Welcome to the Prison Talk Online Community! Take a Minute and Sign Up Today!






Go Back   Prison Talk > U.S. REGIONAL FORUMS > WISCONSIN > Wisconsin General Prison Talk, News, Introductions & Chit Chat
Register Entertainment FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Wisconsin General Prison Talk, News, Introductions & Chit Chat Topics & Discussions relating to Prison & the Criminal Justice System in Wisconsin that do not fit into any other Wisconsin sub-forum category. Please feel free to also introduce yourself to other members in the state and talk about whatever topics come to mind that may not have anything to do with prison.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-07-2018, 11:02 AM
KenZee KenZee is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Insane treatment of inmates: 1 AM urine sample; fire drill in extreme cold

I just received a letter from a friend who is incarcerated at the Redgranite Correctional Institution. He tells me that recently they woke him up at 1 AM for a urine sample, but since he had emptied his bladder after watching a late nite movie which ended at midnight, he was unable to give them a sample. They gave him until the 3 AM count to produce the required 3 ounces or the following would result: He would be taken to Seg, have all his property gone through and inventoried, he would lose his cell assignment and cellmate and he would receive a Major Conduct Report for Disobeying a Direct Order (which carries up to 360 days in Seg and 15 days of goodtime and/or 30 days extended sentence). These kinds of abuses are taking place here on a regular basis. On the coldest days this past winter Inmates were herded out into the cold courtyard for a fire drill and made to stand against the wall until count was cleared. In one case they stood for 45 minutes in the bitter cold without coats. When will this end?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-07-2018, 12:12 PM
nygirl17 nygirl17 is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,532
Thanks: 153
Thanked 2,973 Times in 1,799 Posts
Default

This doesn't just happen to your LO this happens everywhere. Unfortunately when your in prison you are at there mercy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-07-2018, 12:24 PM
CenTexLyn CenTexLyn is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: TX-US
Posts: 14,913
Thanks: 648
Thanked 11,099 Times in 6,007 Posts
Default

Both actually make sense from a security standpoint.

MUCH drug and alcohol consumption in prisons occurs after the lights out rack-up, which is usually somewhere between 10P and midnight in a lot of States.

As to fire drills, actual emergencies often occur in conditions that are nowhere near ideal. Accordingly, it makes sense to run the drills in a condition where the emergency is most likely to take place. It isn't just prisons that actually look for poor conditions to run drills...I have even seen retirement communities that ran drills in cold weather precisely because that is when someone is apt to have a heater decide to tip over and catch fire or have some other overloaded circuits that decide to pop.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CenTexLyn For This Useful Post:
miamac (04-07-2018), NewTexGal (04-08-2018), Sarianna (04-08-2018), xolady (04-08-2018)
  #4  
Old 04-07-2018, 12:43 PM
miamac's Avatar
miamac miamac is online now
Site Moderator

Staff Superstar Winner PTO Site Moderator 

 

Join Date: May 2013
Location: ORnativeAZresCAtied
Posts: 11,067
Thanks: 14,899
Thanked 21,956 Times in 7,790 Posts
Default

I'm wit CTL. These are not abuses but rather pretty standard practice.

I seem to recall fire drills in pouring rain in grade school that were pretty inconvenient. If your classroom didn't file by the coatrack because of the layout of your nearest emergency exit, tough luck. Our teachers would snatch us bald for getting them in trouble with the fire marshall and being late but dry.

There are things that happen that seem unfair. But as CTL said, a lot of people are up all night and sleep all day in prison. So a 1am UA is completely reasonable. Fires and disasters happen at the least opportune times. He may not like it, but neither of those are abuses.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to miamac For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-07-2018), NewTexGal (04-08-2018), Sarianna (04-08-2018), xolady (04-08-2018)
  #5  
Old 04-07-2018, 12:57 PM
Ms Sunny Ms Sunny is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Northern NY
Posts: 919
Thanks: 1,813
Thanked 933 Times in 405 Posts
Default

Security wise, they evacuate before getting a chance to flush contraband. Also, counts are done 24/7, so if a count is off ....like the mi!itary.
Real abuse isn't just getting woke and being cold. That's life in general.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ms Sunny For This Useful Post:
xolady (04-08-2018)
  #6  
Old 04-07-2018, 01:34 PM
maytayah's Avatar
maytayah maytayah is online now
Lil British Site Moderator

