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  #1  
Old 12-23-2017, 07:19 AM
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Default Visitation update

I went to visit my dad today. Overall the process was incredibly terrifying.. The first guards we met were rude to my sister and I even after knowing that we had never been there or through this process before. Having your finger prints taken, eyes scanned and going through large machines was ridiculously intimidating and my anxiety was going through the room. I was surprised seeing so many young children visiting at the prison.. it made me feel a bit pathetic because a 7 year old could handle it but I was constantly holding back tears and pinching myself when things got overwhelming. When we finally made it to visit dad, i was so excited when I saw the back of his bald shinny head. We walked fastly to him because we thought running would get us in trouble and we gave him a hug.. he was so happy to see us. He started tearing up when he saw us and said he was so happy to see us.. In 20 years I've never seen my father cry before. He has hammered a nail into his thumb nail and not even shed a tear.. seeing him tear up 3 times throughout the visit broke my heart.. It was like being in jail had broken my father. One of the strongest people that I had ever known. The visit went really quick and I wish It was longer.. he didn't really speak much about how it was like in there, he seemed to avoid the topic but he said he was having really bad anxiety and panic attacks. I hate the feeling of not being able to help him.. i can't do anything about his anxiety. I cant even do anything about him being stuck in there. and for some reason he isn't receiving our letters that we are sending him. We've sent him three letters so far, two containing money and he received the money but not the letters...? So he doesn't have our phone numbers still. I miss being able to contact my dad. Although it is something that I took for granted, I miss being able to pick up the phone and just talk to him or just go to his house. He was the one that always "protected" me. When people were harrasing me in town he'd come and pick me up and tell them to bugger off. He was the one that always helped me when I had problems with work or uni. When my mum got sick he was there helping and supporting us every step of the way. He would always protect me and knowing that he was a phone call away would always make me feel safe... And now. I can't even contact him through letters because he doesn't get them. I know he's not okay, so I'm trying to be strong for him. I nearly started crying during the visit and it made him start tearing up and I felt horrible. I just wish I could make him feel okay. I wish I could take this all away or somehow make him feel more comfortable in there. And he's lost 7 kilos and he's been in there for a week... Are they even feeding him? Or is he not eating? I saw him today and he had lost so much weight.. I really miss him. I know this will one day be the "norm".. but I just really miss the old norm.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:17 AM
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Since he's so new, it may be that he cant go to canteen yet. (assuming they have canteen in the prison he's in)
I dont understand about the letters tho. He should be receiving those. MIght be able to give a call at some point and ask about why that might be.

In regards to staff acting like jerks.
Yeah. They can really come off like that. I try when interacting with them (or rather tried) to be as stoic and serious as they were. Meaning if I had any questions I'd try to frame it as simple as possible. Its ok to say to them, Im sorry Im new at visiting a prison. At least it makes them aware and the nicer ones will tone it down a bit.

I did notice before that many visitors would ask the same questions. I'd imagine they get tired of answering each and every one, everytime.So I tried to cut them a bit of slack.

Im glad you got to visit. Im SURE it helped out your Dad, and you.
Try to visit when you can, but you dont have to do it if you are short on funds, or busy with life on the outside. Just keep writing and visit when you can.

(you might also include your dads # on the pages of the letters. Just in case the envelope and the letter get separated. They will know who it was intended for. Do the same with any photos you might send)
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:29 AM
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The first visit is always the worst. Always. Your Dad is not broken, but he is ... discovering how quickly one can lose control of one's life. I'm not saying it's his fault either, I'm just saying that we putter along through life thinking we have these oh-so-daunting problems and then one day we're effectively being held hostage.

It is not trivial to adjust to living inside. It is not trivial to adjust to having someone you love inside. I believe that psychologically (for both parties), it's very similar to missing persons, and the grieving that happens when a loved one goes missing. First there is the "they'll be back, they can't be gone" stage. Then there's the "Lord, please don't let them be gone" stage. Then there's the "I don't want this, I don't like this, please make it stop" stage. Eventually, things settle out, but it can take time.

And as hard as it was for you to witness, it's good that your Dad could cry when he saw you. It's good that he loves you enough to have missed you that much. It's good that he had a little bit of time with people he could trust. He will be able to hold that to his heart when the system starts getting to him.

