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Met While Incarcerated Were you introduced by a friend or family member after he/she was incarcerated? Did you meet as Pen Pals? This Forum is for you!

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Old 12-18-2006, 01:52 AM
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Talking MWI Q&A--A place to share opinions and ideas

Hey everyone. This is a continuation of a conversation in another thread.

The whole thing started when I asked a rather ignorant question, namely "How do MWI relationships happen?" I literally meant, how do the two people initiate contact, because I didn't know about pen-pal programs, online dating, etc. I got a number of responses, some understanding and informative, others wounded and defensive. The question developed over time as I began forming an opinion about the risks involved and the potential for one or both parties to get hurt.

The end result is I feel as though I got to know a great deal more about MWI relationships, but there's still a lot of ground yet to cover and a lot of voices yet to be heard. This forum is intended to be a place where people can ask questions, voice concerns, and share opinions about MWI relationships. So have at it!
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:17 AM
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for anyone who missed the beginning of this conversation and would like to read and comment , it started http://prisontalk.com/forums/showthr...238174&page=24 in this thread about post #358

Mrs.Jack I hope you don't mind that I added that but it will save you from having to rehash a lot of the things you already discussed at length.
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:19 AM
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Thank you thank you thank you, apf! I was just trying to figure out how to do that when I came back to my CP and there it was!
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:36 PM
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Okay so I've moved this thread to the MWI forum so that we can discuss this...

Those that know me know that I personally don't feel the need to defend my relationship, I do however want to share for the purpose of this discussion MY specific set of circumstances although they are mine (and Sebastian's) alone it is what it is...

Three and a half years ago and for the very first time in my life I forwarded my house phone to my cell phone as I had to go to work and was expecting a call from my daughter in another state, during my workday I get a call, a local number that seems familiar but I'm not certain so I answer and it is a collect call from our local county jail.

Now mind you a few months prior I had broken it off with a scoundrel who occasionally had some child support issues and my first inclination was that after all this time he was in jail and had the NERVE to call ME??? With that in mind I answered, hoping to offer him a negative PIECE of my mind, LOL. Hey I'm human.

Well it wasn't him, infact it was a most respectful young man who had attempted a call to a family member but misdialed and voila got me! My background is working with gang members and other disenfranchised young people so it was in my nature to reach out and assist as best I could, I asked him if I could put the call through for him and did so. After he finished consulting with his family about his court appearance scheduled for later the same day they said their goodbyes I wished him luck and he thanked me for accepting the call and helping him and casually asked if we might speak again. I told him that would be fine. He made sure he HAD the number right.

Now remember if I hadn't forwarded the house phone to the cell phone he would have gotten my answering machine and that would have been the end of this story, the term "fate" comes to mind...

I was in my office when the call takes place, infact surrounded by co-workers, all privy to my end of the conversation and wondering... I told them what had taken place and was asked, "Do you think he'll call again?" "I know he will," was my response. While I had NO romantic notions I knew that this wasn't over...

A few days later he called. ( Told ya, LOL) We began a routine of calls and letters in a gettin' to know you kind of way. We talked about his impending transfer to prison, common interests, local and world news, religion, his family, my family, the date I'd just been on with whomever, friendly and casual and in no way romantic...

He never asked for money and only called once a week in the beginning and I was happy to hear from him and hoped that I could offer some comfort. I soon realized that he was well supported by his family and didn't "need" me but just enjoyed the interaction, I enjoyed it as well, so much so that even though it was a time in my little world where my social life was absolutely fabulous (so many men so little time p.s. yeah I only date younger men, I'm 44 he's 29) I found myself less inclined to accept offers from "really great guys" in favor of reading or writing to this young man. Don't get me wrong I didn't close myself off, I still went out with friends, socialized and enjoyed life in general it's just that I felt this pull IN HIS DIRECTION. He felt the same well the pull that is though of course our circumstances were different obviously.

As time passed (not much a couple of months at best) and after making it crystal clear again and again and again that while I cared for him (no "L" word, "cared") that I was not in the mood for a relationship he basically told me that it was too late for such thoughts and to pull away while it was within my rights was to back off from a future that we might have together.

I pondered this for a bit and hemmed and hawwed and looked at the world around me and drew on past relationships/experiences and wondered if I could indeed let go of the baggage that had me for so long enduring the airport carousel of life so to speak and finally came clean with myself, I was ready and he was at least in part the reason.