Staff Superstar Winner PTO Site Moderator 

 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: England Uk
Posts: 8,378
Thanks: 8,210
Thanked 10,988 Times in 4,576 Posts
Default

I have to agree that standard advice for everyone is if a fire alarm goes off you leave the building and go to a fire assembly point. Fire doesnt wait for you to get a coat and hat. I have to say I am glad they are running fire drills.If they are going to do them then they should be under real conditions.
Prisons arent cosy places we all know that I am sure many bad things happen but these particular things dont sound cruel and unusual.
__________________
"Do not judge me by my successes, judge me by how many times I fell down and got back up again." Nelson Mandela.

Who cares what they say about us? Because when I am with you I am standing with an army.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to maytayah For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-07-2018), xolady (04-08-2018)
  #7  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:19 PM
ItsMe81's Avatar
ItsMe81 ItsMe81 is offline
AmyLynn
 

Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Indiana
Posts: 610
Thanks: 516
Thanked 386 Times in 199 Posts
Default

When you aren't aware of prison procedures I guess it would sound terrible but its not. I think its good they do it in severe conditions because if it was the real thing, no fire is gonna wait for you to grab your coat. Even in school for me it was never convenient.
__________________
❤You aren't just my GREAT LOVE story, you were my BIG BREAK. And Our love story, I know it might not feel like it right now, but I promise its just getting started❤
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ItsMe81 For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-07-2018), xolady (04-08-2018)
  #8  
Old 04-07-2018, 04:54 PM
Wallflower78me's Avatar
Wallflower78me Wallflower78me is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 186
Thanks: 53
Thanked 95 Times in 62 Posts
Default

Iím sorry that happened I hate how inmates are treated. They are still human beings. Travis told me about a day they had them outside waiting in the cold for almost an hour over dumb shit. A lot of times it is just to fuck with them in my opinion. Prison is there for punishment but itís become a money making profit that doesnít produce rehabilitation. They want these inmates to keep coming back.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-08-2018, 10:24 AM
KenZee KenZee is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Where is the common sense?

I don't wonder why so few Wisconsinites are visiting this forum. The responses to my post indicate to me that concern for inmates is not high on the list.

Wallflower appears to be the only one whose response shows she understands the problem.

Let me begin with ItsMe's condescending statement..."When you aren't aware of prison procedures..."

For your information ItsMe, I spent 10 years in several Wisconsin prisons. I currently visit 4 inmates in three institutions and correspond with inmates in most Wisconsin Correctional facilities. Two of my friends are current correctional officers and two other friends are retired Wisconsin Correctional officers. Two cousins work as correctional officers in Green Bay. So you see ItsMe, I am aware of prison procedures, a whole lot more aware than anyone else who commented on my post.

CenTexLyn doesn't seem to realize that virtually any drug or alchohol can be detected in a urine sample for days. There was no justifiable reason for waking that man from a sound sleep to have him give a urine sample. Having him provide a sample at 7 AM would have been just as effective. And another thing, CenTexLyn, it is common knowledge throughout the system as well as out here in the free world that whenever an inmate is suspected of just having injested some drug, they are to wait a minimum of 3 hours before taking a urine sample. That is how long it takes for the body to process drugs before they show up in urine.

And then there's moderator miamac's absurd statement that since these things are common practice, they are not abuses. It was many of those "common practices" that caused our governor to close a juvenile prison here in Wisconsin. If tomorrow it becomes a common practice to chain inmates to a wall and flog them, I suppose that will be acceptable since it will be a common practice. Is there any common sense in any of you?