I wish I could tell you what's going on with your mail. I would definitely call and find out what the problem is. So far as I know, this is also true in Oz: the Postmaster General is in charge of all mail. If the prison is holding his mail against regulations, the PG can investigate and fine them, and send individuals to prison for interfering with the proper delivery of mail. (My Dad had to threaten the mail room with doing exactly this when they were keeping 3 of the 4 weekly magazines that I'd subscribed him to - he'd get one per month instead of one per week) I would hold that in my back pocket though and try very hard to figure out if you're doing something wrong, if you're writing something that the prison defines as contraband, if it's on the wrong kind of paper, etc.

I would also make certain you have a copy of every letter you send to him, so you can resend them. I always typed my letters and saved them to my computer. The only thing I hand wrote was little notes of no consequence or significance.

Would you be willing to tell us which prison he's at? We may be able to do some digging and find the mail rules online for you.

I'm proud of you for facing your fears and going anyway. I've seen people get so scared that they would get back in their cars and leave. My uncle, had I not been with him, probably would have left. He was terrified - and he's a big burly manly man.

As for the guards, the more you visit, the more you'll realize that some are nice, some are just putting in their hours so they can go home, and some are bullies. The most terrifying guard I met was actually one of the nicest ones, but she (yes, she) had a manner to her that, I don't know, kind of like your mom calling you by your full name? She radiated "don't f*** with me" vibes, but if you were civil and courteous, she would respond in kind. Try to remember that when they go to work, there is a very real chance of them not coming home, and many of them carry their stress by lashing out. It's certainly not a job I would want or could do.

That said, yes, they're part of the package and you'll have to deal with them over and over again. Always ask a guard if it's okay to do something before you assume it's okay. If you ask, they'll be much kinder to you. They have to worry about people trying to bring all kinds of things into the prison, their job is to protect everyone (inmate and staff alike). People who do unexpected things put them on high alert. Ask first, thank them for their answer. If you go to visit often enough, they'll get to know you and you may even find that you build a rapport with some of them.

My Dad died of cancer while he was still in. I had numerous guards, some of whom I'd never met, take me aside to tell me they were very sorry to hear of my Dad's diagnosis. The one I mentioned above who was both nice and terrifying? She told one of my Dad's friends to tell me she was very sorry to hear when my Dad died - that the rules wouldn't let her tell me in person or by mail, but to please let me know. They aren't all bad, but that first experience? Yeah, it's intimidating. The second one will be less intimidating. By the 30th time you've gone, it will be like standing in line at the grocery store - just one more thing you have to do in life.

It's okay to cry during visitation. It's okay to miss him like crazy. My Dad was not always a nice man (that's an understatement), but I still missed him. Sounds like you have a very tight relationship with your Dad. You may find that this experience only brings you closer together. The things he held back before because he didn't want you to think him 'weak' or 'effeminate' will come to the fore during visitation.

I'm very glad you went. I'm very glad you got through it. It will get easier each time. I promise.

Thank you for updating us.
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GingerM View Post
The first visit is always the worst. Always. Your Dad is not broken, but he is ... discovering how quickly one can lose control of one's life. I'm not saying it's his fault either, I'm just saying that we putter along through life thinking we have these oh-so-daunting problems and then one day we're effectively being held hostage.

It is not trivial to adjust to living inside. It is not trivial to adjust to having someone you love inside. I believe that psychologically (for both parties), it's very similar to missing persons, and the grieving that happens when a loved one goes missing. First there is the "they'll be back, they can't be gone" stage. Then there's the "Lord, please don't let them be gone" stage. Then there's the "I don't want this, I don't like this, please make it stop" stage. Eventually, things settle out, but it can take time.

And as hard as it was for you to witness, it's good that your Dad could cry when he saw you. It's good that he loves you enough to have missed you that much. It's good that he had a little bit of time with people he could trust. He will be able to hold that to his heart when the system starts getting to him.

I wish I could tell you what's going on with your mail. I would definitely call and find out what the problem is. So far as I know, this is also true in Oz: the Postmaster General is in charge of all mail. If the prison is holding his mail against regulations, the PG can investigate and fine them, and send individuals to prison for interfering with the proper delivery of mail. (My Dad had to threaten the mail room with doing exactly this when they were keeping 3 of the 4 weekly magazines that I'd subscribed him to - he'd get one per month instead of one per week) I would hold that in my back pocket though and try very hard to figure out if you're doing something wrong, if you're writing something that the prison defines as contraband, if it's on the wrong kind of paper, etc.

I would also make certain you have a copy of every letter you send to him, so you can resend them. I always typed my letters and saved them to my computer. The only thing I hand wrote was little notes of no consequence or significance.

Would you be willing to tell us which prison he's at? We may be able to do some digging and find the mail rules online for you.

