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  #26  
Old 04-11-2016, 09:57 AM
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A passcode to a phone is useless as you can pick up a trac phone at Walmart for less than 40.00. Lexi can go to the library and use the computer for any communications that she does not want you to see or borrow a friends phone. You WILL not be able to control who she talks with or review messages even if she gives you the passcode. There are these things called apps which will delete or hide all selected text or browsing from the phone immediately after being sent or closed, replies are only viewable for less than a minute then deleted.

I don't believe probation is going to be an option that you will need to deal with in the near future, due to the serious nature of her indictment / charges.
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  #27  
Old 04-11-2016, 12:02 PM
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I agree that it is ultimately impossible to control an uncooperative adult (and, by the way, that she's probably going to do prison). However (once she's out, or course), it may be possible to remove the immediacy and last-moment scheduling from the picture. If she has to go out just to make a phone call and this costs her money, it may be harder to get in touch with someone to get drugs or to have sex. It's possible, but it takes some planning and if returning a message takes a day, it may not be very practical. Besides, if you get a house line, preferably of the type that cannot be removed from the wall, let her apply for jobs online or edit and print her résumé on the computer, and buy her more books than she can possibly read or access to online services such as Scribd, how can she explain the need to go to the library or somewhere else for what she can get at home?

Of course, she can leave when she's alone at home, and it may not seem reasonable to just not give her the house key. It may not even be possible if she's the official tenant. But having things at home would make it odd and open the door to questions such as what exactly she did or got there. Besides, if she wants to leave while you are available to accompany her, you can "offer" to come as well, or go look for her wherever she is supposedly going to be. You can do grocery shopping as a couple (unless you can just get everything delivered), which is nice and also removes one opportunity to get a little time and money.

But then, is living in this kind of relationship really worth the trouble?
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2016, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by chris idoc View Post
A passcode to a phone is useless as you can pick up a trac phone at Walmart for less than 40.00. Lexi can go to the library and use the computer for any communications that she does not want you to see or borrow a friends phone. You WILL not be able to control who she talks with or review messages even if she gives you the passcode. There are these things called apps which will delete or hide all selected text or browsing from the phone immediately after being sent or closed, replies are only viewable for less than a minute then deleted.

I don't believe probation is going to be an option that you will need to deal with in the near future, due to the serious nature of her indictment / charges.
As a particular reply to this post, I know Lexi's style. She hates email, and she loves her phone (which apparently has disappeared and she'll need a new one). If she was truly clever before I would never have been able to access her phone. And one of my conditions would be no apps on the phone like wickr, snapchat, etc.

She clearly will not get probation if convicted on the violent crimes, but she has hinted that it was her co-defendant who did those. All I can say about that is "we'll see."

I do want to thank everyone who has posted here. You've given me some very helpful advice. The biggest single takeaway is that Lexi has to want to deal with her addiction. She can't want to deal with it because I want her to, or go through the motions, she has to want to. Second is that I can't feel morally inveighed to restore her life. If she has to choose between remaining incarcerated or having a stinky life outside until she becomes disciplined and industrious enough to right herself financially, then she has to make that choice. I can only support her if I feel she wants to give me what I want and need in a relationship.

I guess we'll now see what happens at trial. If she's convicted on the violent crimes, it will be pretty much out of my hands. It's not like we had such a long and wonderful relationship before she descended back into addiction that I would be delighted to wait for her.
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2016, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by prisonlady View Post
I agree that it is ultimately impossible to control an uncooperative adult (and, by the way, that she's probably going to do prison). However (once she's out, or course), it may be possible to remove the immediacy and last-moment scheduling from the picture. If she has to go out just to make a phone call and this costs her money, it may be harder to get in touch with someone to get drugs or to have sex. It's possible, but it takes some planning and if returning a message takes a day, it may not be very practical. Besides, if you get a house line, preferably of the type that cannot be removed from the wall, let her apply for jobs online or edit and print her résumé on the computer, and buy her more books than she can possibly read or access to online services such as Scribd, how can she explain the need to go to the library or somewhere else for what she can get at home?

