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  #1  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:50 AM
notanylonger2018 notanylonger2018 is offline
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Default I'm so torn-Stay or leave him?

My husband is in custody awaiting trial. I have 2 kids from a previous relationship and am pregnant with out first baby together.

There's been 3 times where he has hit me. In July 2017 he was really really drunk and wouldn't let me leave the house. He kept grabbing me and because I was also drunk I punched him in the face. After that he lost it and hit me 3-4 times in the arm leaving a gnarly bruise.

He apologized, hasn't been drinking since and we started counseling and things went really well after that. That was the worst instance.

Neither of us stayed commited to counseling which is not entirely my fault but I started missing sessions first.

Fast forward 6 months and early Jan 2018 he had lost his job right after Christmas, and is really depressed. We were bickering about something stupid and whatever comment I made really pissed him off as he raised his fist at me, then I started to walk away and he landed 3 half hearted blows to my shoulder. Didnt hurt or leave a mark but I still called and they arrested him. No contact order was issued and he was released PR.


Lots of lip service later about how hes so sorry and loves me and blah blah blah and I agreed to let him come home, on the terms that counseling was started again and he would leave if I asked him. Big mistake on my part, I know.

6 weeks later and we started arguing again, and he pinned me on the floor and yelled at me. I asked him to leave and he said he couldn't as we were down to one car and "he didn't have anywhere to go". I told him I thought we should seperate because we both have issues that need to be worked out, and time apart was necessary. He started panicking and he pushed me and then didn't want me to leave because he knew he messed up, but let me leave under the guise that I was going to my moms and would be back. I left and called the police and they arrested him on a felony no contact violation because he had put his hands on me.

Now I guess he is going to anger management offered in the jail, is facing up to 5 years, and everyone says they are really seeing changes in him. I'm so torn between the fact that I love him and I'm pregnant and I believe all things can be overcome. I don't want to divorce him but don't feel like I have a choice. I would rather see him serve Time, spend the first year out in counseling both separately and together and see where it goes.

I
Part of me says run and dont ever look back, but this is the second abusive relationship I have been in and it's so different. I know he has a lot of trauma, abandonment issues, and his father beat the crap out of his mom. The last relationship where the guy hit me he never owned up to it, always said I deserved it and never apologized. My husband now seems like he is genuinely apologetic and wants to make behavior and lifestyle changes but I wonder for how long.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:58 AM
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No need to be torn....he's dangerous to you and to all the kids. Work on your own issues, like learning why you keep choosing broken men, and how NOT to hit, and how to fight fair (you can look it up). And get every kid into counseling - your local domestic violence agency can do that for you.

All things cannot be overcome. I know that's not the happy news you want, but those who grew up in abusive relationships usually have certain brain development issues that don't get fixed in later life - if the receptors for dopamine/serotonin aren't made early, that's it, no second chances.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:07 AM
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I feel like I know that I need to leave, but it really sucks. Everyone in my life is encouraging me to stay "God is working on him" "He does a lot of thinking in jail" "You can go to counseling" and I feel an immense amount of pressure from my family and friends and society- a divorced woman with 3 kids with different dads!!! Even my counselor now doesn't necessarily advocate for divorce. And it hurts because he was supposed to be, well, not this.

This is not how I imagined my life.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mackadoodle View Post
This is not how I imagined my life.
You have the power to change your life. It is never too late. What others are saying doesn't really matter in the end because this is your life, and as a mother you also need to think of your children's best interest. Abuse rarely disappears once it has started.

Wishing you the best of luck - you are stronger than you think!
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:23 AM
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A quick PS - anger management classes have exactly zero good effect. That's been statistically measured. The states just keep requiring the programs to look like they're doing something.

And look up the effects of domestic violence on children ----- you won't like what you read at all. None of it is good - lower high school graduation rates, lower pay scale, lower intellectual development, greater likelihood of becoming either an abuser or a victim of one, higher premarital pregnancy rates, earlier (even down-age, like 11 and 12) sexual activity, and the list goes on. That's what you're offering your kids if you allow him to come back to you.

