Welcome to the Prison Talk Online Community! Take a Minute and Sign Up Today!






Go Back   Prison Talk > FOR "OFFENDERS" > Headed to Prison
Register Entertainment FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Headed to Prison Dedicated to those who are facing incarceration. What to expect; what you can do to prepare; Q&A's; support.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:00 PM
Minor activist Minor activist is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WA USA
Posts: 1,632
Thanks: 1,034
Thanked 1,455 Times in 798 Posts
Default

Yep. Here's two examples. By coincidence they're from Texas. That's just coincidence. The Grits for Breakfast blog is a great source and it's all about TX events so I hear more about your state than others.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.co...nsult-for.html

How many cases like that have there been where the victim didn't get lucky enough to have proof of innocence come along later?

So of course they took plea deals. They had no chance of being acquitted when peace officers were willing to lie and prosecutors were willing to conceal evidence.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Minor activist For This Useful Post:
fbopnomore (07-03-2017)
Sponsored Links
  #102  
Old 08-07-2017, 02:16 PM
sr3131 sr3131 is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Alaska
Posts: 54
Thanks: 6
Thanked 72 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbopnomore View Post
These 2015 results are from one small Pennsylvania County: "The Montgomery County DA's office is getting things done: they convicted 9,387 cases in 2015, good for 98.1 of the total, they announced in a news release. Officials noted that of the 9,387 criminal cases, 205 cases (2%) went to trial and verdict. Among those, 15 were homicide convictions".

Guilty verdicts at trial are often for multiple counts piled-on/charged for the same crime, and they usually bring much harsher prison sentences.

One county, 10,000 convictions in one year, so the only way to reduce "mass incarceration" is to change the way prosecutors operate.
http://patch.com/pennsylvania/norris...cle-topstories
I can tell you that I am innocent of the crimes for which I was convicted and did time. I took a plea deal, and, I am glad that I did!

I saw one guy who swears that he is innocent and didn't take the deal and did 15 years on a 20 year bid. I saw another guy who was sentenced as a felon, did 6 months before he was pulled out for his appeal, won his appeal and was no longer a felon but was convicted of a misdemeanor and then put on diesel treatment in retaliation. He won, but didn't win.

Another friend of mine had his sentence lengthened by a year because he corrected the federal court on his sentencing guidelines. There was a charge on his federal docket that demonstrably and legally did not belong to him. He had it cleared and they lengthened his sentence by one year!

In my experience, there is no justice in the federal "justice" system. You do not win, ever. Even though I took the deal and am now out on probation, the IRS is all over me. I have never entered my taxes using itemized deductions, only standard, as found in the IRS rules and still, they have revisited the last 7 years of my taxes and found it wanting.

I was naive when I took the deal. I plead out to one count at $5,000 and what the prosecution could demonstrate, thinking that we would sit down with my attorney and the judge and go tit for tat, looking at the documentation to demonstrate my innocence. I had the FBI agent on my case tell the DoJ not to prosecute me, that I didn't have the money. But, I was an easy target, as I truly did not have the money, nor, did I have any other money to afford a good lawyer.

In the end, I took the deal at $5,000 out of being naive and hopeful that the justice system worked and to avoid a 20 year sentence given out as punishment for the audacity to want to prove my innocence (which I've personally seen given out to somebody who fought the system). I ended up with over $100,000 due to a backdoor deal between my attorney and the prosecutor, only learning about on sentencing day, which I thought was only a meeting to setup an appointment to go over the books to demonstrate either my innocence or guilt based upon empirical evidence. Boy, was I wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 09-05-2017, 09:22 AM
Minor activist Minor activist is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WA USA
Posts: 1,632
Thanks: 1,034
Thanked 1,455 Times in 798 Posts
Default

