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Criminal Immigration Issues Dealing with INS and other related issues.

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  #1  
Old 04-29-2017, 11:01 AM
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Default Way to go, ICE! You should be so proud!

According to records

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.d298f03f7742

This is what I call "Keeping America Safe Again"

This is why farmers will have difficulty getting their crops in, why, well, there will be a lot of difficulty as families with illegals, families who do not want their legal status pulled because of a traffic stop, families of hard working people will choose to not work in the US any more.

We, Americans, will be denied their work, their taxes, their hard working children in our schools and eventually in our workplaces.

Why? because of stupid immigration policies and an overly aggressive ICE that deports people for no good reason.

What is a family supposed to do? Ah, I know, get the f*** out of the US and go someplace that appreciates them. canada for one.

And, as your food bill goes up over the next 4 years, be proud of the idiot policies and the people willing to enforce illegal procedures (we're hearing about fake warrants, Ice officers telling people they have to let them in the house or they will be deported that night, and all sorts of whacked stuff).
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:07 AM
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It is disingenuous to downplay the 'traffic stop' numbers given the claim in the article that OVER NINETY PERCENT were DWI-related. I have absolutely zero issue with deporting drunk drivers. At least that would be ONE group of defendants where there was a meaningful consequence for the conduct...
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:28 AM
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I too think of drunk driving as a serious offense & am not against deporting people that do it, but I also think DWI punishment in many states is too lax.
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:01 PM
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It is disingenuous to downplay the 'traffic stop' numbers given the claim in the article that OVER NINETY PERCENT were DWI-related. I have absolutely zero issue with deporting drunk drivers. At least that would be ONE group of defendants where there was a meaningful consequence for the conduct...
Lord knows I refuse to represent drunk drivers anymore, but I still see the first offense commonly referred to court supervision or something else that disappears without a conviction if you toe the line for a period of time. If the penalty for a first offense is a slap on the wrists for citizens, it shouldn't lead to the deportation of an entire carload of people, whether they have visas or not.
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Old 04-29-2017, 07:10 PM
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I did say I think some DWI sentences are too lax. 1 DWI is 1 too many regardless of citizenship.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:08 PM
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Latest numbers are in...

"Officials said between Jan. 22 and April 29, 2017, ICE arrested 41,318 people on civil immigration charges. That number was compared to the 30,028 people arrested between Jan. 24 and April 30, 2016 [38% increase]. ICE stated that 75 percent of those arrested in 2017 were "convicted criminals." However, the agency did not specify whether traffic convictions were included under the term "convicted criminals."

But the larger spike was among those of non-criminal status:

"ICE said non-criminal arrests increased from 4,200 in 2016 to more than 10,800 in 2017, which represents a 157 percent increase."

Read source here.
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:46 PM
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Latest numbers are in...

"Officials said between Jan. 22 and April 29, 2017, ICE arrested 41,318 people on civil immigration charges. That number was compared to the 30,028 people arrested between Jan. 24 and April 30, 2016 [38% increase]. ICE stated that 75 percent of those arrested in 2017 were "convicted criminals." However, the agency did not specify whether traffic convictions were included under the term "convicted criminals."

But the larger spike was among those of non-criminal status:

"ICE said non-criminal arrests increased from 4,200 in 2016 to more than 10,800 in 2017, which represents a 157 percent increase."

Read source here.
We're seeing changes in immigration law enforcement, drug law enforcement, to name a couple. Lawyers on the site please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the administration is in compliance with the law in much of what they are doing. If true, can anything legal really be done? Leaving just protesting?

We got complacent because the previous administration was less aggressive enforcing some laws. That was not a durable solution like actually changing those laws would have been. Homeland Security Secretary made comments to that effect in the initial article. Of course, he knows damn well right the current administration is unlikely to make changes like he's implying.

Maybe lesson learned. We will likely face more of this for duration of this administration. A new administration needs to be pressured to actually change these laws, sentencing, mandatory minimums, etc.
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:07 PM
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We're seeing changes in immigration law enforcement, drug law enforcement, to name a couple. Lawyers on the site please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the administration is in compliance with the law in much of what they are doing. If true, can anything legal really be done? Leaving just protesting?
Living in a border town it's been interesting to see play out. Local LEO has refused to participate in raids and detainment other than standard operations that may uncover an undocumented situation.

