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  #1  
Old 03-23-2017, 07:27 AM
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Default Arkansas plans to execute 8 men in 10 days

Arkansas’s Reckless Plan to Execute 8 Men in 10 Days Could End in State-Sanctioned Torture Before Death

Between April 17 and 27, Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson plans on doing what should be inconceivable: executing eight prisoners in ten days.

After killing no prisoners in the last 12 years, the state is rushing to execute these eight men before the controversial execution drug it needs to carry them out expires on April 30.

Read entire story below:

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-free...tioned-torture

Whether you support the death penalty or not (I do not), this is highly unacceptable
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Old 03-23-2017, 09:33 AM
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I've been reading about this for a while. I am totally opposed to the death penalty, but this b.s. is going to completely backfire on Arkansas. I mean, beyond the stupidity of scheduling a mass of executions because your drugs are expiring, beyond the pro bono burden that places on attorneys and judges and clerks and interns and the rest of the legal system as 8 cases go mission critical all at once - there's the burden on the DOC staff.

It has been 11 YEARS since Arkansas put a person to death. 11 YEARS. Now they are going to do 8 in 10 days. Here's what they apparently don't understand - killing people takes a huge toll on the people doing the killing. In the case of Arkansas, you have the entire DOC system experiencing the extreme emotions that accompany an execution repeating that emotional path much too quickly to recover. The number of people who become psychologically disabled by execution increases when there's not enough time between executions.

Look, way back in the day, back to the dark ages, they knew this. They could have saved money by using the same rope time and time again. Instead they had group hangings. For some reason, the human mind is better able to deal with one hanging, even if multiple people, than it is to deal with serial hangings. They burned witches en masse as well. In modern times, gas chambers were built with 2 seats so that they could have 2 executions at a time and not have to serialize them. Even then, they didn't serialize executions so tightly together. It's too much for everybody involved.

It's everything. Dining has to deal with last meal requests knowing each is a last meal. A doctor has to declare a person dead after declaring a person fit for execution. An EMT has to find a vein (doctors and nurses are proscribed from doing so under threat of losing their licenses for participating in something meant to cause a person's death instead of heal) knowing that the cannula placed in the arm will deliver death. The guards who deal with the special visits and special visitors of the condemned have to deal with the raw emotions of family as they say goodbye to each other. Guards have to deal with the emotions of the inmates as they resign themselves to death, sometimes violently. Guards are the silent witnesses to all of this and they absorb it all. They deal both with strapping a man down and unstrapping a corpse.

And they all need time to process each execution. They will not have that time before psychologically, they are re-wounded by the next execution. 8 times in 10 days.

There are going to be a lot of disability claims among guards following this odyssey.

I don't bet on executions, but my guess is the number of "botched" executions will be large, and not merely because the drug they are using has already been tied to a number of botched, rather gruesome executions. It was true of the Nuremberg executions post WWII. It will be true here.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:52 PM
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One reason/excuse given by the Arkansas governor was that 8 executions won't be any more traumatic on State employees than one execution would be. It's always possible for people in positions of power to find someone to say that torture isn't really torture, or traumatic experiences will quickly be forgotten, or we will be viewed as liberators after bombing a house of worship, but the folks who do must know they are just spewing "alternate truths" aka lies.
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Old 03-28-2017, 10:09 PM
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One reason/excuse given by the Arkansas governor was that 8 executions won't be any more traumatic on State employees than one execution would be. It's always possible for people in positions of power to find someone to say that torture isn't really torture, or traumatic experiences will quickly be forgotten, or we will be viewed as liberators after bombing a house of worship, but the folks who do must know they are just spewing "alternate truths" aka lies.
aka "lies" for sure.

