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  #1  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:54 PM
gemma_22 gemma_22 is offline
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Question TDCJ Ad Seg

Why would someone be put in ad seg for 4.5yrs? Does that mean they are a danger to others?
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:56 PM
niypiya niypiya is offline
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it doesn't necessarily mean that. It could be a preventitive measure, could be gang stuff, could be alot of things. NOT just that the person in Seg is a danger to others...
Someone will help answer you better I am sure.
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Old 12-06-2005, 12:58 PM
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Ok thanks just curious to why, it just seems alot of time!
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:02 PM
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My husband spent just under 4 years in the hole. It happens.
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:04 PM
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yeah i know it happens but im looking for reasons why?
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:59 PM
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gemma, one thing you have to remember is, Tx prisons are not run the same way as our UK ones. There is no HM Inspectorate to investigate malpractice, and the Wardens have a LOT more control over how things are run in individual units there. It could have been for something as simple as taking food from the kitchen and then mouthing off when he got caught. They dont have to explain why they do anything in TDC, and very little makes any real sense (unless you happen to be at the top of the pile).
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Old 12-06-2005, 04:22 PM
CenTexLyn CenTexLyn is offline
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AdSeg is a housing status that has different levels, with periodic reviews by the State Classification Committee...it is not simply a warden's discretion to place someone in Security Detention.

If one is a member of an identified security threat group (what used to be known simply as a gang), they can go in on Day 1 and be there for the duration of the incarceration.

Other placements are based on disciplinary actions involving assaultive conduct. Some of those placements may be in only long enough to go through the 180 days review but others may stay much longer, especially if they continue to act up while in seg.

There are three different levels of SecDet, with Security Detention Level 1 being the least restrictive. In the old days, it is what we would have called Ad Seg Group B. SecDet 2 and 3 are more closely related to Ad Seg Group A, with SecDet 3 being very similar in nature to the management cells such as they had at the end of A-wing at Eastham or the placements on B4-2 row at Wynne back in the 80's.

If someone has been in Seg for more than four years, they are either gang related, committed a very egregious act of misconduct in population (ie. homicide or escape) or they have continued to commit disciplinary infractions while in SecDet.
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Old 12-06-2005, 04:25 PM
gemma_22 gemma_22 is offline
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Thankyou for answering my question!! It has helped alot.
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Old 12-07-2005, 02:01 AM
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There are other reasons one can stay in seg for that length of time. Refusing to work. Refusing to cut you hair or shave. Retaliation for writ-writing activities. The latter usually end up in High Security Units (HSU) better known as supermax units, which are nothing more than window-less monkey cages where prisoners are subjected to sensory deprivation of the cruelest sort. It isn't just STG's or "the baddest of the bad" that end up there. Lot's of mentally-ill prisoners are caged in HSU. If you're too political you can end up there too. That's the new trend in U.S. incarceration methods. Abu Ghraib happens in Texas and America everyday. Just an aside: UCC and disciplinary hearings are nothing more than kangaroo courts, and anybody who claims they are impartial, in anyway seriously interested in the truth, or protection from the abuse of ad-seg as a punishment certainly doesn't know the reality.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nail Pounder
There are other reasons one can stay in seg for that length of time. Refusing to work. Refusing to cut you hair or shave.
There is no work assignment for those in SecDet, so there is no disciplinary for that infraction while in SecDet. There is no question that it can contribute to a LC III status with an LOP status in GP, but why confuse people with facts.

As to the refusing to groom...those can contribute to someone not getting status back while in SecDet. It isn't that difficult to maintain compliance with grooming standards, and generally speaking, at least in my years with the agency, the ones that refused to groom generally created other problems as well that contributed to their ongoing status in SecDet.
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Old 12-07-2005, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexLyn
There is no work assignment for those in SecDet, so there is no disciplinary for that infraction while in SecDet. There is no question that it can contribute to a LC III status with an LOP status in GP, but why confuse people with facts.

As to the refusing to groom...those can contribute to someone not getting status back while in SecDet. It isn't that difficult to maintain compliance with grooming standards, and generally speaking, at least in my years with the agency, the ones that refused to groom generally created other problems as well that contributed to their ongoing status in SecDet.
So you're telling me that TDCJ doesn't put prisoners in ad seg for refusing to cut their hair or refusing to work? Because I think you're the one confusing people if you make such a claim.
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:46 PM
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Ya'll are gonna run off one of the greatest sources of information you have jumping on Lynn. She is correct. Grooming or refusing to work is LOP (Loss of privledges) which is not seg. It is a temp confinement to a cell for a short while. If after the sentence is up the person decides to comply then they are released. If they do not comply they go back in LOP.

One she did leave out is Protective Custody. An offender can be put in protective custody for their own safety.
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:06 PM
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I know it does happen that they do get put in ad seg for refusing to groom according to tdcj rules. I know it has for a fact cause it has happened to someone I write to. It depends on the unit and what the inmate disciplinary history. I have had everyone that I write be on LOP, they are not moved to a different location in the unit, they get a written paper telling them how long they can't do what ever they are punished for, 45 days of no rec and 45 days of no commissary is LOP. Not all tdcj unit are the same and deal with the inmates differently.