>much harsher prison sentences

Right there's a key part of the problem. Sentences are way too harsh. Imagine (if you're not one) that you're a 25-year-old woman with some kind of drug charge. If the maximum sentence is five years, you can maybe risk a trial and take your lumps if convicted. If the sentence for going to trial is twenty years then you will never have children. Sentences like that should be saved for special occasions and for people too dangerous to release.
__________________
I'm collecting Best of PTO posts and quotes in my blog here.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Minor activist For This Useful Post:
dtmom2013 (09-05-2017), Itshardtowait (01-28-2018)
  #104  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:54 AM
Minor activist Minor activist is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WA USA
Posts: 1,632
Thanks: 1,034
Thanked 1,455 Times in 798 Posts
Default

I really like the Grits for Breakfast blog, and Scott just had a thought-provoking post with some references to court cases and an imaginary dialog between a defendant and a judge.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.co...a-bargain.html

This is imaginary, not a transcript:
Quote:
Suppose Mr. Tuley had been given a dose of truth serum. Now, in response to the magic question, he responds:
Your Honor, I do not believe that I am guilty. In fact, I know that I am not guilty.   However, the present jury is deadlocked. Some of those jurors may believe that I am not guilty, but others obviously differ. A different jury could conceivably find me guilty and sentence me to life in prison. That is a very serious risk to me. Furthermore, I do not have enough money to pay my lawyer for conducting a second trial. I am worried that I might have to go to jail just to be entitled to an appointed lawyer for a second trial. I have a job. I would lose my job if I had to go to jail for months waiting for a second trial. Quite frankly, I am out of money and out of time. I just want to go home. The State has made a very attractive offer of ten years deferred adjudication. This is an offer I cannot refuse, given the obvious risks I face if I continue to maintain my innocence and insist upon a second trial. So, even though I am innocent of this charge, I want to plead guilty because I am making a fully informed, free, voluntary and rational choice among the alternative courses of action available to me.
The trial judge, hearing this unusual response, is likely to say something along the lines of:
How can you expect me to accept your plea of guilty? This is a very serious offense and it carries a potential life sentence if you should violate the terms of your community service. How can you expect me to accept a guilty plea to the first degree offense of aggravated sexual assault of a child if you say you are not guilty, but you want to plead guilty anyway? And besides, I heard the same evidence that the jury heard and I am not fully persuaded that the evidence is sufficient to support a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. I refuse to accept your guilty plea and we will set this case for another trial.
Mr. Tuley, then, is likely to say:
Judge, whose side are you on?   Are you on my side? I just want to plead guilty.   I didn't do it. I know that, but I also know that the prosecution has a child complainant who says that I did. I have a drug problem and a jury is likely to hold that against me, and, frankly, I look dishonest. Nobody is going to believe me. Now, do me a favor and let me plead guilty and get my ten years deferred. This is a good deal. I want to take it. Don't stand in my way.
But an honorable trial judge might reasonably respond:
But, if you're not guilty, I cannot take your guilty plea. I am worried about this man pleading guilty to something he is not guilty of. That is just wrong, and I can't allow that kind of an injustice to take place in my court.
Mr. Tuley's honest reaction might well be:  “Don't be my friend. With friends like you, who needs enemies?” Instead, Mr. Tuley's lawyer would probably yank him off to the corner and after a certain whispering back and forth, Mr. Tuley will see the light He will now respond appropriately to the magic question:  “Are you pleading guilty because you are guilty and for no other reason?” with the right answer:  “Yes, ma‘am.”
__________________
I'm collecting Best of PTO posts and quotes in my blog here.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Minor activist For This Useful Post:
dtmom2013 (01-29-2018)
  #105  
Old 01-07-2018, 10:03 PM
BLTx2 BLTx2 is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexLyn View Post
At least I know I can be done with this thread...no rational person would infer that virtually all of the jury trials resulted in an acquittal.

There are cases all over the country that are dismissed daily between Indictment and a Trial Date.

In many jurisdictions, the DA is not going to seek an indictment where they do not believe they have the sufficient evidence necessary to convict. They are not saying ~98% of arrests resulted in conviction...not all arrests result in a felony indictment. I would have thought you recognized this reality...

Are their SOME who may choose to plead rather than roll the dice? Sure. But it is not a huge percentage of those cases that result in an indictment. And since not all convictions result in pen time, it is also not something endemic of what you consider to be a 'mass incarceration' problem.

