young men grow up in prison and turn out to be good guys that were a good risk for parole. Sometimes the board might feel an inmate was given too much time in the court room and they make up for it by releasing him to parole supervision, with a set of strict rules and the rules will lighten up as he readjusts to being free.

Let me stop here.

The Bottom line is.
[size=3]Don't give up and keep the faith. If your loved one is not on Death Row. Then count your blessings. Because, there is always someone that has it worse. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes it is dime at times. But, it is always there.
God Bless!
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Last edited by Manzanita; 09-26-2004 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 09-24-2004, 08:17 PM
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I think they ended those in the early 80's.
No, they did not. My brother-in-law as well as 3 of his friends are all serving flat bids and none of them have been in prison on these bids longer then 5 years!
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Old 09-24-2004, 08:19 PM
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No, they did not. My brother-in-law as well as 3 of his friends are all serving flat bids and none of them have been in prison on these bids longer then 5 years!
Must be something that they changed. I have not seen this in NYC courts though. As I stated. I have not worked in the law library in a very long time.
If it is still being used, it is not the norm. Because, if you go to the DOCS website, you will see at least 95% if not more inmates, that have a minimum number and a maximum number on their bid. I just looked and I could not find one flat bid by reviewing hundreds of inmates bids. So, it is rare.


However, I do believe you.
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Old 09-24-2004, 08:25 PM
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My fiance just got hit at his Merit Board. He'll make a reappearance at the board ( actually it's considered his initial appearance)in January 2005. If granted, his released date will be March 18,2005. This is his second felony (non-violent) did ASAT, got his Certificate of Earned Eligibility, did every program possible and still was denied. This bid is a 2 to 4 with a CR date of Nov. 2005. Hoping for the best,but you never know how the board thinks. Currently incarcerated in Riverview CF N.Y.but been approved for a transfer and should be on the draft soon awaiting a ride-out to a facility in the Wende Hub. I hear that Riverview is going to start accepting more parole violaters and is redirecting inmates to other facilities, from what I've heard inmate movement there is picking up. I know my guy is being transferred cause he really doesn't need to be in a Program prison anymore and hopefully go to Livingston CF more of a gen. pop. prison. I'm in Rochester, N.Y. so I'll finally get to see him.
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Old 09-25-2004, 05:24 AM
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Mrs.G i have a question for u. Bub got 1 /13- 4 yrs, for Violation of probation he was on it for a dwi, he violated by not paying 2,000 fine, that is paid now, he went in front of the merit board back when he was still in reception in elemira, got denied, it has to do dwi classes now in gownada which is 6 mon long(3 classes 2 months long) anyways he goes up in front of the board in dec. what is ur opioan on this i have never had to worry about this, he is in the 2 phase of his classes. thanks for anything u can think of .. GOD BLESS YA'll
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Old 09-25-2004, 05:02 PM
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OK.

After talking to Mrs. JV,

I found out what the confusion was in regard to the debate to the Flat bid aka Zip bid sentences.
She informed me that her loved one was NOT sentenced in the New York Boroughs. He was sentenced in the Albany area (upstate). Plus, being he is from or knows the upstate area, his friends are most likely from the upstate area as well. So, they have the same thing in common, they may have been sentenced upstate as well. NYC does not practice flat bid sentencing anymore or if they do it is very rare. But, the counties upstate still use it from time to time. Being most of the inmates in DOCS come from the metro NYC area...it is not the norm to see "flat" bids.
It is legal to use flat bids, it is up to the Judge. NYC just happens to go with a minimum term and a maximum term in most of it's cases.

So, this is where the confusion came in. If I had known he was sentenced outside of the city. It would have more sense to see an inmate with a flat/zip bid.
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Old 09-25-2004, 06:00 PM
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bubslildebil

I really do not know the answer to your question I am so sorry, I have not experienced this at all. Maybe Dave knows.
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Old 09-25-2004, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bubslildevil
Mrs.G i have a question for u. Bub got 1 /13- 4 yrs, for Violation of probation he was on it for a dwi, he violated by not paying 2,000 fine, that is paid now, he went in front of the merit board back when he was still in reception in elemira, got denied, it has to do dwi classes now in gownada which is 6 mon long(3 classes 2 months long) anyways he goes up in front of the board in dec. what is ur opioan on this i have never had to worry about this, he is in the 2 phase of his classes. thanks for anything u can think of .. GOD BLESS YA'll
So you said he is doing a one and one-third to 4 years. OK, that makes sense. Because he failed his probation, he most likely got 3 or 5 years probation to start with... right? Sometimes you have to do 6 months in jail before you do your 3 or 5 years probation sometimes not. So, being he violated his probation, he got the one and a third to 4 as a trade off. Thus, ending his probation in exchange for a state prison term.
Being the crime was not considered violent, he has a 50/50 chance of making his first board. The parole board can go either way on ALL of their decisions. But, they would rather free up the bed space for a violent offender, to put a violent offender in his place. If he takes Alcohol Substance Abuse Treatment (ASAT), that will help him ALOT. He is also a candidate for work release. If he has 32 points he can put in for it, this is also a way they free up bed space for violent offenders.

Anyhow, I would not really be too concerned about his board decision. His max is only 4 years. Some people don't even see their first board in 4 years...if not more. How I see it, is they are going to want to have him on parole supervision due to such a little bid he is doing. That way, if he messes up, they will simply violate him. If they hit him, then he can't be watched or guided as a parolee.
As I tell everyone. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. If they do hit him with 2 years, he will CR before the 2 year hit is up and he can still get work release.

Good Luck.
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