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Old 12-09-2005, 08:37 PM
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The day I was released from the Walls there were several others discharging along with me who during their entire time in TDCJ refused to work and refused to cut their hair and a couple had facial hair. They had spent their entire time in seg. I'm not making this stuff up. Look at the disciplinary handbook, AD 03.83, AD 03.70. If you are Rastifarian, Native American or for whatever reason you absolutely refuse to comply with the TDCJ grooming standards you will end up in seg. Some prisoners doing agg time figure they have no reason to work TDCJ slave labor jobs and they too end up in seg. TDCJ considers them disruptive to the order of the institution and will remove them from gp. That is a fact. I'm not jumping on Lynn, she is the one accusing me of confusing the facts. I know what a sham the disciplinary procedures are, I lived it. I'm going to speak the truth of what I saw and experienced first-hand. No I'm not a diplomat at all. I could fill up a book with all the staff violations of rules and statutes. Admin doesn't care, you'll get your grievance back denied 99.9 percent of the time.
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2005, 08:19 AM
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There is a Native American, Iron Thunderhorse, who is in the Ad Seg cell in the Polunsky Unit, and has been there for years, undergoing horrible abuse because he refuses to cut his hair. Read his story. Google "Iron Thunderhorse" and be grateful your man isn't undergoing this treatment!
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  #16  
Old 12-10-2005, 11:10 AM
gemma_22 gemma_22 is offline
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I just read about iron thunderhorse and it brought a tear to my eye.You just wish there was more you could do to help!
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Old 12-10-2005, 11:22 AM
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LOP for not working or not grooming is not the same as AdSeg no matter how one tries to spin it.

As to Coppola's (AKA Thunderhorse, and it IS an AKA) situation, I find it interesting how quickly the Harris County incident gets buried in the information on the web. When he was at Wynee in the 80's, he didn't get to B4-2 row simply by not grooming. Similarly, when he returned to TDCJ custody after the Escape that resulted in the wounding in Houston, he did not get to seg simply by not grooming. And, strictly speaking, his past history in AdSeg coupled with the facts of the escape attempt were sufficient to have justified the placement in SecDet on their own...

SCC WILL NOT approve the placement of someone in Security Detention solely for not grooming or not working. Even Coppola will tell you the same thing if you actually asked for an honest, off the record opinion. LOP management pursuant to the disciplinary procedures IS NOT the same as Security Detention.
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Old 12-10-2005, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdawg21
One she did leave out is Protective Custody. An offender can be put in protective custody for their own safety.
Although the true Protective Custody (ala NPC at Eastham and the cells in Navasota and at Ramsey) are under the auspices of the Security Detention guidelines, most people in that environment are not complaining about the placement. They often specifically bargained for it in exchange for their testimony or in those instances where it was known before someone even got to the agency that additional security precautions would be required (ie. the clearing of the hallways to even bring someone out through the double doors required to even get to the hallway). Given that scenario, I was trying not to add additional confusion to the equation, particularly since those cells exist only in a few selected parts of the State.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:02 AM
Linda.V Linda.V is offline
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My guy is in there for the rest of his life, for being a gangmember
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Old 12-18-2005, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txsfmhstn
I know it does happen that they do get put in ad seg for refusing to groom according to tdcj rules. I know it has for a fact cause it has happened to someone I write to. It depends on the unit and what the inmate disciplinary history. I have had everyone that I write be on LOP, they are not moved to a different location in the unit, they get a written paper telling them how long they can't do what ever they are punished for, 45 days of no rec and 45 days of no commissary is LOP. Not all tdcj unit are the same and deal with the inmates differently.


Incorrect. Under LOP status an offender is relocated to a certain housing section. The offender does not leave the cell for rec, chow, comm.,church,anything but medical and shower. LOP is considered on major dispininarys only. Winchesters (so called because they usually get 30 comm/30 cell restriction, hence 30/30) are usually given as punishment on minor cases. Offenders must still go to work. They are not allowed in the dayroom except when being staged for a turnout. Staging itself is not supposed to happen but......
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Old 12-18-2005, 08:31 PM
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What does stage mean?
My guy refused to go to work and he got a case against him. He then started acting up with the CO and they put him in solitary confinement and took all his personal belongings aways. I guess that would mean loss of privledges! He just wrote me and said he was in solitary and to write him everyday if I could and to send him some puzzles and stuff!
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Old 12-19-2005, 07:40 AM
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Default Further mud in the water

Loss of privileges LOP covers a variety of "punishments". A Winchester refers to a relatively minor infraction (trying to sneak back into the chow hall on fried chicken day for seconds), for which the inmate would lose gym-rec and commissary privileges for a month. They still go to work, school, have day-room privileges, etc.
Technically, those placed in Ad Seg "lose privileges", it's a much more serious thing, that usually includes a drop in class, physical restriction, eating Johnnies and no commissary.

And Doodlebop, why should you have to suffer because he decided to buck?
Sounds like he brought on his fate, so should get to experience it. The longer he fights it, the longer it will be before he comes home and takes care of business.
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Old 12-19-2005, 10:02 PM
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Trust me I dont suffer! I send what I want when I feel like sending it!
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:53 PM
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My husband has been in ad seg for going on almost 7 years. It was because he wanted to better himself, and get out of the gang life. It was of his choice to not spend more time than he has to already.
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Old 03-02-2006, 03:35 PM
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they are usally put in SEG cause they are a threat to the general population, or mainly cause of gang affiliation.
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