It isn't that difficult to avoid being a 'justice involved' individual (now that the government is wasting more money to create yet another euphemism...
Sure, if your defense attorney talks with you and you explain and have proof of your innocence, one would imagine that your defense attorney would jump on a not guilty plea and ride It out. We found that the defense attorneys, when presented with a plea agreement, INSIST that you take the plea deal, REGARDLESS of your innocence. Their "justification"? The very numbers quoted on the original post - the "success" rate for conviction when the case goes to trial. Their spiel? "YOU BETTER TAKE THIS BECAUSE IF YOU DONT, THEY CAN MAKE TWO CHARGES INTO FIFTEEN AND THEY WILL GO AFTER YOU! YOU CANT WIN AGAINST THEM!!! "
My spouse challenged the attorney and said "Why, if I have this defense that is pretty convincing of my innocence,"
Our attorney cut him off and said "TAKE THE G.D. DEAL! YOU ARE CRAZY IF YOU DONT!"
My husband was convinced after talking with our attorney (and not even being able to completely discuss the IDEA of pleading not guilty) that the offer would be rescinded almost immediately (they aren't) and that there was no reason to even fight It ( there was). He basically had to lie that he "knowingly and willingly" did something in order to protect himself--according to our attorney.
He also had proof that this financial "crime" dollar amount was EXTREMELY inflated. We were told that because we pled, we couldn't question the amount (uh yeah you can).
So yes, innocent people are goaded into taking plea deals by attorneys ALL THE TIME! What is in It for the defense attorney? We aren't sure. Good favor from the US Attorney and judge for big important cases is what we suspect.
You shouldn't speak of what you don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 01-07-2018, 10:07 PM
BLTx2 BLTx2 is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trustingGOD001 View Post
Well I was offered 9yrs at half time or go to trial and risk 25-L. I chose the 9. Not worth the dice roll. On top of that I had to say in court I wasn't coerced into taking a plea deal. I think 25-L is a heck of a coercion.

I met somebody in prison that was offered 3, 6 or 9 she wasn't sure which year they would eventually offer her. She refused to say she did something she didn't do and ended up with 50-Life. She should have taken the deal guilty or not guilty. It is not worth your entire life. I thank the Lord every day for 4.5 years.
Husband in same exact boat! Fear and intimidation and threat of piling on multiple counts and charges (that may not even stick). Defense attorneys side with the US Attorneys in these plea "offers". Ours practically SCREAMED at us to TAKE THE DEAL> HURRY OR THEY WILL COME AFTER YOU WITH BIGGER CHARGES!!! DONT THINK! JUST TAKE It BEFORE THEY TAKE It AWAY!!!!!!! NO WE CANT NEGOTIATE THE DEAL!! WE MIGHT MAKE THEM ANGRY AND THEY WIN 97% OF THEIR CASES! YOU HAVE NO CHANCE!!
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 01-08-2018, 04:32 AM
fbopnomore fbopnomore is online now
Site Moderator

PTO Site Moderator Staff Superstar Winner 

Donation Award 
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 27,440
Thanks: 42,384
Thanked 20,509 Times in 11,930 Posts
Default

Your confidence in the fairness of the federal courts may be/is misplaced. When the prosecuting AUSA threatens you with a massive punishment if you go to trial, the reality is often that it turns out to be a promise instead of a threat. They know how your judge behaves, and the government's success rate in criminal trials is over 90%. The "trial penalty sentence" is real.