My little brother and I did 2 funerals in one week - a grandmother and a first cousin (prison kept the older brother from the funerals). This I know for certain - when you are not given time to process one event, one funeral, before going to the next, it compounds the time it takes to process both events. So, while it's logical and you think it's going to be unemotional when your 97 year old grandmother finally kicks, and you know you have to leave that funeral and reception, climb into a car, and drive to another state to see your cousin off to his final resting place, it takes a lot longer to process. You have to put all the emotions that are generated by the death of grandmother on hold so you can attend the death of cousin, Then, you have a sticky knot of emotions and memories to deal with.

Unless the guards lack all empathy, there's no way they will have time to process this. They get to know people, death row inmates as well as their families. They get transference of emotions from those actively dealing with saying goodbye to a perfectly healthy human being. Many are responsible for helping the condemned stay calm, or attaining some sense of calm. And then, they are active agents in the death of another. 8 others. Wow. I can't imagine.

I can't imagine what my colleagues, the attorneys representing these men are going through. They know these men. They work with them. They have access to some of the most intimate life details that a person has. They have to navigate the hope/resignation paradigm with their clients and their families. Some will blast the attorney in a storm of blame that's really just blowing off steam at the most accessible target.

Some will attend their funerals. Some guards will attend.

And the stupidity continues on because some politician can't understand how things become compounded. Saying that 8 executions packed tightly together has the same impact as 8 executions spread out is like saying that having 8 babies all at once has the same impact as having 8 kids each one born years apart. And in the case of executions, you don't have people lending a hand with the dirty diapers.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:01 PM
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The following article has names and information for the 8 scheduled executions. The title says it all :

NEW REPORT: PRISONERS ON ARKANSAS’S EXECUTION LIST DEFINED BY MENTAL ILLNESS, INTELLECTUAL DISABILITY, AND BAD LAWYERING

This report examines the cases of those condemned men, and what we found is devastating.[4] At least five of the eight cases cases involve a person who appears to suffer from a serious mental illness or intellectual impairment. One of these men was twenty at the time of the crime, suffered a serious head injury, and has a 70 IQ score. Another man suffers from paranoid schizophrenia and believes that he is on a mission from God. He sees both his deceased father and reincarnated dogs around the prison. A sixth condemned inmate endured shocking sexual and physical abuse–he was burned, beaten, stabbed, and raped, and his mother pimped him out to various adults throughout his preteen and teen years. In the two remaining cases, there is no evidence to suggest that the attorneys ever conducted even a minimally adequate mitigation investigation to determine if their clients had any illnesses or disabilities.

Read the entire article HERE

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Old 03-30-2017, 05:52 PM
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The following article has names and information for the 8 scheduled executions. The title says it all :

NEW REPORT: PRISONERS ON ARKANSAS’S EXECUTION LIST DEFINED BY MENTAL ILLNESS, INTELLECTUAL DISABILITY, AND BAD LAWYERING

This report examines the cases of those condemned men, and what we found is devastating.[4] At least five of the eight cases cases involve a person who appears to suffer from a serious mental illness or intellectual impairment. One of these men was twenty at the time of the crime, suffered a serious head injury, and has a 70 IQ score. Another man suffers from paranoid schizophrenia and believes that he is on a mission from God. He sees both his deceased father and reincarnated dogs around the prison. A sixth condemned inmate endured shocking sexual and physical abuse–he was burned, beaten, stabbed, and raped, and his mother pimped him out to various adults throughout his preteen and teen years. In the two remaining cases, there is no evidence to suggest that the attorneys ever conducted even a minimally adequate mitigation investigation to determine if their clients had any illnesses or disabilities.

Read the entire article HERE

I'm not surprised the media is finally reporting this stuff. I just hope it's in time to make a difference. Maybe the recent Moore case () will help some of them.

Yes, they murdered people, but these things are not an excuse - they are mitigation meant to remove these men from those who make decisions to murder without the impediment of low intellect, a history of horrendous abuse, and similar factors.

I remain hopeful. Somebody has to sober up and put an end to this.
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:47 AM
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But wait, there's more. See what a circuit court judge was willing to put to paper about his superiors in the state Supreme Court.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/32817Griffenorder/
or a shorter summary at
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2...ets-dismissal/

The gist of both is that the circuit court judge in, um, unsparing language said the Supreme Court had taken away the lawful remedies for the condemned men. He questioned whether they were breaking their oath of office. The words "more than shameful" were in there too.

