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Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered People in Prison For anyone that has a same sex partner, family member, friend or Pen Pal in prison that is Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, or Transgendered.

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  #76  
Old 01-16-2017, 12:51 PM
WaitingWilkes WaitingWilkes is offline
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Tammy called Saturday to ask if I was going to visit on Sunday. I told her I planned to and we would discuss everything. She told me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-13 before I went. I'm not religious be I kept her Bible along with her hair brushes, perfume and some frilly underwear. Corinthians 13:4-13: "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." I was nervous as hell when she hugged me hello. She asked me if I read the Bible passage. I told her I had. She took both my hands after we sat down and asked if I believe love is endless and boundless. I told her I do. She said she wanted to wait a few minutes before talked seriously. We made nervous small talk for a while. She said she wanted to grab some goodies from the vending machine once several couples were there. Having other couples to block for us would give us a chance to hug and kiss a little. We stood near the back wall, hugged and she said go ahead, ask me whatever you're going to. I asked why she never told me a thing about Jessica. She said her relationship with Jessica was the only thing she'd had that actually belonged to her. Not to the prison, not to me, only to her. She asked me if I thought her loving Jessica took anything away from me. I told her no but not telling me hurt. She said she was sorry she didn't share it with me but she loved me the same as she always had. I told her "always had" is past tense. She said always did, do now, always will! She put her hands behind my neck and gave me the hottest kiss ever, then she told me it was time for me to be part of a real couple again. She hoped I'd want to keep some kind of a relationship with her if I found someone who wouldn't be jealous of her. Then she hugged me and walked to the desk to ask to go back inside. I'm not sure where I stand. I don't think either of us want a divorce.
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  #77  
Old 01-16-2017, 01:10 PM
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Tammy called Saturday to ask if I was going to visit on Sunday. I told her I planned to and we would discuss everything. She told me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-13 before I went. I'm not religious be I kept her Bible along with her hair brushes, perfume and some frilly underwear. Corinthians 13:4-13: "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." I was nervous as hell when she hugged me hello. She asked me if I read the Bible passage. I told her I had. She took both my hands after we sat down and asked if I believe love is endless and boundless. I told her I do. She said she wanted to wait a few minutes before talked seriously. We made nervous small talk for a while. She said she wanted to grab some goodies from the vending machine once several couples were there. Having other couples to block for us would give us a chance to hug and kiss a little. We stood near the back wall, hugged and she said go ahead, ask me whatever you're going to. I asked why she never told me a thing about Jessica. She said her relationship with Jessica was the only thing she'd had that actually belonged to her. Not to the prison, not to me, only to her. She asked me if I thought her loving Jessica took anything away from me. I told her no but not telling me hurt. She said she was sorry she didn't share it with me but she loved me the same as she always had. I told her "always had" is past tense. She said always did, do now, always will! She put her hands behind my neck and gave me the hottest kiss ever, then she told me it was time for me to be part of a real couple again. She hoped I'd want to keep some kind of a relationship with her if I found someone who wouldn't be jealous of her. Then she hugged me and walked to the desk to ask to go back inside. I'm not sure where I stand. I don't think either of us want a divorce.
You have been set free. She doesn't want you unhappy. Though divorce may not be in your future. You need to find what makes you happy. Best of luck. My advise take some time reflect and see where this journey of life takes you.
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  #78  
Old 01-16-2017, 01:15 PM
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Tammy called Saturday to ask if I was going to visit on Sunday. I told her I planned to and we would discuss everything. She told me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-13 before I went.
All the emotional struggle and upheaval this revelation created for you and she acknowledges her part by quoting scripture and "releasing" you to be with someone else. Nice cop out. Her rationale that "her relationship with Jessica was the only thing she'd had that actually belonged to her. Not to the prison, not to me, only to her" is no different than affairs outside of this situation. People want to feel something special. I'm pointing that out not to justify it, but to say this isn't some next-level sh*t that is unique to prison. She had a run-of-the-mill, self-centered affair.

I really want to see the good part of this, for your sake, but she just made some really fancy hand movements in lieu of an apology or trying to empathize with your pain and LITERALLY walked away.