Never for one second from the very beginning when we were just friends did I ever stop to consider the fact that he was in county jail and on his way to prison as a deterrent. I guess I just don't think in those terms, I have a best friend that lives in a different state, works completely different hours than I and yet she and I sustain this friendship by working around the powers that be, I apply this in all that I do, I suppose you could say that I think of obstacles as opportunities, that's just me and so we go...

I did 14 months with him and he came came home to me JUST LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD. He was better to me than he claimed he would be and remember his family whom I have come to love and cherish would do ANYTHING for him, he didn't/doesn't NEED me.

Parole was hard on him/us and he got a STUPID violation that even the PD said he could fight and win but the fact is if he went back in and maxed out he'd been done with that part of his life a lot faster, we thought about it, talked about it, prayed about it and agreed ~ after 16 months of so-called freedom he went back for a 6 month bid wholly supported by his family and I.

He's been home for 5 months now OFF PAPER!!! We've had our ups and downs just like any couple and dare I say yes just like those that met in more traditional ways, LOL. He's got an old case that YES I was FULLY aware of that has reared it's ugly head and we are dealing with currently. He may OR may not be going back and no doubt I and his family will be there with him ALL THE WAY.

You could say that while we started out MWI we have moved on from that but I gotta tell you that physical attraction being what it is had we met in a club, on the street, in the grocery store, etc., we probably wouldn't have what we have but because the DOC was a factor an obstacle if you will, we were both afforded an opportunity to grow as individuals and as a couple long before he came home that first time.

We used the time wisely. Communication is key to any successful relationship, romantic or otherwise and we learned really and truly got inside each others heads on all matters that were pertinent to "us". We got to know one anothers families blended them together, his mama is my mama and one of my very best friends, my youngest son calls and asks first thing,"can I talk to Sebastian?" We're on the same page and yet...

If you'd have told me prior to this happening that a misdialed phone call would bring so much joy into my life I would have told you to get a lobotomy, not because of any judgement about incarcerated persons but simply because it does not or should I say did not smack of ANY reality in my life before now.

Speaking of now, we are together, it's no fairytale though, we are just like any couple with the rigorous ups and downs, highs and lows, the good, the bad, the ugly if you will. Bottom line is we love each other and remain determined to continue this journey together.

I gotta say though as a realist IF we were for whatever reason to part ways, it would have NOTHING to do with prison life and I would NEVER not for one minute regret or resent one moment of the precious time we've shared thus far....

Well that's all I gotta say for now, LOL,
Patty
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:56 PM
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I was wondering where the thread went to ,,Here it is!

Ok so we might as well start over fresh since its a clean slate
So my questions are this:
Mrs Jack why do you target MWI as a concern about the risks of people getting hurt?
Your husband is locked up as well, right? So I am trying to figure out what about MWI makes you more concerned about this particular group than say Women who have husbands in jail ?
I guess my "concern" is,,,Women who deal with incarcerated men period have lots of "stuff" to iron out and delve into. I think Women who are with their husbands while their men do time have a set of issues to deal with as well as, Women who meet men in jail have their "stuff" to hash out. But each group got junk they have to deal with. So I am trying to figure out why would a person be so concerned with a group that You have little experience with as opposed to analyzing and dealing with your own group that you do have some experience with and that has issues that need to be addressed?
I might not be making sense but I guess I am wondering why would a person make it a goal to save a certain group of people from problems and label their behavior dysfunctional if their own situation is labeled dysfunctional by many and has hurdles to overcome as well? They say that 85% of the men that go in to prison married end up divorced,,That seems like a real issue you should get to the bottom of and share the solutions/ Analysis/opinions with first??No? Otherwise you *might* come off to some as being the "kettle calling the pot black"?
This is not to say you are not free to talk and do what ever you want but since you opened the floor up to questions,,I thought I would put it out there as some of mine.
I leave in Peace
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Old 12-18-2006, 01:46 PM
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Hmmmmm, I read most of the posts that went back and forth between MrsJack and Wobabi and thought both made some valid statements.

I would say that technically, Kenny & I do not qualify as a MWI couple, yet in so many ways I do feel as though we have truly got to know each other while he has been incarcerated.

Kenny & I met way back in 1976 as teenagers and dated off and on prior to him going to prison in 1978. Because of the original sentence he received and only being 16 years old, I did not pursue the relationship. Fast forward 27 years later, I contacted him and we are where we are now, so we really have got to know each other while he has been inside. I have had all the same fears, concerns that nearly every other woman has had regarding him. Is what he says really true or is it the talk of a very lonely man? However seeing as how he is serving a life sentence and there is no guarantee that he'll ever get out, I don't believe that he is using me in any way shape or form. He has never had a penpal ad, he has got by in there for a long time on his own without any help from a woman, so he does not need me for money even tho I do send him a little on occasion.

