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Old 07-17-2019, 05:51 PM
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Default CO stood by & watched inmate kick another inmate unconscious and bleeding!?

My son, who is in a CA state prison, told me that he watched an inmate kick another inmate unconscious and bleeding while a CO stood by and watched. No one got in trouble or was made to stop. The injured inmate was taken away in an ambulance. I don't get this. Does this happen everywhere? My friend is a CO in a Texas prison and she says this does not happen where she is at (CO allowing).
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:48 PM
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I can't say it happens everywhere, but neither can anyone else. You have to figure in staff turnover and inmate population changes. Prisons, yards, are not static. How something is today, is unlikely to be the way it is six months from now.

But the short answer-- it happens. When I met my husband he was on a "gladiator yard". Staff would bet on who would walk away and who would be carried out.

I also want to reinforce for folks new to our forums that while violence is part of prison culture, I would never (ever, ever) recommend adding it to your list of things to be continuously anxious about. It's there, God willing it's removed from your LO and they're being smart enough to avoid the activities that typically lead to fighting.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:09 PM
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Thats why i told my husband before he left county. Just keep your mouth shut and do your time. Dont comment dont be sarcastic. Just be quite. Dont make them like or dislike you. Just mind your own time and business.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:25 PM
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Violence in prison is especially difficult to deal with as a CO. The totality of the situation needs to be considered when dealing with a fight. What is 2 inmates fighting can suddenly turn into 20 inmates fighting. I am armed with a can of spray and a radio. Caution has to be considered when there is a possibility of dealing with prison shanks.

We wait for proper back up before attempting to stop a fight. In the aftermath, an investigation is done and usually we will get the subject and he will be charged and disciplined.
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Old 07-18-2019, 12:36 AM
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I’m not saying it is appropriate at all, but yes, sometimes things like this happen. Prisons are political. While COs do step in and intervene most of the time, there are obviously going to be situations where they “look the other way.” Maybe they are in on the incident in some way. Maybe they’re paid off. Who knows? The reality is, it’s their word against the inmate’s. Who’s word is going to be taken most of the time?

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Old 07-18-2019, 12:39 AM
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Also as Bikerguy mentioned, the reason can be more innocent. Officer safety is definitely a concern. If there are no other officers to offer backup, an officer might stay out of it for the sake of their own safety.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:37 PM
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Yes, I can understand that. My son tells me they make up their own rules if they can (the CO's), meaning they do not all follow a set standard - example- he got a write-up for missing an anger management class, but the CO didn't come and let him out, and of course he didn't say anything so my son got a warning about it. This experience has def been an eye-opener and my son is def learning self-control. He is barely a level 4 and is trying to steer clear of trouble. He is white and is a minority at Corcoran. I just pray he makes it 2 years in there with no major issues. They are still on a hunger strike in his area- something about SNY inmates putting gross stuff in the food for the Gen Pop inmates. I don't understand how they let SNY's in the kitchen to prepare food for the ones they hate. Even though 2 years in there is not long, it seems long at this point. He just got there a few weeks ago.


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Also as Bikerguy mentioned, the reason can be more innocent. Officer safety is definitely a concern. If there are no other officers to offer backup, an officer might stay out of it for the sake of their own safety.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:42 PM
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Backing up the statement that this is CO protocol in most prisons. If you’re the only guard in the room and you get hurt trying to break up a fight when BOTH could easily turn their attention to you, what happens to the rest of the inmates? You wait for backup and if someone gets KTFO before backup arrives, well, that’s a bummer but it’s better than losing control of an entire unit.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:22 PM
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They are still on a hunger strike in his area- something about SNY inmates putting gross stuff in the food for the Gen Pop inmates. I don't understand how they let SNY's in the kitchen to prepare food for the ones they hate. Even though 2 years in there is not long, it seems long at this point. He just got there a few weeks ago.
Just to clear things up a bit-- SNY and GP inmates are eligible for work detail. Kitchen duty is usually first stop to getting another job. Few people love working in the kitchen, but the extra grub is nice.

In general (and I'm not looking to start a debate, just give a newbie rundown), SNY inmates have far more to fear than GP. SNY= Sensitive Needs Yard, meaning that your typical SNY inmate has charges that make them a target, they're older or medically frail, they are a gang dropout which gives others a green light to harm them. Traditionally, they are the ones with targets on their back.

Level 4's aren't integrated so I'm not sure why this is even a discussion on his yard?
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:55 PM
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When your the one on the outside it’s best if you do what was suggested and not over think it. I always knew violence was a possibility at anytime where he was especially when he was in Max. I also learned that although it does happen the odds are very low that he would be involved in it. There is a great doc on Netflix called the survivors guide to prison. My man has done 15 years during his life and says it’s very true and anyone in the prison system or their family’s should watch it. Good luck odds are on your side he will do fine and be released stay focused and keep him focused on the positive. Try and steer him in the direction of programs or social clubs activities, jobs are great to while they are locked up. I have also heard a lot in hear about if they mind there business, don’t borrow anything , don’t gamble or do drugs and keep their cell clean he should be fine.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by miamac View Post
Just to clear things up a bit-- SNY and GP inmates are eligible for work detail. Kitchen duty is usually first stop to getting another job. Few people love working in the kitchen, but the extra grub is nice.

