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  #1  
Old 07-20-2003, 12:24 PM
Big B Big B is offline
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Default Quit the whining

I read alot on here and it seems that most of the people here have angels in prison that were locked up for doing nothing at all.


Fedex was sent to federal prison for 27 months after pawning his deer rifle.

Since when is pawing a deer rifle a federal offense. That statement leads peoiple to believe you were railroaded.

Are there any guilty people in prison?
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Old 07-20-2003, 12:26 PM
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Sure there are guity people in prison, some of them locked in cells and some of them not, but there are guilty people there, alright. Nobody is saying there aren't. But our system is sick and it's natural for loved ones to want to believe in their prisoner if at all possible. I don't see that it's the right of anyone else to take that away from them, if that's what they cling to. Some of the ones who scare me the most are out here, playing like they've never done anything wrong.
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2003, 12:49 PM
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Hey Big B

Why don't you start READING before you start posting. Fed-X NEVER stated he wasn't guilty on anything. So where in the hell do you get that?

Fed-x started this community because there was a lack of SUPPORT for the loved ones on the outside who were having trouble with the system. If you read his intro again, you will find that it was his own mother who was denied a visit because there were malfunctions with testing procedures at the prison.

So why don't you quit your own 'whining' here or else at least know what your talking about BEFORE you post.

Any questions?... Contact Me!

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Old 07-20-2003, 01:05 PM
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My friend Jeff who is a ward of the AZ DOC, housed at a private facility in Newton Co., TX would be the first to tell you that he is guilty of the crime he committed. He will also tell you that his prison is full of people just like the ones on the outside; the only difference being that they are all men, and all men who got caught.

In this day and age, many innocents are being released from prison with the advent of D.N.A. testing. Not all prisoners are cut from the same cloth.

I think toi ama says it best; "it's natural for loved ones to want to believe in their prisoner if at all possible. I don't see that it's the right of anyone else to take that away from them, if that's what they cling to. "

Aloha,

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Old 07-20-2003, 01:24 PM
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I read a few of your posts,.. one caught my eye..

It was commentary on meals in prison because you've had about 100 in 5 years.

Point and a half for actually staying long enough after the revival to break bread with the staff.

But it pales in comparison to the 100 meals that a prisoner gets handed in the first 5 weeks of being locked up there.

I don't see the point of antagonizing people here with absolutes or your take on absolutes about their positions or circumstances. You may well have picked the wrong person's circumstances to question and make observations about.

I suppose the business you are in depends on sinners to redeem and gathering crowds to hear you witness. It also is dependent on you convincing them that they have the fault you find in them.

You might have gathered that your flocks inside are mixed with some folks who are just looking to get out of their cell on a Tuesday. They have chosen you over an 8x10.

Folks here have a few more choices.

First rule of good theatre,... know your audience.
First rule of evangelism... don't preach at the choir.
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2003, 01:48 PM
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Big B - Showing some real compassion, aren't you? Ever heard of a private message? It's a nifty little thing. If you have an issue with Fed-X, perhaps you could send him a private message.

Otherwise, why are you posting on the board HE created.
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Old 07-20-2003, 01:57 PM
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I'm guilty. Guilty of inciting a conversation/post war.

Pam reread my post. I did not say Fed EX was guilty. or not guilty. This is from his Biography "Introduced to the Criminal Justice System after a Joyriding Charge in 1992 -given probation. Sent to federal prison for 27 months after pawning my deer rifle. Became involved extensively in prisoner support while there and am now implementing our p "


Now when I read that it says he was sent to prison for pawning his deer rifle. Which is not a felony. Unless you're a convicted felon and you are not suppose to have guns.


The PTO is a great place. However, most people on here have an Innocence, poor inmate, mentatlity. IMHO.

That was my point. Don't like prison? Don't commit crimes then you probably won't have to go.


I'm compassiontae about the inmates souls. I'm not sorry he is there. You do the crime you do the time.
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Old 07-20-2003, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big B
I'm guilty. Guilty of inciting a conversation/post war.
Because you were bored?

Quote:
Now when I read that it says he was sent to prison for pawning his deer rifle. Which is not a felony. Unless you're a convicted felon and you are not suppose to have guns.
So it was the way he worded it that bothers you? Would it have been better to say, "I - a convicted felon - pawend a deer rifle and because I am a convicted felon I went to prison. It was a felony. "

What's the deal with you?