Of course, she can leave when she's alone at home, and it may not seem reasonable to just not give her the house key. It may not even be possible if she's the official tenant. But having things at home would make it odd and open the door to questions such as what exactly she did or got there. Besides, if she wants to leave while you are available to accompany her, you can "offer" to come as well, or go look for her wherever she is supposedly going to be. You can do grocery shopping as a couple (unless you can just get everything delivered), which is nice and also removes one opportunity to get a little time and money.

But then, is living in this kind of relationship really worth the trouble?
It's obviously a question of time and rebuilding trust. We had an established pattern in our relationship - she would do bad shit, and I'd find out about it. She's not very good at lying or concealing things.

I have to be willing to have a true zero-tolerance attitude. I have to be willing to not get emotionally attached until I trust her, which could take a long time.

It's really up to her. She doesn't have to do anything I ask. And I don't have to help her.

It does help that her father, who is probably the one person she completely trusts, sees about 99% eye-to-eye with me.
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  #30  
Old 04-15-2016, 07:17 AM
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Am I the only one who saw the OP's statement that Lexi's biggest concern is that she won't be able to smoke weed or drink on probation?? ...
...But OP, seriously, if this girl is already concerned about smoking weed and drinking, instead of committing to sobriety, you are setting yourself up for a heartache...
I noticed it too and this statement says a lot about what her commitment would be to living a drug free life and more so living a crime free life. If she is willing to break rules of "probation" (if she even gets that) this is not telling you much of what she will do to help herself; that is the key here, she needs to want to help herself.

If you have to talk about "leverage", then right there this is telling me that she does not have the proper mind-set to begin with. She should want to do what is right, not do it because of leverage.
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  #31  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:02 AM
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I agree that forcing someone into something with "leverage" is not a productive strategy. It may only be useful "around the edges." If she doesn't actually want to be with me, no combination of house/food/car/etc. will make her look forward to having me in her life. It might - not certainly, but might - make her feel like it's worth putting up with some conditions that only reinforce things she's already committing to.

There are a lot of "moving parts" here anyway. We live 2000 miles apart. I have been in successful long-distance relationships before, but I clearly cannot be in one with her, and I also can't really move away permanently until my father dies. (I moved back in when my mom got sick, dad is 83 and quite healthy for his age but someday he won't be. Don't know whether that "sick" part will be years with dementia or just trying to wake him up one morning and he doesn't wake up.)

I am mainly trying to build enough strength in myself to be ready to walk away if she isn't agreeable to my terms. Really my terms are not unreasonable, at least I don't think so. Nothing more than the kind of open transparent relationship my parents had, except that until she proves that when she says "I'm going to work tonight" she's really going to work tonight, and stuff like that. I'm thinking of presenting it to her (when the time comes) by saying "You've committed multiple felonies against the relationship. You have a choice, the death penalty (death of the relationship, it's over) or probation (conditions you are held to that prevent you from committing further crimes). Take your pick."
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  #32  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:40 AM
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I have to be willing to not get emotionally attached until I trust her, which could take a long time.
If you are considering setting up and supporting a second home for her, knowing she is a serious drug addict who commits crimes.. I'm sorry but the above quote is pointless. You already are emotionally attached.
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  #33  
Old 07-08-2016, 12:54 PM
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I started this thread several months ago. A lot has changed, in many different ways.

Lexi's lawyer called me and said that she has persuaded the DA to grant probation. Reading between the lines, I assume the DA is now convinced that the evidence does not support her conviction on the violent charges, only the credit card charges.

The lawyer has asked me and other people in Lexi's life to write character references. She said she needs them "within a month." A Motion To Sever Codefendants is scheduled for July 19, and by coincidence I'll be in town at that time so of course I'll go. I asked the lawyer if this would be cancelled, and she said no, but she also said that sentencing might take place at this time. This is rather confusing, because she won't have the letters by then. I'm under the impression that the DA may agree but the judge must also. I've noticed that in other cases in this court, I often see a guilty plea and then the matter referred for a pre-sentencing investigation.

There are a lot of moving parts here. All this took place in Las Vegas. Lexi has no money, no job, no one in Vegas she can live with, at least not that I would want her associating with. I'm not sure how involved in her life I want to be, and a lot depends on how committed she is to being clean.

