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  #1  
Old 07-15-2018, 10:31 AM
NYSisEvil NYSisEvil is offline
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Default NYS 2012 ex post facto DUI regulation, lifetime revocation destroying lives

Governor Cuomo, adopted regulations which provided for lifetime revocation of driving licenses when an individual had either 5 DWI or other alcohol related convictions in a 25 year look back period or 3 or 4 DWI or other alcohol related convictions plus what the DMV calls a serious driving offense in that 25 year period. This regulation has, according to the DMV, led to the revocation or delay in issuance of more than 8,000 driver's licenses since the regulation took effect.


They did this without any action by the New York State Legislature, have severely affected the lives of many individuals. Some of these people made mistakes long ago for which they thought they had paid the price.



Its like they don't want people in AA or outpatient or getting jobs they want them hopeless, drinking or doing drugs, contemplating or committing suicide or doing crimes to get money to survive cause no licence means no job alot of the time.


Nothing wrong with punishing people for what they have done but punishing a whole group of people for what some *might* do some day is evil, plain evil.



They say they make exceptions to this ex post facto DMV regulation for "unusual extenuating and compelling circumstances" but so far no one out of thousands has qualified.


How would I get a list of the thousands of people who plead guilty in court after being lied too, told they could have a license back after a certain time period and went to jail and later found out they were subjected to lifetime revocation ? I just know the suicide and overdose death rate in this group of people is massive compared to the national average. I would start by Googling each name followed by the word obituary.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:37 AM
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No one here is going to provide names. Part of our Community Purpose is anonymity and that's what people like most around here.

You can probably try Open Records requests at the courts. All that information should be public record.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:45 AM
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I'm sorry, but driving is a privilege and not a right. I could possibly understand after one or two DUIs, but five or more is excessive. A car is a deadly weapon when under the influence. Obviously, they didn't get the hint to get help the 1st or 2nd time.

You move to an area with transportation. You get a job in those areas.

Only way I could see an amendment is if someone did it young, then went a decade without an issues, full time job.. can prove they are responsible.

Overall, 5 is a lot of DUIs. They went to prison, had the opportunity to do AS, mandated to take a DUI class in prison and still didn't get it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:46 AM
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When one considers that the reality of someone with five convictions having ONLY driven on five occasions while intoxicated is basically nil, the State HAS a duty to the public to take steps to keep the repeat drunk driver from legally being permitted to drive. It is NOT that difficult to avoid getting behind the wheel after drinking.

MOST people get the hint after their first arrest for DWI...those that refuse to take the hint have precisely zero business behind the wheel with a valid license.

I am curious, however, whether OP wants to put this same manner of effort into the claims of ex post facto 'punishment' for the sex offenders now required to register for conduct that may have occurred decades ago and where they had been off paper for many years...and if not, why not.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:10 AM
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From New York State's DMV website: Get another person's records

Using the Freedom of Information Act, rather than requesting a particular individual's name, I'd try requesting a list of all persons that have had their DL permanently revoked. As for whether they were lied to in court or not, that's really sorta subjective. You'll just have to locate them and ask



EDIT: August 24, 2017
SUIT FILED AGAINST NEW YORK DMV FOR LIFETIME BAN ON CERTAIN DRIVERS WHO POSSESS CERTIFICATES OF GOOD CONDUCT

...the policy was previously upheld in Court the revocation policy as it pertains to drivers who have had a Certificate of Good Conduct or a Certificate of Relief from Civil Disabilities issued to them is illegal and violated several provisions of New York State Law according to the lawsuit.


Read article HERE.



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Old 07-15-2018, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexLyn View Post
I am curious, however, whether OP wants to put this same manner of effort into the claims of ex post facto 'punishment' for the sex offenders now required to register for conduct that may have occurred decades ago and where they had been off paper for many years...and if not, why not.



Sex offenders, child molesters, have a pathological condition that cannot be cured. And they can still drive there cars even if the car was used in their offense. They could easyly get fake ID with all the same numbers to avoid showing it.



I am sure people who are subjected to the NYS ex post facto regulation would gladly have "I got caught drinking 3 beers and driving home from the bar" on their license.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by onedayatatime13 View Post
I'm sorry, but driving is a privilege and not a right. I could possibly understand after one or two DUIs, but five or more is excessive. A car is a deadly weapon when under the influence. Obviously, they didn't get the hint to get help the 1st or 2nd time.

You move to an area with transportation. You get a job in those areas.

Only way I could see an amendment is if someone did it young, then went a decade without an issues, full time job.. can prove they are responsible.

Overall, 5 is a lot of DUIs. They went to prison, had the opportunity to do AS, mandated to take a DUI class in prison and still didn't get it.