I do think I have had an advantage over some of these other couples in that we do have a little bit of a shared history, but not one where we shared a household or anything like that, just shared youthful party times (it was the 70's after all). I don't know exactly why this fact gives me some comfort because trust me we didn't do much in the way of talking way back then. Not anything truly meaningful anyway.

I must say though I have often wondered about those who have taken up a relationship that began as penpals, especially those whose men still have the ads up. How do you know since he is most likely in communication with other women, that he is truthful with you and not playing game?

I guess I do feel that the women are a little more vulnerable to being played in this scenario. I'm not saying that an incarcerated individual is more apt to play game than one out here, I just feel that his "options" of having his needs met are more limited than a man out here, so he does what he feels he has to do. After all, he is probably seeing this scene played out all around him, at least I know Kenny says it goes on all the time. So when he sees other guys having multiple women sending him money, why shouldn't he dip his cup in this well too?
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Old 12-18-2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKB's Girl
I must say though I have often wondered about those who have taken up a relationship that began as penpals, especially those whose men still have the ads up. How do you know since he is most likely in communication with other women, that he is truthful with you and not playing game?

I guess I do feel that the women are a little more vulnerable to being played in this scenario. I'm not saying that an incarcerated individual is more apt to play game than one out here, I just feel that his "options" of having his needs met are more limited than a man out here, so he does what he feels he has to do. After all, he is probably seeing this scene played out all around him, at least I know Kenny says it goes on all the time. So when he sees other guys having multiple women sending him money, why shouldn't he dip his cup in this well too?
You are a thoughtful person, I know that to be the case. Let me just say that it probably never would have ocurred to me to write someone in prison via the penpal site route, I do however have the utmost respect for individuals that take time out of their day to day to be a friend to someone they don't even know whether a relationship is in the offing or otherwise.

In terms of such women being more vulnerable well it is what is yanno? I think that we need to remind ourselves that what is true about and within ourselves is very different from one person to the next. Needy people gravitate in one way those that are wholly sustained in another. That in and of itself holds true for relationships where prison is not an issue as well. We all tend to meet somewhere in the middle and live side by side regardless.

Thanks for bringing this up and allowing me to respond...

Patty
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Old 12-18-2006, 02:33 PM
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I hope I didn't sound harsh or judgmental because I sure didn't mean it to. I know that before I wrote Kenny I was scared to death and I had known him before. So the people that write to those they have never met to me have a unique kind of courage.
You know after being on PTO for awhile you can't help but be aware that there seems to be a high risk of being taken advantage of in these types of relationships and I'm not limiting that to the MWI.
Bottom line I guess is that any relationship carries its own "risk". I love that old saying, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I know that when I sent the first card to Kenny I remember being so scared and then thinking, "What the hell!!!" right before putting the card in the mail chute.
Now, look where I am!!! In love with a man doing life. Be careful ladies, you may get more than what you asked for!!!!
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKB's Girl
I must say though I have often wondered about those who have taken up a relationship that began as penpals, especially those whose men still have the ads up. How do you know since he is most likely in communication with other women, that he is truthful with you and not playing game?
I guess I do feel that the women are a little more vulnerable to being played in this scenario. I'm not saying that an incarcerated individual is more apt to play game than one out here, I just feel that his "options" of having his needs met are more limited than a man out here, so he does what he feels he has to do. After all, he is probably seeing this scene played out all around him, at least I know Kenny says it goes on all the time. So when he sees other guys having multiple women sending him money, why shouldn't he dip his cup in this well too?
JKB,,well you know I hashed this one out a few times,,so I kind of have the same responses so forgive me,,But there will always be players and men who are players but when you look at the overall numbers of men in jail with no one at all,,,They far out weigh the players,,The men who want to meet a nice lady and ride out are Huge. They probably more than likely are the ones who are not on line showing titties, or writing all the fancy poetry or "appearing" to be lost and turned out.
My other issue is why do we have to focus so much on Player men when it comes to MWI,,Thats not all there is to MWI by far. Because there is no way you could convince me that a jail of 4,000 men are all getting tons of mail from tons of females,,It usually is only the few Dudes who know how to run the game and want to. My dude had to push his dudes back from hounding him to hound me about hooking them up with some one nice,,Because they SEE how good it is to have a "wifey"(one owman they want as a wife type figure).
And from what *I* saw *most* of the players were Married men,,who had their chicks from the Streets coming and going more so than dudes who met chicks on the net and were free to correspond to how many ever they wanted to.
Again yes there are players and yes there are needy women out here but there are also so many more sincere men and ,,,women who know what choices they are making. so when a person says they dont understand MWI and how it could come about and the proceed to say ALL in that group must be XYZ,,,,Well to me I could say the same thing about ANY woman being with a man in prison,,because people on the outside dont know the difference,,They just lump us all together
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:50 PM
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My sister knew his family and told me about him. I was in a very unhappy marriage for years and I wrote to him. I lived in NH and he was in NJ. My husband at the time brought me to NJ to visit my sister so we also decided to go to the prison and meet him. He had put both of us on his visiting list. I had been married for 32 years and never thought I could make it on my own. After meeting him and writing for several more months I got a divorce and moved to NJ. Guess that is the last time my ex takes any one to visit someone in prison! But he and I also get along better now than the whole time we were married.
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Old 12-18-2006, 04:13 PM
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[quote=Wobabi][color=blue]My other issue is why do we have to focus so much on Player men when it comes to MWI,,Thats not all there is to MWI by far. Because there is no way you could convince me that a jail of 4,000 men are all getting tons of mail from tons of females,,It usually is only the few Dudes who know how to run the game and want to. My dude had to push his dudes back from hounding him to hound me about hooking them up with some one nice,,Because they SEE how good it is to have a "wifey"(one owman they want as a wife type figure).

