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Oklahoma General Prison Talk, News, Introductions & Chit Chat Topics & Discussions relating to Prison & the Criminal Justice System in Oklahoma that do not fit into any other Oklahoma sub-forum category. Please feel free to also introduce yourself to other members in the state and talk about whatever topics come to mind that may not have anything to do with prison.

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  #1  
Old 10-18-2005, 04:24 PM
docwatchdog docwatchdog is offline
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Default DOC will take 20% of all the money you send in Oklahoma

I'm a little surprised that none of you seem to care that DOC is planing on taking 20% of all the money you send to the inmates. Who knows where they will try next to raise money? Charge fees if you want to visit maybe?
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Old 10-18-2005, 04:29 PM
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That would be because I'm out of the loop

This is the first I'm hearing, is there a link to the official scoop I can read up on?
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Old 10-18-2005, 05:05 PM
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Go to the Director's News on the DOC website.
http://www.doc.state.ok.us/DOCS/Dire...NITIATIVES.pdf
look under Legislative Initiatives approved by board of corrections

I know CURE has sent out the email on it several weeks ago as well as put the info in their newsletter
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Old 10-18-2005, 05:43 PM
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Unless I'm reading this wrong (which wouldn't be the first time), it says they want to hold 20% back for the inmate savings account so they have more at discharge. So that would at least mean it goes to the inmate not the state, right? And this is just what they want to try and pass this legislative session, it's not being enforced yet.

I still don't like it because I should have the right to save money for us in my own personal savings account. The money I send him he should be able to use.

Actually, I'm more worried about the new SO changes they want to make because your average offender can't afford all the testing and licensing they want to require. Those poly tests ain't cheap.

I guess I'll wait and see who picks this stuff up and go from there...
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:06 PM
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Default This is nothing new

There has always been mandatory savings of DOC wages. This isnt anything new. This has to be because the majority of inmates dont save a dime while incarcerated and when they get out without any money you can about guess what will happen. Contrary to popular belief most inmates dont have a plan when they get out.

If there is a law mandating all these tests then only fools would think that Inmates will be able to pay for these tests.
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:06 PM
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They already do this in many states, Colorado being one, and the inmate does not get the money back.
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Old 10-18-2005, 08:07 PM
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i'm reading it that they hold the money for inmates so when they get out they'll have some.
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Old 10-18-2005, 08:30 PM
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What about those that have Life without? Plus all the interest they will make off the money?
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Old 10-19-2005, 07:12 AM
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DOC, they could possibly put the money into Escrow, I'm sure there are regulations about stuff like that, where even prisons have to obey them. As far as people being in there for Life, it didn't go into detail. I kind of think it's a good idea though, many have nothing, not even family when they get out. At least it will give them a bit of dignity having a little bit of money.
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Old 10-19-2005, 12:15 PM
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Families should be able to decide that if the money that they send should go to the inmate's account or to a savings for them. Most families of inmates struggle to keep their own household going, pay for phone bills, & send money for the inmate's books. It's just another "creative" way for the state to use our money interest free. If they do this, those inmates who have no possibility of parole should be exempt. What are they saving their money for?
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Old 10-19-2005, 06:12 PM
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they should use it for there upkeep and expenses, i lose 20% in taxes that i will never see, why shouldnt someone in prison have the same done to them. Intrest free. Nothing is free as this money is tax payer money and no one involved in corrections is making money from inmates work or their savings. It is simple everything costs money and everyone has to pay whether you are a inmate or live in the free world.
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCbeast
they should use it for there upkeep and expenses, i lose 20% in taxes that i will never see, why shouldnt someone in prison have the same done to them. Intrest free. Nothing is free as this money is tax payer money and no one involved in corrections is making money from inmates work or their savings. It is simple everything costs money and everyone has to pay whether you are a inmate or live in the free world.
I think the fact that they work for for $8-$24 a month instead of at least min wage should constitute upkeep and expenses. If they had to pay an inmate a regular wage then I could see them keeping a part of it but they dont. Out here in the free ( if you want to call it that) world what they do would be called slave labor. I don't send my money in there for my man for DOC to keep part of it for saving. They get it all as it is. IS THAT NOT ENOUGH?? Plus my money is already TAXED before I send it to him and I already have a savings acct for us when he gets home.
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Old 10-19-2005, 05:30 PM
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Ya'll are lucky! We get 44% taken here in Cali, but if they are planning to give it back at the end of their sentence, then hey thats cool!
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Old 10-19-2005, 06:17 PM
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They are charging the inmates for being in prison now? What happens if an inmates receives no money? Do they send them a bill when they are released. Do you put a lien on their wages? 44% in California.
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Old 10-20-2005, 04:37 PM
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I've gotta agree here! I pay taxes on my money out here in the free world too. I go with bologna sandwiches almost every night for dinner just so I can pay my phone bill and all the other bills I have to pay now that I'm a single income home. The money I scrap together to send to my loved one for things like fans since there's no air flow in the middle of 100 degree Oklahoma summer, should go to him. That's my choice and my right. Just like it's every else's right to spend their money after taxes how they want.

