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  #26  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:09 PM
NYSisEvil NYSisEvil is offline
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Have you ever been without a car? I have. Many times. I live on a shoestring budget and when my car isn't running, I don't have one. My life was not destroyed. Inconvenienced, but certainly not destroyed.



I have a chronic medical condition. The isolation depression poor diet cant get to market inability to see doctors outside taxi range job opportunities... single till I am dead...



They are murdering me years before my time. I would not care at this point if they all dropped dead and went to hell. Kill me to somehow save others, I hope they get sick and die.


I think I understand the term "hardened" now. I get no mercy neither does this world. I was never like that before.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:15 PM
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Look at the reasons ex post facto is unconstitutional.
I've asked you to look into the reason they made it ex post facto and I would appreciate if you did. As a courtesy, I will do as you've asked.

The argument that ex post facto is unconstitutional has been debated many times and thus far, the overriding opinion is that it comes down to a question of whether the law is more penal or a case of civil remedial sanction.

"If the intention of the legislature was to impose punishment, that ends the inquiry. If, however, the intention was to enact a regulatory scheme that is civil and nonpunitive, we must further examine whether the statutory scheme is so punitive either in purpose or effect as to negate [the State's] intention to deem it civil. Because we ordinarily defer to the legislature's stated intent, only the clearest proof will suffice to override legislative intent and transform what has been denominated a civil remedy into a criminal penalty." source

You're correct in questioning ex post facto rulings, however, the Supreme Court has continued to uphold this framework for questioning legislation deemed ex post facto. If you'd like to see lifelong revocation challenged at that level, then more power to you.
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  #28  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:19 PM
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I have a chronic medical condition. The isolation depression poor diet cant get to market inability to see doctors outside taxi range job opportunities... single till I am dead...
Strike two.

I have lived with Chronic Lyme, Fibromyalgia, Psoriatic Arthritis and Myalgic Encephalomyelitis for over 30 years. I've been without a car. I've lived in two extreme climate environments and I'm still kicking. It's totally possible. Honestly, you're having a pity party. You made some bad decisions, maybe it's time to accept that and find solutions to this new way of living. Maybe find a therapist, they're available online now.
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  #29  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:22 PM
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"That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer"

-Benjamin Franklin

So? Now youíre innocent? I think not.

I have no problem with the new law and in fact I wish more states had much stricter DUI laws. My state especially.

Not being able to drive is only going ruin your life if you allow it to. Your life might be altered, your life might change, some things might have to be done differently, but your life is not over unless you let it be over.

Being dead means life is over. You know? Dead as in killing yourself or somebody else while driving impaired.

If this is the worst thing youíve ever had to cope with I envy you.

One mistake I can understand. Two I can try to understand - maybe even three, but after that I think the world is a safer place with person not driving at all.

Since itís been pointed out you asked a specific questions and I donít have the answer Iím done with you, but when you post something on a message board with 100s of members itís a bit naive to think one and all will agree with you.
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  #30  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:40 PM
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One mistake I can understand. Two I can try to understand - maybe even three, but after that I think the world is a safer place with person not driving at all.

So make a law to affect people who do it in the future instead of telling the population go ahead you are only risking probation and an expensive hassle.

How about a new law revoking everyone in the past who got a cell phone tickets, that would prevent accidents.


Sorry guys its no longer just a fine we are now retroactively revoking your licencer and murdering your future in 100 different ways. Sorry bout that.


Football agent guilty of killing man while texting behind wheel on M6 ... him guilty of causing death and serious injury by dangerous driving.

exting while driving now kills more teenagers than driving while intoxicated. Over 10,000 teens died in 2017 while they tried to send a text ...

Mar 19, 2018 - In chatting with a friend it was pointed out that there are 11 teenagers who die each day in the US as a result of texting while driving. Eleven ...

Driver who was allegedly texting kills 13 elderly churchgoers - AOL.com


Google results go on page after page.

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  #31  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:42 PM
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Ex post facto is the debate here.



How many people that did drive after 3 beers never would have done so if they knew the future punishment ?
One incident is not the debate here. Rather, it is the continued repetition of that conduct. MOST prudent people get the hint the first time they get cuffed and stuffed (and in some jurisdictions, lose their vehicle under forfeiture statutes).

Further, in this day and age, there is nobody who can claim a lack of awareness of the consequences of even buzzed driving (you know, the whole 'buzzed driving IS drink driving' and the 'DWI- you can't afford it' campaigns).

It is not ex post facto when the repercussion is administrative/civil in nature. A State can ALWAYS modify the law as to who is eligible to drive, just as the States had the right to tell 19 year olds that had been drinking for a year that they could no longer drink for another two years.

There are plenty of people that come out of prison with driving restrictions for the FIRST felony DWI and function just fine.
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  #32  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:45 PM
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Mar 19, 2018 - In chatting with a friend it was pointed out that there are 11 teenagers who die each day in the US as a result of texting while driving. Eleven ...
That's tragic, there's no denying it. And I'm going to bet that as texting overtakes the number of deaths on the road the laws will become more stringent. Distracted driving, as it's known, is relatively new on the law books where driving while intoxicated is as old as driving itself. DUI laws have taken a long time to get to the point we're at now. When lawmakers can show, statistically, that multiple distracted driving infractions happen frequently enough to warrant more strict laws, I'm positive that will be pursued.
  #33  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:46 PM
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Go to a meeting about MADD they seem to know who gets DUI'S before anyone does.