Quote:
The PTO is a great place. However, most people on here have an Innocence, poor inmate, mentatlity. IMHO.
I've never said my husband was innocent. I've never said he didn't deserve to be in prison. Does that change the fact I want him home? Hell no.

Quote:
That was my point. Don't like prison? Don't commit crimes then you probably won't have to go.
This is my point - Don't like PTO? Don't come here. You've been a member for over a year and have posted about 30 times. You've NEVER offered support to a member of PTO. You've never tried to aid/assist/help other members in the low points of their lives. Now you come on here with this crap?


Quote:
I'm compassiontae about the inmates souls. I'm not sorry he is there. You do the crime you do the time.
Oh - you're so freaking original. My God, I've only heard that about 14,000 times in the past year and 1/2. When you have something to offer, feel free to reply.
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  #9  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:22 PM
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Big B Well happy Sunday to you too.
I am going to try and hold my tongue on this one. Since having the word Moderator under my name says I must show a certain amount of respect for our members. Not matter how hard it is at times.

I work with 1500+ inmates and only 3 of those are innocent or have ever claimed to be. Many of the people here do not claim to have a loved one in prison and have a claim of innocence. What most have a claim to is the cruel and unusual punishment instilled on their loved ones in prison.

Although you claim you have visited prisons and even ate with them and the food wasnít that bad. Why donít you try sitting in some of the prison and eating rice were you have to take out the maggot eggs before you can eat it. I have it isnít pleasant. Why donít you try standing in sewer for weeks (raw sewage). Why donít you try having no running water for weeks and have to depend on someone to share their water that happens to have someone on the outside.
When a person is sentence by a judge him/her is given a certain tern to serve in prison. The reason for that time is to punish and also to safe guard the public. It is our responsibility to house the prisoners and make sure the basic needs are taken care of. In many many prisons that isnít happening.

You take about if you canít do the time donít do the crime. Well the explain to me about people like Nicky Yarris. He has done the time for 23 years in hell and never did the crime. THERE IS DNA TO PROVE THAT. If you care to read up on it go to the search button and put in Nicky Yarris I have posted several things about him.

You bring up Fedx and his charge; well that just shows you how stupid our system has become. They continue to whine and moan about how many more prisons they are having to build and how short they are on money. Well then quit locking up non-violent people, people who have no business in prison.

You claim to be a Christian, well my friend you and I must read a different Bible. Mine tells me to love and care for other. NOT judge them that judging is the Lords place. But yet you are set judging on the members of the group.

For someone who doesnít agree with many here or who seems to think all we do is whine, you have invested a lot of time reading all our whinning.

I wonít judge you nor condemn you for you words or your actions. All I can do is pray for you and put you and your attitude in Gods hands.

All I would ask is that you check your facts before you go off. Trust me the sole of a shoe doesn't taste so good in ones mouth.

softie
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big B
The PTO is a great place. However, most people on here have an Innocence, poor inmate, mentatlity. IMHO.

I'm compassiontae about the inmates souls. I'm not sorry he is there. You do the crime you do the time.
Hmmm.

I'm going to take a pass on commenting about your references to David's situation....I'm sure you'll hear from others, though, and rightly so.

I am one who does not subscribe to the mentality you mentioned. My man is guilty as hell (Murder One), and he will tell you that straight up. He is ashamed of what he's done, and he will tell you that as well. When he feels the need now and then, I allow him to vent about the conditions at his facility. Then I tell him as lovingly as possible..."Just think, honey, of all the great reasons never to go back once you're home!" Usually we both end up laughing over that exchange

On occasion, a more serious issue will come to light (medical neglect, missed mail, ignored Form 9's, etc.)....that's when I start making phone calls to the appropriate people. But I do not coddle my man, or minimize his crime in any manner...in fact, I have spent a considerable amount of time gnashing my teeth over the feelings of the victim's family, not that it will do anyone any good. No one can undo the past.

I have gotten an inkling of the "poor inmate" attitude from a few of the posts here...but I don't feel that opinion speaks for the majority of our membership at all. Most of us are just trying to get from day to day, holding it together in the real world, while supporting the one we love inside.