Fire drills. We all know what tinder boxes all that steel and concrete can be, but that aside, there can be no justification for making inmates stand out in sub zero temperatures three times in the same week, without coats and in some cases, without socks. Severe frostbite occured with several inmates and others on cell restriction with things like pneumonia or recovering from surgery were also forced to participate. Ya ya, fires when they happen will require those sick people to vacate too, but this was a DRILL and not an actual emergency. Common humanity should tell you that this is abuse. When a fire drill occurs during the day, of course one would not expect that inmates should run to their cells for coats, but when it's night and you are already in your cell/room, grabbing a coat was still not an option. In one of these drills inmates who grabbed coats were made to return them to their rooms. Tell me that abuse wasn't the goal. 45 minutes to an hour for a fire drill is insane. Oh, but they have to clear the counts, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah. If you have 200 men in your housing unit who all have to pass through one door, one or two guards standing at that door should certainly be capable of counting those men as they pass by. And then 5 or 10 minutes later count them as they march back into the unit. What in the hell is so complicated that a count should take an hour? According to one retired correctional officer friend, they do it just to mess with inmates just as Wallflower stated.

The bottom line is, there is no transparency in the system. Inmates are kept isolated from the real world and we out here have to depend on insiders to find out what is really taking place. The United States incarcerates a greater percentage of its people than any other country in the world. Wake up people. If you care about inmates, make your voices heard. If you don't care about inmates and choose instead to try and justify the cruelty shown towards inmates, at least find another forum to spew your lack of compassion garbage.

Have a good day!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to KenZee For This Useful Post:
candy (05-08-2018)
  #10  
Old 04-08-2018, 11:31 AM
miamac's Avatar
miamac miamac is online now
Site Moderator

Staff Superstar Winner PTO Site Moderator 

 

Join Date: May 2013
Location: ORnativeAZresCAtied
Posts: 11,067
Thanks: 14,899
Thanked 21,956 Times in 7,790 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenZee View Post
Is there any common sense in any of you?
Yes, and 1am UAs and fire drills during inclemate weather aren't abuse. They are standard practice and common sense.

You may have a wealth of experience in incarceration, but your friend has done a very good job of riling you up over nothing more than a mere inconvenience. There are true abuses happening in prisons all over the country, these are not them.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to miamac For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-09-2018), Fridyrr.Likn (08-15-2018), ItsMe81 (04-08-2018), maytayah (04-08-2018), Ms Sunny (04-09-2018), OnlyInTexas (04-09-2018), safran (04-08-2018), Sarianna (04-08-2018)
  #11  
Old 04-08-2018, 12:23 PM
maytayah's Avatar
maytayah maytayah is online now
Lil British Site Moderator

Staff Superstar Winner PTO Site Moderator 

 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: England Uk
Posts: 8,378
Thanks: 8,210
Thanked 10,988 Times in 4,576 Posts
Default

I am sorry to hear that you dont like the responses you have had. However fire drills and random drug testing are not cruel and unusual punishments. You are clearly passionate about the prison system and I am sure you do know more than all of us if you say so.Perhaps you could use your knowledge to campaign against some real abuse going on in the system as I am sure there is plenty.
Wishing you every success.
__________________
"Do not judge me by my successes, judge me by how many times I fell down and got back up again." Nelson Mandela.

Who cares what they say about us? Because when I am with you I am standing with an army.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to maytayah For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-09-2018), ItsMe81 (04-08-2018), miamac (04-08-2018), Sarianna (04-08-2018)
  #12  
Old 04-08-2018, 12:25 PM
safran's Avatar
safran safran is offline
Owned
 

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Azkaban
Posts: 3,343
Thanks: 1,475
Thanked 4,265 Times in 1,926 Posts
Default

"Is there any common sense in any of you?"

Yes, I have a great deal of common sense as do several other realistic and practical members.

Just because we do not agree with you does not mean we are wrong or lacking common sense. It merely means we do not agree with you.
__________________
Owned

Last edited by safran; 04-08-2018 at 12:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to safran For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-09-2018), ItsMe81 (04-08-2018), Sarianna (04-08-2018), xolady (04-09-2018)
  #13  
Old 04-08-2018, 12:58 PM
Marseille's Avatar
Marseille Marseille is online now
Registered User
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Dakota, USA
Posts: 1,852
Thanks: 664
Thanked 3,726 Times in 1,161 Posts
Default

At the prison where I work, I’m required to evacuate during a fire drill too. So are the guards, the chaplain, the warden... we all freeze when it’s winter. Big f’n deal.

