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  #26  
Old 12-16-2015, 09:22 PM
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Clearly the Courts also agree with this premise given that nobody seems to have filed anything on Silverstein's behalf that has led to a change in housing being ordered...
I can't help but notice that you ignored the questions that I asked above. Why are you afraid?

Put down the pipe an embrace reality. Numerous organizations, over the years, have filed many friend-of-the-court briefs in support of Tommy Silverstein's lawsuits (See pacer.gov). That said, one does not need the blessing of some right-wing American judge before concluding that the treatment that Thomas Silverstein has received is cruel and unusual. What is wrong with you? Why are you so mean? Were you hurt as a child? Is that why you lack compassion?

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Old 12-16-2015, 09:55 PM
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Put down the pipe an embrace reality. Numerous organizations, over the years, have filed many friend-of-the-court briefs in support of Tommy Silverstein's lawsuits (See pacer.gov). That said, one does not need the blessing of some right-wing American judge before concluding that the treatment that Thomas Silverstein has received is cruel and unusual. What is wrong with you? Why are you so mean? Were you hurt as a child? Is that why you lack compassion?
The existence of an amicus filing, again, is NOT evidence of a Constitutional violation. And my guess is that you would find that many of the judges who have ruled at different times in his cases were NOT "right wing" but rather were appointed by a more liberal office-holder...but guess what- even liberals have a low tolerance for persons who commit multiple murders AFTER they were already removed from a polite society for their failure to comport themselves with the laws that govern the masses.

Why you do you feel the need to insult posters who do not agree with your world view?

You forget also that in order for something to be a violation of the 8th Amendment, it must be be BOTH cruel AND unusual. And while the manner in which he is housed is unusual, it is NOT cruel (as evidenced by the reality that humans can indeed function without having contact with other humans, with some [as noted elsewhere in this thread] willingly removing themselves from the grid). In this case, Silverstein should reasonably have known consequences would attach to his decision to kill other people in the correctional environment. He made his choice, so now he gets to live with the consequence OF those choices.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:15 PM
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Why you do you feel the need to insult posters who do not agree with your world view?
Is pointing out that your opinions are absurd an "insult"? Are you really that thin-skinned? What is wrong with you? Were you hurt as a child? Is that why you are so mean? Did you not spend any time at a university? Are you threatened by someone who disagrees with your opinions? Does disagreement with your opinions constitute an "insult" in your mind?

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Old 12-16-2015, 10:58 PM
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Is pointing out that your opinions are absurd an "insult"? Are you really that thin-skinned? What is wrong with you? Were you hurt as a child? Is that why you are so mean? Did you not spend any time at a university? Are you threatened by someone who disagrees with your opinions? Does disagreement with your opinions constitute an "insult" in your mind?
What you have done is not a simple disagreement with the comments of others in this forum. You instead elected to cast aspersions about what may or may not have occurred in the upbringing of posters. Pointing out your poor attempt at an ad hominem attack is NOT being thin-skinned but rather points out the errors in your approach.

You have repeatedly failed to note that, your protestations not withstanding, the treatment of Silverstein passes Constitutional muster. And if it passes Constitutional muster, then it is, by definition, not a violation of any enumerated rights nor is it torture.
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  #30  
Old 12-16-2015, 11:00 PM
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You forget also that in order for something to be a violation of the 8th Amendment, it must be be BOTH cruel AND unusual. And while the manner in which he is housed is unusual, it is NOT cruel (as evidenced by the reality that humans can indeed function without having contact with other humans, with some [as noted elsewhere in this thread] willingly removing themselves from the grid).
Are you insane? Forcing another human being to spend DECADES in isolation is cruel and usual. What is wrong with you? Tommy Silverstein wants to be in an outdoor cage for 60 minutes a week. He wants to have the opportunity to speak with another (high-risk) prisoner that he can see and speak with but who he can not, due to security concerns, actually touch. Is that too much to ask?

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Old 12-16-2015, 11:27 PM
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What you have done is not a simple disagreement with the comments of others in this forum. You instead elected to cast aspersions about what may or may not have occurred in the upbringing of posters. Pointing out your poor attempt at an ad hominem attack is NOT being thin-skinned but rather points out the errors in your approach.

You have repeatedly failed to note that, your protestations not withstanding, the treatment of Silverstein passes Constitutional muster. And if it passes Constitutional muster, then it is, by definition, not a violation of any enumerated rights nor is it torture.
Notwithstanding is a single word and not two words. Where did you go to school?