Question for yourself and other lawyers: is it as unusual as I think it is for a judge to criticize other judges that explicitly and harshly?
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:03 PM
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But wait, there's more. See what a circuit court judge was willing to put to paper about his superiors in the state Supreme Court.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/32817Griffenorder/
or a shorter summary at
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2...ets-dismissal/

The gist of both is that the circuit court judge in, um, unsparing language said the Supreme Court had taken away the lawful remedies for the condemned men. He questioned whether they were breaking their oath of office. The words "more than shameful" were in there too.

Question for yourself and other lawyers: is it as unusual as I think it is for a judge to criticize other judges that explicitly and harshly?
Yes. This judge is pissed, and has a right to be pissed. Judges have judicial ethics, and you can read the Arkansas version here http://www.arkansas.gov/jddc/

But yeah. It is rare for a judge to criticize the conduct of an attorney. It is almost unheard of to criticize another judge, let alone using that sort of language. I expect to be hearing more about this.
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Old 03-31-2017, 09:39 PM
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This would be horrible enough, but the fact AR plans on torturing these men to death . . .

I have no words. I was a happier person when I didn't know about the pure evil that still exists in my own country in the 21st century.

Tell me, what can I do?
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Old 03-31-2017, 10:51 PM
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This would be horrible enough, but the fact AR plans on torturing these men to death . . .

I have no words. I was a happier person when I didn't know about the pure evil that still exists in my own country in the 21st century.

Tell me, what can I do?
Vote.

Protest.

Write an inmate on death row if you're capable of having a friendship with such a person (i.e. A person who will more than likely be killed by the state).

Join an anti death penalty group in your state. Join the ACLU in your state.

But, more than anything, vote. Make the death penalty a priority in your voting and charitable donations.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:05 PM
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Vote, and let your state legislators know why you voted and what you care about. If you have money you can donate it to key races outside your own district. Get people from your church to visit legislators with you.

If the question was what you can do to prevent the Arkansas Massacre, the only thing available now is the online petition. http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=699966
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:33 PM
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I guess I am the odd man out so to speak. We voted here in California to keep the death penalty and I was one of those voters. A lot of people have a harsh background or a low I.Q. And don't commit crimes especially horrendous ones that will get you the death penalty sentence. The only thing I worry about is innocent people being killed, but if the inmate admits to his crime and the evidence backs it up and he did something really horrible I'm all for it. The Sandy Hook Shooter is someone I would have given the death penalty, Andrea Yates as well. They are a danger to others.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:55 AM
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That's another subject though.

I think someone who's usually a death penalty supporter would have to jump backwards in horror at what Arkansas is about to do.
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:52 PM
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The deciding factor for me in all of this, is that we are not merely killing someone.

We psychologically torture them
by keeping them in a 60 sq ft cement box 22 - 23 hours a day. Sometimes for decades.

Then, instead of killing them quickly and painlessly, We physically torture them until they die.

The general public does not realize that this is how it happens.
They believe that execution in the United States is a quick little poke of a needle and *poof*

It happens that way if you're ever had to put your beloved pet "to sleep," so it must be the same way for humans, right?

My argument against this is not whether or not someone "deserves to die."
I don't ever want to have the power to have to decide that.

My argument against this nightmare is that, as a supposedly enlightened people,
we should be better than this.

The fact that we, by virtue of our gov't, sanction this, is beyond my comprehension.

I think that the public needs to be made aware of what really goes on in a death chamber.
Before it happens. Not just in a quick gruesome editorial after the fact.

If we, as a society, are going to sanction torture and murder, we should be fully and brutally aware of what that entails.