I'm proud of you for facing your fears and going anyway. I've seen people get so scared that they would get back in their cars and leave. My uncle, had I not been with him, probably would have left. He was terrified - and he's a big burly manly man.

As for the guards, the more you visit, the more you'll realize that some are nice, some are just putting in their hours so they can go home, and some are bullies. The most terrifying guard I met was actually one of the nicest ones, but she (yes, she) had a manner to her that, I don't know, kind of like your mom calling you by your full name? She radiated "don't f*** with me" vibes, but if you were civil and courteous, she would respond in kind. Try to remember that when they go to work, there is a very real chance of them not coming home, and many of them carry their stress by lashing out. It's certainly not a job I would want or could do.

That said, yes, they're part of the package and you'll have to deal with them over and over again. Always ask a guard if it's okay to do something before you assume it's okay. If you ask, they'll be much kinder to you. They have to worry about people trying to bring all kinds of things into the prison, their job is to protect everyone (inmate and staff alike). People who do unexpected things put them on high alert. Ask first, thank them for their answer. If you go to visit often enough, they'll get to know you and you may even find that you build a rapport with some of them.

My Dad died of cancer while he was still in. I had numerous guards, some of whom I'd never met, take me aside to tell me they were very sorry to hear of my Dad's diagnosis. The one I mentioned above who was both nice and terrifying? She told one of my Dad's friends to tell me she was very sorry to hear when my Dad died - that the rules wouldn't let her tell me in person or by mail, but to please let me know. They aren't all bad, but that first experience? Yeah, it's intimidating. The second one will be less intimidating. By the 30th time you've gone, it will be like standing in line at the grocery store - just one more thing you have to do in life.

It's okay to cry during visitation. It's okay to miss him like crazy. My Dad was not always a nice man (that's an understatement), but I still missed him. Sounds like you have a very tight relationship with your Dad. You may find that this experience only brings you closer together. The things he held back before because he didn't want you to think him 'weak' or 'effeminate' will come to the fore during visitation.

I'm very glad you went. I'm very glad you got through it. It will get easier each time. I promise.

Thank you for updating us.
Ive heard of that before actually. But I've never lost someone before so this grieving process is unfamiliar to me. I tried googling it when someone first mentioned it on this app so now I have a general understanding about it.

I know it's good, I'm glad he's finally showing emotion and that now he isn't taking us for granted as much as he used to. But it's just under these circumstances.. but I don't really see it as a good thing. It just makes me concerned about him even more... they had him on suicide watch at first because he said that he'd rather kill himself than go to prison for a crime that he didn't commit.

I was going to call but it's currently Christmas.. one of the letters we even payed extra so it would get sent quicker.. We thought that maybe since it was Christmas that they're taking longer to process all the letters? Because it's Christmas.. I actually am going to start having a copy of each letter. I never did that before but that seems smart. I feel like typing doesn't add a personal touch to the letter so I might just photo copy the pages.


He's currently at yatala labour prison. I've tried to Google things but honestly I feel like Im just going round and round in circles. Like there's a page that says we are allowed to send him packages but it doesn't tell us what packages we are able to send.. I've spent so much time on the yatala website and the correctional services SA website that it's not even funny.


I tried to just focus on all the new "exciting" things that there were to see and tried to take all emotions out of it because at the end of the day I knew it needed to be done. I knew he needed me to be strong.


Yeah, I've tried being understanding of that because it's just like police officers, some are bad, some are good but at the end of the day we need to listen to them. But when I'm trying to hold back tears and keep my mental sanity and then a guard screams at us for sitting down in the room where you register, 3 minutes early... They told us to wait until 1 and so we did but we got screamed at. It's a bit shit. But I guess I'll just have to get used to them unfortunately.

I'm so sorry about your dad.. if you ever need to talk about it, I'm here. Do prisoners get good medical help? Because my father was told by the doctor to get his anxiety together or else they'd lock him in the "glass room"??? And that he'd be forced to have injections.. isn't that unethical? Surely they don't lose all their rights in prison where it becomes ethical to forcefully give someone medication.