"Applicants with three or four alcohol/drugged-driving related convictions or incidents within the preceding 25 years, with a serious driving offense will be permanently denied a driver license."

That includes "impaired" one or 2 beers.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

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Old 07-15-2018, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Sex offenders, child molesters, have a pathological condition that cannot be cured.
FALSE.

...but this is not the thread to debate that issue. Just do your research and if you wish to debate sex offenders with me, create a new thread
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onedayatatime13 View Post
I'm sorry, but driving is a privilege and not a right.

Please stop perpetuating that myth.



"Personal liberty, or the Right to enjoyment of life and liberty, is one of the fundamental or natural Rights, which has been protected by its inclusion as a guarantee in the various constitutions, which is not derived from, or dependent on, the U.S. Constitution, which may not be submitted to a vote and may not depend on the outcome of an election. It is one of the most sacred and valuable Rights, as sacred as the Right to private property ... and is regarded as inalienable."
16 C.J.S., Constitutional Law, Sect.202, p.987


"Personal liberty largely consists of the Right of locomotion -- to go where and when one pleases -- only so far restrained as the Rights of others may make it necessary for the welfare of all other citizens. The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horse drawn carriage, wagon, or automobile, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."
II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135



"Personal liberty -- consists of the power of locomotion, of changing situations, of removing one's person to whatever place one's inclination may direct, without imprisonment or restraint unless by due process of law."
Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Black's Law Dictionary, 5th ed.;
Blackstone's Commentary 134; Hare, Constitution__Pg. 777

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Old 07-15-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by NYSisEvil View Post
"Applicants with three or four alcohol/drugged-driving related convictions or incidents within the preceding 25 years, with a serious driving offense will be permanently denied a driver license."

That includes "impaired" one or 2 beers.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
The whole point of your OP is regarding this law? Or are you just trying to get people to debate with you? Driving is a privilege and you abuse it your privilege is taken away. 3-4 DUI's is beyond reckless and I am a drinker who will never drive drunk!!! Honestly how would you feel if the 5th DUI killed your family member???
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:34 AM
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...and then that person who had a 5th dui & killed someone goes to prison. His/her loved ones find us here at PTO and their loved one is.....held to a higher standard than the rest of us?

The following quote is the question the OP has asked, not for a sermon from the choir about right or wrong :

Quote:
How would I get a list of the thousands of people who plead guilty in court after being lied too, told they could have a license back after a certain time period and went to jail and later found out they were subjected to lifetime revocation ? I just know the suicide and overdose death rate in this group of people is massive compared to the national average. I would start by Googling each name followed by the word obituary.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by xolady View Post
Driving is a privilege

Why does the government say that ?


“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - Joseph Goebbels



Below is more of what they don't want the population to know as it bites into there game of using motorists as cash machines in there extortion racket.



Caneisha Mills v. D.C. 2009 “The use of the automobile as a necessary adjunct to the earning of a livelihood in modern life requires us in the interest of realism to conclude that the RIGHT to use an automobile on the public highways partakes of the nature of a liberty within the meaning of the Constitutional guarantees. . .”


Berberian v. Lussier (1958) 139 A2d 869, 872, See also: Schecter v. Killingsworth, 380 P.2d 136, 140; 93 Ariz. 273 (1963). “The right to operate a motor vehicle [an automobile] upon the public streets and highways is not a mere privilege. It is a right of liberty, the enjoyment of which is protected by the guarantees of the federal and state constitutions.”

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Old 07-15-2018, 11:42 AM
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...and then that person who had a 5th dui & killed someone goes to prison. His/her loved ones find us here at PTO and their loved one is.....held to a higher standard than the rest of us?

The following quote is the question the OP has asked, not for a sermon from the choir about right or wrong :

Go to a meeting about MADD they seem to know who gets DUI'S before anyone does.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
The whole point of your OP is regarding this law? Or are you just trying to get people to debate with you? Driving is a privilege and you abuse it your privilege is taken away. 3-4 DUI's is beyond reckless and I am a drinker who will never drive drunk!!! Honestly how would you feel if the 5th DUI killed your family member???

YOUR RIGHT RIGHT TO TRAVEL IS TAKEN AWAY.



Lets see if I understand this, they will drive drunk for a 5th time and risk a huge prison sentence but would never risk a driving with a revoked license charge ?


Anyway this thing is ex post facto, even a five year old knows enough about right and wrong to know it is wrong to make a rule today like no chewing gum in class and then to go back and punish everyone who was chewing gum last week.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:10 PM
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"Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."