If you don't agree with your lawyer, get a different one or just disregard their advice and inform the judge that you are going to trial.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 01-08-2018, 05:48 AM
someguyfrommars's Avatar
someguyfrommars someguyfrommars is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 101
Thanks: 1
Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLTx2 View Post
Husband in same exact boat! Fear and intimidation and threat of piling on multiple counts and charges (that may not even stick). Defense attorneys side with the US Attorneys in these plea "offers". Ours practically SCREAMED at us to TAKE THE DEAL> HURRY OR THEY WILL COME AFTER YOU WITH BIGGER CHARGES!!! DONT THINK! JUST TAKE It BEFORE THEY TAKE It AWAY!!!!!!! NO WE CANT NEGOTIATE THE DEAL!! WE MIGHT MAKE THEM ANGRY AND THEY WIN 97% OF THEIR CASES! YOU HAVE NO CHANCE!!
What the DA is telling is FACTS if you go to trial and IF you loose by law you do get the maximum punishment. Many defense attorneys advice clients to plea to save the expense of a trial. The only time you may go to trial and win is if the DA is AGREEING with a negotiated deal on YOUR terms meaning their isn't much evidence,but if the DA isn't agreeing to negotiated some deal to favor you they believe they have a case.

Last edited by patchouli; 01-08-2018 at 03:00 PM.. Reason: changed user name in the quote
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 01-08-2018, 05:58 AM
BLTx2 BLTx2 is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbopnomore View Post
Your confidence in the fairness of the federal courts may be/is misplaced. When the prosecuting AUSA threatens you with a massive punishment if you go to trial, the reality is often that it turns out to be a promise instead of a threat. They know how your judge behaves, and the government's success rate in criminal trials is over 90%. The "trial penalty sentence" is real.

If you don't agree with your lawyer, get a different one or just disregard their advice and inform the judge that you are going to trial.
Well, YEAH! Of COURSE I would do that in HINDSIGHT. Having not ever even gone to traffic court, and never having any idea any of this would ever happen, It is incredibly easy to say what you say about getting another attorney and insisting, etc. When you are offered the plea deal, you have no idea who your judge is so the idea of your attorney knowing how the judge behaves is nonsensical.
Also against your advice to simply "get a different lawyer" you DO realize that you pay massive amounts for retainers and if you change attorneys, you can easily go broke in the process. This is not even to mention that your attorney tells you that you have to make this plea decision IMMEDIATELY!! Don't think about It or they will take It away. Besides, not having any experience, we were sheep, believing every word that came out of our attorney's mouth. His advice must be right. He knows SO much more than we do.

I would suggest that the governments "success rate" is due to their ability to threaten with charge upon charge upon charge, as well as your attorney's willingness to sit you on the altar for immediate sacrifice. We signed the plea deal admitting things that were simply not true, being promised a light sentence for being the ones to get the "first deal". We received the trial penalty sentence anyway.
Oh I have no confidence in the Federal Courts. I just know that if one side can threaten with ridiculous trumped up charges, they are able to intimidate and scare the other side. The innocent assume they have truth on their side so they cooperate up front, knowing that they are not in the wrong so It HAS to help to be helpful to the government, right? (Tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Ah the innocence of that time when we believed the federal courts stood for actual justice and, if you had truth on your side, you had nothing to fear.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 01-08-2018, 06:01 AM
BLTx2 BLTx2 is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by someguyfrommars View Post
What the DA is telling is FACTS if you go to trial and IF you loose by law you do get the maximum punishment. Many defense attorneys advice clients to plea to save the expense of a trial. The only time you may go to trial and win is if the DA is AGREEING with a negotiated deal on YOUR terms meaning their isn't much evidence,but if the DA isn't agreeing to negotiated some deal to favor you they believe they have a case.
Our case was Federal so there was no DA. Had our attorney made any effort to negotiate with the offered deal, we would certainly feel as if he actually tried to help us. We didnt know until after the fact that we could have gone back and asked that the deal be amended. We were instructed to take It THAT DAY.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 01-08-2018, 08:53 AM
someguyfrommars's Avatar
someguyfrommars someguyfrommars is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 101
Thanks: 1
Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLTx2 View Post

I would suggest that the governments "success rate" is due to their ability to threaten with charge upon charge upon charge, as well as your attorney's willingness to sit you on the altar for immediate sacrifice. We signed the plea deal admitting things that were simply not true, being promised a light sentence for being the ones to get the "first deal". We received the trial penalty sentence anyway.
Oh I have no confidence in the Federal Courts. I just know that if one side can threaten with ridiculous trumped up charges, they are able to intimidate and scare the other side. The innocent assume they have truth on their side so they cooperate up front, knowing that they are not in the wrong so It HAS to help to be helpful to the government, right? (Tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Ah the innocence of that time when we believed the federal courts stood for actual justice and, if you had truth on your side, you had nothing to fear.
Very true it is a shame the prosecutors aren't looking for justice but a "conviction " and I also question the jurys when a defendant goes to trial from what i heard and seen in the juries they assume the person is already guilty and police are doing their job just "fine".

