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  #51  
Old 06-17-2018, 08:19 PM
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xolady, you're not paying taxes for them - they're paying their own way. But you are going to have one whale of a deficit, because your taxes are now going to the Mercer family and the Koch brothers, and the Romneys and Bushes (courtesy of our newest tax law), not schools, or immigrants (aka 'people') or healthcare or any other damn thing. More money to buy off more politicians.
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  #52  
Old 06-17-2018, 09:03 PM
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That's what I don't get about these xenophobic arguments. Without a steady stream of immigrants coming into this country, the Social Security Trust Funds would have been depleted by now.

Didn't you say you are on disability, xolady? If you don't want to see your government checks start shrinking, we best not destroy the tax base that funds them. All those undocumented workers with their fake Social Security Numbers are still contributing to the system.

With the American birth-rate falling so low now, there's no way we can support an aging population drawing Social Security retirement benefits, without a constant supply of fresh new workers coming in. These people are contributing far more than they are taking away from the system. Especially if we quit locking them up en masse in detainment facilities.

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  #53  
Old 06-18-2018, 07:43 AM
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Former first lady Laura Bush calls zero-tolerance immigration policy 'cruel' and 'immoral'
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  #54  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:09 AM
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For all of your information I am on SSDI I paid into Social security from the time I was 15 years old. So I put in my time and I didn't get it from being a drug addict or drunk!!! I had and still have 3 autoimmune disorders. I still worked even after getting SSDI so I could pay my medical and buy food. Oh and for everyone's information I donate my time and money to help the elderly and the poor. I do what I can even go with out to help others. I used to get mad that others got food stamps and did nothing to deserve them now I just shake my head and move on. There are better ways to help then supply illegals with the newest and the best of everything, while the people who slaved for years working in menial jobs get shit on by their own country!!!
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  #55  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:34 AM
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Default Tent cities in the Texas sun for separated children

Who is supplying illegals (aka people) with the best and newest of everything?
This is a discussion about children babies and toddlers being taken from their parents and locked in cages inside tents. That isn’t giving anyone the best of everything.
No one is stealing your social security checks.
Migrants on the whole contribute more than they take they work in low paid jobs and pay tax with no refund.
Northern Europe like the USA has a pensions time bomb. A rapidly aging population which will soon out number the working population. Low birth rates also exasperate the situation. Your social security checks are paid for by today’s workers there is no pot of money sitting waiting for us from our past contributions.
When the working population is not sufficient to fund pensions and welfare that is when benefits may have to decrease and you may see cuts in your checks.
Migrants (people ) are not going to take your checks. The answer is not to incarcerate babies to protect your checks but to vote in politicians who are pro a fair tax system where large corporations and the mega rich pay their share as at the moment they do not.
Also looking at a fair system of work permits to provide workers for the future in a fair and sustainable way.
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  #56  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maytayah View Post
Who is supplying illegals (aka people) with the best and newest of everything?
This is a discussion about children babies and toddlers being taken from their parents and locked in cages inside tents. That isn’t giving anyone the best of everything.
No one is stealing your social security checks.
Migrants on the whole contribute more than they take they work in low paid jobs and pay tax with no refund.
Northern Europe like the USA has a pensions time bomb. A rapidly aging population which will soon out number the working population. Low birth rates also exasperate the situation. Your social security checks are paid for by today’s workers there is no pot of money sitting waiting for us from our past contributions.
When the working population is not sufficient to fund pensions and welfare that is when benefits may have to decrease and you may see cuts in your checks.
Migrants (people ) are not going to take your checks. The answer is not to incarcerate babies to protect your checks but to vote in politicians who are pro a fair tax system where large corporations and the mega rich pay their share as at the moment they do not.
Also looking at a fair system of work permits to provide workers for the future in a fair and sustainable way.
First of all you aren't a US citizen so don't tell me where my tax money goes, I did payroll for 30 years and believe I'm a bit more knowledgeable then someone who isn't even a US citizen. Immigrants not just illegal immigrants are a drain on our system. Keep this thread on track and it's about ILLEGALS not some poor innocent what ever. There are plenty of these so called innocents that would just as soon kill you as befriend you!!! Maybe you should go work at a detention center for these kids and see what they have and what the average family has!!!
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  #57  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:12 AM
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So you think that a large percentage of immigrants (legal or illegal) are just coming here to kill Americans? Where do you get this stuff? The crime rate among immigrants is tens of percent below that of 'native' Americans!

