Welcome to the Prison Talk Online Community! Take a Minute and Sign Up Today!






Go Back   Prison Talk > U.S. REGIONAL FORUMS > WASHINGTON > Washington Parole, Probation, Work Release & Community Service
Register Entertainment FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Washington Parole, Probation, Work Release & Community Service All information & questions relating to parole, probation, work release and community service goes here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-17-2016, 02:47 AM
CommandoJoe CommandoJoe is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Angry On CC and sent back to prison

After 5 years, my stepson was released from prison August 2015 and was staying with my wife and I while he was on community custody. He started working and kept out of trouble.

Over the last few months he reconnected with an old girlfriend and other friends that live out of the county about half an hour drive away. He was picked up in the next county over a few months ago for violating probation, he did a few weeks in jail and life went on. Went out of county again a month later, got picked up, few more weeks in jail. While he was in jail this time a guard there falsified a report that he assaulted someone in jail and they wanted to send him back to prison, yet there was no documentation, no injured inmates, and no victim to testify to this assault so they released him.

At this point I thought he realized he has to play by the rules, but a couple of weeks ago he went back to that county and was picked up again. This time his CCO and her supervisor sent him back to prison for over 400 days! No new crime or charges, simply driving to the next county over. This would put him in prison beyond his original sentence... I asked his CCO how they could justify this and she gave their standard buzz phrase "Danger to the community", but couldn't tell me how he is a danger to the community with no new crime or charges. Then she rushed off the phone saying she had to take another call and would call me back, but of course she didn't... I could tell she was uncomfortable with my questions.

Is this even allowed? Where can we find all the rules about this type of situation? Seems like a violation of civil rights being locked up beyond the original sentence without a trial. Should we find a lawyer?

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-17-2016, 05:38 AM
GingerM's Avatar
GingerM GingerM is offline
Super Moderator

PTO Super Moderator Staff Superstar Award 

Donation Award 
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 5,765
Thanks: 7,842
Thanked 8,558 Times in 3,345 Posts
Default

I'm not overly familiar with Washington laws, but it sounds really fishy to me.

What is the difference between community custody and parole? Or is it pretty much the same thing?

One of the administrative laws listed here might have an answer for you: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=137-56

That said, the best way to get information is definitely from an attorney.

I agree, it sounds fishy that they sent him back for more time than he "owed" on his sentence. I don't know if Washington allows for "violation of parole" to be considered an offense on its own, as if he'd offended in prison (Oregon does not allow that, it is a new charge and must go to trial like any other new charge).

I hope you can find answers. If you do, please let us know what you discovered.

Gin
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-17-2016, 06:52 AM
CenTexLyn CenTexLyn is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: TX-US
Posts: 14,913
Thanks: 648
Thanked 11,104 Times in 6,007 Posts
Default

Another variable is whether this is a revocation where street-time is forfeited.

However, at some juncture, consequence HAS to attach when someone chooses to continually violate the rules. And if his rules of supervision precluded leaving the County and he CONTINUED to do so, just how many second-chances without real punishment did he believe he was entitled to? Some people GET it and others do not...those that do not wind up spending more time in custody.

Oh, and as a general rule, one is entitled to a hearing prior to having sanctions imposed EXCEPT AND UNLESS the individual waives the hearing. So, before the 400 days was imposed, my guess is that there was an opportunity to either have had a hearing before a designated hearing officer or judge OR he waived that opportunity. In either event, I am unaware of ANY agency where the supervising agency can unilaterally place someone in custody for a year (ok, 13 months) without a modicum of due process having attached.

Last edited by CenTexLyn; 04-17-2016 at 06:58 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-17-2016, 07:22 AM
CommandoJoe CommandoJoe is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexLyn View Post
Another variable is whether this is a revocation where street-time is forfeited.

However, at some juncture, consequence HAS to attach when someone chooses to continually violate the rules. And if his rules of supervision precluded leaving the County and he CONTINUED to do so, just how many second-chances without real punishment did he believe he was entitled to? Some people GET it and others do not...those that do not wind up spending more time in custody.