The DOC chooses to pay them a tiny bit for working, that's the money that inmate savings should come from. And for inmates who have a chance of getting out, I think savings are a great idea. My only concern is making lifers save money they'll never get.

And this may sound cold to the other side, but Oklahoma is choosing to be this tough on crime. The politicians have their own laws to blame for the DOC financial shortfall. There are many many guys that don't need to be serving hard time. They could be handled more productively by having them on alternative sentences.

I know it's not that simple, but I would gladly pay the monthly monitoring fee to keep my guy locked up in our home! That would be cheaper than gas, phone bills, sending him money, and stamps. And it would save the taxpayers money on housing, security, transportation, healthcare, etc.

So nope, I'm against them taking any more of my money from him. They get enough all ready.
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Old 10-20-2005, 06:02 PM
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They ought to take 20% for every inmate in the system. Where else do you get food, medical care etc and still get paid and dont get taxed? For future reference eventually every inmate in the system will get out unless they have a death sentence. Very few inmates in Oklahoma die in prison as they are paroled to nursing homes, medical parole etc.

So as bad as it may seem look at this. How much money for comfort items does anyone have after you pay the bills? If you do have some money left over and you spend it it is still taxed.
Nothing is free and there are too many people who think that it is.
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Old 10-20-2005, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCbeast
They ought to take 20% for every inmate in the system. Where else do you get food, medical care etc and still get paid and dont get taxed? For future reference eventually every inmate in the system will get out unless they have a death sentence. Very few inmates in Oklahoma die in prison as they are paroled to nursing homes, medical parole etc.

So as bad as it may seem look at this. How much money for comfort items does anyone have after you pay the bills? If you do have some money left over and you spend it it is still taxed.
Nothing is free and there are too many people who think that it is.
This is a bit long so get a drink and make yourselves comfortable. (hehe)

The answer to your first question JC, "Where else do you get food medical care..." ... Right here in the United States man! What you described is what illegal immigrants in this country are given automatically. FOR FREE They can't get taxed on payments they receive for work that they do because... well because they are illegal. They don't even have to work to get the same benefits (or better) than someone who's worked for the majority of thier 65 or 67 years and paid thier 20% (or whatever) into a (defunct?) system and now wants to retire but can't becasue they have to pay a pretty high price for health care and food and basic needs (Medicare). *DONT SEND ME HATE MAIL* I'm simply being devils advocate and making a rebuttal to JC. I'm not knocking immigrants here. Please don't anyone think that. Bless thier hearts, the majority of the folks who are here illegally know what hard work is and they are not above working thier tails off from sun up to sun down. They'd work circles around some the "legal" people I work with!

JC maybe I don't understand what you mean but these men/women ALREADY DO pay "taxes." Not the kind that require a W4 but it's money that comes out of thier pay. (Here is a link to the DOC that explains in some detail. http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offtech/op090131.htm )
They get paid every month for the jobs that they do; kitchen, manufacturing, welding, cattle ranching, etc. They get at least 10% taken out of whatever they make. That money can go toward thier "savings" or can go to pay off thier court costs, outstanding student loans or child support

Regardless of whether the inmates serving LWOP die in prison or a nursing home, they don't get to benefit from the money that's held out like other inmates who get released do. Ya can't take it with you when you die so where does it go?? By the way, are you just shooting from the hip here or do you have some type of facts to back up your statements for our "future reference?" (Any of the factual statements I make can be backed up by going to the DOC website.)