Debra Oberlin, a former president of a defunct chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, was arrested by the Gainesville, Fla. police - for drunk driving
  #34  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:59 PM
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One incident is not the debate here. Rather, it is the continued repetition of that conduct. MOST prudent people get the hint the first time they get cuffed and stuffed (and in some jurisdictions, lose their vehicle under forfeiture statutes).

Further, in this day and age, there is nobody who can claim a lack of awareness of the consequences of even buzzed driving (you know, the whole 'buzzed driving IS drink driving' and the 'DWI- you can't afford it' campaigns).

It is not ex post facto when the repercussion is administrative/civil in nature. A State can ALWAYS modify the law as to who is eligible to drive, just as the States had the right to tell 19 year olds that had been drinking for a year that they could no longer drink for another two years.

There are plenty of people that come out of prison with driving restrictions for the FIRST felony DWI and function just fine.



Its not "administrative/civil in nature" Its a government employee coming to my driver side window with a gun ready to kill me if I don't go along with getting kidnapped.



ex post facto


They can twist it and twist it with more twist then a 1000 miles of 3 strand rope and ex post facto is reaching back in time and inflicting and more repercussions on people.
  #35  
Old 07-15-2018, 02:05 PM
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MOST prudent people get the hint the first time they get cuffed and stuffed

No America is a police state now. Back in the day everyone was scared of "bubba" for today's youth its just part of life. Study: 1 in 3 Americans Arrested By Age 23 The first study to look at the arrest histories of American youth since the 1960s suggests a sharp increase: about one-third of people are cuffed for something more serious than a traffic violation before their early 20s. healthland.time.com/2011/12/19/study-1-in-3-american-youth-are-arrested-by-age-23/

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  #36  
Old 07-15-2018, 02:24 PM
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Plus, with the upcoming approval for use of recreational marijuana use, I can't see this changing as the public wants safe guards for their safety while driving.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:32 PM
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No America is a police state now. Back in the day everyone was scared of "bubba" for today's youth its just part of life. Study: 1 in 3 Americans Arrested By Age 23 The first study to look at the arrest histories of American youth since the 1960s suggests a sharp increase: about one-third of people are cuffed for something more serious than a traffic violation before their early 20s. healthland.time.com/2011/12/19/study-1-in-3-american-youth-are-arrested-by-age-23/
This is an extremely broad subject and does little to assist you in challenging an ex post facto law regarding a crime the majority of folks agree and recognize as a harm to society.
  #38  
Old 07-15-2018, 02:34 PM
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Debra Oberlin, a former president of a defunct chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, was arrested by the Gainesville, Fla. police - for drunk driving
I'm not sure anyone here is touting MADD as the end-all-be-all of organizations, but that's perhaps even more reason to take this seriously. Someone who put her life in the limelight as an anti-DD advocate couldn't make a wise decision when impaired.

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  #39  
Old 07-15-2018, 02:39 PM
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Also, you are ignoring the fact that through out the years and offenses people with DUIs have had multiple chances.

Treatment programs
Probation
Jail or weekend jail
Prison with programs for DUI crimes
Breathalyzer devices in their cars
Restricted use of a vehicle ...only for work and school
Loss of license for a six month or a year

It is not that the license is gone right away. Continued negligence
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:44 PM
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Messed up the whole thread allowing myself to get trolled.

I just want to know the suicide and overdose rate among the victims of this NYS DMV ex post facto regulation.

I almost know they are killing more people then they are saving. Your 30 years old and can never use a car again... You will always be different from other people... Why bother getting sober .... Way to inflict hopelessness. How many a gun in the mouth and more needles in arms ?

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  #41  
Old 07-15-2018, 02:44 PM
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Over 10,000 teens died in 2017 while they tried to send a text .

But... assuming youíre talking about the United States, fewer than 3,000 teenagers died in motor vehicle accidents TOTAL in 2017, without sorting by cause. Care to explain your hilariously bloated statistic?
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  #42  
Old 07-15-2018, 03:11 PM
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Numbers for suicides or overdoses by persons who lost their license for REPEATED incidents of drinking and driving are not going to be had. First and foremost, you likely will not get the names of persons who saw revocations of the driving privilege. Second, many of those who would otherwise have been subject to the provisions may not even live IN the State any more. Third, you cannot extract causation for the suicide or overdose as being attributable to not being able to attempt to get DWI #6.

A person who takes or attempts to take their life has MANY different issues going on.

We get it...you believe there should be no consequence for illegal activity. The masses disagree and believe there SHOULD be a consequence for the person who refuses to curtail their habits that place society at risk.

Oh, and about those teens texting and driving...they too can lose their license to drive, just like underage smokers (you know, tobacco, another otherwise over-the-counter item) can lose their ability to drive until they become an adult.