Your family may be uninformed, but you now are. Up to you what you do with the info, but if I were you I'd give it to family and let them chew on it for a while.

As to being divorced with 3 children, my step mother was widowed at 38, with 3 kids under 9. She muddled along for a couple of years, and then Boom! She and my dad met and were married within 3 months. Spent another 40 years married and happy, until his death.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:31 PM
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"No Atheists in a foxhole".
Everybody does better in jail. Its not real life. Of course they zee changes in him, but did THEY care before and NOT SEE?.
Bully's always pussy up when scared. Natural.

Now YOU stop making excuses and put your big girl panties on, dust off your knees and keep it moving. You have children, one coming.... Be the lioness you can be to keep them safe.
He will survive. He really does not worry about your feelings, only possession.
Your instinct is right. You've lived this before.
Stop repeating this pattern.
Live in peace.
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:42 PM
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Look up the information on children and domestic violence - print out the statistics. Then, when people give you crap about getting out of the relationship, tell them you are doing it for the kids so that they grow up healthy, intellectually powerful, don't start having sex too young, don't wind up in prison, don't get into abusive relationships. You are doing it because you love your kids more than you love an abusive relationship.

Your counselor will not push you one way or the other. Your counselor will let you make your own decision - that is part of counseling, you will understand why you make your decision a lot better, but it will still be your decision, not your counselor,s decision.

Let him do time. It's okay. He earned it. And you need the break so you can get a couple of years of counseling under your belt. And your kids can get a couple of years of counseling under their belts. You don't need to be dealing with all that pressure right now. There's a protective order in place - that means he can't contact you directly, and he cannot contact you through third parties telling you how well he's doing and how changed he is and how you both should violate the law so you can be together.

Get your head on straight. Tell people to stop telling you about him. Tell them that you need to repair the damage he has done and your previous relationship has done to you and your kids. Tell them to back off so you can get through this pregnancy as healthy as possible. You are an adult. I agree totally with the sentiment of putting your big girl panties on - do the counseling. All of it. Don't get into a relationship, new or pre-existing, without getting through the counseling. Get your life in order and your head together or your children are going to suffer. Not just you, your children. He doesn't have to lay a finger on them but they will suffer. The statistics are not good - help them by doing the counseling and stopping anybody from talking with you about him except your counselor. No more third party messages. None of that manipulative crap - he's not in therapy; he's in anger management. Anger management is totally bogus, but it's the only thing they can order a batterer to do. If there was something that actually helped prevent a batterer from beating up their domestic partner, then he'd be ordered to it.

Do what you know needs to be done. You don't stay with somebody who hits you because god wants you to. And you've already turned the other cheek. The next cheek you turn should be on your ass as you walk away. Get me?

Do what needs to be done.
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:05 PM
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Are you seeing a counselor experienced in domestic violence? Here’s a good way to find out... if the counselor is willing to see you together or god forbid recommends seeing you together, then you need to find another counselor. You should NOT BE IN COUNSELING TOGETHER. If your counselor is encouraging you to stay and work it out... are you actually seeing someone with a degree or certification? Or is this like a volunteer or someone from church or something?
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:12 PM
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If you divorce, it's not as if all your problems will disappear. You'll just be a divorcee, that's all. If you don't divorce, you get to be a married woman, even if in name only, and you and your kids will still be protected from harm. This cannot last forever, but your husband may stay in prison to be a totally changed man once he gets out.

I would suggest you wait and see how much time he gets. I don't know how much time is enough for him to change, and I realize that he may not get the maximum. However, I realize that you may not want him back within a few short months in case it is true that anger management did not really change him. However, you may want to see how much time he gets and decide whether there is a chance that particular duration will be enough for him to change.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:15 PM
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I'm sorry to say this, but please ignore the post above! Anger management WILL NOT change him. That's been documented too many times to have an argument over.