Maybe one reason is that there are a lot of these types of stories told here on PTO, so it possibly "overemphasizes" the MWI aspect of "when the relationship is over". I'm no expert and this is only a guess.
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKB's Girl
I must say though I have often wondered about those who have taken up a relationship that began as penpals, especially those whose men still have the ads up. How do you know since he is most likely in communication with other women, that he is truthful with you and not playing game?
I don't know that he is truthful and not playing games. I am concerned about it. I can say, as long as this man continues to have his ad up (an ad that asks for responses from 'women only') I will not commit to him in a serious romantic way but will insist on only being close friends. And I won't tell him I want it taken down either. If he really felt he loved me he would have enough sense to take it offline or significantly alter the wording of it without me saying anything. If he doesn't have that sense, then I'm thinking he's probably not the person I want to be committed to anyway and it probably isn't meant to be.
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKB's Girl
I must say though I have often wondered about those who have taken up a relationship that began as penpals, especially those whose men still have the ads up. How do you know since he is most likely in communication with other women, that he is truthful with you and not playing game?

I guess I do feel that the women are a little more vulnerable to being played in this scenario. I'm not saying that an incarcerated individual is more apt to play game than one out here, I just feel that his "options" of having his needs met are more limited than a man out here, so he does what he feels he has to do. After all, he is probably seeing this scene played out all around him, at least I know Kenny says it goes on all the time. So when he sees other guys having multiple women sending him money, why shouldn't he dip his cup in this well too?
Thank you, JKB. Your even-handed curiosity displayed here is essentially what my original question boils down to: How do MWI relationships happen? How are they initiated? What attracts a woman to the idea of becoming romantically involved with a person she's never met, much less a person she's never met who's incarcerated?

I feel as though many of my original questions have been answered. MWIs happen the same way free world relationships happen: A million different ways! No two are exactly the same, and no one has the right to pass judgement on another person's romantic decisions. I absolutely support anyone who wants to become a penpal to an inmate; it's an honorable, compassionate act. And I see now that the penpal relationship can develop into something more due to mutual affection, shared interests, similar senses of humor, etc. just like a free world relationship. If I were to become a penpal to an inmate, I wouldn't become romantically involved with them; firstly because I'm married, and it would be kinda inappropriate, and secondly because that's just not the way I fall in love. Perhaps that's why I found it so hard to believe that the love was real, because my understanding of romantic love and the way it grows between two people involves lots of time together, choice, trust and chemistry.

I apologize humbly if my analysis of MWIs in general offended (or continues to offend) anyone.

HotLatinMILF and Wobabi, I want to thank you for taking the time to dialogue with me about this issue, and I'm sorry if I was a little prickly or condescending at times. You've taught me a lot, and I owe you both one for teaching me an important lesson about jumping to conclusions and speaking too soon. I don't regret starting the thread or asking any of the sometimes prying questions I asked, because I learned so much that it seems worth it.