And I've worked with illegals for years upon years, in restaurants, in the horse business and in sundry other jobs. They were almost always paid under the table, they had almost all come here because the situations in their home countries were deadly. Not one of them was ever less than hardworking, helpful, friendly, and pleasant. We're talking dozens of people from different countries (from Ireland to Chile), and every one of them was more legal in their behavior than most of my legal American workers. None ever tried to harm me, none stole from me or injured me. Much more than I can say for the 'natives' :-(

One more thing, a quote from the Bible that Jeffy loves so much - Suffer the little children to come unto me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:16 AM
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This has gotten absolutely absurd. This post is about CHILDREN who had no say in coming to America, legal or not. This is about CHILDREN who have to be protected because to do anything else is disgustingly unethical.
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  #59  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
First of all you aren't a US citizen so don't tell me where my tax money goes, I did payroll for 30 years and believe I'm a bit more knowledgeable then someone who isn't even a US citizen. Immigrants not just illegal immigrants are a drain on our system. Keep this thread on track and it's about ILLEGALS not some poor innocent what ever. There are plenty of these so called innocents that would just as soon kill you as befriend you!!! Maybe you should go work at a detention center for these kids and see what they have and what the average family has!!!
No I am not American and I don't need to be American to understand economics or challenge bigotry when I see it.

I understand fear drives a lot of the blame and misunderstanding.You must be very afraid to hold the view thats its ok to incarcerate children in case they steal your checks or kill you? Come on man!

So you think these babies toddlers and children would kill me if they had the chance. Batter me with a stuffed animal?
Really love, I dont think so , I dont need to work in a detention camp to know that separating children from their families and incarcerating babies , toddlers and children is plain wrong however you try and justify it.
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  #60  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:38 AM
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Immigrants not just illegal immigrants are a drain on our system. Keep this thread on track and it's about ILLEGALS not some poor innocent what ever. There are plenty of these so called innocents that would just as soon kill you as befriend you!!! Maybe you should go work at a detention center for these kids and see what they have and what the average family has!!!

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  #61  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:48 AM
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while the people who slaved for years working in menial jobs get shit on by their own country!!!
If you're pissed off at our government, then shouldn't your venom be channeled into addressing that? When was the last time you wrote a letter to your congress person addressing the crumbling social security structure? When you vote, do you investigate the voting history of your senator or congress person of choice? When you vote for president, do you thoroughly vet them for being pro-socialism? Because that's what SSI, SSDI and SS retirement are.

Just curious what you do to better your country's political system in addition to ranting at immigrants.
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  #62  
Old 06-18-2018, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
Immigrants not just illegal immigrants are a drain on our system. Keep this thread on track and it's about ILLEGALS not some poor innocent what ever. There are plenty of these so called innocents that would just as soon kill you as befriend you!!!
Wow wow wow wow.

The hate and the bigotry is so STRONG with this one.

I'm amazed that, with a husband in prison and thousands of whiny-assed posts asking for sympathy here, you are so completely lacking in empathy for others in need.
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  #63  
Old 06-18-2018, 12:24 PM
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First of all you aren't a US citizen so don't tell me where my tax money goes, I did payroll for 30 years and believe I'm a bit more knowledgeable then someone who isn't even a US citizen.
Ok, so I was in the shower mulling this topic over, checking myself to make sure I'm being reasonable and approaching this from an equally logical point of view as well as emotional and I literally had a laugh-out-loud moment thinking about this statement.