Almost no abusers ever stop being abusive, for the reasons I gave above. It's about 10% who stop hitting, but that tends to be because they really don't want to go back to prison (slightly better than those who take 'anger management' or batterers courses). What does not stop, however, is verbal/spiritual/economic abuse. It may even increase statistically. The other 90% who do not stop hitting usually get more violent. They are angry at you because you're the reason they went to prison (they can't accept that their own actions put them there), and they just can't stand it. You are in greater and greater jeopardy.

So, to reiterate, you have a 10% chance that he will come out being less physically abusive. Are you willing to put your children through that? Are you willing to subject them to the emotional abuse and drinking, knowing what it will do to them? This is not the way to play dice with your children's futures!
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:48 PM
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But both individuals involved were drunk, at least during the worst incident, and there weren't many incidents. Maybe there is still some hope as long as they stop drinking. Even just moderating it may help, but some people have trouble stopping once they start. The prison may have some AA group.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:12 PM
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I think she was only drinking the one time. What happens the next time? Or the time after? She's pregnant for pete's sake. What about the baby? I can't put myself in her shoes because I have never been in any sort of abusive relationship, verbal or physical, so I can only imagine how difficult it is to not only be in love with someone that is hurting you this way, but to also be legally married to that person, but my gut tells me that you need to be strong for your children and make what is probably one of, if not the hardest decisions you will ever make in your life, but what is the both the right and best decision and healthiest decision, to move on and seek a divorce. This does not mean your child cannot have some sort of a relationship with his/her father, however, you do not need to. You deserve to be and attain true happiness as well as the feeling of being loved and safe, all the time.

I've been divorced 10 years this month from my first husband. While my husband at times can be a real pain in my neck, and we had our moments during our divorce, etc., and my friends thought they were being supportive and helpful to me at the time by saying "oh, i never liked him anyway, etc" (that didn't help and I would usually defend him), my ex husband is generally a pretty nice guy. But, we had our issues, many involving the parenting of our 4 young children and my unhapiness in our marriage. We tried counseling and I also saw my own therapist. After a few months my of therapy my husband pretty much gave me a deadline of decided if I wanted to continue on with our marriage or not (something like that). Well, I have to tell you..while I did love my husband at that time, I was not IN love with my husband..and while I had 4 young children (ages 4-9), I have to tell you it was the damn hardest decision I ever made, but I had to think of both my own happiness, what I deserved and what my children deserved. My children did not deserve being with single parents, but they did deserve to be in a happy home. I know they wish they had two married parents, but they also saw that we were both much happier apart and better parents than we were together.

Now 10 years later, we are both remarried. He actually has 2 more kids!! (Crazy, since we had our own 4..lol). And in my case, no way was I have more kids..I was so over that phase..and obviously I"m on this site so my husband got into a little trouble, but, I wouldn't change anything for the world. My husband is the best thing that ever happened to me. He is the best stepfather ever, so supportive, my kids love him, he is there for me, etc. He is what a parent should be, even when the kids aren't his kids. Even in the present circumstances, I would not change a thing in my life. I found my true happiness. While Domestic abuse was not something I had to endure to get there, I did have to go through some pain and am going through pain with him in prison, but the pain is worth it to get to the joy at the end. Be strong, do what you know in your heart is right. I don't think you would be here if you didn't already know what the right thing was.

Trust me, when you are out of the situation, get some therapy, you will find the right man and you will know what true happiness is. Your children deserve it, and you deserve it. Do not listen to the other people telling you that you have children and should keep him around. They do not have to live in that situation!!