To address Wobabi's question about why I chose to scrutinize MWIs so closely, it was for two reasons:

1. The questions I mentioned above
2. My fear that women were being used
3. My experience talking to men who were so desperate for letters while locked up that they were willing to say whatever they had to in order to land a MWI girlfriend.

And I'm not going to lie, as I got some of my initial questions answered, a part of me scoffed at the idea that a woman whose entire relationship takes place with her man in prison has ANY idea what I went through after abruptly losing my husband who I had been with since I was 16. I assumed that everyone on PTO knew their man before he went away, and everyone was here to support each other through that transition and the subsequent time their man was away. In my grief and loss, I became indignant at the idea that the pain of simply being far from a "loved one" could be compared with what I was going through immediately following my husband's incarceration, and I was confused why MWIs were even here. Now that I've explored a little on here and seen the ENORMOUS number of different forums, threads and groups, I know that my kind of situation isn't the only kind that exists here and everyone deserves the same kind of acceptance and support that I've gotten (which, by the way, has been great! )

I had certain ideas about what MWI people on both sides of the wall might be like. I assumed that the men were the same kind of manipulators I've known who, while in jail/prison situations had needs and in the absence of a strong family support system, looked elsewhere to get them filled by any means neccessary. I assumed that, given the fact that so many inmates get abandoned by the support systems they went into the situation with (The 85% of marriages ending in divorce you referred to, etc.), that many of them might end up "trolling" for a potential sugar-mama on the other side of the wall. I surmised that because of their overwhelming need for human connection, stamps, commisary and other valuable resources, some of that 85% might resort to lies or manipulation of feelings in order to get what they want. Being a manipulator is a trait that many people (men and women on both sides of that wall) have, but I think that we can all agree that a situation like prison and the deprivations suffered by inmates could easily bring it out in a person. Therefore I came to the conclusion that there was a pretty good chance that at least a few of the women in MWI relationships here on PTO might be in that kind of dysfunctional situation and so I decided to ask some tough questions and see what I could find out, and maybe reach someone who would re-examine their situation and make positive change as a result.

Please understand that I only meant to shed some light and help support women out of a relationship where they might be getting used. I can't stand the thought of a good-hearted person with good intentions being taken advantage of. Truly, it's something I just can't accept. There are so many awful people running around out there, and the last thing we need is for one more kind, altruistic individual to be hurt and jaded to the point that they no longer care about other people enough to reach out.

Also (and I'm only saying this because I know it's not true now) I assumed that all the women trolling for male contact in the state prison were women who, for one reason or another, had failed at finding someone who was free; women who had been jilted, cheated on, divorced, played, used, or stolen from. In some ways, I assumed that they were desperate, unattractive people who were convinced that they weren't capable of getting someone to love them unless they were that person's only option. And I also speculated that the power balance (with the woman in total control with total freedom and the man totally helpless with no freedom) was especially appealing to women in this category because they never had to worry about being abandoned or betrayed. Once again, I know now that this REALLY isn't the case. But in my own defense, many people that aren't familiar with MWI situations feel the way I felt, so I'm not a horrible person. I'm only human like all the rest of the jerks who have called your life into question the way I did. I can see now that each relationship starts and develops differently so you can't paint them all with the same brush. However, in the event that I found someone in an MWI who was feeling used, I was prepared to try and convince them that they deserved to be in a relationship with an equal, someone who was free and willing and able to give them everything they've always wanted. I do the same things with women I know in real life who are being controlled or abused. I'm just one of those nosy, do-gooder types, I guess. In other words, my intentions have been good all along, so just forgive me for being an idealistic 20-something college student.

Again, my contact with a number of eloquent, intelligent MWI ladies has taught me several things:

1. Not all MWI relationships are the same, nor do they begin the same way as every other MWI out there.
2. Not all MWI relationships are as dysfunctional as I thought they were
3. People can be really defensive about their MWI relationship! So be careful which questions you ask and how you ask them if you have any.
4. Not all MWI women are desperate, ugly control freaks looking for a hot, muscly, badboy/lapdog.