Pointing out that you do not think particularly well is not an ad hominem "attack."

Are you really suggesting that the treatment that Tommy Silverstein has endured at the hands of the US government is something other than cruel and usual simply because a federal judge has not yet ruled as such? What kind of sick and demented moral compass do you possess that would you lead to you to conclude that forcing a man to spend 30+ years on "no human contact" is somehow constitutionally permissible simply because a Federal judge has not yet found this practice to be constitutionally intolerable?

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  #32  
Old 12-17-2015, 12:41 AM
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The question remains...what exactly do you propose to do with those that are simply anti-social and don't give a damn. No amount of 'therapy and rehabilitation' is going to help them. They are a legitimate threat to the loved ones of others, no matter whether that loved one is a felon or an employee.

Further, classes and trades are not a be-all, end-all in ANY sense of the expectation...they don't reduce in-prison violence and it does not overcome the hurdles of FINDING employment post-release.

If you want an idea of what happens when you throw open the doors in the hopes that ALL of the population will get in circles and sing kumbayah, then just look at Texas in the early 80's when the federal courts mandated an end to building tenders. If you don't have the ability to house violent offenders away from the general population, you are just inviting problems for everyone...

If you do not have an alternate proposal, then you are no different than the wingnuts clamoring on campuses for a free education for everyone but offer no plans on how to pay for it.
yes, but not every offender in solitary is there for a violent offense. Many of the inmates in solitary are there for non-violent offenses. OR are there because they are purposely being abused by guards, which was the case for my husband. He did 105 days in Maximum, no books, no radio, no snacks, no window, no photos, no periodicals, he wasn't even allowed to see another person unless they opened the little 6 inch window at his cell, no outdoor time at all for 90 days, no calls, no visits, he wasnt allowed to exercise, he wasnt allowed to speak unless spoken to. And I had to mail him paper, envelopes, and stamps so he could write me because he was only allowed to purchase minimal correspondence materials monthly and would run out after a week if I didn't mail it to him. He was on maximum pending an investigation into the officers that put him there, I was told he was going to be there a minimum of 2 years if the investigation lasted that long. THAT IS NOT RIGHT. He was attacked by four officers and they put HIM in solitary. There needs to be a better system. My husband has never committed a violent crime.
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  #33  
Old 12-17-2015, 05:54 AM
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yes, but not every offender in solitary is there for a violent offense. Many of the inmates in solitary are there for non-violent offenses. OR are there because they are purposely being abused by guards, which was the case for my husband....He was attacked by four officers and they put HIM in solitary. There needs to be a better system. My husband has never committed a violent crime.
Thanks for writing these words. I just prayed for you and your husband.
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  #34  
Old 12-17-2015, 08:40 AM
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I feel a need to post on this thread from my prospective. My hub is serving 20 years. He went in in ad seg, he worked his ass off to get out. He deserves to be safe. If have Silverstein and others like him isolated keeps my hub safe.....onward and forward.
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Old 12-17-2015, 08:57 AM
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OnlyInTexas,

That's my take on it too. Protecting many, even if it means long term isolation of a few, is what must be done.

The person I knew that did 13 years in ADX freely admitted - in fact he boasted - he'd kill again and again. And I'm not talking to protect himself! He killed out of hated of those that didn't think like he did. He had no interest in changing, no interest in playing fair.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:44 AM
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Protecting many, even if it means long term isolation of a few, is what must be done.
It is entirely possible to protect prisoners and staff from a dangerous prisoner without resorting to the torture that involves "long term isolation."

Long-term isolation is torture. Torture is always intolerable.
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:00 AM
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The person I knew that did 13 years in ADX ...
I just prayed for this man.
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  #38  
Old 12-17-2015, 01:32 PM
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... The person I knew that did 13 years in ADX freely admitted - in fact he boasted - he'd kill again and again.....
Stop lying. Name this killer.
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  #39  
Old 12-17-2015, 04:38 PM
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Let's keep it clean and stick to the topic without bashing one another. Please remember the purpose of the PTO Community:


PTO Community Purpose
The purpose of the Prison Talk Online community is Prisoner & Family Support, Information and Assistance.
While we encourage interest from people with a range of viewpoints seeking to learn more, anything beyond a genuine, friendly dialog is not welcome.

People who are (or were) involved with the Prison System find that they encounter a wide range of difficulties and challenges.
PTO was founded as a forum to help family members cope with these experiences; through the provision of non-judgmental support and the sharing of information.