You're smarter than this. You deserve more than this.
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:16 PM
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Sounds like she calls all the shots, seems she did all the talking. Then she cut your visit Short? .It doesnt matter what the bible says about love she disrespected your relationship by being deceitful. Its not you who needs to read up on it.
You didnt set any boundaries with her or make it clear how you felt. So things remain as they were and I get the feeling you are willing to settle for that.
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  #80  
Old 01-16-2017, 01:55 PM
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You have been set free. She doesn't want you unhappy. Though divorce may not be in your future. You need to find what makes you happy. Best of luck. My advise take some time reflect and see where this journey of life takes you.
I'm not going to do anything for a while. I'm kind of numb.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:06 PM
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I'm not going to do anything for a while. I'm kind of numb.

Preciously my reply take time. The answers will come
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  #82  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:09 PM
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miamac; All the emotional struggle and upheaval this revelation created for you and she acknowledges her part by quoting scripture and "releasing" you to be with someone else. Nice cop out. Her rationale that "her relationship with Jessica was the only thing she'd had that actually belonged to her. Not to the prison, not to me, only to her" is no different than affairs outside of this situation. People want to feel something special. I'm pointing that out not to justify it, but to say this isn't some next-level sh*t that is unique to prison. She had a run-of-the-mill, self-centered affair.

I understand what you mean but I'm not sure the same relationship rules we expect our spouses to follow necessarily apply inside. If she had an affair while we were together (I don't consider what she was convicted of "an affair") it would be one thing. Being with someone when we're permanently separated and she's not permitted to be with me is something else.

I really want to see the good part of this, for your sake, but she just made some really fancy hand movements in lieu of an apology or trying to empathize with your pain and LITERALLY walked away.

I wish she'd given me a chance to talk more but I know her well enough to understand she needed to get away before she lost it in front of everyone and got us terminated.

You're smarter than this. You deserve more than this.

Maybe I do deserve more of a life than I have but what would be the right thing for me to do if she were free and had a crippling accident or came down with Alzheimer's? [/quote]
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  #83  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:26 PM
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You're smarter than this. You deserve more than this.

Maybe I do deserve more of a life than I have but what would be the right thing for me to do if she were free and had a crippling accident or came down with Alzheimer's?
She didn't suffer an accident nor find herself battling a disabling condition. We've been 'round and 'round on her culpability and her sentence and I think so long as you view her as a victim of society, regardless of the harm she causes and to whom, you will defend her poor choices. That's your decision, though I'm starting to feel as if you've got some big stuff to work on there and you truly don't see it that way.

I do believe you're smarter than this. But acting on that means telling the martyr in you that you no longer need him. That's huge. Like qualified therapist, huge. I hope you decide to take that leap one day.
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  #84  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:50 PM
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maytayah;7596608]Sounds like she calls all the shots,

I never felt the need to call any shots before.

seems she did all the talking. Then she cut your visit Short? .It doesnt matter what the bible says about love she disrespected your relationship by being deceitful. Its not you who needs to read up on it.

I'd have felt a lot better if she'd told me but I wouldn't have told her I didn't want her to do it.

You didnt set any boundaries with her or make it clear how you felt.

The system sets plenty of suffocating boundaries. Has anyone ever told an incarcerated spouse "you have to do this!" or "You can't do that!"?

So things remain as they were and I get the feeling you are willing to settle for that.

I don't actually know how things are with us.
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Old 01-17-2017, 01:09 AM
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I kinda see it as an invitation to be poly amorous from her. It's not the best way to present it nor the best way to start it. Poly relationships are built on a HUGE amount of trust and communication. Any romantic relationship requires those 2 things however when it comes to poly relationships it's even more so because they are adding a 3rd or 4th or 5th etc person into it. It works out just fine but only if everyone is completely honest with themselves and their partners. This may or may not be something you are considering or even took away from your visit.

Look at it this way her situation [willfully and unwillingly] doesn't allow you to be together in a traditional romantic relationship. In this case, traditional =/= monogamous. Ask yourself at some point [you don't have to reply] are you happy being in a relationship with her while she is also in a relationship with Jessica? What does "some kind of relationship" mean to you and her? Is she referencing "some kind of relationship" to be romantic or platonic?

In the end, you'll have to figure out what YOU want. What are your boundaries and how those help determine your kind of happiness.
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  #86  
Old 01-17-2017, 04:19 AM
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I'd feel numb, too. This is heavy duty stuff.
I know you love her but my feeling is (coming straight from my gut) is that the love you've once shared is over. There's a chance to a new kind of love - that of a true and deep emotional bond as in friendship. Divorce doesn't have to happen, I wouldn't even go that far but my feeling is that she's made a decision for herself and by letting you know that, it's a form of a release for you out of this (kind of) relationship.
Take your time figuring it all out but try to move forward, keeping the time and memory in your heart but maybe try to find a new better half to your life.
This makes me sad though - for you. I wish in my past I would've found a guy standing by me like you stood by your wife all those years.
Let's have a group-hug
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  #87  
Old 01-17-2017, 02:08 PM
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Silenus;I kinda see it as an invitation to be poly amorous from her.