We have a heavy Border Patrol presence as it is, but we've seen an increase in nighttime raids the last month. Lights, 12-15 SUVs rolling up to a house. It's intimidating and over-the-top. If they can "take down" a known, dangerous, criminal with half the manpower, why are we busting down the doors of established, tax-paying families in the middle of the night as if they pose a substantially greater threat?

For our community, field laborers are vital. I've crossed the border at 2am next to families coming in to work as I'm coming home from a night on the town. They're harassed if they look too indigenous-- Oaxacan? Be prepared to be pulled into secondary inspection. But be sure to get out of secondary on time to catch your bus that leaves with or without you. Miss the bus, miss a days wage and travel expenses. It's heartbreaking to see what they endure just to work.

I understand that we need to increase employment opportunities in the US for citizens. I'm well aware of what the last round of recession created. But the hypocrisy of the Trump administration, family!, is astounding.
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:23 PM
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The last administration made some inroads in law enforcement on the federal level, specifically in drug related crimes. They couldn't do a whole lot - the congress was still largely controlled by the GOP, and partisan politics played a big role in how things got done, things that could have made a lasting impact - take SCOTUS for example. But, Obama and the administration took a hard look at federal crimes and opted to do a number of things that they could do to deal with some of the problems with federal crimes.

First, they took a hard look at drug crimes. Knowing that they couldn't actually change the law, Obama changed how the law was applied. They could say, "we're not going after the low level drug offender or medical pot users or the med pot industry" They couldn't change the law because congress would not go for it, but they could choose to not go after those particular crimes. As a result, look at how many states enacted med pot laws and began or have set up the infrastructure for med pot and now rec pot. No federal investigation, arrest, or prosecution means that the states can feel free to express themselves, change their laws, enact their laws, and put some real pressure on the feds to change their laws.

Other example - the DREAMERS program - people who would otherwise be deported to countries they haven't been to since infancy or childhood finally found a way into the country they called home. Now, many are living in fear of immigration policies that decriminalize their existence here. Convicted of a crime? deportation. So, if Iowa classifies speeding 5 mph over the limit as a misdemeanor, then your average 16 year old DREAMER in Iowa could get deported. Fun. (and yes, speeding in Iowa, last I checked, was a misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail. Lord knows I got plenty of those tickets in my youth).

So, yeah, obstructionist partisan politics meant a lack of actual change, and more a change in the implementation of policy. Now, with Trump and Sessions, we have a whole new ballgame. It's like being up against a prosecutor who wants the death penalty for a parking ticket - you know, the kind that won't plea bargain down more than a few days from a 40 year maximum sentence - justice is lost in the equation.

Think about it like this - those grow industries in CO and the med pot states? Yeah, those people could be looking at serious federal prison time, assuming that there's already an investigation into their "criminal activity". And Sessions is going after all of the low level users and dealers and whatnot on a federal level.

The letter of the law and the meaning of the law are two different things, and we've got an asshat in office and in Sessions that means I have job security for a good while. Partisan politics means that we will have a major showdown between state's rights and federal regulation when it comes to pot. Instead of compassion, we have deportation (and btw, compassion means deportation in some cases, just not all cases. And I do think a general amnesty should happen. I wish it happened in the Bush years, but they couldn't iron out the details)
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:45 AM
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So maybe the answer is to obey the law and use legal means to change the laws that the majority want changed. We can't all have a set of laws we like that apply to us individually.

The previous administration had the first 2 out of 8 years in a full Democratic majority, so blaming the GOP for everything he didn't do doesn't hold a lot of water.

In the age of entitlement, we seem to be steering towards the use of civil disobedience as a means of promoting our crime of choice. At some point, that's going to end badly for the participants, whether far left or far right.

The slap on the wrist for first offenses is a means of letting people know they get one free ride (and as we all know, more to follow). Then we all stand around and wonder why we never saw it coming when Johnny wipes out a family of 4 going the wrong way on a freeway on his 3rd DUI.