This statement perfectly encapsulates what's wrong with your thinking. You don't know anything about Maytayah except she's not a US citizen therefore she's designated to the ignorant column. Except...and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, Maytayah...
She owns property here. She travels extensively in the US every year. That means she pays property taxes and sales tax. When she's here, she frequents our retailers, adding to the local economy. And yet at the end of the day, she gets zip back in the form of social programs. No retirement, no disability, no refund.

She, TOO, supports your SSDI and Medicare and roads and senators and schools. And yet you scream at her that she doesn't have a say in this.

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  #64  
Old 06-18-2018, 01:13 PM
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Thank you Miamac.

Migrants are not just coming from Mexico there is a lot migration from Europe but I dont see you ranting about those entering the USA from the UK, Ireland, Scandinavia and mainland Europe. I wonder why that is? ,I am sure there are many undocumented migrants from those countries also. However none of them seem to be rounded up families separated and children put in tent prisons.

Quote:
Immigrants not just illegal immigrants are a drain on our system.
Really what about the doctors, nurses, scientists, international banks, international companies and investors are they all a drain on your economy? Those that bringing in your crops and support your service industries are they a drain?

i could be a migrant of I wanted to be, Its true I have a very successful company and I own properties in the USA and in the UK. I would bring a lot with me if I decided to move. I would not be a drain on anyone. Quite the opposite the more property I buy as a socially responsible landlord the more American citizens benefit. The more tax I pay (I pay a lot in the USA already ) the more $ i spend again Americans benefit. I contribute my tourist $ every time I visit and I insist that the real estate agents and lawyers I deal with contribute to the charity organisations I help support in several states.

I will be staying here in the UK though I like our free health care , free college education and prison reform (no death penalty or LWOP)

I am not ignorant and I am not irrelevant and neither is anyone else purely because they werent born in the USA.

You see not all migrants want to kill you , most (by far the most) want to contribute and work hard. In the Uk and I am sure in the USA there are businesses built by migrants who offer local employment and wealth paying back to the communities who offered them sanctuary when they needed it.
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  #65  
Old 06-18-2018, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
First of all you aren't a US citizen so don't tell me where my tax money goes, I did payroll for 30 years and believe I'm a bit more knowledgeable then someone who isn't even a US citizen. Immigrants not just illegal immigrants are a drain on our system. Keep this thread on track and it's about ILLEGALS not some poor innocent what ever. There are plenty of these so called innocents that would just as soon kill you as befriend you!!! Maybe you should go work at a detention center for these kids and see what they have and what the average family has!!!
Well aren’t you the entitled one. This thread has nothing to do with illegal immigrants being a drain on our system. It has to do with having compassion for children, due to no fault of their own, are being ripped apart from their parents. No one is taking anything away from you. Trust me, you aren’t going to get more money whether we let them in or not.

I did payroll for years too. All that taught me was what address to send the money to. I’m curious how that taught you all about the statistics of how illegals are draining the SS system.
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  #66  
Old 06-18-2018, 01:59 PM
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This is not trying to derail a thread that has nothing to do with me. But, I am saddened to see such negative thoughts in regards to immigrants, both legal and illegal.

I was a small child during the break-up of Yugoslavia. There were over 2 million displaced people and refugees crossed borders to Germany, Austria, Hungary and Sweden. Some had to end up in protected area refugee camps and there are actually people still living in these because they won’t return home. The idea of home was destroyed. The camps they live in are of much lesser quality than offered to these children but that is a moot point.

It is obvious I don’t remember much of the war except for fear and being hungry. One memory stands in my mind though and because of it, my heart aches for these children.

My mother left the house to trade some food with a neighbor. I was out playing out back so I didn’t hear her yell she would be back in a few minutes. I went into the house and my mother was gone. I screamed and cried because I thought my mother was gone forever. People were leaving our area [at the time, I didn’t know why, now, as an adult, I know it was „ethnic cleansing“ and there was a rape camp.] Even if this current situation is for legislators to decide, and those more educated than I, it is bothering to know children know such separation. I do not argue for policy to be made by emotions but wow ....