Oh, and as a general rule, one is entitled to a hearing prior to having sanctions imposed EXCEPT AND UNLESS the individual waives the hearing. So, before the 400 days was imposed, my guess is that there was an opportunity to either have had a hearing before a designated hearing officer or judge OR he waived that opportunity. In either event, I am unaware of ANY agency where the supervising agency can unilaterally place someone in custody for a year (ok, 13 months) without a modicum of due process having attached.
Don't get me wrong, I don't expect him to get any breaks and have told him as much - I expected him to be punished for leaving the county. I just feel that over 400 days is pretty extreme. That coupled with his CCO justifying the time by saying he was a danger to the community when he has hurt nobody and committed no crime... At worst I figured they would have him serve out his original sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerM View Post
I'm not overly familiar with Washington laws, but it sounds really fishy to me.

What is the difference between community custody and parole? Or is it pretty much the same thing?

One of the administrative laws listed here might have an answer for you: ...

That said, the best way to get information is definitely from an attorney.

I agree, it sounds fishy that they sent him back for more time than he "owed" on his sentence. I don't know if Washington allows for "violation of parole" to be considered an offense on its own, as if he'd offended in prison (Oregon does not allow that, it is a new charge and must go to trial like any other new charge).

I hope you can find answers. If you do, please let us know what you discovered.

Gin
As far as I understand it, parole and community custody are the same thing - Washington just has to call it something different I guess...

Thanks for the link, it wasn't directly related as it was for work release, but it pointed me in the right direction while I was browsing the various WAC's...

I think this section relates the best is WAC 137-30-080 (I don't have enough posts to insert a link)

Looks like there is a 3 strikes and you go back to prison rule, looking at section 2:

"(2) Community custody returns/terminates: During community custody, if an offender has not completed his/her maximum term of total confinement and is subject to a third violation hearing for any violation of community custody and is found to have committed the violation, the department may return the offender to total confinement to serve the remainder of the prison term."

c:

"(c) When determining the length of return time, the department must credit the offender with all community custody time successfully served and with all periods of prehearing time spent in confinement pending all prior and current community custody violation hearings for that cause."

If I'm reading this right, return time would be his original sentence minus his "good time/ERT". Then all the time since he was released from prison should count toward his original sentence and reduce the return time...

Is that how you see it?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-17-2016, 09:49 AM
GingerM's Avatar
GingerM GingerM is offline
Super Moderator

PTO Super Moderator Staff Superstar Award 

Donation Award 
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 5,765
Thanks: 7,842
Thanked 8,558 Times in 3,345 Posts
Default

Yeah, that's how I'm reading that. I don't think you stated how long his original sentence was, but if he was on parole with 400 days remaining on his sentence, then what the CCO did was what the administrative law said s/he could do.

But if he had less than 400 days remaining, then I would definitely contact an attorney.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-17-2016, 10:22 AM
CommandoJoe CommandoJoe is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I'll have to look up the exact dates/timing, but I'm thinking he got about 6-8 months of good time/early release. And since he's been out for about 7 months which should be credited toward his original sentence, it would almost be a wash...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-17-2016, 06:33 PM
CenTexLyn CenTexLyn is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: TX-US
Posts: 14,913
Thanks: 648
Thanked 11,104 Times in 6,007 Posts
Default

The next thing you need to do is determine how they determine the time that was SUCCESSFULLY completed. Very clearly, not everything on the street was successful or he NEVER would have been in the revocation process...

Hopefully if he ever winds up on supervision again, he realizes that actions have consequence, no matter how minor he thought the action was. And further, that there is a cumulative effect of infractions...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CenTexLyn For This Useful Post:
GingerM (04-18-2016)
  #8  
Old 04-18-2016, 05:49 PM
CommandoJoe CommandoJoe is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I just spoke to the attorney that originally represented him in 2011 - and apparently it doesn't go by the original sentence, but by the maximum sentence allowed by the charge. So unfortunately it doesn't look like there is anything we can do in this case as the 400+ days is still less than that...

I guess we can just hope that this will experience will finally make him realize that he has to follow the rules to the letter.