I feel like it will. I just hope he makes it out of there alive.. I'm quite annoyed with the jail itself. My dad was admitted into hospital after his court hearing because he full on collapsed and they didn't even tell us.. How stupid is that? I'm not happy with the system that this government has at all. Just because they go to jail doesn't mean that no one cares about them.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:17 AM
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they had him on suicide watch at first because he said that he'd rather kill himself than go to prison for a crime that he didn't commit.
This is actually fairly common (both the suicide watch, and people initially threatening or attempting suicide). My dad tried to kill himself (with a gun) during his arrest. He spent about 10 days in a suicide watch cell in jail. He never threatened suicide again. Most people who manage to commit suicide in prison (and it's pretty rare, so please don't start worrying about that) don't tell anyone, and they go to rather long creative processes to do so. Typically a person who ends up in a suicide watch cell was in extreme duress and wasn't thinking clearly when they made the threat or attempt. After they've calmed down a little bit, they lose the desire to end their lives.

Quote:
He's currently at yatala labour prison. I've tried to Google things but honestly I feel like Im just going round and round in circles. Like there's a page that says we are allowed to send him packages but it doesn't tell us what packages we are able to send.. I've spent so much time on the yatala website and the correctional services SA website that it's not even funny.
Yeah, it's difficult to find information online. I do suggest you call them to find out what ALL the rules are. Oregon's site just says what the envelopes have to be like and how many pages of paper can be in each envelope. But later, you find out that you can't list the names of personnel, have to have your complete name in the return address (not just an initial for the first name), can't send 'blank paper' (which is interpreted rather loosely by the mail room personnel, in my opinion), sometimes sticky notes get through, other times they don't, etc. And it seems to vary not only institution to institution, but from one staff member to another. Unfortunately, this is the reality. I've sent identical mailings to 4 inmates at 3 different prisons, had 3 of the mailings go through just fine and one of the mailings get returned to me. The staff know that we outmates generally aren't going to complain, so they... don't always care.

Speaking of which, just in case you were considering this: if you complain about anything having to do with your Dad or make yourself a nuisance to the staff in general, even if what you're actually doing is trying to make them do their jobs properly, your Dad will bear the fallout. The staff will begin finding stupid little things to pick on him about. He'll be under heavy scrutiny. In other words, complain too much, and you make him a target for the staff. You need to try to keep him as invisible as possible also. That means not making a fuss over anything unless you think it's life-threatening. Despite the problems I encountered with the system and my Dad, the only time I "made a fuss" was when he was dying and in hospital and I was trying to get his will signed before he died. I navigated it, but I took some pretty big chances in doing so. I figured he was already dying, there wasn't much more the staff could do to him at that point. I nearly had my visiting privileges permanently revoked, but managed to (very nicely) point out that the officer I was in the pissing match with had no control over who was in the hospital corridor outside my Dad's room. You need to stay below the radar as much as he does. When you call to ask about the specifics of mail, do not identify yourself or your Dad unless asked specifically to do so. Then only give the information the person asks you for and no more.

I did some digging for mail rules. Often the prison websites only summarize what the rules & regulations by law are. Eventually I managed to find the actual law online. Here's a link, it covers all kinds of stuff. For mail, you want to go to section 33.

https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ...82.48.AUTH.PDF

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But when I'm trying to hold back tears and keep my mental sanity and then a guard screams at us for sitting down in the room where you register, 3 minutes early... They told us to wait until 1 and so we did but we got screamed at. It's a bit shit. But I guess I'll just have to get used to them unfortunately.
It is shitty of them. And you will learn. You will learn to do exactly as they say about some things, and to wait extra time for others. This type of thing is what I meant when I spoke of the "unofficial rules". Every prison has them, and they're different from prison to prison and sometimes from guard to guard. Unfortunately, it's part of what we outmates have to learn. Just like your Dad is learning how to be an inmate, you're learning how to be an outmate. And it's a painful learning curve for both of you.

Quote:
Do prisoners get good medical help? Because my father was told by the doctor to get his anxiety together or else they'd lock him in the "glass room"??? And that he'd be forced to have injections.. isn't that unethical? Surely they don't lose all their rights in prison where it becomes ethical to forcefully give someone medication.
Overall, in my experience, the level of medical care is lower than what we get outside the fence. Obviously, I only know about Oregon prisons, so maybe it's different in S. Oz, but I doubt it. The problem is that many inmates make up stuff so they can go to medical and get out of work or take a day off or try to get something they aren't entitled to. In other words, they're scamming the system (surprise! inmates scamming!). This means that medical sees all kinds of fake complaints and they don't believe an inmate right away.

My Dad was on blood thinners, so he had to go to medical daily to get his medications. But he generally didn't talk to them about much. Until the day he collapsed, and was taken by ambulance to the hospital. My Dad's friend went to medical repeatedly for stomach pain - they told him to take an antacid. A month later he also collapsed and nearly died (he'd developed the human equivalent of bloat, and now has no stomach as the A&E had to remove his stomach in an emergency surgery).