PTO is not the place to debate whether or not anyone should be in prison, should prisoners and their families have rights or what kind of punishments should be meted out to the guilty.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:40 AM
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I'm going to suggest that we do what I suggested before this last post regarding PTO's purpose. Either stick to the topic without bashing one another included telling members to ignore other members or step aside and don't comment at all.
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  #41  
Old 12-18-2015, 11:59 AM
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We all know the system isn't fair. The 105 days my husband did in Max was more than he deserved. He's still in solitary, but at least now he has a window and he gets to go outside three days a week by himself. He praises God for this time. He's been in solitary almost six months now and will stay there until they finish investigating the officers that attacked him. My complaint with the system is the Disciplinary Hearings, which take an officer's word as fact and they discipline an inmate, sometimes harshly, even when they are innocent of the complaint. They take away gain time, two years in our case, they take away visits and phones. Our only hope now is that the Feds are involved. Once they indict the three officers that beat the crap out of him, then they will be able to clear my husband's name. It's in God's hands.

Every story is different. Yes there are plenty in solitary/Max that are there for the protection of others, but some are there for protection of themselves, and some are there because they were wrongly accused. A large majority of these inmates are heavily medicated to deal with the depression and anxiety. The warden himself told me that solitary is very taxing on someone mentally. It seems to me that the prison system could give these inmates books or local television to occupy their minds. Or still allow them no contact visits.

When I worked for the attorney general I worked on a case where an 18 year old went to prison for five years for grand theft auto. He was placed in a closed cell with a rapist who raped him over and over again. He made numerous trips to medical and was treated for rape, but they sent him back to his rapist for two months until he tried to kill himself. He then went into solitary for his own protection and was released into general population a few months later. Then after a visit with his mother one weekend, his very first visit while incarcerated, he was strip searched and he had a flash back of being raped and he hit and tried to bite the guard. He received an extra five years mandatory, those remaining nine years to be in maximum solitary. The system failed him. He came from a middle class family, he graduated high school, and he stole a car two months after his 18th birthday. He wanted the guy's speakers and couldn't get them out so he had a friend show him how to steal a car. Now he is ruined. He will do a minimum of 8 years in maximum solitary, no visits, no phone calls, and heavily medicated. The system could've taught him a lesson and he could've gone on to be a very productive citizen in society, but by the time he is released he will go from solitary to home, no re-entry program.
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  #42  
Old 12-19-2015, 06:12 AM
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We all know the system isn't fair. The 105 days my husband did in Max was more than he deserved. He's still in solitary, but at least now he has a window and he gets to go outside three days a week by himself. He praises God for this time. He's been in solitary almost six months now and will stay there until they finish investigating the officers that attacked him. My complaint with the system is the Disciplinary Hearings, which take an officer's word as fact and they discipline an inmate, sometimes harshly, even when they are innocent of the complaint. They take away gain time, two years in our case, they take away visits and phones. Our only hope now is that the Feds are involved. Once they indict the three officers that beat the crap out of him, then they will be able to clear my husband's name. It's in God's hands.

Every story is different. Yes there are plenty in solitary/Max that are there for the protection of others, but some are there for protection of themselves, and some are there because they were wrongly accused. A large majority of these inmates are heavily medicated to deal with the depression and anxiety. The warden himself told me that solitary is very taxing on someone mentally. It seems to me that the prison system could give these inmates books or local television to occupy their minds. Or still allow them no contact visits.

When I worked for the attorney general I worked on a case where an 18 year old went to prison for five years for grand theft auto. He was placed in a closed cell with a rapist who raped him over and over again. He made numerous trips to medical and was treated for rape, but they sent him back to his rapist for two months until he tried to kill himself. He then went into solitary for his own protection and was released into general population a few months later. Then after a visit with his mother one weekend, his very first visit while incarcerated, he was strip searched and he had a flash back of being raped and he hit and tried to bite the guard. He received an extra five years mandatory, those remaining nine years to be in maximum solitary. The system failed him. He came from a middle class family, he graduated high school, and he stole a car two months after his 18th birthday. He wanted the guy's speakers and couldn't get them out so he had a friend show him how to steal a car. Now he is ruined. He will do a minimum of 8 years in maximum solitary, no visits, no phone calls, and heavily medicated. The system could've taught him a lesson and he could've gone on to be a very productive citizen in society, but by the time he is released he will go from solitary to home, no re-entry program.