In general (and I'm not looking to start a debate, just give a newbie rundown), SNY inmates have far more to fear than GP. SNY= Sensitive Needs Yard, meaning that your typical SNY inmate has charges that make them a target, they're older or medically frail, they are a gang dropout which gives others a green light to harm them. Traditionally, they are the ones with targets on their back.

Level 4's aren't integrated so I'm not sure why this is even a discussion on his yard?
Perhaps a bit off topic, sorry, but I just have to chime in on this...because I've wondered about this too. I made the mistake of joining a group on FB where I expected to learn educated facts and news about the integration, but what I found was family members of GP inmates bashing SNY inmates and alleging all kinds of weird stuff that they apparently do...and it just doesn't make sense I don't want to turn this into a debate either but it seems that because GP inmates clearly have so much hatred towards SNY inmates (which I believe is due to sex offences and dropping out of gangs mostly), they probably tell their loved ones one-sided and exaggarated/isolated stories about SNY, and of course if you are new to the prison system and out in the free world, you're going to take your loved one's words for a fact -- and I personally think that is very damaging. The general population (=family members in the free world) appear to think that SNY means Sex Offenders and Sex Offenders only, and that these people are now trying to kill/poison/rape all of the GP population in prisons across CA Seriously...my LO is SNY and while he is not a SO, I would be very embarrassed to post things that hurt other humans with their sons/husbands in prison, no matter what the reason, even sex offences.....so basically I just left that FB group as fast as I could. As much good as those groups can offer it also seems that there are tons of people posting uneducated 'facts' and to me it is scary how fast & easy wrong information gets spread and becomes the truth in people's minds
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:41 AM
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My son is fairly new to all of this and did not know why there was this hunger strike going on in his area when he arrived. Then after a few days he heard bits and pieces. He may very well not know the whole story or has been lied to. But whatever the reason, he is not eating from the kitchen because he was told the ones working in there are putting disgusting things in the food and he doesn't want to get into a fight by going against the strike. I understand this is from his perspective and being new he is trying to stay out of trouble the best he knows. He really wants to get his GED and as much other training as he can get, however, he is having to take an anger management class and sometimes the CO doesn't come and get him so he misses it. He cannot do his mailroom job or GED until he completes this class and if he misses he will get kicked out of it and have to start over. From what I see, rules are very different than what is actually done in there and I think the staff makes the rules as they see fit. It will be a long 2 years. But he is positive about his future.


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Perhaps a bit off topic, sorry, but I just have to chime in on this...because I've wondered about this too. I made the mistake of joining a group on FB where I expected to learn educated facts and news about the integration, but what I found was family members of GP inmates bashing SNY inmates and alleging all kinds of weird stuff that they apparently do...and it just doesn't make sense I don't want to turn this into a debate either but it seems that because GP inmates clearly have so much hatred towards SNY inmates (which I believe is due to sex offences and dropping out of gangs mostly), they probably tell their loved ones one-sided and exaggarated/isolated stories about SNY, and of course if you are new to the prison system and out in the free world, you're going to take your loved one's words for a fact -- and I personally think that is very damaging. The general population (=family members in the free world) appear to think that SNY means Sex Offenders and Sex Offenders only, and that these people are now trying to kill/poison/rape all of the GP population in prisons across CA Seriously...my LO is SNY and while he is not a SO, I would be very embarrassed to post things that hurt other humans with their sons/husbands in prison, no matter what the reason, even sex offences.....so basically I just left that FB group as fast as I could. As much good as those groups can offer it also seems that there are tons of people posting uneducated 'facts' and to me it is scary how fast & easy wrong information gets spread and becomes the truth in people's minds
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:07 AM
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Many times that's how prisons operate, so all he can do is the best he can do under whatever circumstances he faces. The fact that he is trying to be as invisible as possible is a very good approach, especially for new arrivals.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:43 PM
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Yes, I can understand that. My son tells me they make up their own rules if they can (the CO's), meaning they do not all follow a set standard - example- he got a write-up for missing an anger management class, but the CO didn't come and let him out, and of course he didn't say anything so my son got a warning about it. This experience has def been an eye-opener and my son is def learning self-control. He is barely a level 4 and is trying to steer clear of trouble. He is white and is a minority at Corcoran. I just pray he makes it 2 years in there with no major issues. They are still on a hunger strike in his area- something about SNY inmates putting gross stuff in the food for the Gen Pop inmates. I don't understand how they let SNY's in the kitchen to prepare food for the ones they hate. Even though 2 years in there is not long, it seems long at this point. He just got there a few weeks ago.
I've heard this in the past too (at various prisons) and then my SNY husband got a job cooking at Corcoran about a month ago. There is legitimately no way that is happening because they are using huge industrial equipment and cooking each meal for the entire prison population at one time. If they did that, they would be contaminating their own food as well. Plus, they just cook it. They don't serve it nor do they determine what yard gets what serving. It's a good urban legend at best.

