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  #1  
Old 01-31-2017, 03:35 PM
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Unhappy Homeowner charged with manslaughter for shooting at home invasion suspects

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A Minnesota homeowner is facing manslaughter charges after he told police he shot at a group of men who had tried breaking into his home, and one of the suspects later died in the hospital.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/31...-suspects.html

Oh my... you know... one thing I've never understood about residential burglars is why they put up with the "occupational hazard" that can come with the job? I mean, homeowners tend to be pretty protective of their domiciles and don't take kindly to looters and raiders, especially areas with high gun ownership rates and folks prepared to use them.

Now I know it can be easy to say "Well, hey, homeowner, they were just there to steal. It's just stuff. Is it really worth taking a life over... stuff?"

But of course, that question can be asked flipside as well: "Well, hey, burglar, it's just stuff. Is it really worth losing your life over... stuff?"

I mean, I don't know. Criminals do some pretty dumb things, but I'm just not seeing the "risk-vs-reward" factor here. I'm just not feeling it here.

Such a shame that one man is dead and another is going to jail for probably several years. Over what amounts to... stuff.

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Old 02-01-2017, 07:25 AM
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It IS a shame.
The homeowner was wrong tho for shooting at a car that was leaving.
Had they been IN his house he would have been justified at shooting.
Not sure if they had been just on his property how that would work, legally.
But driving away? The *threat* was over for the homeowner.

Sad someone is dead and sad the homeowner is probably going to do some time for this.
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:38 PM
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Similar story, but no inditement -

http://www.wltx.com/news/local/grand...-teen/76741027
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:50 AM
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Similar story happened (2014) in Detroit, there was a conviction..

DETROIT — The defendant stood facing the judge in Wayne County Circuit Court here on Wednesday, speaking tremulously and in a low voice, and apologized to the family of Renisha McBride, the 19-year-old woman he shot and killed on the front porch of his suburban home last year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/04/u...a-mcbride.html

This is unfortunate for all parties involved.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewalker View Post
It IS a shame.
The homeowner was wrong tho for shooting at a car that was leaving.
Had they been IN his house he would have been justified at shooting.
Not sure if they had been just on his property how that would work, legally.
But driving away? The *threat* was over for the homeowner.

Sad someone is dead and sad the homeowner is probably going to do some time for this.
This varies by jurisdiction. In some, you can shoot them in the back as they are fleeing, in others, no dice. Still, rare to indict.
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Old 03-28-2017, 01:20 AM
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Getaway driver facing felony murder charges after 3 burglary suspects shot to death by homeowner's son

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"These three individuals came to this residence with the intent to burglarize it," Deputy Nick Mahoney said, "One was with brass knuckles, the other one was with a knife."
...
Deputies said the resident armed himself with an AR-15 rifle and walked toward the back door where he encountered the three masked burglars.
http://okcfox.com/news/local/wagoner...ken-arrow-area

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Old 03-28-2017, 10:47 AM
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Someone who breaks into an occupied house is signalling that they're not just after stuff. Otherwise they'd wait for the homeowner to go on vacation.

I'd assume the worst if someone did that to me.

There's a lesson here, and it's not that the system is dangerous. It's that anyone who opts to rely on deadly force for protecting self and family has a duty, for the sake of the family, to learn how to use deadly force legally. I don't know where you go to get that kind of education any more but someone at the range could give a referral instantly.

Last edited by Minor activist; 03-28-2017 at 10:47 AM.. Reason: Restore paragraph breaks
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:00 AM
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That's what happened to me last year when I visited my man in the US and added a 2 week vacation to my trip, some schmuck(s) broke into my apartment and stole a bunch of really valuable stuff. Coming home was not nice to say the least and there was a certain trauma I went through for a while and I'm still anxious to leave for a few days even though I have a new more break-in-proof door but the feeling of anxiety somehow remains.
I own a baseball bat I would've probably grabbed but that's the extend of it. I'm all for gun-control and I would never ever buy a gun to protect myself or just to have in the house. But that's for another topic/thread.
Breaking in and being armed with a knife is a really bad idea but why the need to shoot someone dead? You fight violence with violence and this always ends bad. For both sides.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:07 AM
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This same thing just happened in Ohio.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor activist View Post
Someone who breaks into an occupied house is signalling that they're not just after stuff. Otherwise they'd wait for the homeowner to go on vacation.