It would be nice to get a clear statement from her lawyer about the likely scenarios, but so far that isn't forthcoming. What I'd like to know - to the extent that anyone can tell me - is:

Is it correct to assume that at some point, the serious charges will probably be dropped and she'd be eligible for bail, but the bail would be in place until final sentencing? Would she likely be allowed to leave Nevada and to return for court dates? (It's possible that part of her deal may involve testifying against her co-defendant.)

What if she has no place to go in Nevada? The lawyer said that "Intersate compact is fairly routine." But how long does that take?

How long is it likely before she would get sentenced and then officially be on probation?

Is it typical that a condition of probation is that you get a job? But what about the conundrum that you are expected to get a job, but you have a felony conviction and no one will hire you? Are the probation officers typically helpful in guiding you where to apply? Do they usually require you to give a list of where you've applied?

I haven't made any decisions about how involved I'm going to be post-release. We're ("we" meaning Lexi, her family, and me) all quite happy that she's no longer at risk of a very long sentence, but she still has to rebuild her life. I'm trying to figure out the "glide path" by which she goes from jail to being outside and getting her life moving again.
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  #34  
Old 07-09-2016, 08:29 AM
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Much will depend on her probation restrictions, which she won't know until she receives them. Whatever they turn out to be, following them all religiously is the best way to avoid a probation violation and a prison sentence. Most "job" requirements can be met through documented job searches, applications; interviews, etc., but the PO will decide that too. Discussing any issues with her PO as they arise is also a good idea.

Here's a thread about sample letters to the parole board.
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=658065

Also be sure that the letters are reviewed by her lawyer before they go to the judge.
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  #35  
Old 09-02-2016, 04:18 PM
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Default Probation vs Parole

I wanted to revive this thread with a slight twist. If the moderators deem it should be a new thread, that's fine.

In Nevada (where my ex will be sentenced next week) there is a standard set of probation conditions, plus the judge often imposes additional case-specific conditions. The general conditions always include a catch-all "Do whatever your probation officer says." Specific conditions might include restitution, get your GED, no contact with the victim or co-defendants.

Let's say that an offender gets a sentence of 19-48 months, suspended, probation for an indefinite period not to exceed 3 years. Now:

Let's say the person commits a minor probation violation, whatever the smallest thing is to get the particular probation officer to issue them a violation. What happens? (Please be as detailed and as comprehensive as possible.) What happens if it's the biggest violation possible?

Do the same people serve as probation and parole officers?

If you are sentenced to prison, probation is no longer possible right? When you leave prison, if you haven't maxed out your time, you're on parole?

How do parole conditions differ from probation? Does the judge in any way control parole conditions? Would a parole officer examine the circumstances and possibly impose some of the same conditions that a judge might impose for probation?

And as before, what happens if you violate parole in a little way, and in a big way?
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by redtop43 View Post
I wanted to revive this thread with a slight twist. If the moderators deem it should be a new thread, that's fine.

In Nevada (where my ex will be sentenced next week) there is a standard set of probation conditions, plus the judge often imposes additional case-specific conditions. The general conditions always include a catch-all "Do whatever your probation officer says." Specific conditions might include restitution, get your GED, no contact with the victim or co-defendants.

Let's say that an offender gets a sentence of 19-48 months, suspended, probation for an indefinite period not to exceed 3 years. Now:

Let's say the person commits a minor probation violation, whatever the smallest thing is to get the particular probation officer to issue them a violation. What happens? (Please be as detailed and as comprehensive as possible.) What happens if it's the biggest violation possible?

Do the same people serve as probation and parole officers?

If you are sentenced to prison, probation is no longer possible right? When you leave prison, if you haven't maxed out your time, you're on parole?

How do parole conditions differ from probation? Does the judge in any way control parole conditions? Would a parole officer examine the circumstances and possibly impose some of the same conditions that a judge might impose for probation?

And as before, what happens if you violate parole in a little way, and in a big way?
Long story short...there is no one-size-fits-all answer. And there are SOME who are on both parole AND probation. It happens. More frequently in some locales than in others.