Good luck and be safe!
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:20 AM
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Love does not hit. It is that simple, love DOES NOT HIT, omg, what about this is hard to understand? He doesn’t know how to be in a normal loving relationship, he’s never seen one. But he’s amply displayed that he knows how to hurt you!!!! This is what you want in a man, for the father of your children???? He’s an awesome role setter, with any luck you can raise another generation of abusers and for the grand prize, maybe one of these times he’ll hurt you bad enough to kill you. Then your kids can go into the custody of the state since they will have lost both parents, one to the grave and the other to prison. Sounds healthy and wholesome to me. Yeah, you should go for that.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:45 AM
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This is the second abusive relationship?? .. He's not gonna change, so why do you keep going back?? You both have issues and you should focus on your children and move on ...and don't look back! God did not create women for men to beat!
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:17 AM
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If you divorce, it's not as if all your problems will disappear. You'll just be a divorcee, that's all. If you don't divorce, you get to be a married woman, even if in name only, and you and your kids will still be protected from harm. This cannot last forever, but your husband may stay in prison to be a totally changed man once he gets out.

I would suggest you wait and see how much time he gets. I don't know how much time is enough for him to change, and I realize that he may not get the maximum. However, I realize that you may not want him back within a few short months in case it is true that anger management did not really change him. However, you may want to see how much time he gets and decide whether there is a chance that particular duration will be enough for him to change.
In what century or world do you live? Seriously... speed up and join us in 2018...
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:51 AM
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I just don't agree with people who see relationships as disposable. Now, of course, there is a limit to it, but the relationship may be salvageable because there were very few incidents and drinking was a factor. No drinking, no fighting, or so one would hope. You may notice that the female participant punched the male participant in the face and not the other way around.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:45 AM
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Not entirely germane, but I'll explain why.

Yes, she punched him. I read that, too. However, it's been clear to anyone who's been in an abusive relationship that sometimes you've just had enough and more and you defend yourself, whether by words or actions. If you read back on one of my posts, you'll find that I hit once, too. Broke my husband's jaw. That happened to be long after the verbal abuse began, and the physical. Shocked the hell out of him, and he didn't put his hands on me again, but the verbal/emotional kept right on pouring out of him.

You say relationships are not disposable - well, neither are the souls of the abused. You still value your father so much that you just can't allow for the fact that some men are dangerous. Even though you were grievously wounded yourself by both parents, you give men a pass and assume that the women should be the ones to suffer in obeisance to the male ego.

That's not the way it works any more! Check out the #MeToo movement if you want to catch up with your own worth!
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:35 PM
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I do sometimes wish I had a more quiet and submissive mom instead of one who was triggering most family arguments, not to speak of what she was doing when my father wasn't even there. With him, my really nice paternal grandmother (who was living with us) and without my mom in the same house, I could have had anything from a normal life to a great improvement at the very least. If I had a stepmother too, I would just have wanted her to be normal. I wouldn't have expected her to replace the loving mom I never knew.

I say "knew" because she was a responsible parent while her kids were young. I heard that I became allergic to breast milk as an infant. She took me to the doctor and bought some special formula. She wasn't going out and neglecting her kids.

Nope! I don't believe that women are all innocent victims. It's about dysfunctional interactions, and the worst participant is not always the man.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:07 PM
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. If you don't divorce, you get to be a married woman, even if in name only.
Ohhhhh you “get” to be a married woman? I understand that in the 19th century being married was preferable to being a spinster or divorcee...but there is no such stigma attached to being single anymore and there’s no need to pretend that being a wife is such a boon that you should give up your health, safety, sanity, and dignity to remain one.

I wonder if perhaps your advice would be more helpful in areas of this site besides the Domestic Violence forums. I realize you have a right to post wherever you like, but I wish you would understand that your advice here is outdated and downright dangerous.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:18 PM
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But the next great man will have to accept 3 stepchildren from two different men (if I understood well, both still living) before he even gets to have any children of his own. And if he does, the children's mother will then have children by three different men.

