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Criminal Immigration Issues Dealing with INS and other related issues.

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  #26  
Old 06-16-2018, 01:26 PM
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Safran, it's not that - it's that they are trying to apply for asylum, not sneak into the country! But they're deliberately being blocked from doing it. Not being conversant with the nuances of US law, they go sideways in their attempt to claim asylum.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:40 PM
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This my last comment on this, but it looks as if Mexico grants asylum to ALL that ask for it and yet so many walked all the way through Mexico to try for asylum here. Why is that especially when gang and spousal abuse aren’t grounds for asylum as things stand now?

But what is Mexico’s responsibility here?

Alfonso Lopez de la Osa Escribano is director of the Center for U.S. and Mexican Law at the University of Houston Law Center. He said Mexico’s policy, updated in 2016, grants asylum to anyone who seeks it.

Lopez de la Osa Escribano said that because economic refugees and asylum-seekers travel the same paths as they seek to emigrate, telling the difference between the two kinds of migrants is difficult, and requires the government to assess them on a case-by-case basis.

“To ask for asylum is a voluntary procedure,” Lopez de la Osa Escribano said. “If these persons [do] not start the procedure in Mexico… The Mexican government can do nothing, in that sense.”

Lopez de la Osa Escribano said the ideal solution would be for the Mexican and U.S. governments to collaborate on an approach to asylum policy.
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  #28  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:27 PM
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In Europe the policy is that asylum seekers should apply for asylum in the first safe country they come to. This has meant that Spain, Italy and Greece have become over whelmed by migrants crossing from Africa. Therefore migrants move onto northern europe across land.
i am not suggesting there are no borders but those who cross they should be treated fairly and humanely.
There is no "better way" of separating children from their families and locking them up. The only better way is not to do it. Instead families should be held in immigration centres together while there cases are reviewed and if found not to have legitimate claims to asylum them deport them together.
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  #29  
Old 06-16-2018, 06:00 PM
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Does that mean that Mexico grants Mexican asylum to everyone who requests it? If so, that has absolutely nothing to do with asylum seekers applying to the United States. Sessions latest edict to the "Immigration judges" who apparently work for the Department of Justice, not the federal court system, was apparently limited to "you will not grant asylum to anyone who uses fear, or proof of gang or domestic violence as their reason for applying".

By the way, even George W Bush and John Ashcroft refused to allow ICE to take children away from their families, calling it inhumane, but that policy was also just rescinded by this administration.
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Old 06-16-2018, 07:13 PM
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Even Alberto Gonzales thinks this is a made-up problem.
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Old 06-16-2018, 08:26 PM
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In the latest proposal the tents will be air conditioned.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:16 AM
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In a country that can't even support our own people. We should not even be entertaining the thought of taking in any refugees.
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  #33  
Old 06-17-2018, 09:52 AM
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So wrong, xo! We could take care of our own, but we have this still-puritanical outlook (some of us, not me) that if you're in a bad spot then you've earned it. We don't fund our schools the way we should not because there's no money, but because we never wanted catholics to have a say in the school system so we made it all local taxes. We blame the mentally ill for their situations, but we don't fund mental healthcare. We could. There are so many alternate ways of setting up systems, but we have this blame-oriented mind-set as a nation that penalizes those who haven't been rewarded by the 'prosperity gospel' and assume they're being punished by some god for being 'bad'.

We really could take care of our own, but we don't think they're worthy.

And all those anti-abortion folks are also on the front lines for the idea of separating children from their parents if they have the temerity not to be people good enough to have been born US citizens. Children first, we say, but only if they're white and wealthy (which is our idea of proving their worth).
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  #34  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:08 AM
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In a country that can't even support our own people. We should not even be entertaining the thought of taking in any refugees.
Its a sad state of affairs that in the developed world we look after the wealthy and punish the poor.There is a real disturbing view that people are poor because they are lazy or bad people who are undeserving. We value our economy based on how much richer the wealthy are getting. We give tax cuts to the highest earners and still barely pay minimum wage to the poor. We give massive tax breaks to multi million making companies.



We fund unnecessary wars and always have money for weapons to kill people. However we cannot look after our disabled or fund our schools.

So why do we all put up with this , well because our leaders are very skilled in diverting blame. They convince us that social inequality is not because the rich get richer at the poors expense oh no . Our lives are hard because of a another group of people , migrants are to blame.