It is not so much what you said, Big B, but how you said it. Lacking the benefit of sight (eye contact, facial expressions, etc.), delivery is everything in this type of format (the written word).

Just some food for thought.

Susan in Providence
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:28 PM
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Exactly, if you are a felon you can't have guns. I read somewhere that it was the parole violation of pawning the gun that got him sent to prison. And that is ridiculous to put people in prison for that reason.
I do sometimes pick up the attitude that the poor prisoner didn't do anything, from a few people. Or they excuse his bad behavior in and outside. I'll tell you, I was shocked dealing with the prison system as "family". I was shocked to have people so unhelpful and rude. I was shocked to find out he was locked up 23 hours a day with nothing to do, when he wasn't convicted of a violent offense. I was shocked that the CO's could get away with making rude comments to the prisoners for no reason at all. I mean racist remarks, and trying to egg them on. It seems that there is very little control on what the CO's can do. And the punishment should be doing the time, not having CO's treat them in sadistic and inhumane manners. I'm white and the relatives of my foster kids are black. If you just look at that statistics for race and incarceration you know something is very wrong. People aren't born criminal or evil. As a social worker working with black kids, I didn't really notice a lot of overt racism. But with my handsome and very black 6/2 18 yo son, I was again shocked. He'd apply for jobs over and over and not get a call back. Once on the way to Chicago in some small town, we sat there at a restaurant for 10 minutes without having a waitress come to us, and finally left. The three blonde young ladies pointed to us, but then went and started clearing a table. When he lost his bike lock and had locked it to a tree, and we were both there trying to cut off the cable, the police were called. Believe me, after living with him 14 months, I can tell you people react to him totally different than this middle aged white lady. Between us, we joke about it that he gets me in trouble.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:35 PM
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Hi everyone! I actually met up with Big B and his road dog Brian yesterday at Grapevine Mills mall which is the largest mall in Texas. Big B is called Big for a reason. He's 6'7" and about 275 lbs. give or take a few pounds and the dude is not fat in the least. Big B is on a sports team that goes into prisons to play prescheduled games with inmates then to afterwards share the good news of the Gospel. I spoke with him just a few moments ago via cell phone as a matter of fact and what he is trying to point out here is the importance of accepting responsibility for one's actions. I met many men in prison that told me they were innocent but very few of those same individuals did I believe. Most are guilty yet refuse to accept responsiblity for their actions. That is the point Big B is trying to get across. In order to change, and in turn heal, acceptance is necessary regarding responsibility for the crime or crimes that were committed. Without acceptance for a wrong committed change can never take place. So this is worthwhile topic matter. Many men that are incarcerated have accepted responsibility. Sure thing! I personally know many that have accepted the errors of their past and have gone on to drastically improve their lives and that of their families. But no matter how unpopular the sentiment may be, it does not detract from the fact that many incarcerated do not acknowledge that they have done anything wrong. If they never do then they cannot change. This is the crux of the matter that Big B is trying to get across. Big B is doing something to make a difference in others lives and works with a team to help people. How many sit on the side lines and talk of helping and assisting the incarcerated but when all is said and done actually do nothing?! At least Big B gets out there into the prisons and does what he can. He did bring up a valid point, namely being that of accepting responsibility for one's actions. I do not believe he is pointing fingers but merely looking to extend the large base of discussion material on here into another valid direction. Keep the Faith!!!

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  #13  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:48 PM
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Sorry Ken, I disagree with you COMPLETELY:

Quote:
This is the crux of the matter that Big B is trying to get across. Big B is doing something to make a difference in others lives and works with a team to help people. How many sit on the side lines and talk of helping and assisting the incarcerated but when all is said and done actually do nothing?! At least Big B gets out there into the prisons and does what he can. He did bring up a valid point, namely being that of accepting responsibility for one's actions. I do not believe he is pointing fingers but merely looking to extend the large base of discussion material on here into another valid direction.
You can actually state that your friend there is NOT pointing the finger?? He pointedly stated the example of "Fed-X"...and he incorrectly makes the suggestion that David is saying that he's been railroaded.

For being a member here well over a year, Mr. Big B sure seems to be 'sitting on the sidelines'.

How can you say he brought up a valid point? Several members here have already posted that the MAJORITY of the members do not minimize the guilt of their loved ones convictions. Do you not agree with that Ken? Perhaps we may just be missing something then, if you think that's a valid point in regards to PTO.

