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  #51  
Old 01-08-2016, 10:00 AM
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Default extremism sux

Oh, no, you're absolutely right. We can keep them locked up for quite some time... but here's YOUR challenge then --- You can have YOUR way if you can find a way to make it cost less than $100,000 a year to do it.... then you can keep them locked up indefinitely. And it can't involve the death penalty.... there's your return challenge..... come at me....


Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexLyn View Post
The question remains...what exactly do you propose to do with those that are simply anti-social and don't give a damn. No amount of 'therapy and rehabilitation' is going to help them. They are a legitimate threat to the loved ones of others, no matter whether that loved one is a felon or an employee.

Further, classes and trades are not a be-all, end-all in ANY sense of the expectation...they don't reduce in-prison violence and it does not overcome the hurdles of FINDING employment post-release.

If you want an idea of what happens when you throw open the doors in the hopes that ALL of the population will get in circles and sing kumbayah, then just look at Texas in the early 80's when the federal courts mandated an end to building tenders. If you don't have the ability to house violent offenders away from the general population, you are just inviting problems for everyone...

If you do not have an alternate proposal, then you are no different than the wingnuts clamoring on campuses for a free education for everyone but offer no plans on how to pay for it.
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  #52  
Old 01-08-2016, 10:05 AM
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stop taking everybody and anybody with a social security number ..... end mandatory minimums. stop SHU.... How about cutting SOMEBODY a frikkin break? My son wasn't even BORN when all these horrible life altering laws were created!! His crime was NOT murder, but that's how they classify it - did somehow black get blacker? When? Where was HIS vote for or against MM? Nowhere... but he gets to suffer? What about the idiot underage drinker that killed 4 people and got a slap on the wrist, but the samekind of guy, only a few years older, gets 15 - life for aggravated assault and gets 15 - life with no recourse??? YOu're full of crap, bubba....

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Originally Posted by safran View Post
"How about instead of breaking up families and personal relationships, that they foster and encourage them?"


Just who do you think is breaking up families and personal relationships? I think it's the inmates doing this; committing crimes and going to prisons breaks entire lives up. Stop committing crimes. Stop getting arrested. Stop going to prison. Stop blaming others.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:44 AM
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To claim that someone shouldn't have to abide by the rules just because they didn't get to vote on those specific rules is absolutely absurd. Most of us weren't born when most laws were created but we still have to live by them.

MOST of our loved ones knew the law and broke the law. Whether or not they knew they sentencing for that law is a different subject but they DID know there were consequences for their actions.

There have been several men locked away in SHU or solitary for decades. Treated poorly and unfairly. Some of them for very legitimate reasons (killing inmates or staff at every opportunity, multiple escape risks...I will not name names as I do not want it to sound like I am bad talking inmates) and some for bullshit such as pissing off the staff or their release date coming up and BOP looking for reasons to keep them ie Gary Yarbrough. Regardless of the reason I believe they should have weekly rec time and talks with the chaplain if they so choose. If they cannot behave during these activities then I have no sympathy at all and they can remain in solitary since they obviously can't control themselves.

Everyone knows the justice system in America is fucked all the way around! BUT most of these people DID know what they were doing and did know there would be consequences for their actions.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:46 AM
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Exactly
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Originally Posted by Abi View Post
Wow. This is a contentious subject. reading through this thread I admit to getting very pissed a few times. I took some time and found that I do appreciate the different views on the topic. I had not considered the complexity of the issue. It seems to me that the thread was started by a few people who felt that solitary confinement was overused and abused by correctional facilities. I commend those people and hope they continue to search for ways to help fix this issue because overused and abused it is. I understand that there is a time and place for solitary confinement, whether it is used in the short time as a "timeout" or for temporary safety issues, or whether it is the longtime confinement of a man (or woman) who poses a real threat to the population around them. However, in my experience (with my fiance) solitary confinement has been used to punish the "other" and to break the spirit (stated outright to him by the director of the facility during his three years solitary confinement awaiting trial). The ability to confine another to solitary confinement is power, and those wielding that power are humans and are therefore subject to failings of humans. I would like to see more transparent regulations regarding the use of solitary confinement.