I'd assume the worst if someone did that to me.

There's a lesson here, and it's not that the system is dangerous. It's that anyone who opts to rely on deadly force for protecting self and family has a duty, for the sake of the family, to learn how to use deadly force legally. I don't know where you go to get that kind of education any more but someone at the range could give a referral instantly.
Taking any reputable concealed carry or weapons class will teach you the laws for your state as far as personal and home protection goes. I'm in AZ, where you can carry open or concealed without any type or permit or license as long as you can legally own that firearm...and have carried nearly non stop since I turned 21. I have completed concealed carry classes and have my permit, but it's not required. I do think that there should be SOME requirement required to show that you have a basic understanding of the law and ability to fire your weapon with accuracy...though it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you shoot a fleeing suspect in the back you aren't going to be able to claim self defense.
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Old 03-28-2017, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MizzyMuffling View Post
That's what happened to me last year when I visited my man in the US and added a 2 week vacation to my trip, some schmuck(s) broke into my apartment and stole a bunch of really valuable stuff. Coming home was not nice to say the least and there was a certain trauma I went through for a while and I'm still anxious to leave for a few days even though I have a new more break-in-proof door but the feeling of anxiety somehow remains.
I can only imagine, Mizzy. You know, I've never been the victim of a violent crime before myself, and hope I never have to. I am quite aware though how people can develop PTSD from such experiences, as it can really shatter your feeling of security and safety, especially if it occurs in an intimate area, such as your own home or daily commute where you tend to be most comfortable.

I have been ripped off a few times, a bicycle stolen (chalked that up to my own fault for not locking it, even though it was right outside my apartment door where I hadn't had an issue in many months), a newspaper classifieds mail order job offer scam that cost me $50 in "application fee" and taught me an early life lesson, and buying some expensive software that turned out to be pirated (I was able to get a credit card reversal on that). But none of that can really compare to what it must be like to be a victim of a violent crime, to be physically threatened in such a personal way.

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I own a baseball bat I would've probably grabbed but that's the extend of it. I'm all for gun-control and I would never ever buy a gun to protect myself or just to have in the house. But that's for another topic/thread. Breaking in and being armed with a knife is a really bad idea but why the need to shoot someone dead? You fight violence with violence and this always ends bad. For both sides.
I don't know. I live in a pretty safe neighborhood right now, lower/working-class apartment complex but still pretty low crime rate, a strong dead-bolt and multiple locks and bar on the rear sliding glass door. So I'm not too worried about my own security, have renter's insurance for the stuff.

Since I'm not even allowed to own firearms for the time being, I have entertained the idea of getting a loud dog if I ever get around to buying a house. Probably enough to scare off any troublemakers away. If I ever did get a gun again for home defense, I would definitely only use it as a very last resort. Only (literally) if my life was directly and immediately threatened, like someone coming at me with a weapon or something. Otherwise, just hold the perp at gunpoint until the cops can be called and arrive. Or if he flees away, he flees away. So be it. Probably enough to scare the bejeezus out of him and make him reconsider doing that ever again. HAHA!

I don't think "mere" burglary should warrant the death penalty, people really should get their day in court, regardless of how serious the crime, but on the other hand, I find it hard to second-guess homeowners either, who are often literally confronted alone in the dark, with an intruder(s) whose intentions they do not know.

It's not a good situation, either way. But it does seem quite preventable. I can definitely think of far less risky lines of "work", that's for sure.

Last edited by Nickel Timer; 03-28-2017 at 03:36 PM..
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:30 AM
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>Or if he flees away, he flees away. So be it.

Heck yes.

The Lethal Force Institute training I got pounded this point. If the perp escapes without a scratch, you the defender have won. Unless you're a police officer your object is to keep yourself safe and not to make arrests.
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