We couldn’t leave at that time but we were lucky. Lucky in the fact that in ‘92 paramilitaries [Serbian] had control of our area and as ethnic Serbs, would not face what many did. Do you know how uncomfortable it is that those convicted of war crimes were your protectors and heroes? But our area was burned and destroyed, still with scars.

This happened awhile ago but effects are still there. There is poverty, very high unemployment and a lot of infrastructure has not been replaced. And now, political divisions are starting again. Countries in Latin America have similar stories so I understand, at the basic level, why they leave. And sadly yes, take their children on a perilous route with an uncertain future.

So, I am a legal immigrant cause I knew there are better opportunities abroad. We were eligible for refugee status [still] but I came over as a skilled applicant ... like a lot of people. I found work and pay taxes. Try to be a contributor to my community. It can be argued I have been a strain on the system for one reason. I acknowledge that but it was not my intention when I came over.

But you know, I believe in laws and looking after a state’s citizens first. If a prosperous nation’s funds are managed properly, and without ideology [not going to happen I know] all can receive the services they need. It’s not my place to tell the USA how to fund their budget and border control. But do we have to eat each other and pick on those a class below us?

But, many people in developed countries don’t know what it’s like to be in dangerous situations through no fault of their own besides their location. I know there are gang issues and bad neighbourhoods but I mean danger / fear onba mass scale. People in all places want the same things: stability and a good future for their kids. It’s sad that people have to argue over this instead of collective lobbying for better solutions.
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:26 PM
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Well, now that this thread has degenerated into everything and anything in between, let me say this. The original topic is here:


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...213026379.html

Quote:
The Department of Health and Human Services will visit Fort Bliss, a sprawling Army base near El Paso in the coming weeks to look at a parcel of land where the administration is considering building a tent city to hold between 1,000 and 5,000 children, according to U.S. officials and other sources familiar with the plans.
“Considering”, so far, nothing definite. But apparently they're running out of space in facilities like this one:
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...x1gzubamhe.jpg
Now, with that in mind, can we get it On Topic?

This is the way I see it, bottom line:
There is a legal way, and an illegal way to get into the USA. If you do some checking around, other countries are the same way, and some WAY more stringent than the USA.
However, in spite of the fact that the parents came here illegally with their children, also illegal, to separate these kids from their parents is just wrong.

It's a moral dilemma that we should all be concerned about.

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Old 06-19-2018, 02:31 AM
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Nobody forced those parents to come at this moment under these circumstances. If you hear you will lose your kids to the system be a responsible parent and return to where you came from, or move on and let your children suffer the consequences, which to me would sound like a case of bad parenting.
Which parent would want their kids to suffer because of the choices THEY made??????
I do feel sorry for those kids but don't blame the wrong people those kids aren't there because of the administration of your country but because their parents made a bad decision.
Why do those parents think they can beat the system................. Somebody will have told them a story........... figure out who did or witch party and you will have your perp.
It might be a political play, with victims that are used and abused to gain what that party can't get done legally. Just my ideas on the subject
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:54 AM
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Wow wow wow wow.

The hate and the bigotry is so STRONG with this one.

