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Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered People in Prison For anyone that has a same sex partner, family member, friend or Pen Pal in prison that is Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, or Transgendered.

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  #51  
Old 08-27-2016, 01:47 PM
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sexuality in the context of single gender systems is not well understood. We do know that there are plenty of men and women in prison who claim to be heterosexual/straight. On the outside, they live predominantly to totally straight lives. When incarcerated, they live celibate lives if the term is short. Longer terms see more and more apparently straight people engaging in homosexual activities. Some even believe that if they are getting oral, or the ones doing the penetrating (for men), then they are still straight. Some engage in very intimate relationships in coupling formats whereas the inmate "family" structure is more dominant in female only prisons with a father and mother inmate as a couple approving or disproving of the bf/gf's of their "children" and other "family" members.

This area is not well researched, but it is a known phenomena across the board.

The same is probably true of gender identity in prison, but it is something that is not understood nor studied. Just as sexuality demonstrates its fluidity much more in single sex environments, gender probably does as well. Diagnoses of transsexualism in prison are therefor highly suspect when the patient is claiming gender dysphoria only in the prison setting. A male inmate who is claiming dysphoria has never lived as a woman among women and surgically altering that inmate and placing that inmate in a women's prison could be far more disastrous than leaving the inmate in a men's prison, but in special population or a psychiatric population.

As we know virtually nothing about the fluidity of gender in adult single sex populations like long term sentenced prison populations, I don't think anybody can conclusively say that an inmate is being tortured by not being granted sex reassignment surgery.

This is not to say that an inmate who had already started transitioning, whether with hormones or not, should be defined by the presence or absence of a penis. That inmate is in a completely different class.

But, when we're talking about an inmate who expressed no gender issues before prison (barring wanting to play softball instead of baseball, but no issues as an adult) is incarcerated for a long period of time and during the course of that long period of time starts experiencing dysphoria, I seriously doubt whether transitioning through surgery and then popping that inmate into the prison of the opposite binary is a good thing.

This is the one case where I support private prisons. A private prison that was aimed at dealing with GID and the associated populations, allowing those who should transition to transition and allowing those who shouldn't to not have the pressure to transition would be a good thing provided that prison supplied all of the appropriate supports for this particular special population, including security. But, nobody is working towards such a creature just as nobody is researching the fluidity of gender identity in single gender environments like prison.

Is it torture to keep somebody in a men's prison while he has male anatomy and not pay for his surgery when he's never lived as a woman among women? Assuming his GID is real and not environmental? probably. If it is environmental, then what do we do? We certainly don't transition the guy, send him to a women's prison, and then deal with him again when he realizes that he's not a woman (can anybody say, "law suit"?).

The guy in the case at bar also bears the problem of being a rapist, if I remember correctly, with a long history of violence against women. He would not fair well in a women's prison once it's known and with his celebrity status, it will be quickly known. But that is a tangential issue for the guy.

Fwiw, the thread is more than a year old, and the OP has been banned for similar threads, all decrying the treatment of her people. Some of her rough handling by posters has been a result of past problems with her.

I would be interested in what the research suggests about people who don't fit the gender binary mold who face prison. Other than, "don't get caught doing something that will send you to prison" and low level felonies getting treated differently because of the inability of the system to cram such a person into the binary, I don't know what happens. Similarly, when it comes to any governmental binary, I don't know what happens - do we treat people differently than we did 20 or more years ago? are we able to leave the birth certificate blank on a non binary infant? what happens with selective service? And now that the school based bathroom/locker room problem is getting ugly, how are families and youth who haven't been assigned a binary dealing with it?

Society as a whole hasn't figured out that gender and sexuality are two separate things, and that both live on a spectrum. I do wish we were more tolerant of the spectrum as a whole, but a significant portion of society is still having a problem with people being gay. Understanding that gender identification is fluid - heck, ask Caitlyn Jenner about that one.
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  #52  
Old 09-01-2016, 04:16 AM
Zoe Brain Zoe Brain is offline
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Oh, and one last thing - no f2m trans will ever understand what it feels like to be kicked in the balls

no m2f trans will ever understand what a menstrual cramp feels like, nor will they understand menopause.
Unless they're Intersex. Though a trans woman denied hormones will get all the issues of going through menopause, hot flushes, brittle bones...
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  #53  
Old 09-01-2016, 04:34 AM
Zoe Brain Zoe Brain is offline
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I don't think anybody can conclusively say that an inmate is being tortured by not being granted sex reassignment surgery.
I don't agree, for one reason. Rate of suicide if treatment is denied when it's deemed medically necessary. That's not every case, or even most, but it is for some. Sometimes death is accidental, the result of attempts to perform the surgery by the prisoner herself, using razor blades etc.