For anxiety, if your Dad had been on Benzos before entering the system, most prisons do not carry Benzos in their formulary (the list of drugs they're allowed to keep on premises). The "glass room" they mentioned is a suicide watch cell. The cells are made entirely of 'bullet proof' glass and the inmate is stripped to their underwear or put in a 'safe suit' that's like a coverall sort of and padded to keep the inmate from being injured from throwing themselves against walls. Generally, there is a guard watching the inmate 24-hours/day. So imagine being stared at 24 hours a day like a goldfish in a bowl. No privacy, can't pee without someone moving to watch you to make sure you're not doing anything that could kill you. It's one of the reasons why people generally don't tell the staff that they're suicidal.

As for forcing him to have injections - it is not unethical, believe it or not. The prison is required to protect the inmates. If the doctors say that an inmate is required to have a certain medication, and the inmate refuses to voluntarily take the medication, the doctors can force the medication on them. My dad had to take medication daily. After he was told to swallow it, they did a "cheek check" to make certain he'd swallowed it. If he hadn't swallowed it, they would have forced him to take the medication. Because if he hadn't taken the blood thinners, he could have died from blood clots. And the prison would have been held responsible. This is why it's not unethical - if a person needs medication to stay alive, the prison MUST ensure that the inmate receives the medication... by whatever means they need to use.

And at least in the US, yes, they do lose all their rights when they enter prison. Oh, a few rights are left to them, but they do not have the right to refuse medical care, and they do not have the right to vote (Oregon allows inmates to vote in state and local elections, but they are not allowed to vote in national elections). Many of their rights are stripped from them, including the right to privacy. And in the US, they don't always get all of their rights back upon release. Yes, it's ugly. It's also reality.

Quote:
I just hope he makes it out of there alive.. I'm quite annoyed with the jail itself. My dad was admitted into hospital after his court hearing because he full on collapsed and they didn't even tell us.. How stupid is that? I'm not happy with the system that this government has at all.
I hope he makes it out alive too. I sincerely do. Having someone you love die in prison, even if it's because of cancer or something utterly unrelated to prison, is a level of hell I hope to never encounter again.

All of us are annoyed at the prisons. They're horrible systems that warehouse humans. There is very little humanity or basic decency involved in the system.

I don't know enough about how patient privacy works in Australia - do you have patient privacy laws that forbid information from being given to third parties? If so, is there a form your Dad can sign naming you as a person who it's okay to give information to? In the US, these are called HIPAA release forms. If there is an equivalent, get your Dad to sign one with your name on it. That will allow you to call and get information, and, in theory, require them to notify you if something drastic happens. That said, Oregon had 72 hours to notify me if something major happened to him - and 6 days later, he finally managed to get in touch with me. Don't count on them notifying you. This is why you read posts here with people panicking about not having heard from their loved one.

Your Dad may want to try a short course of SSRI antidepressants while he gets used to the system. It's not uncommon for people who have never been to prison to need/take a short course of them until they get used to the new culture. It's really like entering a foreign country where you don't speak the language. There's culture shock, not understanding the language, not being able to communicate, etc.

Quote:
Just because they go to jail doesn't mean that no one cares about them.
Spot on. And this is why you'll see people saying "The family serves the sentence too." You'll be serving your Dad's sentence from outside the fence. It is not fair. It is not fun. It is not right. But it is the way things work.

I hope you understand that I am not trying to be callous or mean with all the information I'm giving you. I hope to brace you for the impact of what will come. Prison is not nice - for either the inmate or the family. It's frustrating at best and crazy-making at worst. It's an emotional hell that drives people crazy.

And all of that is why we're here. You're an intelligent person who is doing everything in your power to do well by your Dad. And you came to the right place for support.

Keep breathing. Inhale. Exhale. Things will settle. You're doing right well for yourself at this stage of the game, believe it or not. I know you don't feel like you're doing well, but you are actually handling this very well compared to many others.

We're here for you.
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Old 12-24-2017, 10:59 AM
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Just to add....since it IS Christmas time, (actually almost Christmas here in CA)
The mail room may be short staffed and have a higher volume of mail to distribute/sort thru etc.

Ive found post cards usually get thru faster as they dont have to open them, and there is usually only a short message on them. The other trick I learned is, if its a larger envelope those are not as common as a regular size letter and seem to go a bit faster as well. But check the rules/regs....just in case they dont allow certain things.
I hope your Christmas is good, despite the circumstances.
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