Not trying to be confrontational. Just sharing what I've learned about the topic
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:56 AM
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**If they did that, they would be contaminating their own food as well. Plus, they just cook it. They don't serve it nor do they determine what yard gets what serving.***




EXACTLY.


Now as to the point of a CO not responding to a fight, I dont have an answer to that.
Not having another guard there to assist in stopping the fight makes some sense.


adding, as to the CO not letting your son out to attend the classes he's supposed to take.....cant he just tell the *teacher* he was not let out in time? MIght be an issue of right hand, left hand not knowing what needs to be done.





Hope the guy who was kicked is ok.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:19 AM
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The ugly truth is that some COs come on duty and spend time reviewing fights on the video tapes they missed while off duty. Let’s not pretend the sadistic ones aren’t out there. I’m sure some have reasons of safety for not breaking it up. Some are just pigs either paid off by gangs or overall sick in the head. The chances of her son coming into a situation like this are slim but let’s not make the cops sound angelic.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
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My son, who is in a CA state prison, told me that he watched an inmate kick another inmate unconscious and bleeding while a CO stood by and watched. No one got in trouble or was made to stop. The injured inmate was taken away in an ambulance. I don't get this. Does this happen everywhere? My friend is a CO in a Texas prison and she says this does not happen where she is at (CO allowing).
I think it depends. A lot of CO's let things slide and some don't care at all. It is a shame they can't even do their jobs. It is ridiculous men and women on the inside are subjected to this, but it happens all the time. It did in Virginia.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:22 PM
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Just going to throw a scenario out there: 2 man cell, one beating the other, guy on the bottom screaming “he’s killing me!”
Your a lone CO on a unit, you come out your bubble. Every inmate on the unit is screaming “he’s killing him!!”
Here’s your options: immediately pull your keys, go to a 2 man fight. What if the fight was a distraction, now your a hostage, and they have the keys to the unit, keys to the bubble, an open phone line. What someone pulls the hostage’s pin on his radio, causing a full response team, who while responding to an emergency walk into a mass of guys with shanks, can lids, sharp metal from eyeglasses. More hostages, more keys, a few rapes, brutality. No, there are some guys who stay locked in, because not all inmates are bad, some I trust more than coworkers.
Or, you call for backup. You must wait to deal with situation until you have backup, a Sgt, so you do. And everyone thinks you let it go on because you’re cold hearted, monster, or just not human.
It’s not easy choices. We hope and pray to make the right ones and go home, keeping everyone safe. For most of us humans all we want is a decent day. Not power struggles. We want peace. Unfortunately, the ugly staff sticks out.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:39 PM
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Yes, I totally get what you are saying. I don't know all of the details, but I know my son has a compassionate heart and it really bothered him to see what he saw. This is a whole new level of fighting that he's not used to. Praying he makes it for the 2 years he's there and that this is enough to scare him into making better choices and staying clean once he's out.


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Just going to throw a scenario out there: 2 man cell, one beating the other, guy on the bottom screaming “he’s killing me!”
Your a lone CO on a unit, you come out your bubble. Every inmate on the unit is screaming “he’s killing him!!”
Here’s your options: immediately pull your keys, go to a 2 man fight. What if the fight was a distraction, now your a hostage, and they have the keys to the unit, keys to the bubble, an open phone line. What someone pulls the hostage’s pin on his radio, causing a full response team, who while responding to an emergency walk into a mass of guys with shanks, can lids, sharp metal from eyeglasses. More hostages, more keys, a few rapes, brutality. No, there are some guys who stay locked in, because not all inmates are bad, some I trust more than coworkers.
Or, you call for backup. You must wait to deal with situation until you have backup, a Sgt, so you do. And everyone thinks you let it go on because you’re cold hearted, monster, or just not human.
It’s not easy choices. We hope and pray to make the right ones and go home, keeping everyone safe. For most of us humans all we want is a decent day. Not power struggles. We want peace. Unfortunately, the ugly staff sticks out.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:38 PM
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Sounds like he’s getting real already. My best to you, you’re right beside him, support is so important.
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
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Yes, I totally get what you are saying. I don't know all of the details, but I know my son has a compassionate heart and it really bothered him to see what he saw. This is a whole new level of fighting that he's not used to. Praying he makes it for the 2 years he's there and that this is enough to scare him into making better choices and staying clean once he's out.


Prison fights are almost never random.

Either 1.) it’s a dust-up over race (level of danger is low, the guys will fight but the issue is not personal except maybe to a few people who already had a personal beef.)

2.) the inmate snitched and got found out.

3.) the inmate owes a debt and cannot/will not pay.

4.) the inmate took something from or deliberately disrespected another inmate.

The final three can all be avoided, and the fourth is just a fact of life.

If your son doesn’t want to fight he needs to mind his own business and not get caught up in the b.s. That is his decision to make.

As to the hunger strike, enlighten me: why would SNY prisoners deliberately attempt to sabotage the meals of GenPop inmates, most if not all of whom they do not know?

Also, if they are not refusing all meals, it is not a true hunger strike.
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