Immigration is not to blame for how a country uses its wealth. We could have more social justice if we wanted to, but our governments dont want that, they want more wealth for the wealthy while blaming the poor for being poor.
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  #35  
Old 06-17-2018, 01:48 PM
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They will be the world's most expensive tents, air conditioned or not. ICE is the same agency that the LA Times reported is paying $297 million to a private company to help them hire 5000 new Border Patrol agents.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...217-story.html
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:03 PM
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They will be the world's most expensive tents, air conditioned or not. ICE is the same agency that the LA Times reported is paying $297 million to a private company to help them hire 5000 new Border Patrol agents.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...217-story.html

Hell, we could put all the wee ones AND their parents up in a Holiday Inn for less money than that Just goes to show that the GOP has money for what they want, just not for things that We The People need (and yes, immigrants are people too )
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  #37  
Old 06-17-2018, 03:01 PM
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They will be the world's most expensive tents, air conditioned or not. ICE is the same agency that the LA Times reported is paying $297 million to a private company to help them hire 5000 new Border Patrol agents.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...217-story.html
Lemme tell you what this CBP budget pays for (outside of jailing children and people seeking asylum).

Some of you might recall my thread on a disturbing Border Patrol stop I had a while back. Last week was my first visit back since then. In that time, they've increased the size of the stop to include four more patrol vehicle shelters, set up a tire drag**, and put in a bunch of new fancy signs that warn you a checkpoint is ahead in one mile/checkpoint ahead in half a mile/must stop at checkpoint/turn on low beams, and new safety cones to block traffic. There also appears to be a camera that views our vehicle upon passing through. I can't swear to it because I didn't ask, but I'm assuming it snaps our license plate.

This morning, I was treated no less than six CBP vehicles in a 20 minute stretch of I8. I8 is the Rio Grande between the wall (it's a fence, with gaps, and sand drifts high enough to walk over) and Arizona. I guess when they're going 80mph down the road they hope that a border crosser will just wander out onto the interstate and flag them down because that's the only way they're going to catch anyone from there.

And this is all something they can legally do within a 100 mile jurisdiction from any exterior border. Who knows? Maybe this military-like presence will be coming to your home town soon! Remember that when you're voting in law influencers fond of funding Border Patrol. I live here, you're welcome to visit and see what it's really like and decide if that's something you'd welcome on your tax dime.



**tire drags: The idea is that if they disappear the footprints of previous folks walking through the desert, the next round of crossers will have nothing to follow and they'll become disoriented. So they hook up these tires by chains to the back of trucks and ATVs and drive around in the sand "erasing" tracks. That's the idea. Here's the reality:

1. We have a bunch of tires just lying around alongside the interstate and highways making an otherwise beautiful desert look like a landfill.
2. It's the Sonoran desert. We have winds up to 40mph, regularly, and right now we're headed into monsoon season. It's the equivalent to living in a sandblaster. Tracks don't last long without their help.
3. The person getting paid to drag tires around in the shifting dunes has to make the conscious choice to say, "on the minuscule chance that someone is following tracks to safety, I'm going to go out there and erase them so they might get lost. In the desert. Where there is no water, shelter or rescue." Humanitarian of the freakin' year.
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  #38  
Old 06-17-2018, 04:06 PM
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What everyone seems to forget is the fact that they are ILLEGALLY HERE!!!
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  #39  
Old 06-17-2018, 04:25 PM
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So why do we all put up with this , well because our leaders are very skilled in diverting blame. They convince us that social inequality is not because the rich get richer at the poors expense oh no. Our lives are hard because of a another group of people , migrants are to blame.
"Sociologists have frequently observed that governments use punishment primarily as a tool of social control, and thus the extent or severity of punishment is often unrelated to actual crime patterns."
[...]
"We must come to see, too, how our economic insecurities and racial resentments have been exploited for political gain, and how this manipulation has caused suffering for people of all colors. Finally, we must admit, out loud, that it was because of race that we didn’t care much what happened to “those people” and imagined the worst possible things about them. The fact that our lack of care and concern may have been, at times, unintentional or unconscious does not mitigate our crime—if we refuse, when given the chance, to make amends." source

This is the only way it makes sense that a good chunk of this administration's support comes from working class white folks. One might be able to forgive them if this wasn't history repeating itself (again and again). It's the same concept that promoted Jim Crow laws, voter registration laws that disproportionately affected people of color, and The War on Drugs.

It would be too damning to posit the issues of the working class against the control of the financial elite. So we pit the poor against each other with race as the dividing line. Distracting poor and struggling white voters with the glitz of campaign promises to improve their station in life is old hat. But people fall for it time and time again. From "It Was Cultural Anxiety That Drove White, Working-Class Voters to Trump", May 2017:

"[W]hite, working-class voters-- people without college degrees or salaried jobs ...] account for one-third of American adults."

"Nearly two-thirds of [this] class say American culture has gotten worse since the 1950s. Sixty-eight percent say the U.S. is in danger of losing its identity, and 62 percent say America’s growing number of immigrants threaten the country’s culture. More than half say discrimination against whites has become just as problematic as discrimination against minorities." source

Immigrants threaten our culture? Out with the melting pot, up with incarceration?