My loved one will be getting out soon, after 6 years of solitary for "unauthorized use of a vehicle".
I truly pray he isn't ruined by those years of isolation.
The lack of concern shown towards those incarcerated is appalling at times and it seems sometimes their humanity gets lost on others.
I truly pray this young man finds someone who can reach out to him through the years incarcerated and be a light in an otherwise dark place.
I get so angry at times
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Old 12-19-2015, 11:00 AM
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Speaking of solitary. I received two letters and five cards from my husband yesterday. The solitude is getting to him. These letters made me cry so hard last night. Undeserved solitude really gets a man down, a man can only take so much.
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:20 AM
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Speaking of solitary. I received two letters and five cards from my husband yesterday. The solitude is getting to him. These letters made me cry so hard last night. Undeserved solitude really gets a man down, a man can only take so much.
P.M. me if you need to vent. We are almost at the end of a six year SHU stent but the Holidays are hard on anyone with a loved one in prison and SHU sucks.
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:17 PM
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Wow. This is a contentious subject. reading through this thread I admit to getting very pissed a few times. I took some time and found that I do appreciate the different views on the topic. I had not considered the complexity of the issue. It seems to me that the thread was started by a few people who felt that solitary confinement was overused and abused by correctional facilities. I commend those people and hope they continue to search for ways to help fix this issue because overused and abused it is. I understand that there is a time and place for solitary confinement, whether it is used in the short time as a "timeout" or for temporary safety issues, or whether it is the longtime confinement of a man (or woman) who poses a real threat to the population around them. However, in my experience (with my fiance) solitary confinement has been used to punish the "other" and to break the spirit (stated outright to him by the director of the facility during his three years solitary confinement awaiting trial). The ability to confine another to solitary confinement is power, and those wielding that power are humans and are therefore subject to failings of humans. I would like to see more transparent regulations regarding the use of solitary confinement.

In regards to convicts such as Tommy Silverstein; I feel it is important to ensure we as a public do not become the criminals we condemn. He apparently sees no value in human life, does that mean we should not? He took lives seemingly without remorse or reflection, should we therefore do the same? How does this solve or fix anything? When does the punishment become sufficient? He is on suicide watch as well, so for those who state his victims are dead and he is alive, do we truly not even have the decency to allow him to die? And if we determine that he must live, because.. why? Whats the point of his life at his point besides to punish him, but if we determine he must live to carry out his punishment, what truly, is the harm in allowing him to go outside? Are we that ill as a society that we enjoy emulating the criminals we condemn. Pain passed on to another does not heal. The circumstances Tommy Silverstien and others like him are condemned to live in holds a mirror up to our society as a whole. Have we truly embraced the values of these men? It appears we might have.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:51 PM
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In regards to convicts such as Tommy Silverstein; I feel it is important to ensure we as a public do not become the criminals we condemn. He apparently sees no value in human life, does that mean we should not? He took lives seemingly without remorse or reflection, should we therefore do the same? How does this solve or fix anything? When does the punishment become sufficient? He is on suicide watch as well, so for those who state his victims are dead and he is alive, do we truly not even have the decency to allow him to die? And if we determine that he must live, because.. why? Whats the point of his life at his point besides to punish him, but if we determine he must live to carry out his punishment, what truly, is the harm in allowing him to go outside? Are we that ill as a society that we enjoy emulating the criminals we condemn. Pain passed on to another does not heal. The circumstances Tommy Silverstien and others like him are condemned to live in holds a mirror up to our society as a whole. Have we truly embraced the values of these men? It appears we might have.
Silverstien and others condemn themselves to solitary. If he wants art supplies, and he does have some talent as an artist, then he needs to work to earn them so that the staff knows he intends to use those art supplies for art, and not to harm others. If he wants to get into the general population, he needs to work to get there. He earned his place. He needs to earn his way back.

He may be 63, but assuming that a 63 year old human being is harmless or incapable of harming or killing others or plotting and conspiring to harm or kill others is absurd. Hell, my 97 year old grandmother was dangerous up to the day she died. He's 63 - he barely qualifies for social security in the real world. He's hardly old, feeble, infirm, and incapable. Old age is not a persuasive argument.

The SHU system is overused in this country, sure. It is abused by some living in systems that allow for or condone that abuse. Such corruption is a completely different issue than that of keeping the general population safe from known threats. Most SHU systems have methods and procedures for stepping down and out of the SHU system. It is incumbent on the inmate to partake of those methods and procedures. Most inmates never see SHU. Those that do, and do so for violent reasons, have largely earned their way there, and must earn their way out.