Or another test.

It's not the best way to present it nor the best way to start it.

Saying something like "I don't care what or who you do and I expect the same from you" would have been clearer, if that's what she was telling me.

Poly relationships are built on a HUGE amount of trust and communication.

Discussing serious relationship issues is damned difficult for a free/incarcerated couple, something I'm sure you and most of our fellow PTO members also experience. There's no good way to do it unless you're lucky enough to have "family visits".

Any romantic relationship requires those 2 things however when it comes to poly relationships it's even more so because they are adding a 3rd or 4th or 5th etc person into it. It works out just fine but only if everyone is completely honest with themselves and their partners. This may or may not be something you are considering or even took away from your visit.

What I've had with other women haven't been romantic or relationships. I've avoided getting emotionally involved with anyone I've saved that for my wife. She had a romantic relationship to fill a hole in her life. There's a hole in mine. Maybe I should fill it, too.

Look at it this way her situation [willfully and unwillingly] doesn't allow you to be together in a traditional romantic relationship. In this case, traditional =/= monogamous. Ask yourself at some point [you don't have to reply] are you happy being in a relationship with her while she is also in a relationship with Jessica?

I'm kind of glad that she managed to find some happiness in that bleak concrete hell now that I've had some time to get used to the idea. I don't feel that their relationship actually takes anything away from me. Jessica still seems to care about her even tough she's back with her husband. There's still something real between Tammy and Jessica.

What does "some kind of relationship" mean to you and her? Is she referencing "some kind of relationship" to be romantic or platonic?

I guess she means I should find a significant other out here like she did in there. We need to talk a lot more.

In the end, you'll have to figure out what YOU want. What are your boundaries and how those help determine your kind of happiness.

She said being with Jessica didn't take anything away from me. I guess I have to decide whether being with someone will take anything away from Tammy, or whether she'll feel like it does.
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:16 PM
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miamac;She didn't suffer an accident nor find herself battling a disabling condition. We've been 'round and 'round on her culpability and her sentence and I think so long as you view her as a victim of society, regardless of the harm she causes and to whom, you will defend her poor choices.

I'm not trying to argue but do you think I should stop loving her, having empathy for her or wanting her to be as happy as she's able to be? Some PTO members' LOs have sold poison to kids or murdered people. Should members abandon them?

That's your decision, though I'm starting to feel as if you've got some big stuff to work on there and you truly don't see it that way.

I do have a lot of work to do. I guess we both do, individually and as a couple, if we remain a couple.

I do believe you're smarter than this. But acting on that means telling the martyr in you that you no longer need him. That's huge. Like qualified therapist, huge. I hope you decide to take that leap one day.

Believe me, I'm not thinking about much else.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:06 PM
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miamac;She didn't suffer an accident nor find herself battling a disabling condition. We've been 'round and 'round on her culpability and her sentence and I think so long as you view her as a victim of society, regardless of the harm she causes and to whom, you will defend her poor choices.

I'm not trying to argue but do you think I should stop loving her, having empathy for her or wanting her to be as happy as she's able to be? Some PTO members' LOs have sold poison to kids or murdered people. Should members abandon them?
Nooo, hun. I'm not suggesting you stop loving her and this isn't about her charges. Loving someone and them being healthy for us are not synonymous.

One of the reasons you've given for staying is that her circumstances (incarceration, mental health issues) have created a sense of fragility. Maybe she's not the only one with some breakable parts?

"Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a long time making it."

If remaining in Tammy's life is what's best for you, then OK. I think most of us could understand that. But you don't have to be her romantic partner to do it.
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:19 PM
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. . . Has anyone ever told an incarcerated spouse "you have to do this!" or "You can't do that!"? . . .
YES. I have done exactly that.
I don't want to hijack your thread - I'll PM you later tonight.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:08 PM
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I think honestly you may want to consider having your own relationship too, to me it's only fair. Why is it ok for her to do but not you?

Wilkes, I think if you can approach this advice here, it could help you out. You may remember my situation--which hasn't changed, and she can still go to hell--it was a tough pill to swallow, but once I decided it was best for ME to leave that relationship, ive done and felt a lot better about myself.