Last edited by miamac; 06-17-2018 at 04:49 PM.. Reason: formatting issue
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Old 06-17-2018, 04:36 PM
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What everyone seems to forget is the fact that they are ILLEGALLY HERE!!!
No one has forgotten how they came to be here. We disagree strongly on whether they are criminals. Further, if we narrow it down to the detention of families with children, there is no law-- democrat or republican written, that requires the separation of adults and minors. Trump pulled that one out of his @$$ and it failed to fly.
And I'm a natural born citizen having to live with this farce of a "patrol" that is supposed to protect me from, what? Farm workers? The guy who sells paletas in my neighborhood? What exact threat do assylum seekers and three year olds pose to you?

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  #41  
Old 06-17-2018, 04:52 PM
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All 300+ millions of us, except for Native Americans, were at one time an immigrant themselves, or they are descended from immigrants, Trump and Sessions included. I wonder how they would treat their ancestors if they were arriving now? Probably the same way since much of their "tough on everyone but me" is just nastiness anyway.
That's what I've pondered since this entire "immigration ban" began. We have a statue that on one hand people praise it's legacy of welcome immigrants to this country, yet on the other hand, we want to put up stipulations when we don't feel comfortable with others. I know that's a part of the conversation that's excluded but it appears that only certain nations are being included in this "immigration ban" and it has nothing to do with the amount of people we can "afford" to have in this country, their criminal background, and the means in which they enter this country.

Historically, this nation has trails of blood that says otherwise, buried deep within the soils from the Pacific coast to the Deep South shoreline.
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:16 PM
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View photos, videos and tweets from today's March to Tornillo
[Dem senate candidate Beto] O’Rourke said during the event: “We’re wanting to make sure that everyone in this country knows what is happening here, in their name, in Tornillo, where kids have traveled 2,000 miles, some alone, some with their parents, are being held in detention camps, tent cities that have just been constructed over the course of this last week…”


The Tornillo shelter has 400 beds prepared, and [R Texas State Rep] Hurd said it will be hitting capacity soon, El Paso Times reported. He added that officials are discussing increasing the number of beds to 4,000.
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  #43  
Old 06-17-2018, 05:28 PM
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Personally I could careless about this issue except it affects every tax paying citizen. I pay for my medical my dental and my house and all the bills with it. I don't have kids yet I still pay school taxes, I get it but I'll be damned if I should have to support illegals on money that should be going to support those who deserve it like the starving elderly, disabled veterans, homeless mentally ill. Oh yeah and what about the horrible conditions your loved ones are enduring so we can feed 1/2 the world in air conditioned tents!!! I thought this was a support site for loved ones of the incarcerated. Really think about what your saying that it's okay to let a UNITED STATES VETERAN GO HOMELESS so we can put up illegals!!!
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:40 PM
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Personally I could careless about this issue except it affects every tax paying citizen. I pay for my medical my dental and my house and all the bills with it. I don't have kids yet I still pay school taxes, I get it but I'll be damned if I should have to support illegals on money that should be going to support those who deserve it like the starving elderly, disabled veterans, homeless mentally ill. Oh yeah and what about the horrible conditions your loved ones are enduring so we can feed 1/2 the world in air conditioned tents!!! I thought this was a support site for loved ones of the incarcerated. Really think about what your saying that it's okay to let a UNITED STATES VETERAN GO HOMELESS so we can put up illegals!!!
You can thank tRump for major cuts in services like Meals on Wheels & VA, PBS, NPR and so many others

Yes, this is a support site for the loved ones of the incarcerated. Are these children not incarcerated? Do they not have loved ones?

I gotta take a walk...
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:48 PM
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Yes our government treats veterans horribly, as well as all of the "criminals" who have violated any of our millions of criminal laws that have been escalated into felonies. That's outrageous too.

As long as it is "them" not "us" very few people object. The problem is all of the "us" folks who are now "them".
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:00 PM
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You can thank tRump for major cuts in services like Meals on Wheels & VA, PBS, NPR and so many others

Yes, this is a support site for the loved ones of the incarcerated. Are these children not incarcerated? Do they not have loved ones?