There are purely economical reasons for DOCs to employ other methods of punishment outside of SHU. Housing a person in SHU as opposed to the general population is wildly more expensive. Yet some inmates are such a danger to the population, including staff, that they cannot be held elsewhere.

Again, I'm not condoning the use of SHU systems for non-violent reasons, or for corruption. I am condoning SHU systems for those violent offenders who are, and by virtue of the unwillingness to work their way out of SHU, stuck there for years and decades. Nobody wants their loved one dead in prison. Removing the most violent inmates from SHU into the general population makes the gp less safe than it already is. Further, staff has a right to a safe working environment as well. Letting these people out of SHU without a deliberate and systematic showing that they can handle the gp without resorting to violence is silly.

Yes, there are people in SHU who don't deserve to be there. But let's address SHU for what it is - a place to put the unrepentant violent people who have shown that they cannot or will not adhere to the rules and regulations of a less punitive unit. And again, violent people work their way into SHU, and they can work their way out should they choose to.
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Old 12-23-2015, 12:26 PM
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This site is confusing to me at times, because so many of us on here believe in rehabilitation and actual "correction" through programming, reasonable sentences, and humane conditions. We often complain about rules of confinement, courts and sentencing, wishing they had been fairer to the people we love. Yet, I occasionally read statements like a few have written above, to the effect that the prisoner made a choice and now must live with the consequences--no matter how brutal or inhumane they appear to be.

I'm also sure none of us want our loved ones housed with dangerous persons who may easily kill them. However, in California SHUs, for many years, inmates were placed there for vague indicators of suspected gang affiliation, rather than actual behavior inside. In fact, the rules of SHU placement were amended September 1, 2015 after litigation initially begun by Pelican Bay prisoners themselves, ending the cruel provisions of indeterminate solitary confinement and reducing the number of prisoners confined therein (Ashker v. Governor of California), I hope those of you who make simplistic sentences about crime and punishment will read the link below, summarizing the case and changes that have been or are to be made. The SHU conditions were indeed cruel and inhuman and it is true that people could be placed in there simply by snitching on someone else. For all I know, this may still be the case, but at least some significant improvements have been made. Here is a link:

https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default...nt-summary.pdf The first two paragraphs are quite significant, given the arguments here about cruel and inhuman punishments and arbitrary placement in the SHU.

How do we reconcile the tension between the so-called rehabilitation aspect of incarceration with the punishment aspect? The same arguments that some have advanced here to the effect that the person shouldn't have committed the crime if they did not want to live with the consequences could be applied to most of our loved ones. Most of them are inside because they committed a crime, including violent crimes, against society. Does that mean we just condemn them out of hand, place them in dungeons because after all, they made a choice--rather than try to give opportunities for them to actually change behavior? I'm sure we all want our loved ones to have that opportunity, as long as they do not represent a threat to themselves or to the general population. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of prisoners do not need to be in extended isolation, but unfortunately, some do. But even for those who are not safe to include in the General Population, we do not need to exert barbaric behavior in the way we treat them.

I would also argue we cannot have it both ways--on one hand wanting prisoners, our loved ones, to be treated humanely while they are inside, wanting a change in the punitive institutional mentality of our correctional systems, yet sanctioning brutal conditions of confinement for those whom we think deserve it. I agree 100% with PuppyJack, who said: "Running a secure & safe prison and running a prison that treats prisoners humanely are NOT mutually exclusive propositions. It is possible to protect staff and prisoners alike from dangerous prisoners without resorting to torture."

Last edited by marie8899; 12-23-2015 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:06 PM
maxxmom maxxmom is offline
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Originally Posted by Abi View Post
Wow. This is a contentious subject. reading through this thread I admit to getting very pissed a few times. I took some time and found that I do appreciate the different views on the topic. I had not considered the complexity of the issue. It seems to me that the thread was started by a few people who felt that solitary confinement was overused and abused by correctional facilities. I commend those people and hope they continue to search for ways to help fix this issue because overused and abused it is. I understand that there is a time and place for solitary confinement, whether it is used in the short time as a "timeout" or for temporary safety issues, or whether it is the longtime confinement of a man (or woman) who poses a real threat to the population around them. However, in my experience (with my fiance) solitary confinement has been used to punish the "other" and to break the spirit (stated outright to him by the director of the facility during his three years solitary confinement awaiting trial). The ability to confine another to solitary confinement is power, and those wielding that power are humans and are therefore subject to failings of humans. I would like to see more transparent regulations regarding the use of solitary confinement.