I understand that there is much less stigma nowadays about such things, but don't you think that it's a little bit too much? That's one more reason to stick with daddy number two, so at least the kids won't need daddy number 3. Besides, the more existing children there are, the harder it gets to find a new man, and a better man than the previous.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:26 PM
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But the next great man will have to accept 3 stepchildren from two different men (if I understood well, both still living) before he even gets to have any children of his own. And if he does, the children's mother will then have children by three different men.

I understand that there is much less stigma nowadays about such things, but don't you think that it's a little bit too much? That's one more reason to stick with daddy number two, so at least the kids won't need daddy number 3. Besides, the more existing children there are, the harder it gets to find a new man, and a better man than the previous.
So in essence, an abusive marriage is better than no marriage. An abusive father is better than a stepfather. Is that your opinion?

Maybe the next guy has kids too. Maybe he doesn’t want any kids of his own. Maybe he can’t have kids. Maybe there isn’t a next guy. Maybe the next guy is a woman. NONE OF THIS MATTERS. The kids ALREADY don’t need daddy #3, because they’ve got MOMMY #1. But if daddy #3 comes along and wants to love those kids like they were his own... should he not get to because it would offend your precious beliefs about the sanctity of shitty marriages? Worrying about the next man up is not a reason to stay in a shitty marriage.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:27 PM
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Nope! I don't believe that women are all innocent victims. It's about dysfunctional interactions, and the worst participant is not always the man.
If you look at the stickies in this forum, you'll find one about abuse by women - written by me. I'm entirely aware, because it was my father who was the first one I was aware of being abused.

Now, back to the OP's problem - she's torn by the feelings of love and the fear of abuse.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:40 PM
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Aside from the extra mouths to feed, a history of repeated divorce reflects poorly on a divorcee. Actually, this is true for both sexes. Any partner worth having will wonder why a potential new spouse kept divorcing or getting someone to want a divorce, and why this new potential marriage might have better chances. Would you marry someone who was married 20 times before? It doesn't take that many times before most normal people will think that it might be better to stay out of this.

Or, if the OP still has feelings of love, that's one more reason to try to save the current relationship.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:46 PM
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Aside from the extra mouths to feed, a history of repeated divorce reflects poorly on a divorcee. Actually, this is true for both sexes. Any partner worth having will wonder why a potential new spouse kept divorcing or getting someone to want a divorce, and why this new potential marriage might have better chances. Would you marry someone who was married 20 times before? It doesn't take that many times before most normal people will think that it might be better to stay out of this.

Or, if the OP still has feelings of love, that's one more reason to try to save the current relationship.
The issue is not about how many times some one has been married or divorced, it's about whether to stay with a violent abusive spouse! You have some very out dated ideas and for anyone to advise someone to stay with an abuser for appearance sake is insane!!!
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:54 PM
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Aside from the extra mouths to feed, a history of repeated divorce reflects poorly on a divorcee. Actually, this is true for both sexes. Any partner worth having will wonder why a potential new spouse kept divorcing or getting someone to want a divorce, and why this new potential marriage might have better chances. Would you marry someone who was married 20 times before? It doesn't take that many times before most normal people will think that it might be better to stay out of this.

Or, if the OP still has feelings of love, that's one more reason to try to save the current relationship.
Lots of people get divorced , sometimes a couple of times in their lifetime.Relationships end or are outgrown.

It doesnt make someone a bad person. My partner has been divorced I am not running for the hills or judging his character. I have no doubt if I had married some of my long term partners I would be also.

Divorcing 20 times? I would think very few people do that unless they are obsessed with wedding cake. Divorce is an unpleasant and expensive legal process I dont think anyone does it for fun.

However if there is a valid reason then divorce is perfectly acceptable if someone is unhappy or abused or the relationship has broken down. No one should stay just for the "kudos" of being a married woman and that is outdated nonsense. Lets not try to return to an era of judging women by their marital status. Judging a womans worth by whether she has a ring on her finger does us all a diservice.
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