Last edited by patchouli; 01-08-2018 at 03:00 PM.. Reason: Changed user name in quote
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:40 AM
fbopnomore fbopnomore is online now
Site Moderator

PTO Site Moderator Staff Superstar Winner 

Donation Award 
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 27,440
Thanks: 42,384
Thanked 20,509 Times in 11,930 Posts
Default

I speak from extensive personal experience, and post here so that some others who are caught in the prosecution meat grinder are informed of what I learned in hindsight, but also "the hard way". Saying that my advice is nonsensical is offensive. Neither you nor I are the only people to be prosecuted by the unlimited resources of the State or federal criminal justice systems. Many PTO members have had differing experiences, so there is value in understanding what happened to them, even you.

What you didn't mention is how impossible it is to hire the right lawyer, regardless of the cost, in handcuffs at the point of the swatter's machine guns.

The entire federal system is rigged against every criminal defendant, but everyone who is targeted is able to make their own choices, no matter how stupid they may turn out to be.
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fbopnomore For This Useful Post:
GaReform (02-06-2018), Sarianna (02-04-2018)
  #113  
Old 01-27-2018, 10:16 PM
Minor activist Minor activist is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WA USA
Posts: 1,632
Thanks: 1,034
Thanked 1,455 Times in 798 Posts
Default

Speaking of the defendant being at a disadvantage, there are some interesting facts in an article by a defense attorney.

Quote:
A 2016 paper analyzing more than 420,000 cases determined that those who gained pretrial release were 15.6 percentage points less likely to be found guilty. Not surprisingly, prosecutors commonly condition plea offers on postponing hearings where defendants may challenge their arrests and request release.
I'm angry. Keeping someone in a cage better have a compelling safety reason behind it. Keeping someone in a cage to squeeze out a plea deal I cannot excuse.

Here's another very interesting angle that I had not read about before. I knew about the problem with discovery but hadn't realized it preferentially hurts the cases of the innocent.

Quote:
In federal and in many local courts, the prosecution is not obligated to reveal its witnesses before trial. You and your investigator do your best to assess whether the case rests on unreliable eyewitnesses, faulty assumptions or witnesses with reasons to fabricate an account, which you cannot fully explore because — remember — the prosecution has not even disclosed who they are.

Why not ask your client for leads? That might work if the person were guilty. Innocent clients are generally the least helpful, because they often cannot tell you what they don’t know.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.854a90012c61
__________________
I'm collecting Best of PTO posts and quotes in my blog here.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Minor activist For This Useful Post:
dtmom2013 (01-29-2018), fbopnomore (01-28-2018)
  #114  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:53 PM
Kazarian Kazarian is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Georgia,USA
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Well I have been put in this situation, I was arrested for aggravated child molestation/Incest. When the da took the case to grand jury, he added Aggravated sexual battery, child molestation to the charges. One of my nieces claimed I performed oral sex on her, and placed my fingers in her vagina. There is no evidence that this happened, there was no medical report done, there are multiple inconsistencies in her story, my PS informed me that the forensic interview was not done properly and I can prove that I was on the phone talking with her mother when the alleged incident occurred. My lawyer told me that if I took it to trial I could be convicted anyway just on her testimony. Now they have not offered me a plea, but looking at 25 years without the possibility of parole......I really can't fathom that, and having to admit I am guilty to something that I didn't do weighs on me too, but what alternative do I have?
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 02-05-2018, 04:09 AM
someguyfrommars's Avatar
someguyfrommars someguyfrommars is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 101
Thanks: 1
Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazarian View Post
Well I have been put in this situation, I was arrested for aggravated child molestation/Incest. When the da took the case to grand jury, he added Aggravated sexual battery, child molestation to the charges. One of my nieces claimed I performed oral sex on her, and placed my fingers in her vagina. There is no evidence that this happened, there was no medical report done, there are multiple inconsistencies in her story, my PS informed me that the forensic interview was not done properly and I can prove that I was on the phone talking with her mother when the alleged incident occurred. My lawyer told me that if I took it to trial I could be convicted anyway just on her testimony. Now they have not offered me a plea, but looking at 25 years without the possibility of parole......I really can't fathom that, and having to admit I am guilty to something that I didn't do weighs on me too, but what alternative do I have?
This is one of those messed up situations because yes her testimony is enough to get you convicted even she is lying,mind asking you how old she?what was your relationship with your niece?why did she lie? who was with you at the time?also was it just you and her?were they other people? is this the first time she lied on you? who called the police? how was the police investigation?did you get arrested? are you in custody?