I'm sure I'll be writing more on this topic, but I just wanted to clarify this stuff to Wobabi as we both had to grit our teeth and hold our tounges on a few occasions in order to keep it holy about this issue.
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Old 12-19-2006, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs.JackR

Not all MWI women are desperate, ugly control freaks looking for a hot, muscly, badboy/lapdog.
not to rock the boat BUT

do you really expect the ones that do fit the above description would offer themselves up for sacrifice here ?

just like all the success stories ..few and far between because they are off living life and have no need to be in a group any longer to co-miserate with others

sorry JMHO
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:25 PM
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not to rock the boat BUT

do you really expect the ones that do fit the above description would offer themselves up for sacrifice here ?

just like all the success stories ..few and far between because they are off living life and have no need to be in a group any longer to co-miserate with others

sorry JMHO
I'm not sure that I understand what you're trying to say here...would you mind clarifying it for me please?
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:42 AM
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. . . just like all the success stories ..few and far between because they are off living life and have no need to be in a group any longer to co-miserate with others. . .
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Old 12-20-2006, 06:08 AM
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Default problee only makes sense to ME

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Originally Posted by Mrs.JackR
I'm not sure that I understand what you're trying to say here...would you mind clarifying it for me please?

I seem to have the feeling you wanted to address the whole subject so you could straighten out the wrong thinkers...
you know the ones you think are > women who are desperate, ugly control freaks looking for a hot, muscly, badboy/lapdog

but what I don't think you see is
after people see how they are stereotyped like that do you think they'll jump in your thread for you to help them find the light ?

you really don't want nice stories you want to save people from themselves it seems
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Old 12-20-2006, 06:10 AM
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I don't know -- I just can't relate to the curiosity and hoopala that MWI relationships attract, particularly on a support sight where people can either support the relationship or just keep it moving.

People are people no matter where they are, and they all come from the same place -- out of the inside of a woman. So whether a couple meets on the inside, or whether on the outside INITIALLY they were ALL strangers until they got to know each other better.

The aire seems to be the relationship is in a better position if they met on the outside but if it was all that better, then what did he leave his happy home for to join the ranks of men whom us MWI women meet, marry and have good relationships with? They say only 5% of society marriages are HAPPLY MARRIED. What I'd then be concerned, curious and wondering about instead of MWIs is "are we in that 5%, and if so, then how did this happen that my husband went to prison? How will things be when he comes out because often MWO don't come out the same way they go in. Many times, just like the MWI relationship, Met While Outside relationships don't last either." My focuses would be on making sure we are in that 5%, and, maintaining that we remain there.

People are people no matter where you meet, and when it comes to people doing people things, there usually is no discrimination.

Last edited by HeSoHandsome; 12-20-2006 at 06:17 AM..
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tatersalad
I seem to have the feeling you wanted to address the whole subject so you could straighten out the wrong thinkers...
you know the ones you think are > women who are desperate, ugly control freaks looking for a hot, muscly, badboy/lapdog

but what I don't think you see is
after people see how they are stereotyped like that do you think they'll jump in your thread for you to help them find the light ?

you really don't want nice stories you want to save people from themselves it seems
Tatersalad, I stated several times within the post you're quoting that the concept of MWI women being, and I quote, "desperate, ugly control freaks looking for a hot, muscly, badboy/lapdog" is one that I've moved past. I was trying to point out that, like much of society who hasn't gotten to know women in MWI relationships, I had certain preconceived notions and ideas about what the women (AND MEN) involved were like. That post was a summary of my journey from ignorance about these relationships into a place of knowledge through dialogue and frank conversation. Even a cursory reading of the post would clearly show that the point is I no longer see things that way. So I fail to see the purpose of your post. Please, if I've misunderstood your reasons for writing this, I'd love to hear them stated in a way that I can better understand.
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Old 12-20-2006, 06:07 PM
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To address what HeSoHandsome said about the curiosity and Hoopla about this issue, I don't think that our curiosity is unfounded. For example, people have been meeting each other and falling in love for thousands of years but only recently with the advent of the internet have people begun "meeting" each other and establishing relationships in cyberspace. There are many people who don't understand this phenomenon and ask questions about it, and the people who are secure in their e-relationship don't get defensive when people ask questions about it. I think we can all agree that "meeting" and establishing a relationship with someone who's incarcerated is an unconventional method of falling in love; that's not a value judgement or a condemnation, it's an observation based on how the remainder of society usually becomes romantically involved with each other. MWIs are in the extreme minority, and because it's unconventional, people will ask questions. I think it's important that people keep their cool and expain things in a way that the other "side" (although I hesitate to divide us in this way, because all the people here on PTO are on the same side as I see it) can understand. Wobabi, apf2489 and HotLatinMILF all took the time to break it down for me in their own individual ways, and as a result I understand it much more fully than I ever could have with only one person's opinion being presented to me. Curiosity, diversity of opinion, and respectful, open dialogue are the cornerstones of productive communication. It seems to me that we should all strive to hear each other more openly and accept the questions, explanations and opinions of others as valuable contributions to the PTO community whether or not we happen to share the perspective of the speaker. But hey, that's just my opinion and you're just as entitled you yours as I am to mine...
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:17 AM
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To address what HeSoHandsome said about the curiosity and Hoopla about this issue, I don't think that our curiosity is unfounded. ...
If it were just you Mrs.JackR, I could relate because you can always relate to a person here, a person there because you'll always have that. But because THERE ARE SO MANY here on this support site who, in a nutshell, honestly believe it's a nutty {I was using nice words when I said curious and hoopala} thing to do, personally, I just can't relate to that. I guess for me because of how I am, that's why I can't relate. How I am is I don't concern myself with other womens' relationships. We have all types of relationships here, some that would make me say "oh my", but because my personal feelings don't go beyond that {and hoopala goes waaaaaaay beyond}, I just can't relate. Hey, maybe it is relatable, but for me, because I could careless who is with who, I just can't relate.