In regards to convicts such as Tommy Silverstein; I feel it is important to ensure we as a public do not become the criminals we condemn. He apparently sees no value in human life, does that mean we should not? He took lives seemingly without remorse or reflection, should we therefore do the same? How does this solve or fix anything? When does the punishment become sufficient? He is on suicide watch as well, so for those who state his victims are dead and he is alive, do we truly not even have the decency to allow him to die? And if we determine that he must live, because.. why? Whats the point of his life at his point besides to punish him, but if we determine he must live to carry out his punishment, what truly, is the harm in allowing him to go outside? Are we that ill as a society that we enjoy emulating the criminals we condemn. Pain passed on to another does not heal. The circumstances Tommy Silverstien and others like him are condemned to live in holds a mirror up to our society as a whole. Have we truly embraced the values of these men? It appears we might have.
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  #55  
Old 01-08-2016, 11:15 AM
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I'm not suggesting they do..... as I have already asked... when did black become blacker? That we had to increase sentencing by DOUBLE .... ? .... it didn't --- someones empty pockets did. As long as there are profits being made off of imprisonment, everything they do is nothing more than legalized slavery in a brand new dress.....

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Originally Posted by Sinir.Fridyrr View Post
To claim that someone shouldn't have to abide by the rules just because they didn't get to vote on those specific rules is absolutely absurd. Most of us weren't born when most laws were created but we still have to live by them.

MOST of our loved ones knew the law and broke the law. Whether or not they knew they sentencing for that law is a different subject but they DID know there were consequences for their actions.

There have been several men locked away in SHU or solitary for decades. Treated poorly and unfairly. Some of them for very legitimate reasons (killing inmates or staff at every opportunity, multiple escape risks...I will not name names as I do not want it to sound like I am bad talking inmates) and some for bullshit such as pissing off the staff or their release date coming up and BOP looking for reasons to keep them ie Gary Yarbrough. Regardless of the reason I believe they should have weekly rec time and talks with the chaplain if they so choose. If they cannot behave during these activities then I have no sympathy at all and they can remain in solitary since they obviously can't control themselves.

Everyone knows the justice system in America is fucked all the way around! BUT most of these people DID know what they were doing and did know there would be consequences for their actions.
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  #56  
Old 01-08-2016, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieOfNE View Post
Oh, no, you're absolutely right. We can keep them locked up for quite some time... but here's YOUR challenge then --- You can have YOUR way if you can find a way to make it cost less than $100,000 a year to do it.... then you can keep them locked up indefinitely. And it can't involve the death penalty.... there's your return challenge..... come at me....
1) I do not believe the $100K per annum figure
2) even if presumed to be correct, I have no issue with spending that to house a select few in an environment where they cannot harm ANOTHER person
3) personally, I have no qualms with the use of the death penalty in cases where someone in custody kills another person with malice aforethought.
4) the reference in another post to the Couch case illustrates how little you actually know about Texas jurisprudence and you ignore the fact that MANY adults have ALSO been placed on probation in that sort of scenario.
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  #57  
Old 01-10-2016, 02:27 PM
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solitary watch says----
$78k and UP.
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:29 PM
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I doubt a website called solitary watch could possibly be unbiased. Just an observation...
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  #59  
Old 08-27-2016, 12:09 AM
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I've read about one institution which takes violent inmates to group therapy sessions where they practice basic human interaction skills. The institution has no illusions and shackles them to the floor out of reach of each other. That program is an example of protecting safety and providing a way out.

For the times when they are locked in their cells and for those who can't or won't learn, safety would still allow for the basic sensory input that's a core human need.

I'll go with what the doctors tell me about what core human needs are. I can't post links yet, but if you ask Google to include "psychology" in a search about solitary confinement, some expert studies are near the top of the results.
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:32 AM
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Oh I'm sure they are, just like CNN, WSJ, et al.
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Old 08-27-2016, 07:43 PM
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One good Google search is
solitary site:apa.org
which will show you what the American Psychology Association has online.