Thoughts are with you, WW..hang in there bud. PM me anytime.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:10 PM
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Wilkes, I think if you can approach this advice here, it could help you out. You may remember my situation--which hasn't changed, and she can still go to hell--it was a tough pill to swallow, but once I decided it was best for ME to leave that relationship, ive done and felt a lot better about myself.

Thoughts are with you, WW..hang in there bud. PM me anytime.
You and I have both been hurt. You were probably right to end your relationship. It was probably not salvageable, since she was giving you nothing but grief. I don't want to throw away what I have with my wife but I have to internalize the fact that things have changed. She and I are both going to have to adapt. We need to form a new relationship. She told me she loves me and still wants me in her life. I have to decide what being in her life will mean from here on.
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:10 PM
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That's a step in the right direction, Wilkes. It's the first time I've heard you think about yourself, and that's healthy!
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:58 PM
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That's a step in the right direction, Wilkes. It's the first time I've heard you think about yourself, and that's healthy!
I'm doing my best to deal with everything. Coaches like to say "There's no "I" in TEAM". There isn't an "I" in COUPLE either but I guess I need to start thinking about us as something other than a couple if I'm going to get my stuff together.
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Old 01-22-2017, 06:07 PM
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But there is an "i" in marriage....and it's a very important one.
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:55 PM
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i just couldn't stop myself . . .

TEAM.png

[but I can't find U]
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:05 PM
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i just couldn't stop myself . . .

Attachment 74092

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Restrain your exuberance, woman!
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:10 PM
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I'm not reading all of this, but it does seem like you are looking for acceptance from us. An outide relationship is an outside relationship, incarcerated or not. She should have been honest with you once she developed feelings for this outsider. Bisexual or not, this woman experienced what you have not been able to for over 2 decades. There is no point in waiting for someone who isn't waiting for you, and the ironic part is that she has more freedom in prison than you do on the outside. I would not think twice about this and would focus my attention on living for me, since she is no longer honoring her vows to you and blatantly disrespecting you. You deserve better, no matter how long you were together. Sometimes you can cut yourself by holding on too tight. I hope you stop allowing yourself to be used and start living for yourself.
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  #99  
Old 01-25-2017, 09:26 PM
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*BellaEstrella* *BellaEstrella* is offline
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In addition, that visit seemed premeditated as hell, so dramatic and made-for-tv-esque. She had no intention on visitin with you, wasted your time, hopes and gas. She wanted to half-ass address the issue so she could put it past her and so you would drop it. Hell, you didn't even get anything from the vending machine. She wasn't trying to avoid a breakdown, she didn't want to face the music and be a woman, own her shyt. Acknowledge your feelings. She is still trying to contact the woman, so its still an ongoing relationship. She bid you farewell with that tacky kiss. That wasn't a farewells peck, that was a 'I kno I have you wrapped around my finger and this is the most action you've had in a long time, so take this kiss, do what you want, bc I'm gonna continue to do what I want, just keep taking care of me, bc I'm extremely selfish'. Right down to not giving you a chance to say goodbye. I bet if you ignore her for a couple weeks, she will find a way to flip it on you and start throwing around 'wife' like she's done no wrong. Honey, a divorce wouldn't matter either way to her, you are the only one holding on.
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:24 AM
WaitingWilkes WaitingWilkes is offline
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I'm not reading all of this, but it does seem like you are looking for acceptance from us.

I'm not looking for acceptance. I'm looking for advice and maybe different perspectives from mine. Men and women think differently. I think being a guy might limit my frame of reference. Hearing from women helps me expand my understanding of the situation.

An outside relationship is an outside relationship, incarcerated or not. She should have been honest with you once she developed feelings for this outsider.

Not telling me bothers me more than doing it.

Bisexual or not, this woman experienced what you have not been able to for over 2 decades.

She told me a long time ago that I should "date" when I needed to, which I have. I didn't get emotionally involved with anyone and I hid nothing from her.

There is no point in waiting for someone who isn't waiting for you, and the ironic part is that she has more freedom in prison than you do on the outside.


I had freedom to "date". I avoided getting emotionally involved. She didn't.

I would not think twice about this and would focus my attention on living for me, since she is no longer honoring her vows to you and blatantly disrespecting you. You deserve better, no matter how long you were together. Sometimes you can cut yourself by holding on too tight. I hope you stop allowing yourself to be used and start living for yourself.

I've found someone who's interested. Not sure where it will go from there.
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