Also, if the movie ended “after midnight” and the sample was requested at 1, he wasn’t in a deep sleep. I am willing to place a bet that there was a reason for the pop whiz quiz. Obviously your friend wouldn’t have told you about that.
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Marseille For This Useful Post:
ItsMe81 (04-08-2018), Ms Sunny (04-09-2018), xolady (04-09-2018)
  #14  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:48 PM
CenTexLyn CenTexLyn is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: TX-US
Posts: 14,913
Thanks: 648
Thanked 11,099 Times in 6,007 Posts
Default

Well, hell...I guess my 30+ years in the criminal justice realm didn't teach me anything. Never learned how to defend clients who had UA testing done...never managed a unit...never had the misfortune of being rousted from a hotel room at 3AM in crappy weather, wearing next to nothing, due to an ACTUAL fire.

Anyone that thinks the concrete and steel nature of a prison precludes devastation in a fire must have been sleeping during many high-rise incidents (to include the one yesterday). There is a LOT in the overheads that can cause fumes. It is not just flame that someone has to be concerned with...

Quite honestly, agencies ought to be running far more emergency drills than they do. The fact that they are NOT being conducted routinely is just begging for litigation when (not if) an evacuation event takes place.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CenTexLyn For This Useful Post:
miamac (04-08-2018), safran (04-08-2018), xolady (04-09-2018)
  #15  
Old 04-08-2018, 07:42 PM
miamac's Avatar
miamac miamac is online now
Site Moderator

Staff Superstar Winner PTO Site Moderator 

 

Join Date: May 2013
Location: ORnativeAZresCAtied
Posts: 11,067
Thanks: 14,899
Thanked 21,956 Times in 7,790 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CenTexLyn View Post
...never had the misfortune of being rousted from a hotel room at 3AM in crappy weather, wearing next to nothing, due to an ACTUAL fire.
Seattle, 4:45 am, I was in the shower and it was because someone's hairdryer burst into flames.

OP-- Depending on the length of time your friend has been inside, this may be new to him and his response would be proportionate to his experience. But if you're very familiar with incarceration, you should know that these are not abuses and could have used your experience to try to reassure him.

The UA is a bit of a rattle and not being able to produce has landed guiltless people in some hot water. But I have to ask if you really understand why that happens? I do. If my husband couldn't give them a sample for any reason, the same would happen to him and as a former user, he knows exactly why. I won't outline the ways a person can attempt to conceal their use to pass a UA, but they exist.

But a 45-1 hour fire drill for an entire prison? That's just whining.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to miamac For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-09-2018), Ms Sunny (04-09-2018), safran (04-08-2018), Sarianna (04-09-2018), xolady (04-09-2018)
  #16  
Old 04-09-2018, 05:06 AM
Ms Sunny Ms Sunny is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Northern NY
Posts: 919
Thanks: 1,813
Thanked 933 Times in 405 Posts
Default

Your curt response to opinions you solicited was uncalled for, and basically if you are as experienced as you claim, you would know what real jail abuse is.
The reality is what it is.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ms Sunny For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-09-2018), ItsMe81 (04-09-2018), safran (04-09-2018)
  #17  
Old 04-09-2018, 08:05 AM
xolady xolady is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2014
Location: highlands, florida
Posts: 5,749
Thanks: 12,241
Thanked 5,984 Times in 3,114 Posts
Default

As for the UA oh well they aren't as random as you think and if someone can't produce a sample then they know its a dirty automatically in any facility in the country.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to xolady For This Useful Post:
Ms Sunny (04-09-2018)
  #18  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:40 AM
ItsMe81's Avatar
ItsMe81 ItsMe81 is offline
AmyLynn
 

Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Indiana
Posts: 610
Thanks: 516
Thanked 386 Times in 199 Posts
Default

Lol angry much? Sorry you don't like the truth.
__________________
❤You aren't just my GREAT LOVE story, you were my BIG BREAK. And Our love story, I know it might not feel like it right now, but I promise its just getting started❤

Last edited by ItsMe81; 04-09-2018 at 11:38 AM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ItsMe81 For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-09-2018)
  #19  
Old 04-09-2018, 12:09 PM
Straight Straight is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: dallas tx
Posts: 903
Thanks: 64
Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenZee View Post
I don't wonder why so few Wisconsinites are visiting this forum. The responses to my post indicate to me that concern for inmates is not high on the list.