I will say that women are always intrigued about other women and what's going on in those lives. Makes me think about a joke Bishop recently said that really wasn't a joke. He said ladies, if you get a new hairdo or wear a new shirt or a new pair of boots and you feel you weren't noticed because your husband didn't say anything, he said do not stress it because you WERE noticed -- ALL OF THE WOMEN NOTICED. Therefore,, your husband noticed too, he just didn't say anything.

I like to see growth/maturity because it's a sign of a person having an open mind, and I have grown ALOT as a sole result of being on PTO and I am proud of myself for that because growth/maturity is a beautiful thing on a person.

Before my PTO experience: I recently watched a show on prison wives and a woman who's husband had murdered her twin daughters. Together they had five children -- he brought in 3, she brought in her twins. His wife was lovingly standing by her incarcerated husband. I would have thought that woman was insane, that she is in a relationship that is crazy!!.

As a result of my PTO experience: I felt support for that lady as she told her story. I didn't look at her sideways or think anything twice about her relationship. She said she loved her husband, she forgave him, she even made excuses for him and she said she will be with him til death do them apart. Controversial as that may be, all I could feel for that was was SUPPORT solely because HER HUSBAND IS A PRISONER. The details of her relationship did not matter. What mattered was I CAN RELATE because she and I both are in love with a prisoner. No more, no less, no hoopala, curiosities, none of that -- just a mere "her husband is a prisoner, I'd feel like less of a woman to not support that when my husband is a prisoner too."

To that end, big ups to you tatersalad for your personal growth and maturity. Now that's a bandwagon that I don't mind seeing many women get on. But to knock yourselves out over other women's relationship when all our men are prisoners -- no matter how you found or unfound or whatever it, I can't relate.

That's what PTO has done for me. It's made me feel "it doesn't matter -- the only thing that matters is we all are in love with prisoners therefore no matter what your situation is -- I AM IN FULL SUPPORT.

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Old 12-21-2006, 07:30 AM
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To address what HeSoHandsome said about the curiosity and Hoopla about this issue, I don't think that our curiosity is unfounded. . . . But hey, that's just my opinion and you're just as entitled you yours as I am to mine...
No hard feelings toward you or the many who feel the same as you. I didn't read the part of your address substituted with the . . . in the quote, but I do agree to agree on the pink in that quote.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:48 AM
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Tatersalad, Please, if I've misunderstood your reasons for writing this, I'd love to hear them stated in a way that I can better understand.

.......I said ...wanted...past tense
I guess I'll leave it alone ... I won't use big enough words
or nearly enough of them

MRS..I'll say one thing for ya ...you're 22 ( if I remember right ?)
get back to me in another 25 years
we'll be on the same page then



heso ... right back at you ... for real ...keepin it real

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Old 12-21-2006, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatersalad
.......I said ...wanted...past tense
I guess I'll leave it alone ... I won't use big enough words
or nearly enough of them

MRS..I'll say one thing for ya ...you're 22 ( if I remember right ?)
get back to me in another 25 years
we'll be on the same page then



heso ... right back at you ... for real ...keepin it real
Tatersalad, that's a very insensitive thing for you to say. I don't expect to be treated as an inferior by you because of my age or the manner in which I express myself. I'm a 21 year old student, and if my vocabulary bothers you, I'm sorry but I'm expressing myself the only way I know how and no one's ridiculing you for doing the same. I was merely asking for some clarification because I could not (and still can't) understand what you meant by that post! If you can't understand something I've said, ask me to clarify and I'll be happy to do it. In the spirit of clarification, what makes you think that in 25 years my feelings will be any different about this topic? Do you think my opinion is somehow less valid because of my age today? When did it become acceptable to discriminate against or talk down to people on the basis of something as trivial as their age? How about race, is that the level we're sinking to next? Because I won't participate in a thread where people are being discriminated against for any reason. Period.