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I would be interested in what the research suggests about people who don't fit the gender binary mold who face prison.
While there's been some research on Transsexual prisoners, there's been nothing on gender fluid ones, any borderline or ambiguous cases have been deliberately excluded so as to get a clean result.

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Society as a whole hasn't figured out that gender and sexuality are two separate things, and that both live on a spectrum. I do wish we were more tolerant of the spectrum as a whole, but a significant portion of society is still having a problem with people being gay. Understanding that gender identification is fluid - heck, ask Caitlyn Jenner about that one.
Gender, Gender Identity, Sexual Orientation and Biological Sex - none are strict binaries. All are multidimensional and continuous, not discrete. However, in the great majority of cases, a binary model works well enough. About as well as a Flat Earth model. Fine for walking to the corner store, driving to work, but increasingly poor for accurate surveying or long distance travel.

In the days of segregated prisons, Black vs White worked about as well. Chinese prisoners caused head-scratching, and while someone 1/128 African American was White in California, they were Black in Virginia.

So such ambiguous situations are not new. What's different now is there's less slack in the system, more regulations rather than "play it by ear".
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  #54  
Old 09-01-2016, 04:48 AM
Zoe Brain Zoe Brain is offline
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Gender is mostly socially constructed. It differs from place to place and time to time. In the 19th century, pink was deemed a "masculine" colour, blue a "feminine" one. A small proportion, negligible in most contexts, important only in a few, appears to have a biological basis, but this should not be over-emphasised, as it has been historically as a pseudoscientific excuse to oppress women.

Biological sex is mostly not socially constructed. That's obvious. Social construction is a small proportion, negligible in most contexts, with only a small bit socially constructed.

As in Trans people, whose biological sex is deemed to legally change depending on geographic location, and even context.

We are dealing with exceptional situations here. Dismissing them as exceptional is innappropriate. We have to deal with the situation in a humane and in the USA, Constitutionally appropriate manner.
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  #55  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:30 PM
tdj tdj is offline
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As I foresaw the Supreme court ruled against Ms.Kosilek. So they have nine sadists there using the highest power. People who feel that some people can be treated as non-humans. Now it will be a precedent that will allow prison officials to deny all surgeries perhaps for decades to come. And liberal politicians like Mr. Patrick and Ms. Coakley allowed this to happen. Ms. Harris is allowing the same in CA. When it comes to the transgender inmates the claim-to-be pro human rights politicians act as they would wholly agree with prison officials that are extremely biased. The prison officials decision both relating to the medical treatment and the placement of transgender inmates have agreed 100% with the religious right/ and so called TERF-movement. The prison officials have really showed their side.
I think it's important to understand some things associated with this. The main issue of course is that our country is flat busted broke. I've been reading on my own local paper how our county lockup is so run down and awful that the inmates don't even have heat or air conditioning. There have been a spate of inmates found dead in their cells because they haven't been getting the proper medical treatment. Not suicides, but deaths from not being treated. I think that might be part of the reason why they don't support the idea of a transgender person getting the surgery. They see it as a luxury, and a VERY expensive one at that. The vast majority of people simply can't relate to the hell a transgender person must go through when they are stuck with a body they absolutely HATE, and want to change at all costs just to have a bit of peace.

So I don't see it as them being sadistic at all, but it's a combination of simply not being able to understand and relate, AND the fact that the whole nation is broke like it's never been broke before. We are so far in debt, that it may be too much for us EVER to get out of, and a small group of people are asking for an extremely expensive surgery to be provided and paid FOR them, that is not required in maintaining their physical existence. Don't get me wrong, I can't relate, but I do FEEL for them. It's just that sometimes it helps to cope with these decisions if we step back and look at their point of view and the overall big picture.
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