The inmates pay "taxes" on everything they buy in thier canteen just the same as when the people who work @ the prison buy something there. That "TAX" money is used for the amenities or benefits that the prisoners get; such as the 10 channels of (less than basic) cable they get; if thier security points allow it of course. Things like that are not paid for out of the general prison budget, contrary to popular belief. They are bought with the profits or "tax money" from the canteen. (Incedently,that money is also used to benefit the prison guards and employees too, since they make purchases @ the canteen, it's the fair thing to do.)

AND speaking of profits from the canteen, this is another way they get "taxed." If they order hobby items to make Christmas gifts with (I'm talking about things like craft sticks, glue and toothpicks here, not real wood and wood crafting tools) if they get to order some material, they get charged tax when they order (or give the front office thier order, rather, to place online)and they get charged for freight as well, just like we would. When thier stuff comes in, the canteen receives it into thier stock as if it were thier merchandise (even though the inmate paid for it already) and they have to purchase it AGAIN from the canteen for an 18% upcharge. How they can do this, I'm not sure. Well what am I saying?? They can do just about anyting they want I suppose.

Basically if I want to send an inmate $20, that's $20 that I've already been taxed on in my paycheck. It's not money that he/she has earned, it's a gift to them more than anything else. SO what the DOC is wanting to do, in effect is tax gifts from ME! Just like the outrageous phone costs some of you are paying. The folks on the outside get the shaft! I just hope that it does not "pass go." There will be some ticked of people on both sides of the walls.

In refrence to your satements from 10/18/05: "Contrary to popular belief most inmates dont have a plan when they get out.If there is a law mandating all these tests then only fools would think that Inmates will be able to pay for these tests."
You can be 99.9% sure that the loved ones of the people who post regularly on this site will, or already do, have a plan for when they get out. It's a major part of the whole process. Unfortunately not all inmates are lucky enough to have someone on the outside who care about them. They are the ones who typically will end up back in. So making a blanket statements such as that in a forum like this just makes you sound uninformed, quite frankly.

Well JC I think I see what you're trying to say, overall, and I respectfully disagree. Quite honestly, you sound a bit angry in your posts that I"ve read and so I'm a little suspicious of your intentions. Are you trying to incite or inflame fellow posters or maybe this is just a "hot-button" issue for you. I'm not sure but I'd fight for your right to speak your peace regardless of whether I agree or not though. :~)

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Old 10-21-2005, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCbeast
They ought to take 20% for every inmate in the system. Where else do you get food, medical care etc and still get paid and dont get taxed? For future reference eventually every inmate in the system will get out unless they have a death sentence. Very few inmates in Oklahoma die in prison as they are paroled to nursing homes, medical parole etc.
JC, I think we're just coming at this from different angles and always will be...lol. Jeff would gladly pay his full taxes, his own insurance & health care, food to his liking, and air/heat when he needs it if they would let him. He doesn't have that choice anymore. If as a society we feel it is our right to take those choices away and incarcerate individuals (like we do) then it's also our responsibility to see to their care.

We all have to pay for that just like we have to pay for the military even if we're against war, environmental issues even if we can't stand 'tree-huggers', etc. Neither one of us likes it, just for different reasons

My only major problem is that I don't want to have to pay my share twice just because I am involved with someone who's incarcerated.

Just a side note here: This is a really good debate and I'm enjoying all views even though I might not agree with them all...lol. But this is also one of those touchy subjects so just a reminder to keep it friendly as we go pretty please

Last edited by freckledgrl; 10-21-2005 at 03:21 PM..
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:05 PM
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There are some things that do seem very high especially the phone calls part of being incarcerated. But the part about the 20% being withheld in state savings is in my opinion the right thing to do. A previous statement was made that 99.9% of people who post here have a plan for their loved one may be right but keep in mind that alot of inmates dont have loved ones who are on this site. (that is a shame) and that 99.9% is very small when compared with the total number of people who get out of DOC every day.