Here's the deal, to all the MWI women out there: Just like getting a facial piercing or a big tattoo or a Harley, getting into a MWI relationship is going to cause a big chunk of society to ask certain questions. So you may as well get used to the curiosity, because it's never going to change! You're not the only ones who get questioned about being with your inmate, so don't take it personally and get all defensive! People ask me every day why I chose to stay with my husband after he got in trouble, and I always answer calmly and confidently because I know in my heart it's the right decision for me and it doesn't matter what anyone says. The fact that they're asking gives me the opportunity to educate them a little, and I'm more than happy to do it.

And furthermore, Tater, I think it's ironic that you, who are seemingly so intersted in people being left alone about their personal decisions and identity, are calling my validity as a participant here into question. I never attacked you or any other MWI woman for any reason. I just respectfully expressed my opinion and asked some tough questions, and the people who were secure enough in themselves and their relationships responded patiently with understanding and kindness. The people who weren't as secure got defensive, but you're the first one to attack me personally or call me out on the basis of my age or education level. Sorry, I didn't mean to be young and educated and seeking more knowledge about an issue I'm interested in. I should really be older and ignorant and never try to learn anything new about any issue. And before you get all defensive and start attacking me again, I'm not characterizing you as being that way because I don't know anything about your age or level of education, and frankly it wouldn't matter to me if you were a Harvard graduate at age 19 or an illiterate at the age of 190. We all have a lot to offer and we should all be respected equally for our opinions.

I may only be 21, but I was raised to see life as one big opportunity to learn, which is why I'm going to keep asking questions whether or not it's the popular thing to do. I was also raised to respect other people regardless of their age or the size of the words they use. So you can get defensive and de-value me on the basis of my age or the way I talk OR you can participate actively in this thread and maybe even learn something or teach something to another person.
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:05 PM
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[font=Century Gothic][size=3]If it were just you Mrs.JackR, I could relate because you can always relate to a person here, a person there because you'll always have that. But because THERE ARE SO MANY here on this support site who, in a nutshell, honestly believe it's a nutty {I was using nice words when I said curious and hoopala} thing to do, personally, I just can't relate to that.
It's funny you should say that, HeSoHandsome. So far I have yet to encounter so much as one other person on this whole site that shares my curiosity about this topic. If you've noticed, I'm here alone fielding the criticism and questions of several people at once with no one to back me up or lend credibility to my situation. It seems to me, based on my admittedly limited experience, that MWIs get plenty of respect for their decisions and hardly ever get questioned while on PTO. If there was a long, established thread about this topic that I was aware of, I would have joined it rather than creating this new one. But it seemed to me like no one was really talking about it so I started asking questions. I've never encountered a person who was in a MWI relationship in real life, and PTO is my only source of information on the topic. So forgive me if I'm asking you and your fellow MWIs about this or sharing my opinion here, but you're the only chance I have to see MWI women as being more than the psychotic Charles Manson-style groupies that the media depicts. It was my desire to see you as real people with stories to tell and good reasons for choosing to be in your MWI relationships that led me to ask questions in the first place. I had certain preconceived notions that I wanted to be proven wrong, and so far I've seen many exceptions to the fat/desperate/crazy criteria the media and much of society in general assumes you must fit.

I do apologize if the questions are bothersome, but the same way PTO changed your perspective and allowed you to sympathize with that woman whose husband killed her kids, PTO has changed my perspective too and caused me to be way more accepting and understanding of certain kinds of relationships. That kind of understanding, which we've both gained here on PTO and benefited from, can only come from open dialogue and people who are willing to share their knowledge. Like you said, this is a support site, but another of the stated purposes of PTO is the exchange of information. If you ever needed support, I'd be there for you and any other PTO member in a heartbeat and I guess I expected the same kind of willingness from other people about certain kinds of information. I realize now that MWIs are a very sensitive topic for some people. But I didn't know that coming into PTO and my intentions were good, so please forgive me for being one of the many goofy askers of the same damn questions. I can see why you don't understand what the big fuss is about MWIs. It's a situation you're personally involved in and therefore you understand it inside and out, but not everyone has your perspective. So try to be patient, because if you take the time and educate me, there'll be one less person running around ignorant to your side of the story.
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