--------
Mr. Big B again you are not reading the whole introduction from which you are quoting. You are taking a statement out of a paragraph and using it to get an incorrect statement to generalize your thoughts. Read it COMPLETELY. He mentioned that he was already on probation for a felony and what that prior conviction was for. He admitted what he had done while still on probation and what it was that sentenced him to federal prison time.

If your going to offer thoughts, again, just READ before you post.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:53 PM
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Pme Kay. I stand by my statements and I welcome Big B's subject matter for discussion. You ask how I can say that he brought up a valid point. Very simply, "He brought up a valid point". Smile. Now the subject matter is on the table for those who wish to discuss it. If you do not wish to discuss it don't.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Quit the whining

ko1 - I have a problem with what you have said here..."I do not believe he is pointing fingers but merely looking to extend the large base of discussion material on here into another valid direction."

If your friend is truly trying to do what you say then he does not have a very friendly way of approaching me or other members on the site. (See the quote below)

Quote:
Originally posted by Big B
Quit the whining

I read alot on here and it seems that most of the people here have angels in prison that were locked up for doing nothing at all.
I have never had the impression that we whine on this site and if this is his impression then that is his right but to suggest that "MOST" people fall into this category is wrong.

Perhaps I should not make first impressions (as this is my first impression with Big B) but it is not a very good one.

Just my opinion. Oh - and for the record - My Partner is guilty and knows it!
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  #16  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:59 PM
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Well I'm glad that you stand by your statements.

Perhaps you can start your own discussion with your friend about "Are there any guilty people in prison?" on your cell phone or even another thread...leaving out the example that he used in regards to Fed-X with misrepresentation?
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:05 PM
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"Quit Whinning" Sure does sound like finger pointing to me and many others. I don't really care how Big he is or that he isn't fat. What does that have to do with anything?

He is putting everyone here and into prison in one lump. by telling us all he reads is us whinning about our poor little angels that our innocent.

As I suggested he should know what he is talking about before he opens his mouth. The ones that do talk about their loved ones being innocent, very well could be.

And to treat us here like we are stupid and believe that everyone is in prison, just shows his own mentality.

He goes into prisons and tries to make a difference, for that I applaud him. But that does not give him a right to come on here and treat people who have loved ones locked up like idiots. And to also imply that we all think they are innocent.

As far a valid point he brought up no valid point, he did nothing but point fingers at the members here at PTO.

A valid point would have been how many people think it is important that an inmate take reposibilty for their crimes. Or I think that to many inmtes don't take resposibilty for their crimes and that you as loved ones need to point this out to them and help them heal. Now that would have been a valid point. NOT the way it was presented as to all of us to stop our whinning.

And as far a PmeKay not reading the discussion it is her job as Adminstration to read and discuss what goes on at PTO.

Teb I totally agree with you.

And for the record Tracy was also gulity and never said otherwise. He accepted total responsibilty for his crimes.

softie
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2003, 03:38 PM
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Big B is entitled to his opinion just as you are. That is the wonderful thing about the spoken or written word. I know of many people that are incarcerated who have never accepted responsibility. As for his comments about Fed-X notice how I did not breach that subject cause quite frankly I'll leave that between those two. The validity I see in his post is the issue of accepting responsibility factor. Good subject matter. I learned one thing from years in prison and it's to not let others push your buttons. Smile. So saying all that I'll say have a great week and God bless. The written or spoken word is powerful and when it is so provacative it gets people's emotions riled up then it must be close to pertinent subject matter worthy of discussion.

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Old 07-20-2003, 03:40 PM
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Wow, this certainly has become a heated discussion. But, I see validity to points made on both sides of the topic at hand.

It is not always easy to convey sentiments using the written word and IrishEyes made some great points on this fact in her post.

I believe Kenny came to the defense of Big B, because just maybe, Big B was misunderstood. To be honest there is some whining that goes on by a small few. But, in defense of those who whine; they are trying to deal with a difficult situation the best way they know how, and that may be to whine.

For those who are Moderators and Administrators of PTO, it must be difficult to always maintain total impartiality to issues and opinions brought up on these boards. After all you are human too, whose lives are affected by the incarceration of your loved ones and family members. However, the diversity of opinions and the collective sharing of knowledge learned and gained by others different from us is an invaluable tool. and what makes PTO such a great site!