Poor Johnny.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:12 AM
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I will admit that I really know nothing except that basics of the immagration laws. But I do know that stopping the true criminals, the gang bangers, the cartel people and others of their ilk from being able to come in and set up business and 'house' here should be the main concern, and they should be kept out at all costs.
I've also have read that some members of PTO have men or women family /boyfriend's that are illegals. That's a tough spot to be in but I've no advice or even understanding of being romantically involved with a person that I'd have to leave my country for, or else be looking over our shoulders the rest of our lives. Therefore I'm for strict laws but only the ones that will work, and not cause more problems than what it was created to end.

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Old 05-18-2017, 10:36 AM
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So maybe the answer is to obey the law and use legal means to change the laws that the majority want changed. We can't all have a set of laws we like that apply to us individually.

The previous administration had the first 2 out of 8 years in a full Democratic majority, so blaming the GOP for everything he didn't do doesn't hold a lot of water.

In the age of entitlement, we seem to be steering towards the use of civil disobedience as a means of promoting our crime of choice. At some point, that's going to end badly for the participants, whether far left or far right.

The slap on the wrist for first offenses is a means of letting people know they get one free ride (and as we all know, more to follow). Then we all stand around and wonder why we never saw it coming when Johnny wipes out a family of 4 going the wrong way on a freeway on his 3rd DUI.

Poor Johnny.
More do not follow. Most people use being busted as a wake-up call to deal with addiction issues or at least not drive. Most people do not have a clue what .08 feels like in their body, so that first DUI is enough to get them to know more about how alcohol feels inside their body, and when they've had too much to drive.

If more always followed, there would be a lot more DUI offenders in prison. There aren't. There are a lot of people in AA meetings and therapy, but few get to the prison stage.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:34 AM
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Partisan politics means that we will have a major showdown between state's rights and federal regulation when it comes to pot
Not just pot. The 2017 / 2018 California budget will be finalized next month. Money has been budgeted specifically to fight the administration on what is already happening and expected to happen with federal enforcement of marijuana laws, ICE raids, sanctuary cities to name a few. California already hired Eric Holder to assist the state in those efforts.

Better if efforts to make changes to Federal law succeed. But we will soon see what success or lack thereof plays out in California.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:14 PM
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I will admit that I really know nothing except that basics of the immagration laws. But I do know that stopping the true criminals, the gang bangers, the cartel people and others of their ilk from being able to come in and set up business and 'house' here should be the main concern, and they should be kept out at all costs.
I don't think most logical people would disagree. But if you look at the numbers, we aren't sweeping out large swaths of undocumented criminals as you describe. They're actually in the minority of those being detained and deported. So "at all costs" is a pretty heavy hammer.

I can only speak to my own exposure, but in this case anecdotes matter. Every single gang member and drug runner I've met or had occasion to be familiar with has been a US citizen, born and raised. My husband included. The people in my town being locked up? Farm workers. Business owners. Families in upper middle class neighborhoods. I cannot keep saying that enough.

Casting a wide net isn't making us safer.
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Old 05-21-2017, 10:49 PM
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...families with illegals ....
There are illegal acts; there aren't any illegal people. The words we use matter.
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Old 06-10-2017, 12:34 PM
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If you are in the US illegally then you have broken a law
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:25 PM
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If you are in the US illegally then you have broken a law


And if all of those being swept up were in a black and white illegal entry situation then that would be a stellar argument.

Local news had a report night before last. Deportations here in my town are occurring less than 48 hours after detention and at three times the rate of this time last year. On the (only) upside they're not holding them in the shitty detention centers for long. I'm honestly sick of arguing against ignorance. I know it has to be done, because it still exists. I'd like to see all the pro-deportation people volunteer to raid a few houses and personally remove families alongside ICE. You tell a 14 year old covered by DACA that they have to choose to find friends to stay with or be "sent back" to a place you've never been because your parents are going tonight. Tell them to kiss their crying 4 year old sister and tell her it's okay-- mom and dad are in handcuffs in the living room, but they won't cuff you. You're just a kid and didn't do anything wrong.

You're fighting a straw-man and eventually the smoke will be so thick even you'll choke on it.

Last edited by miamac; 06-10-2017 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:42 AM
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miamac,

I appreciate your well thought out response. I did not say I was in support of actions by ICE or felt they were wrong. Just a simple statement of fact. I’m part of the Resist movement. In our meetings people go so far in to emotions they can't see the facts. I understand strong emotions provide the energy, but facts in the context of law is better to drive the movement.


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