Thanks for the replies
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-18-2016, 06:17 PM
GingerM's Avatar
GingerM GingerM is offline
Super Moderator

PTO Super Moderator Staff Superstar Award 

Donation Award 
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 5,765
Thanks: 7,842
Thanked 8,558 Times in 3,345 Posts
Default

I wish you both luck. It's very difficult to watch someone you love do stupid things that you know are going to bite them. But sometimes people can only learn by experiencing the natural consequences of their actions. And it's hard to watch that happen.

I'm glad you got an answer, and I appreciate you sharing the information here for others who might need it in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-26-2016, 07:58 PM
WA CCO WA CCO is offline
Parole Officer
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 400
Thanks: 55
Thanked 376 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CommandoJoe View Post
After 5 years, my stepson was released from prison August 2015 and was staying with my wife and I while he was on community custody. He started working and kept out of trouble.

Over the last few months he reconnected with an old girlfriend and other friends that live out of the county about half an hour drive away. He was picked up in the next county over a few months ago for violating probation, he did a few weeks in jail and life went on. Went out of county again a month later, got picked up, few more weeks in jail. While he was in jail this time a guard there falsified a report that he assaulted someone in jail and they wanted to send him back to prison, yet there was no documentation, no injured inmates, and no victim to testify to this assault so they released him.

At this point I thought he realized he has to play by the rules, but a couple of weeks ago he went back to that county and was picked up again. This time his CCO and her supervisor sent him back to prison for over 400 days! No new crime or charges, simply driving to the next county over. This would put him in prison beyond his original sentence... I asked his CCO how they could justify this and she gave their standard buzz phrase "Danger to the community", but couldn't tell me how he is a danger to the community with no new crime or charges. Then she rushed off the phone saying she had to take another call and would call me back, but of course she didn't... I could tell she was uncomfortable with my questions.

Is this even allowed? Where can we find all the rules about this type of situation? Seems like a violation of civil rights being locked up beyond the original sentence without a trial. Should we find a lawyer?

Thanks in advance.
Quite often there more violations the the offender tells thier family. It is not easy to get someone revoked and a new crime doesn't need to take place for it to happen.

A revocation can happen at any hearing process. He is not being held longer then the Court ordered, he just lost all of his good time. It would be the same if he had multiple infractions in prison and lost his good time.

He got far more then 6-8 months of good time. Based on the dates you posted, he received around 2 years of good time. He does get credit for time he spent in the community and previous sanction time which lowered it to the 400 or so days you mentioned.

So some rough math to explain it. He was sentenced to 6 years of prison and 12 or 18 months of community custody. He gets 1/3 off for good time and releases. He several violations and is sent back to finish the last two years of prison.

There is cumulative effect as these violation hearings will count against him when he releases and has to finish his period of community custody.

Parole and Community Custody are two totally seperate sentences under Washington law.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to WA CCO For This Useful Post:
GingerM (04-26-2016)
  #11  
Old 04-28-2016, 07:26 PM
gabbygirl372001's Avatar
gabbygirl372001 gabbygirl372001 is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,859
Thanks: 225
Thanked 662 Times in 431 Posts
Default

They do what they want to do in Washington state. They make their own rules and change them as they see fit. Sorry to here about this because I hear about this sort of thing over and over in the state of Wash.
__________________
Saved the best for last!

every moment together is a blessingand I have faith that he's coming home soon!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-29-2016, 07:20 AM
WA CCO WA CCO is offline
Parole Officer
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 400
Thanks: 55
Thanked 376 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabbygirl372001 View Post
They do what they want to do in Washington state. They make their own rules and change them as they see fit. Sorry to here about this because I hear about this sort of thing over and over in the state of Wash.
The only significant rule changes have been in the offender's favor. As example jail time now capped at 30 days except in OP's case where good time is revoked.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No back to back special visits at Hughes Unit TX Prison lilsista79 Texas Prison and Jail Specific Discussions + Lock Down Status 7 12-14-2011 04:47 PM
My son is home now and going back downhill, I afraid he will go back to prison Bam524 Parents with Children in Prison 23 03-30-2011 07:28 PM
If it was possible to turn back time would you go back to before he went to prison? rodeointx Husbands & Boyfriends in Prison 39 04-04-2010 11:18 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:43 AM.
Copyright © 2001- 2017 Prison Talk Online
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website Design & Custom vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media
Message Board Statistics