Driving is a privilege that may be suspended by the State for any number of reasons. I would be more interested in knowing how many of those impacted by the provisions that formed the basis of this thread actually have an ACTIVE license to BE suspended. After all, convictions on many drug and alcohol offenses carry a mandatory period of suspension in many jurisdictions. Too many points for felony convictions can carry a mandatory suspension. No insurance can carry a mandatory suspension (ever seen the premiums charged to the habitual drunk driver...IF they can even get it in the first place).

This thread is much ado about nothing, especially since other administrative actions ostensibly taken in the name of public safety don't appear on the radar of the OP's "ex post facto' claims (which is a criminal issue, NOT a civil issue). But carry on with the hand-wringing and pearl clutching...
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  #43  
Old 07-15-2018, 03:15 PM
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Also, you are ignoring the fact that through out the years and offenses people with DUIs have had multiple chances.

Treatment programs
Probation
Jail or weekend jail
Prison with programs for DUI crimes
Breathalyzer devices in their cars
Restricted use of a vehicle ...only for work and school
Loss of license for a six month or a year

It is not that the license is gone right away. Continued negligence





You are ignoring the fact that through out the years the legislature has had the power to enact laws for people who commit future crimes but to go back and trash murder the futures of people who committed them when the penalty was less is evil.


You don't know anything about addiction. No one asks to be taken over by that monster. It could be anything, that Vicodin from the dentist or the amphetamines they started you on in school at 6 to make you sit still but it is a total takeover. 70,000 overdoses last year.


Now lets just tell everyone if you are lucky enough to recover we make laws that go back in time and murder your future anyway.
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  #44  
Old 07-15-2018, 03:31 PM
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you cannot extract causation for the suicide or overdose as being attributable

Of course I can. These people can't get to out patient treatment or doctors or 12 step meetings, the things I went to and even then I saw people so overwhelmed at getting wrapped up in the system that never backs off finally saying "f-it" and went out and overdosed.



Don't even try and tell me telling a person who used drugs and alcohol for anxiety and depression now being told they can never use a car again for life isn't driving many of them to overdose and suicide. Don't even try.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:49 PM
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Seriously? Stop. Just stop. You've taken melodrama to new heights.

What about folks who NEVER are able to drive? Severe epileptics, quadriplegics, legally blind folks, people on medication that prohibits driving. Should they abandon all hope, become addicts and inflict injury simply because they can't legally operate a car? That's absurd. My father had to stop driving at age 27 due to a seizure disorder. He's 76 and I can reassure you he's lead a fulfilling life full of going to the grocery store, doctor's appointments and traveling in and outside of the country.

Please, focus your energy on improving your lot in life. There is absolutely no reason outside of self-inflicted limitations that you should not go on to live your life without a driver's license.
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  #46  
Old 07-15-2018, 03:54 PM
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Of course I can. These people can't get to out patient treatment or doctors or 12 step meetings, the things I went to and even then I saw people so overwhelmed at getting wrapped up in the system that never backs off finally saying "f-it" and went out and overdosed.



Don't even try and tell me telling a person who used drugs and alcohol for anxiety and depression now being told they can never use a car again for life isn't driving many of them to overdose and suicide. Don't even try.
I'm being sincere plesse call a state senators office or assembly person and ask them for help in your designates area. If you live upstate, travel can be difficult. In the 5 boros, this argument won't hold up. You have trains, buses, cabs, ferries and Uber.

Ask about not for programs and services that help get recovery addicts around. If there are no services available, explain to them the need. If you go off half cocked, you won't get any help. If you are factual and sincere, you may be able to find someone who will listen and point you in an unlocked direction.

Call not for profits that deal with addiction issues and ask them for advice.

There may be an unmet need here, but you have to find other avenues. Don't allow this law to become a crutch to not succeed and thrive in life.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:01 PM
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Seriously? Stop. Just stop. You've taken melodrama to new heights.

What about folks who NEVER are able to drive? Severe epileptics, quadriplegics, legally blind folks, people on medication that prohibits driving. Should they abandon all hope, become addicts and inflict injury simply because they can't legally operate a car? That's absurd. My father had to stop driving at age 27 due to a seizure disorder. He's 76 and I can reassure you he's lead a fulfilling life full of going to the grocery store, doctor's appointments and traveling in and outside of the country.

Please, focus your energy on improving your lot in life. There is absolutely no reason outside of self-inflicted limitations that you should not go on to live your life without a driver's license.



I am not too sick to drive. This was inflicted on me by other people . I did not hurt anyone but now I can never lead a life like other people.


The hatred I have for "The state of NY" consumes every bit of me.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:10 PM
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Ask about not for programs and services that help get recovery addicts around.

I woul;d rather be dead then hold out the "can I have a ride" panhandle for the rest of m y life, b When I am dead I hope you are happy "state of NY"
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:13 PM
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I am going to go get high, what are they going to do revoke my license or make me loose my job twice ?


FU NY
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:44 PM
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Maybe find a therapist, they're available online now.



They are useless, only a person that plead guilty went to prison came out got clean and started a new life only to have it ripped apart retroactively can understand.


I am not getting high, I do think about suicide at least once a day but going back to addiction first is a shitty way of doing it.
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