So for the questions but this the best way to at least look into your case.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 02-05-2018, 09:06 AM
tdj tdj is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Oklahoma U.S
Posts: 147
Thanks: 15
Thanked 89 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLTx2 View Post
Sure, if your defense attorney talks with you and you explain and have proof of your innocence, one would imagine that your defense attorney would jump on a not guilty plea and ride It out. We found that the defense attorneys, when presented with a plea agreement, INSIST that you take the plea deal, REGARDLESS of your innocence. Their "justification"? The very numbers quoted on the original post - the "success" rate for conviction when the case goes to trial. Their spiel? "YOU BETTER TAKE THIS BECAUSE IF YOU DONT, THEY CAN MAKE TWO CHARGES INTO FIFTEEN AND THEY WILL GO AFTER YOU! YOU CANT WIN AGAINST THEM!!! "
My spouse challenged the attorney and said "Why, if I have this defense that is pretty convincing of my innocence,"
Our attorney cut him off and said "TAKE THE G.D. DEAL! YOU ARE CRAZY IF YOU DONT!"
My husband was convinced after talking with our attorney (and not even being able to completely discuss the IDEA of pleading not guilty) that the offer would be rescinded almost immediately (they aren't) and that there was no reason to even fight It ( there was). He basically had to lie that he "knowingly and willingly" did something in order to protect himself--according to our attorney.
He also had proof that this financial "crime" dollar amount was EXTREMELY inflated. We were told that because we pled, we couldn't question the amount (uh yeah you can).
So yes, innocent people are goaded into taking plea deals by attorneys ALL THE TIME! What is in It for the defense attorney? We aren't sure. Good favor from the US Attorney and judge for big important cases is what we suspect.
You shouldn't speak of what you don't know.
You're absolutely correct. I realize this is a late post, and you may have already answered this question, but, was the lawyer of his court appointed?
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 02-05-2018, 10:09 AM
tdj tdj is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Oklahoma U.S
Posts: 147
Thanks: 15
Thanked 89 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdub View Post
Being a slave and being an inmate are fr different things.

One may plead for strategic reasons. Or one may plead because one is guilty and wishes to take responsibility for their actions.

One who please guilty for strategic reasons has to live with that.

You are SO clueless. What country are you from?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tdj For This Useful Post:
GaReform (02-06-2018)
  #118  
Old 02-05-2018, 10:24 AM
tdj tdj is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Oklahoma U.S
Posts: 147
Thanks: 15
Thanked 89 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdub View Post
Speedy trials are always available. Defendant only has to seek it. Defendants usually want delays because delays usually work in favor of defendant.

Often the pricey attorney does his or her best work by negotiating a good plea.

The point of the whole thread is people who did not commit the crime but accept a plea then argue their innocence.

A plea is a voluntary thing. If one is innocent and decides to take a plea, they have only themselves to blame for that choice.
The reason most defendants don't seek a speedy trial is because when they go into court and their attorney says "Your honor, we waive time", the poor sap of a defendant doesn't know what in the hell that means. Once court is over, when they ask, and IF they even remember to ask then it's too late.