As far as taxes go, there is no where you can give money to someone that it is not taxed in some shape or form. I believe that the only taxing done is on inmate wages not on money sent in. There is a provision that part of a inmates wages are put into savings. I say this because the IRS allows a yearly gift of 2000 dollars that is not taxed.

I dont think that there is a great amount of money being saved or accrued with these savings. I really dont think that DOC even figures that money in a budget decisions (if they did and still came up with a shortfall then that would be a problem).

As far as the one person put it about mandatory testing for sex offenders (polygraphs etc) there is no way that most offenders will be able to pay that. With alot of people getting sent back to prison for failure to pay supervison fees etc, i can only imagine what problems people will have with paying 100$ for a polygraph test.

i am not angry or even mean, just realistic
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE JCbeast = There are some things that do seem very high especially the phone calls part of being incarcerated. But the part about the 20% being withheld in state savings is in my opinion the right thing to do. A previous statement was made that 99.9% of people who post here have a plan for their loved one may be right but keep in mind that alot of inmates dont have loved ones who are on this site. (that is a shame) and that 99.9% is very small when compared with the total number of people who get out of DOC every day.

REPLY Nikol = What I actually said was "You can be 99.9% sure that the people who post on this site..blah..blah." But my post was sooooo long that by the time most people got to the last few paragraphs I'm sure it all ran together. What's odd is that, in person, I don't talk a lot. I guess one could say I just like to "hear myself type" (instead of talk.)

JC BEAST QUOTE= As far as taxes go, there is no where you can give money to someone that it is not taxed in some shape or form. I believe that the only taxing done is on inmate wages not on money sent in. There is a provision that part of a inmates wages are put into savings. I say this because the IRS allows a yearly gift of 2000 dollars that is not taxed.

REPLY NIKOL= The new "legislative suggestion" is that 20% of all money an inmate receives be withheld from them in their "savings." I agree with this to a point: The wages of the inmate should be withheld if there is a resonable chance that he can use that money to benefit himself or his family. Otherwise it's just a "put-on" to make it look like the DOC is doing some service for the inmate. That way the people who incarcerate ladies like the one Goobermom mentioned below can sleep a little better at night.
~ BTW~ When's the last time you got taxes taken out of $20 you got in your Birthday card? Taxing gifts over a certain dollar amount is an Uncle Sam specialty but the small "gifts" of money that go to loved ones in prison are too small to tax.

QUOTE JCBeast = I dont think that there is a great amount of money being saved or accrued with these savings. I really dont think that DOC even figures that money in a budget decisions (if they did and still came up with a shortfall then that would be a problem).

REPLY Nikol = I hope they don't include the inmates savings in thier budget. It should not belong to them. What they DO include in thier budget is the taxes/fees/profits/whatever you want to call them that they get for canteen sales, like I decsribed in an earlier post. That's where the funding for the inmates extra-curricular activities come from. They (DOC) don't make a big fuss about that publicly because then the public might start to actively question where all the DOC budget money IS going. (It's not going for decent food that's for sure!)


i am not angry or even mean, just realistic[/quote]

SO, JC, you're a "Realist?" That's cool! It's the Realists that help keep the rest of us in check. There's got to be someone to take a little of the wind out of our sails or we'd end up floating away!

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Old 10-21-2005, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledgrl
I've gotta agree here! I pay taxes on my money out here in the free world too. I go with bologna sandwiches almost every night for dinner just so I can pay my phone bill and all the other bills I have to pay now that I'm a single income home. The money I scrap together to send to my loved one for things like fans since there's no air flow in the middle of 100 degree Oklahoma summer, should go to him. That's my choice and my right. Just like it's every else's right to spend their money after taxes how they want.

The DOC chooses to pay them a tiny bit for working, that's the money that inmate savings should come from. And for inmates who have a chance of getting out, I think savings are a great idea. My only concern is making lifers save money they'll never get.