I gotta take a walk...
To reply to your question would only incite more conflict. Funny but living off the US tax payers in Air Conditioned tents is not my idea of being incarcerated.
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:59 PM
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Personally I could careless about this issue except it affects every tax paying citizen. I pay for my medical my dental and my house and all the bills with it. I don't have kids yet I still pay school taxes, I get it but I'll be damned if I should have to support illegals on money that should be going to support those who deserve it like the starving elderly, disabled veterans, homeless mentally ill. Oh yeah and what about the horrible conditions your loved ones are enduring so we can feed 1/2 the world in air conditioned tents!!! I thought this was a support site for loved ones of the incarcerated. Really think about what your saying that it's okay to let a UNITED STATES VETERAN GO HOMELESS so we can put up illegals!!!
*sigh* I don't know what you're stuck on the myth that immigrants are thieves in the night stealing your tax dollars. Let's take the worst case scenario:


A migrant worker without citizenship assumes the social security number of a US citizen (typically a deceased citizen, fwiw) in order to work in this country. They're paid under the SS# which means federal and state taxes are being taken out. That money goes to pay for things like roads, senator's paychecks, schools, SS retirement, SS disability, Medicaid, VA services. At the end of the year, they don't get a tax refund. They can't. Why? Because they don't have picture ID in that name, they don't have a SS card or driver's license and no bank account. They can't cash a check or have automatic deposit. They'll never draw social security or qualify for Medicare. Sure, they might enroll their kids in public school. So what terrible theft can we charge them with? Wanting to educate their kids in exchange for helping fund your retirement and healthcare and oh! wait...SCHOOLS. Scandalous!

And why is it that you think because someone supports the humane treatment of people fleeing poverty and violence we would piss on a vet before trying to house them? Have you ever asked me or anyone else in this thread what they think about the homeless veteran issue? No. You've just accused.

My husband is in prison because he committed a crime. And if you want to incarcerate immigrants who come without papers, then fine. Put them in prison next to my husband. He'd probably love the company of people who had the ambition to take on border crossing over a US citizen cellie who slit his gf's throat because she looked at another man at the mall. But your tax dollars are paying for that, too. If you cared so much about money being funneled into wasteful projects, the $300million quoted by fbop below for these tent cities should outrage you. I know-- you had the best solution by suggesting we should just shoot them. I do not understand you or your position. I've tried. I've tried to present facts. I've tried to link this violation to patterns in history and you stubbornly cling to your narrative. You and I have been here before so I'm well aware I'm spitting into the wind. I will never change your mind. But I cannot and never will let it be said that I listened to bigotry and stayed silent. Never.


By the way, you're welcome to come to the desert and pick your own damn lettuce in the 112 degree heat, 10 hours a day for $50 and a kick back across the border at the end of the season.


And because I'm really angry right now-- you might think about chipping in a few extra tax dollars to K-12 education. The phrase is "I couldn't care less". If you could care less, then you probably would.


My apologies for this outburst but I can't. I just can't.

Last edited by miamac; 06-17-2018 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 06-17-2018, 07:03 PM
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U.N. Calls on Trump Administration to Stop Separating Immigrant Children From Parents

Catholic bishops issue scathing statement on Trump's family separation policy

'Disgraceful': Separating immigrant children from their parents is so unpopular even Trump's base is not supporting it

Melania Trump "hates to see" children separated from their families at borders

Doctors: Trump's Border Separation Policy Is Causing a 'Mental Health Crisis' for Families

Doctors Concerned About 'Irreparable Harm' To Separated Migrant Children

Its a terrible policy, its heartless & cruel, it affects childhood development, the entire world (minus a handful of angry & vengeful-driven folks) sees it for what it is: our naked emperor's pawns in a desperate attempt to coerce billions in funding for an unwanted, unnecessary wall.

**Any statements made by me in this thread are solely mine on a personal level, not as an Admin of PTO**

I will not reply any longer in this thread. Its sorta like screaming at a deaf person. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how biased, provided all posts are within policy.
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Old 06-17-2018, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
To reply to your question would only incite more conflict. Funny but living off the US tax payers in Air Conditioned tents is not my idea of being incarcerated.
I hear this about "Americans"!!! The same working poor i.e. tax payers work 2-3 jobs and the same is said about them.

Come on! I really wish we could began to be about humanity and not currency because the same political tools that have you believe the statement you made, created the debacle the "tax payers" are dealing with for generations.
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Old 06-17-2018, 07:43 PM
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No sooner do I walk away from this conversation do I see this news article lying open on my kitchen table:
"City Donates More Land for Vets Home"

“When originally proposed, the facility was to have 60 beds. Now the Arizona Department of Veterans Services is proposing the construction of an 80,000-square-foot facility with 80 beds, including four 16-bed long-term care units and a 16-bed memory care unit.
In 2014, the city donated eight acres at the southeast corner of Avenue 6E and 34th Street for the facility. However, to accommodate a larger facility, Veterans Services has asked for an additional three acres of property. [...] The city council is expected to approve an ordinance contributing the additional property to the Veteran Services during the Wednesday meeting.”


That city? 20% living in poverty. 27% foreign born. And 63% Latino. And we're donating land to build a veterans care facility. So go ahead. Blame immigrants. They're clearly the issue when it comes to homeless veterans.

Last edited by miamac; 06-17-2018 at 07:46 PM..
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