You highlighted the text above it, but not this part, which is possibly the piece that can be used in the barring of licenses. "Normal conditions", "decent manner", and interfering with disturbing another's right". They aren't doing it after 4 impaired or DUIs. I'm making the assumption that after so many examples of behavior they use this as presumptive grounds to protect others and themselves.

Look I'm not judging someone, but I don't think this will gain traction due to the number of offenses. I find the certificate of good conduct piece interesting though. Like I said there are and probably should be exceptions.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:19 PM
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Honestly how would you feel if the 5th DUI killed your family member???
The man who chose to drive the night he ran his truck through a crosswalk and over two of the most loving women I've ever known, throwing one back into the sidewalk while dragging the other one fully conscious 50 yards down the street before stopping, backing up and driving away makes me angry. He made a decision while impaired that took one life, forever traumatized the other, and the hundreds of people who knew and loved them have to live with the images of Lucy's funeral and Susan's bruised body in a hospital bed, permanent limp and the physical changes that happen when you witness the violent death of your partner of 13 years. Their dogs had to be rehomed due to the death and the long recovery. The ownership of their home went into question and Susan was asked to leave by the intolerant family of her deceased partner. She had to start over through no choice of her own.

So how does it make me feel that he had a revoked license due to two previous DUI before that night? Outraged. Confused. Devastated. He served three years in state prison. Three years.

I don't think he's evil or that he acted out of malice. But he didn't have the right to use a weapon that night and he chose to do it anyway and the cost was tremendous. I pray that he spends the rest of his life repaying that debt through kindness and selfless acts. He's got a big gap to fill with the life he took.

The Second Amendment states that we, as citizens, have the right to bear arms. And yet, we remove that right from every felon upon conviction. Why? Because it's also a responsibility. Driving is a privilege. It makes life easier. It makes upward movement easier. And yet there are millions of Americans who chose, or cannot afford to drive, and they survive. If you choose to drive and do so recklessly, you do not deserve that privilege.



In honor of Lucy and Susan, please read their story.

Hit and Run Driver Apologizes
Hard Choices on Hard Time
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onedayatatime13 View Post
Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."

You highlighted the text above it, but not this part, which is possibly the piece that can be used in the barring of licenses.

Look I'm not judging someone, but I don't think this will gain traction due to the number of offenses. I find the certificate of good conduct piece interesting though. Like I said there are and probably should be exceptions.



License: When the government takes away your right to do something and then sells it back to you.


This whole thing was ex post facto, if they are allowed to do this whats next do arrest all the people with drug selling charges from 20 years ago long after they did their time for because of today's so called opiate crisis ?


Ex post facto is the debate here.



How many people that did drive after 3 beers never would have done so if they knew the future punishment ?
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:37 PM
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In honor of Lucy and Susan, please read their story.
That was heartbreaking. Im so sorry.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:38 PM
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This whole thing was ex post facto, if they are allowed to do this whats next do arrest all the people with drug selling charges from 20 years ago long after they did their time for because of today's so called opiate crisis ?

Ex post facto is the debate here.

How many people that did drive after 3 beers never would have done so if they knew the future punishment ?
Well, obviously a lot of people if the limit is 3+ DUI.

As for the ex post facto, I would be curious why lawmakers went that route. What are their reasonings? Are their stats significant enough to indicate that the choice to drive drunk, multiple times, after multiple convictions, shows a propensity for...I don't know, call me silly, disregard for the law or a lack of good judgement?
I'd want to know why they made the ruling ex post facto before waging a war against it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
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The man who chose to drive the night he ran his truck

Some people suck at driving even sober. People crash sober all the time.

I haven't hurt anyone, in fact I turned it all around got sober and was helping others. But since they are going to trash my whole life anyway I should just go about hurting anyone who gets in my way cause there is no justice in this world.


If I am going to be pushed for something I haven't done I SHOULD hurt someone to get even.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:44 PM
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If I am going to be pushed for something I haven't done I SHOULD hurt someone to get even.
Look at the reasons the law was made ex post facto and get back to me.

Your comment might support their findings.

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Old 07-15-2018, 12:54 PM
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Look at the reasons the law was made ex post facto and get back to me.

Your reasoning might support their findings.

Look at the reasons ex post facto is unconstitutional.



You simply don't destroy 10,000 peoples lives because a dozen of them might hurt someone someday.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:56 PM
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:58 PM
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“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do.”


Benjamin Franklin
"That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer"

-Benjamin Franklin
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:01 PM
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You simply don't destroy 10,000 peoples lives because a dozen of them might hurt someone someday.
Have you ever been without a car? I have. Many times. I live on a shoestring budget and when my car isn't running, I don't have one. My life was not destroyed. Inconvenienced, but certainly not destroyed.
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