What is important for all of us to remember is to respect each other.

"Wisdom is a universal medicine, and the only remedy for ignorance, which is the foremost sickness of mankind."

Love and Respect,

Lisa
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:49 PM
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Well Since My thoughts and opinions have been voiced by my fellow moderators and administrators I just don't have a thing to say EXCEPT:

Please go to the front office and take the time to read the PTO Rules and Policies........they are a MUST read for ALL members....... Here's the link:

http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/for...e=&forumid=188

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Old 07-20-2003, 03:50 PM
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Freya excellent post! It all boils down to Freedom Of Speech. If someone wishes to put subject matter in a thread in a respectful manner then it is fair game. As for his comments about David, obviously he doesn't know David so he asked. However he did bring up pertinent subject matter and I see merit to the discussion. You do not have to agree with someone to allow them to exercise their right of freedom of speech and opinions. Many inmates do not accept responsibility for thieir actions and thus the cycle of criminality continues once they are released. I said that! The written word does not scare me. Smile.
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Old 07-20-2003, 03:52 PM
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i usually keep a low profile around here, but what the heck...

with all due respect, ken...i don't think he asked. looks to me like he assumed. i didn't see a question mark anywhere in bigb's remarks regarding fed-ex.
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Old 07-20-2003, 04:14 PM
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Ken your own posts are so obviously lacking in response on what the members are trying to say here, you are either choosing to ignore or oblivious to what was posted. Everyone can see what Big B implied in his original post but you. But I guess you and your new friend have that in common.

Like I said, if you want to start a new topic and discussion on the subject of inmates accepting responsibility ...feel free to do so. But DO NOT imply, suggest or name a member here at PTO in your discussion as an example.

You are correct that Big B is entitled to his opinion, as well as you or I...BUT if he is incorrect and misleading with statements taken out of context, BE SURE they will be addressed and corrected!
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Old 07-20-2003, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big B
The PTO is a great place. However, most people on here have an Innocence, poor inmate, mentatlity. IMHO.
Out of the hundreds of posts I've read here, there are only about a handful of people who claim their loved one is innocent. With our flawed legal system, incompetent public defenders, and interpretive laws, I won't doubt the validity of their claims.

I can't fault people for wanting their loved ones to come home. I can't imagine the heartache, stress and loneliness that accompany loving an inmate. Most here never claim guilt nor innocence for their or a loved one's accused crime(s). PTO isn't about affixing blame or taking responsibility. PTO is about support for those who are forced to deal with being without their loved one, or for those who are going and/or have been in the prison system themselves. I see PTO as a place of non-judgmental support, educated and emotional opinions, and a wealth of information.

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That was my point. Don't like prison? Don't commit crimes then you probably won't have to go.
I agree with your point. However, I realize people are human and mistakes.

I like opinionated people and enjoy reading views about things for which I agree and do not agree. Iíve put my foot in my mouth more than once here and Iíll be the first to admit my mistakes.

Michelle
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Old 07-20-2003, 04:46 PM
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danielle danielle is offline
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Originally posted by ko1
Many inmates do not accept responsibility for thieir actions and thus the cycle of criminality continues once they are released. I said that! The written word does not scare me. Smile.
Are you speaking in general or by specific example?

What it seems to me is that it boils down to this - Big B and K01 have both spent time in prison, either as a prisoner or doing whatever Big B does. They have formulated the opinion that they are now "inmate experts." They have become, in their minds, the expert testimony of what our loved ones are "really like," not the people we perceive them to be.

Well, bar the door, cause it's time to get honest. I've spent time behind bars too - more than I care to talk about. More than I wanted, less than I deserved. I understand how the system works - been there and done it. I am not, however, an expert on inmates, prisoners, or the inmate mentality. Nor are either one of you an expert on my husband, his mentality, me, or my mentality.

So, don't talk down to me or this group. We know the prison system, just as you do. We've lived it, are living it, and have lived in it.

Thank you and God bless free speech.
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Monica Danielle
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On September 22, 2003, my better half came home after 657 days in an Alabama prison!!!

And he's now forever free - passing away from this life and into the next - on January 9, 2010.

My Sweet Wayne
January 21, 1954 - January 9, 2010

I'll always love you.
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