For what a correctional officer thinks, this is from someone who knows more about prison safety than almost everyone here, Google "Rick Raemisch".
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Old 08-27-2016, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
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For what a correctional officer thinks, this is from someone who knows more about prison safety than almost everyone here, Google "Rick Raemisch".
At least you qualified it as 'almost.'
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Old 08-29-2016, 12:05 PM
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At least you qualified it as 'almost.'
I thought carefully about my choice of words there.
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:20 PM
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Meanwhile, there's been a change at the Federal level. The BOP says they will stop giving people in 6x10 SMU cells roommates. According to The Marshall Project, 18 states are continuing to do "double solitary".
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Old 09-23-2016, 05:02 PM
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On the one hand, this guy did perpetrate an escape attempt and took a hostage.

On the other hand, that was so long ago that some people born that day are grandparents now. He's still in isolation.

No matter what, Pennsylvania's stated policies sure look different from what's actually happened.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2...el-and-unusual
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safran View Post
That's my question too. I personally know somebody that did kill another inmate, tried to kill a few more and he stabbed a staff member. He boasts about it and freely talks about who else he would have killed if he'd had a chance. His attacks were all hate crimes.

You want him walking around with your loved one?
I totally understand but then you talk about people like John Jay Powers who has been at ADX Supermax prison in solitary confinement for over 12 years for bank robbery and a previous escape from a prison he was at 13 years ago. While being in solitary confinement he has amputated fingers, one of his testicles, mutilated his scrotum, and tried to commit suicide many times. He had no previous mental illness until after being in solitary confinement after some years. Solitary confinement should be used to house only the most dangerous inmates that pose life threatening violence on other inmates or guards. Mr. Powers by no means deserves the punishment he has received. The crime does not fit the punishment in my opinion, whatsoever. You're talking about being housed in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day without seeing the sky for over 12 years. Being housed in the same way as the unabomber, the World Trade Center bomber, and a plethora of other murderous terrorist. Its completely unfair and so sad. Solitary confinement should be high scrutinized and clear guidelines should be implemented.
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Old 10-13-2016, 03:07 PM
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I totally understand but then you talk about people like John Jay Powers who has been at ADX Supermax prison in solitary confinement for over 12 years for bank robbery and a previous escape from a prison he was at 13 years ago. While being in solitary confinement he has amputated fingers, one of his testicles, mutilated his scrotum, and tried to commit suicide many times. He had no previous mental illness until after being in solitary confinement after some years. Solitary confinement should be used to house only the most dangerous inmates that pose life threatening violence on other inmates or guards. Mr. Powers by no means deserves the punishment he has received. The crime does not fit the punishment in my opinion, whatsoever. You're talking about being housed in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day without seeing the sky for over 12 years. Being housed in the same way as the unabomber, the World Trade Center bomber, and a plethora of other murderous terrorist. Its completely unfair and so sad. Solitary confinement should be high scrutinized and clear guidelines should be implemented.
Administrators with degrees in penology and shelves full of references should be able to prevent even the Aryan Brotherhood types from killing any more people and still treat them with minimal, Spartan humanity.

I'm OK if someone like Clayton Fountain is never trusted with others again and I won't even argue if you think he should have faced a needle. I'm not OK with driving someone slowly insane, not in my name.
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Old 12-24-2016, 04:29 PM
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A step-down program in Michigan improved working conditions for the correctional officers. One in Maine resulted in worker's comp claims dropping 80%.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2...ime#.bUZ25XOn2
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:04 PM
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It's certainly not the place I would have gone for correctional management information, but GQ magazine just had a fascinating roundup of many quotes about conditions and impacts of solitary. http://www.gq.com/story/buried-alive...ry-confinement

Below I'm quoting a small fraction of the article.

Just to be different, I'll excerpt some things from the point of view of correctional officers and about how inmates treat them. They're working for me -- I want them to be safe.