Parole conditions are rarely subject to judicial intervention except and unless there is a habeas action. The judge is generally done with a case than has pen time once the gavel bangs down. Supervision is left to the agency and/or Board responsible for the release decisions...
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:02 AM
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If I understand it right, if you are violated by your probation officer or parole agent, you could go back to jail/prison for whatever the term the judge stated at sentencing.

Another scenario could be that a minor violation could include a 10 day hold in county jail. (so if a violation occurred that might be the min amount of time held.....this will likely vary from state to state tho) and then back on parole/probation.
Best thing is to do each thing your agent tells you that you need to do, and dont do anything they tell you not to do.

I dont know if the same people serve as probation officers, and parole officers. I think they are different agencies (they probably work closely with one another tho)

In my state (CA) if you were violated and sent to prison, you would do a portion of the sentence (somewhere between 50% and 85% depending) and then parole. Parole is mandatory even if you complete your entire sentence
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  #38  
Old 09-03-2016, 09:05 AM
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If I understand it right, if you are violated by your probation officer or parole agent, you could go back to jail/prison for whatever the term the judge stated at sentencing.
If a supervising agency alleges a violation of the terms or conditions of the supervision, then the person on supervision is entitled to a hearing. A PO lacks the ability to just arbitrarily tell someone that they have been revoked. They DO NOT have that manner of power, no matter what bull they try to sell to those on supervision.

At a hearing, the agency still has the obligation to prove up the allegations being advanced. I have had MANY cases here in Texas where the Parole Division sought to have someone revoked by the Board of Pardons and Paroles yet could not offer up evidence that meets minimal standards in a manner that allows for a violation of the conditions to be sustained. I even came close in one instance to getting an actual conviction to State Jail tossed at a hearing that was being conducted IN the State Jail where they were being held...the reason? Simple...the Parole Division had failed to obtain certified copies of the sentence and judgment for the hearing. The Hearing Officer held the ruling in abeyance and, although they ultimately overruled the objection, they recommended that the client be continued on supervision.

PO's tend to hate the fact that allegations have to be proven up and that a person on supervision has a right to cross-examination of witnesses against them and the right to subpoena any person involved in the case.

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Best thing is to do each thing your agent tells you that you need to do, and dont do anything they tell you not to do.
Concur with this...and it is a simple thing that ANY person on supervision should indelibly etch into their mind.

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I dont know if the same people serve as probation officers, and parole officers. I think they are different agencies (they probably work closely with one another tho)
All depends on the State...some carry both caseloads since they have few on parole and others are distinctly different operations. But...even in those cases, they do not always work and play well with one another...probation in some places has turnover rates even higher than parole entities suffer...
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  #39  
Old 09-03-2016, 01:47 PM
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Let me try to be more specific.

Say you get 19-to-48 months, and you are paroled after 19 months.

1) As part of being paroled, do you have to present the parole board with a release plan? Where you're going to live, how you're going to support yourself?
2) Once the board votes for release, is it true that release isn't immediate, but could be a matter of days or weeks until your release plan is activated, if that requires time to put things in place?
3) Say you commit a violation. You are entitled to a due process hearing right, but it is before the parole board? Assume it doesn't involve a new criminal charge. Does the board send you back to prison for a fixed amount of time? Or do they revoke your parole and you have to serve the rest of your sentence until you are eligible for a new parole review?
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:36 PM
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There is no absolute answer to your question. For example, here in Texas, one can have a violation sustained but NOT be revoked...in which case the Board might continue someone on supervision, might transfer them to an ISF for anywhere between 45 and 120 days, send them to a SAFP or revoke them and return them to prison.

If returned to prison, then might actually be mathematically eligible for parole as soon as they were revoked or it could be some time down the road. They might be approved but more likely is a denial, with a set off of between one and ten years depending on the offense(s) of record.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:06 AM
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I dont know how it works as far as giving the parole board your *plans*
(where to live, etc.....) But thinking yes you would need to provide this information

I'd also guess there would be some amount of time if parole is granted that you would *wait* until release. You know how it works, there is real time, and prison time.

Also wanted to add.....to my other post.
Do what you are told to do, dont do anything you're not supposed to do, and if you are not sure if you can or cant? Dont do it. Ask first.
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