That's the fault of our school system.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 02-06-2018, 02:35 AM
Kazarian Kazarian is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Georgia,USA
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by someguyfrommars View Post
This is one of those messed up situations because yes her testimony is enough to get you convicted even she is lying,mind asking you how old she?what was your relationship with your niece?why did she lie? who was with you at the time?also was it just you and her?were they other people? is this the first time she lied on you? who called the police? how was the police investigation?did you get arrested? are you in custody?

So for the questions but this the best way to at least look into your case.
I don't want to put too much information out there, she was 14, i thought my relationship with her was normal, it was me and her at my house but my roommate was also there at the time, first time in this manner she has lied on me, her mother called the police, Investigation?!?!? HAH! they called the police, 3 days later she gave the forensic interview, 5 days later I had police at my house, I was arrested, no I am not currently in custody(bonded out)
The sad thing is, is that most people I know are telling me that if I decide to go to trial as soon as the jury hears my charges that it's a rap. My lawyer has told me there isn't sufficient evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this happened. I really don't know what to do honestly.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kazarian For This Useful Post:
fbopnomore (02-06-2018)
  #120  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:30 AM
prisonlady prisonlady is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Quebec Canada
Posts: 603
Thanks: 2
Thanked 450 Times in 235 Posts
Default

By all means, go to trial. Being one of the few people who are willing to take the risk suggests that you may be innocent. If you lose, it's going to be easier psychologically even if you serve more time. If you are to serve an unjust sentence and to carry the sex offender label for the rest of your life, it's easier to cope with the notion that others have treated you unfairly than with the fact that you yourself have agreed to that and declared yourself guilty.

Personally, I would make this choice even if the sentence was much higher if I lost, knowing that at least I would not have to be homeless and starving, or even just have to start over financially and professionally. I had trouble doing it as a young person, having been forced out of a comfortable home and into a rat-infested little room with a shared bathroom and not much food. That's why I would choose to risk everything in order to win, knowing that if it doesn't work at least someone would feed and house me.

And don't imagine for a moment that the nature of the alleged offense, such as the fact that it did not involve forced intercourse (or worse), or your likely innocence, will make a difference. Most of the time, such difference are lost on others and you may never get the opportunity to explain yourself. It's often a matter of a yes or no answer. According to many decision-makers or automatic screening systems (for job and rental applications, for example), if you have been convicted or declared a sex offender, that's all there is to know. If you even get to see an actual person at all, some corporate policy may keep you out because some blanket policy even if your interviewer would have liked to give you a chance.

Please, by all means, have the courage to fight for yourself in court! It's easier than pounding the pavement later looking for a job with that kind of label.

Last edited by prisonlady; 02-06-2018 at 12:17 PM.. Reason: Adding the last paragraph
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:13 PM
djchitown djchitown is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 36
Thanks: 3
Thanked 22 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Hold on.... I wouldn't be giving someone legal advice by telling them to go to trial. NO ONE should be making that decision other than you.

Secondly do not post anything online that can be used against you in the court of law. Do not admit to anything but it is okay to state what you are being charged with. Ignorance of the law is NO defense.

If the prosecutor feels that your contact with the victim was consensual then that makes a big difference. If you can show any evidence or bring forth any witnesses that will show that the victim was sexually active or that she referred to you as a boyfriend that will help you. Also having people write letters to give to your attorney about your good character; grades in school; charitable work; ties to the community; Trump supporter should help you in GA lol Seriously, you are facing very serious life altering charges. If you should have to register as a sex offender that may prove to be more of a punishment than prison itself.
__________________
There is no simple formula here. But we must try as best we can to balance isolation and engagement; pressure and incentives, so that human rights and dignity are advanced over time. - President Barack Obama
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to djchitown For This Useful Post:
fbopnomore (02-20-2018), Minor activist (02-23-2018)
  #122  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:19 PM
djchitown djchitown is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 36
Thanks: 3
Thanked 22 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Let me add something that my attorney told me... He said that if I go to trial I could face a mandatory minimum of 10 years but if I plead guilty I would only do 3 years. He said that if I went to trial and lost I could be sentenced up to 30 years and be fined 10s of thousands of dollars, but acknowledged that I would likely only receive 10 if found guilty. But he told me that if I lost at trial when I did 3 year of the 10 year sentence, I would write him a letter like others have and state, "I wish I had listened to you and taken that 3 year deal... I would be out today."