Quote:
In the state of Colorado, just one man remains in indefinite solitary confinement. "We all have our Hannibal Lecters. He's mine," Raemisch told me. "He has said, 'I will come out if you want me to, but if I do, I will kill someone'."
Quote:
Lutalo: The feces thing—that's a common practice. Some mentally ill prisoners would defecate in the shower. Some would put their feces on the dinner tray and pass it back.
Quote:
Gregory Koger (over 7 years in solitary): They used to give you these little pens called security pens, a tiny ink cartridge in this clear plastic tube. You could connect those tubes together to make a hose. I've heard of guys who made a long-ass hose to the guy that's in the cell next to him and shot him down with piss and shit. They would do it to COs [correctional officers], too.
Quote:
No one involved with mass incarceration escapes being dehumanized by it. That includes COs, who experience high rates of depression, domestic violence, substance abuse, and suicide. A third of them suffer from PTSD. "Going into hell for decades at a time will wear you out," says Lance Lowry, president of AFSCME Local 3807, a CO union in Huntsville, Texas. There is reason to believe that these effects may be even more pronounced in COs assigned to isolation units.
Quote:
Officer Justin Cooper (correctional officer at Pelican Bay for 23 years): To send these people back into the general population creates some feelings of apprehension. These people have power and influence. They will undoubtedly be out there recruiting. A lot of them don't even have to carry out the crime anymore. It might be as simple as hanging his rain jacket on the pull-up bar— that's the signal for his entire gang to attack every person on that yard.

Sergeant Drew Powell (correctional officer at Pelican Bay for 18 years): (❖11) One long-term inmate has an uncanny ability to make weapons out of almost anything. He accessed his plumbing chase and got hold of the steel hose clamps. He used that as a cutter to score the mild steel in his cell and make a stout weapon. He colored soap and pasted it into the void where he cut metal out. Now he's going to the general population—a Disneyland of way more things than a SHU inmate can get his hands on.

❖11. This officer requested a pseudonym for his and his family’s protection.


Cooper: If these people were able to get my earlobe off me by biting me, they'd wear that as a badge. They are in restraints, but they train to get out of them from the very first day. People with hep C brew cups of feces and throw it into your face. These people have been known to remove one cord at a time out of their elastic boxers, so that we don't notice it during the cell search, to make a bow. (❖12) They are constantly assessing you by asking you questions that they already know the answer to, to feel you out, to check your ego, see if you'll admit that you don't know, see if you care enough that you will find out. They're trying to figure out your strengths and weaknesses. Maybe they're even listening to see if you have money problems.

❖12. Lance Lowry, the union president, told GQ a colleague had to be life-flighted after being struck by a metal-tipped paper spear fired from an improvised bow.

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Old 03-10-2017, 03:11 PM
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Solitary is a very big issue in Canada these days, both in provincial jails and federal prisons. A number of reports have detailed the over-use of solitary, and for the wrong reasons, violating over and over the 'rules' that the system has in place to regulate this practice but apparently doesn't itself observe. (That's a lot of my experience of jails - they use the rules when they want to, and ignore them when they choose to do that also.) Both the national and Ontario governments have committed to reducing solitary use - which has already happened in federal prisons to some degree. Lots more to do there. If anyone is interested I could provide some media reports, or you can google them using 'solitary confinement (or segregation), jails, Canada (or Ontario).

I'd also suggest that a big reason for overuse of seg (where I spent 3 weeks myself apparently for my own safety) is that jails are just too crowded. If we stopped putting people in jail who don't need to be there, we'd vastly reduce crowding and that would in turn dramatically reduce the need for seg. BTW, prison guard unions here are also very concerned about overcrowding as they see it as a big safety hazard for their members.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:20 PM
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Hey kind of new here. Wanted to know what can i do in order to help my husband out of SHU being that hes in there for no real reason
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:42 PM
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Hey kind of new here. Wanted to know what can i do in order to help my husband out of SHU being that hes in there for no real reason

What agency and what is the reason given for the placement? A family member claiming 'no real reason' is not a valid basis for appealing the placement...
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:09 AM
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He's at Fishkill Correctional Facility. He's in the shu because he received a ticket for filing a grievance on an officer . And when he went to the hearing they sent him to the shu
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:52 AM
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Prison discipline is usually administered in a kangaroo court, so fairness to the inmates is rarely a consideration. I think Jim Croce was singing about prisons "don't spit into the wind or tug on Superman's cape."

In federal prisons, the inmates are marked as "complainers" in their administrative files, which never changes. Tell him to choose his battles carefully.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:40 PM
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In some of the private prisons where unauthorized immigrants are kept, mentally ill inmates are being placed in solitary. A records request also turned up people being placed in the hole for minor infractions or in one case for no reason the person documenting it could understand.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/10/14...-corecivic-geo

A lot of the people in segregation are there because they requested protective custody.
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