I'm amazed that, with a husband in prison and thousands of whiny-assed posts asking for sympathy here, you are so completely lacking in empathy for others in need.
My husband died due to lack of decent medical care in prison, so if you think my posts are whiny-assed asking for sympathy here your dead wrong. I am not a bigot and I'm not full of malice. Illegals are criminals and that is my point. When we let in one family and keep them together in any sort of detention center then we have to take them all then its as if we have no borders. They take kids from parents all the time, ask anyone who's been arrested if they had a choice about where their kids were taken. My whole point of this is all you who have family or loved ones in prison seem not to give a damn about their living conditions. I on the other hand do and hate that my husband who wasn't any better then anyone else got treated worse then any illegal as he had less rights and almost no care.
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Old 06-19-2018, 06:46 AM
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It is cruel and immoral. No child should be in a cage. Period!
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:33 AM
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My husband died due to lack of decent medical care in prison, so if you think my posts are whiny-assed asking for sympathy here your dead wrong. I am not a bigot and I'm not full of malice. Illegals are criminals and that is my point. When we let in one family and keep them together in any sort of detention center then we have to take them all then its as if we have no borders. They take kids from parents all the time, ask anyone who's been arrested if they had a choice about where their kids were taken. My whole point of this is all you who have family or loved ones in prison seem not to give a damn about their living conditions. I on the other hand do and hate that my husband who wasn't any better then anyone else got treated worse then any illegal as he had less rights and almost no care.
If this is your point it’s not a very good one. I haven’t seen anyone say they don’t give a damn about the living conditions of our loved ones in prison. In fact, there are hundreds of posts that show “all of us” DO care about the living conditions. I’m terribly sorry that your husband has died and for the treatment he received but that is a whole separate issue. I hope you find a way to get some peace because I’ve seen you turn into a bitter woman that has no empathy for anyone but yourself. Your posts are getting angrier and angrier. Yes, illegals are breaking the law but they aren’t criminals and the children are suffering.
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:45 AM
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Nobody forced those parents to come at this moment under these circumstances. If you hear you will lose your kids to the system be a responsible parent and return to where you came from, or move on and let your children suffer the consequences, which to me would sound like a case of bad parenting.
Which parent would want their kids to suffer because of the choices THEY made??????
I do feel sorry for those kids but don't blame the wrong people those kids aren't there because of the administration of your country but because their parents made a bad decision.
Why do those parents think they can beat the system................. Somebody will have told them a story........... figure out who did or witch party and you will have your perp.
It might be a political play, with victims that are used and abused to gain what that party can't get done legally. Just my ideas on the subject
So is every homeless person a bad parent because of the choices they made? Is every inmate a bad parent because of the choices they made? Should children suffer because of the choices of their parents? It’s so easy to say I feel sorry for them but oh well. It’s a cold attitude to have.
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Raf's Girl View Post
Nobody forced those parents to come at this moment under these circumstances. If you hear you will lose your kids to the system be a responsible parent and return to where you came from, or move on and let your children suffer the consequences, which to me would sound like a case of bad parenting.
They do feel forced and they feel it would be bad, if not fatal, parenting to stay where they are. It seems a lot of people are responding without an understanding of what's happening around the world and in this case, because of proximity, what's happening in Latin America. I mean what's really happening-- not the stereotype that they're just trying to get a better job. While that's true for some, there are political wars being played out right now that because of our own self-interest and circumstances, US citizens appear to be ignorant of.

Are the majority of people reading this completely unaware that folks coming from Central and South America suffer through Mexico to get here? They're frequently killed, robbed, extorted, kidnapped, sold, raped trying to get here. If you can read a message board, you can read a short article on what's happening around you.

Google is your friend--

civil war-Venezuela-Colombia
poverty-corruption-Mexico
Or heck, I'll do it for you...Easy Prey: Criminal Violence and Central American Migration


And because this thread is heavy with negativity, I want to have an Anne Frank moment (please, God, tell me you know who she is and why her quote matters because there are literally millions of Franks around us) and believe that people are still good.

Las Patronas: The Mexican women helping migrants
Humane Borders

Please. Please. Educate yourself. You are being fed misinformation and patriotic bullshit that is going to rip us apart. If you have children or know a child, think of the repercussions of allowing them to grow up in violence-- anywhere, and then tell me what defines bad parenting.

Last edited by miamac; 06-19-2018 at 12:27 PM.. Reason: missed a word
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:01 PM
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This poem is now the rallying call for refugees: “No one leaves home unless home is the mouth of a shark”

Home
by Warsan Shire

no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well

your neighbors running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won’t let you stay.

no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it’s not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilet
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn’t be going back.

you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied


no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough

the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
niggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off
or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.


i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important

no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i’ve become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here

Last edited by miamac; 06-19-2018 at 01:08 PM..
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  #75  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:37 PM
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That is heart-stopping, mia. I haven't left home for exactly those reasons, because I'm old and white and relatively safe!
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