Wallflower appears to be the only one whose response shows she understands the problem.

Let me begin with ItsMe's condescending statement..."When you aren't aware of prison procedures..."

For your information ItsMe, I spent 10 years in several Wisconsin prisons. I currently visit 4 inmates in three institutions and correspond with inmates in most Wisconsin Correctional facilities. Two of my friends are current correctional officers and two other friends are retired Wisconsin Correctional officers. Two cousins work as correctional officers in Green Bay. So you see ItsMe, I am aware of prison procedures, a whole lot more aware than anyone else who commented on my post.

CenTexLyn doesn't seem to realize that virtually any drug or alchohol can be detected in a urine sample for days. There was no justifiable reason for waking that man from a sound sleep to have him give a urine sample. Having him provide a sample at 7 AM would have been just as effective. And another thing, CenTexLyn, it is common knowledge throughout the system as well as out here in the free world that whenever an inmate is suspected of just having injested some drug, they are to wait a minimum of 3 hours before taking a urine sample. That is how long it takes for the body to process drugs before they show up in urine.

And then there's moderator miamac's absurd statement that since these things are common practice, they are not abuses. It was many of those "common practices" that caused our governor to close a juvenile prison here in Wisconsin. If tomorrow it becomes a common practice to chain inmates to a wall and flog them, I suppose that will be acceptable since it will be a common practice. Is there any common sense in any of you?

Fire drills. We all know what tinder boxes all that steel and concrete can be, but that aside, there can be no justification for making inmates stand out in sub zero temperatures three times in the same week, without coats and in some cases, without socks. Severe frostbite occured with several inmates and others on cell restriction with things like pneumonia or recovering from surgery were also forced to participate. Ya ya, fires when they happen will require those sick people to vacate too, but this was a DRILL and not an actual emergency. Common humanity should tell you that this is abuse. When a fire drill occurs during the day, of course one would not expect that inmates should run to their cells for coats, but when it's night and you are already in your cell/room, grabbing a coat was still not an option. In one of these drills inmates who grabbed coats were made to return them to their rooms. Tell me that abuse wasn't the goal. 45 minutes to an hour for a fire drill is insane. Oh, but they have to clear the counts, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah. If you have 200 men in your housing unit who all have to pass through one door, one or two guards standing at that door should certainly be capable of counting those men as they pass by. And then 5 or 10 minutes later count them as they march back into the unit. What in the hell is so complicated that a count should take an hour? According to one retired correctional officer friend, they do it just to mess with inmates just as Wallflower stated.

The bottom line is, there is no transparency in the system. Inmates are kept isolated from the real world and we out here have to depend on insiders to find out what is really taking place. The United States incarcerates a greater percentage of its people than any other country in the world. Wake up people. If you care about inmates, make your voices heard. If you don't care about inmates and choose instead to try and justify the cruelty shown towards inmates, at least find another forum to spew your lack of compassion garbage.

Have a good day!
It's almost not worth going to prison!

What you call abuses in prison are called "easy days" in the military.

This can't seriously be the hill you want to die for. His sleep was messed up and he got cold. I bet he happily goes out in the yard in the cold. And I bet that's not the only thing he's been up at 1AM, for, either - which might be why there are drug tests.

Best of luck.

Last edited by Straight; 04-09-2018 at 12:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Straight For This Useful Post:
CenTexLyn (04-09-2018), miamac (04-09-2018), Ms Sunny (04-09-2018), safran (04-09-2018)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Idaho Inmates complain of extreme violence at prison TNC IDAHO Prison & Criminal Justice Discussions 1 12-07-2008 09:54 AM
Extreme law always results in extreme injustice witchlinblue Canada - General Prison Talk, News, Introductions & Chit Chat 0 05-09-2006 11:08 AM
Honor Roll student asked to give urine sample for no reason MiaBellaAngela PTO Lounge 5 10-23-2005 01:44 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:26 PM.
Copyright © 2001- 2017 Prison Talk Online
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website Design & Custom vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media
Message Board Statistics