My belief is that an innocent man should go to trial but a guilty man should work to get the best plea deal he can and show remorse. If there is no remorse then go to trial, and roll the dice.

This is just my opinion. Talk to your family once you get an offer from the State and see what they would want you to do because your family will be doing time with you.
__________________
There is no simple formula here. But we must try as best we can to balance isolation and engagement; pressure and incentives, so that human rights and dignity are advanced over time. - President Barack Obama
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 03-14-2018, 05:41 PM
Minor activist Minor activist is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WA USA
Posts: 1,632
Thanks: 1,034
Thanked 1,455 Times in 798 Posts
Default

Here's an article with suggestions for reforming the plea bargaining system.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3129469

Quote:
The central plank of the proposed reform is to shift more discretion and power from prosecutors, who invariably agitate for tougher sentences, into the hands of (impartial) sentencing judges. This can be achieved by conferring a discount to offenders who plead guilty. The size of the discount should be up to thirty percent. A similar system already operates effectively in Australia.
Strikes me as not going far enough.
__________________
I'm collecting Best of PTO posts and quotes in my blog here.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Minor activist For This Useful Post:
fbopnomore (03-14-2018)
  #124  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:38 PM
chunghwapost chunghwapost is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2013
Location: China & Taiwan
Posts: 149
Thanks: 0
Thanked 36 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Because the system is not always fair and sometimes people plead guilty rather than fight it and lose.

I fought my case to the end. I fought the law I didn't really win but I didn't lost everything either. At least I was released after 5 months detention as I could do 3 years.

Last edited by chunghwapost; 03-15-2018 at 10:44 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 03-17-2018, 07:04 AM
someguyfrommars's Avatar
someguyfrommars someguyfrommars is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 101
Thanks: 1
Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazarian View Post
Well I have been put in this situation, I was arrested for aggravated child molestation/Incest. When the da took the case to grand jury, he added Aggravated sexual battery, child molestation to the charges. One of my nieces claimed I performed oral sex on her, and placed my fingers in her vagina. There is no evidence that this happened, there was no medical report done, there are multiple inconsistencies in her story, my PS informed me that the forensic interview was not done properly and I can prove that I was on the phone talking with her mother when the alleged incident occurred. My lawyer told me that if I took it to trial I could be convicted anyway just on her testimony. Now they have not offered me a plea, but looking at 25 years without the possibility of parole......I really can't fathom that, and having to admit I am guilty to something that I didn't do weighs on me too, but what alternative do I have?
Wow crazy situation and it is true her testimony is enough to convict you plus since she is a teenagers,teenagers LIE. You should have stayed away from your niece the minute she lies about something like this AVOID them use your instinct your niece probably knew and sensed that since your an adult and she is a minor her word will stand.Use your instincts even its family avoid people like that.In the end I don't know what to tell you,best advice is use your instinct however her being a teenager MIGHT help your case as jurors do know teenagers lie,but ask your lawyer and best of luck to you.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Innocent who Plead Guilty Zelda50 Federal System News, Events and Legal Issues 34 03-04-2015 06:32 PM
Plead guilty to assault with intent to commit murder. How to reduce time? LadyT19 Prison & Criminal Legal Help! 7 04-26-2013 02:02 PM
Client commited crimes*is it best to take a plea deal rather than plead innocent? aaf2009 California Legal Help 11 09-28-2009 11:01 PM
Why did they plead guilty if they are innocent? Kathy General Prison Talk 4 09-30-2002 04:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:59 PM.
Copyright © 2001- 2017 Prison Talk Online
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website Design & Custom vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media
Message Board Statistics