Personally, I don't think that I have the right to torture and kill someone. Period.
This is not who I want to be.
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:05 PM
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My argument against this is not whether or not someone "deserves to die."
I don't ever want to have the power to have to decide that.
There needs to be a "best of PTO" collection somewhere. Fiat_nox's quote needs to be in it next to "There is no justice in any tragedy".
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Old 04-01-2017, 03:10 PM
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I guess I am the odd man out so to speak. We voted here in California to keep the death penalty and I was one of those voters. A lot of people have a harsh background or a low I.Q. And don't commit crimes especially horrendous ones that will get you the death penalty sentence. The only thing I worry about is innocent people being killed, but if the inmate admits to his crime and the evidence backs it up and he did something really horrible I'm all for it. The Sandy Hook Shooter is someone I would have given the death penalty, Andrea Yates as well. They are a danger to others.
In the 1930's, when Iowa had the death penalty, all the lifers in the Iowa Penitentiary signed a letter to the governor asking for clemency for the 4 individuals on death row. Why? Because they recognized that all of the lifers had taken a life, and some of them had done it in ways far more horrendous than those on death row. They spelled this out in a letter to the governor.

CA has the death penalty and voted to retain it, true. But there are plenty of people serving less than death who are guilty as hell of crimes just as bad as those on death row. You're spending millions to house people you're not going to kill when you could have them at a different level of custody, fading into the woodwork, just like those who didn't get death.

It's called "arbitrary and capricious". IL, when trying to decide what to do with the death penalty, discovered the factors that led to death did not include the crime itself. It did include the quality of defense, the IQ of the defendant, the education level of the defendant, the proximity to elections, and some 20 other lesser factors.

It's not fair, no matter how you kill them.
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:09 PM
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IL, when trying to decide what to do with the death penalty, discovered the factors that led to death did not include the crime itself. It did include the quality of defense, the IQ of the defendant, the education level of the defendant, the proximity to elections, and some 20 other lesser factors.
Now that is something I would like to use in debates. Please post a link or some unique search terms that would get me to a citation.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:48 PM
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It's called "arbitrary and capricious". IL, when trying to decide what to do with the death penalty, discovered the factors that led to death did not include the crime itself. It did include the quality of defense, the IQ of the defendant, the education level of the defendant, the proximity to elections, and some 20 other lesser factors.
Do you know where I would look for something similar to this report for California? In the mean time I'm going to take a look at the report you provided a link to. Thank you!!
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:34 AM
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This is a temporary stay - it can be lifted at any time. It will be interesting to see how much lawyering goes on over the long weekend - Monday is a holiday, so the judges won't be in. The State will have to drag the judges out on Monday to try to get the stay lifted, or overturned by a higher court.
Monday isn't a holiday . If you are thinking because Easter is Sunday, that's a religious holiday and not recognized by the state or federal systems.

http://www.sos.arkansas.gov/aboutOff...17Holidays.pdf
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:37 AM
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Monday isn't a holiday . If you are thinking because Easter is Sunday, that's a religious holiday and not recognized by the state or federal systems.

http://www.sos.arkansas.gov/aboutOff...17Holidays.pdf
thought it was simply because tax day is the 18th

Ah, Emancipation Day

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/1...ate-this-year/

Last edited by yourself; 04-15-2017 at 08:41 AM..
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:25 AM
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http://illinoismurderindictments.law...ete-report.pdf
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:53 AM
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Thank you!
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:54 PM
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Default Arkansas Parole Board Recommends Clemency for Death-Row Inmate

April 5, 2017

"The Arkansas Parole Board has recommended that one of the eight men set to be executed during a 10-day span this month receive clemency and be spared capital punishment.. . ."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/u...-clemency.html
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:16 PM
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John Grisham opposing the executions in his home state:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/100119398/

Damien Echols on his decision to go back to Arkansas to protest these executions:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/let...-speak-n744471

The nastiness starts tomorrow, folks.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:19 PM
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fiat_nox fiat_nox is offline
she's baaaaack!
 

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The nastiness starts tomorrow, folks.
The first executions in AR aren't until the 17th?
/confused
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