In regards to convicts such as Tommy Silverstein; I feel it is important to ensure we as a public do not become the criminals we condemn. He apparently sees no value in human life, does that mean we should not? He took lives seemingly without remorse or reflection, should we therefore do the same? How does this solve or fix anything? When does the punishment become sufficient? He is on suicide watch as well, so for those who state his victims are dead and he is alive, do we truly not even have the decency to allow him to die? And if we determine that he must live, because.. why? Whats the point of his life at his point besides to punish him, but if we determine he must live to carry out his punishment, what truly, is the harm in allowing him to go outside? Are we that ill as a society that we enjoy emulating the criminals we condemn. Pain passed on to another does not heal. The circumstances Tommy Silverstien and others like him are condemned to live in holds a mirror up to our society as a whole. Have we truly embraced the values of these men? It appears we might have.
I just felt compelled to say something here on this issue.... I dont think anyone here is arguing for this man or anyone like him to be let out of SHU , I think that the conditions need to be addressed ......Fresh air once a week or a chaplain or such visit weekly is not jeopardizing anyone elses safety. Honestly thats not alot.... Am I missing something here?
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Old 12-29-2015, 02:07 AM
marie8899 marie8899 is offline
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So sorry about the unfair treatment your husband has gone through. Glad he's in a better situation now and I hope he will soon be able to get back to g.p. He's lucky to have you supporting him. I hope justice will prevail.



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Originally Posted by jencrys View Post
We all know the system isn't fair. The 105 days my husband did in Max was more than he deserved. He's still in solitary, but at least now he has a window and he gets to go outside three days a week by himself. He praises God for this time. He's been in solitary almost six months now and will stay there until they finish investigating the officers that attacked him. My complaint with the system is the Disciplinary Hearings, which take an officer's word as fact and they discipline an inmate, sometimes harshly, even when they are innocent of the complaint. They take away gain time, two years in our case, they take away visits and phones. Our only hope now is that the Feds are involved. Once they indict the three officers that beat the crap out of him, then they will be able to clear my husband's name. It's in God's hands.

Every story is different. Yes there are plenty in solitary/Max that are there for the protection of others, but some are there for protection of themselves, and some are there because they were wrongly accused. A large majority of these inmates are heavily medicated to deal with the depression and anxiety. The warden himself told me that solitary is very taxing on someone mentally. It seems to me that the prison system could give these inmates books or local television to occupy their minds. Or still allow them no contact visits.

When I worked for the attorney general I worked on a case where an 18 year old went to prison for five years for grand theft auto. He was placed in a closed cell with a rapist who raped him over and over again. He made numerous trips to medical and was treated for rape, but they sent him back to his rapist for two months until he tried to kill himself. He then went into solitary for his own protection and was released into general population a few months later. Then after a visit with his mother one weekend, his very first visit while incarcerated, he was strip searched and he had a flash back of being raped and he hit and tried to bite the guard. He received an extra five years mandatory, those remaining nine years to be in maximum solitary. The system failed him. He came from a middle class family, he graduated high school, and he stole a car two months after his 18th birthday. He wanted the guy's speakers and couldn't get them out so he had a friend show him how to steal a car. Now he is ruined. He will do a minimum of 8 years in maximum solitary, no visits, no phone calls, and heavily medicated. The system could've taught him a lesson and he could've gone on to be a very productive citizen in society, but by the time he is released he will go from solitary to home, no re-entry program.
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Old 01-03-2016, 10:47 PM
jencrys jencrys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedupont View Post
If you really are a lawyer I would like to check your loss vs win record with court system access I have through lawyers I do things with but from your writing I doubt you are. you can send your name to me (or BBO number) and
post your BBO number on this thread and I vehemently object to your incorrect statements (which a criminal lawyer would know were false) in your postings, and not just your claim that Tommy is the only AB who does decades in SHU, and as a matter of fact I did more than fifteen years in DSU and DDU (Massachusetts Walpole prison terms for 23 hour lockups) the last year gassed every week before a move team searched my legal papers as everyone who has been at the hill knows. Bottom line I only with I could have helped Tommy on one of his cases when he was at Marion but the state didn't ship me to the feds until after his appeals were over so perhaps he would have been one of the two dozen murderers and other serious (non-sex-offender)
criminals I helped win their releases, as I continue to do now for the ten years authorities have been unable to put me back in prison. (email removed, per policy. please use pm system)
FYI for those unaware, BBO is Massachusetts Bar number (since this is a nationwide forum, some may be unfamiliar).

You're helping inmates write appeals or you're working with attorneys?
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