And this may sound cold to the other side, but Oklahoma is choosing to be this tough on crime. The politicians have their own laws to blame for the DOC financial shortfall. There are many many guys that don't need to be serving hard time. They could be handled more productively by having them on alternative sentences.

I know it's not that simple, but I would gladly pay the monthly monitoring fee to keep my guy locked up in our home! That would be cheaper than gas, phone bills, sending him money, and stamps. And it would save the taxpayers money on housing, security, transportation, healthcare, etc.

So nope, I'm against them taking any more of my money from him. They get enough all ready.

YOU SAID IT!! Oklahoma's "WAR ON CRIME" is going to run Oklahoma into bankruptcy as a state. Think of all the 85% sentences being served now and the ones that have yet to start! How the heck are they going to afford to keep all these people warehoused (face it, that's what it is)for that long??? Something's got to give.

Did anyone see the story about the lady who got hit by the frozen turkey? (I have a point, I promise, stay with me here) A teenage boy threw a frozen turkey out of a car window and it went through this lady's windshield. It shattered almost every bone in her face and damn near killed her. This week they were at trial and she made a suggestion to the court for him to just do "time served" and 5 years probation.
She said "I was given a 2nd chance at life... I wanted to pass it on." (Or for you Kevin Spacey fans, "Pay It Forward"). MInd you, she's not all warm and fuzzy with the kid. She told him she has not forgiven him but she said "I wanted justice without vengence." What a concept, huh! Wouldn't we be a better society if we could live by that, even a little bit!

Yes of course people need to know that there are consequenses to thier actions and there are many people who DO belong in prison but there are those who would benefit society more (or at least not be a burden to society) with alternative means of punishment. The current form of punishment does not seem to be a deterent by any means so why not give it a try?
How many second chances like the story above have been missed due to the fact that our legal system is full of anger insted of compassion? I can think of a few right now!
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Old 10-21-2005, 01:48 PM
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Nik- Well spoken on your comments. So many of the sentences these days are way out there. I know someone here in OK (female w/children) who served 2 years in prison because she didn't have the money to pay her traffic tickets. She was busy trying to feed her kids because their dad didn't pay his child support. She went to prison, he didn't. And have you noticed as you pull up some people w/felonies who have never served any time. Four weeks ago, my daughter's ex boyfriend found her & beat her up, as well as tried to rape her. He is now threatening to kill her.There is a warrant out for him & it appears no one is attempting to pick him up. If you look at his court records, the listing is a whole page long & he has not served 1 minute of time. OK's court/"justice" system stinks! (Sorry, you got me started on this one.) Many of the ones who should be in aren't & many who shouldn't be in are serving huge sentences.
Back to the original requests from DOC for legislation to be passed, it looks like an idiot submitted alot of it. Besides the 20% deal, wasn't the idea of hiring 18 year olds to be CO's a great idea??? It seems to me to be a great way to get some people killed. Most 18 year olds haven't got a clue yet, much less guard hardened inmates. It seems to me they are looking for anything that is a quick fix. We know that usually never works.
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Old 10-20-2005, 08:26 PM
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The answer to your question is welfare.
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Old 10-21-2005, 10:40 PM
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Just a quick question - What is this about tests that SOs are required to take, polygraph, etc. Can someone direct me to this info?

I feel the 20% is a way for the DOC to use an inmate's money to make interest on these monies. I would be curious to see the money trail on this.

85% is quite excessive for some offenses. Once again I think you have a bunch of politicians trying to make sure they are re-elected by being tough on so-called criminals w/o thinking about the actual ramifications of their decisions. I feel correctional system could save an enormous amount of money by handing out community service sentences to a great number of inmates who are no danger to anyone.

Just a few of my thoughts to the above mentioned.
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Old 10-23-2005, 10:39 PM
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The Board of Corrections approved 25 legislative initiatives for the agency to pursue during the upcoming legislative session at its monthly meeting on September 29, 2005. The summary below is inclusive of the proposed initiatives and the expected outcome of each.

Does this mean they are not 'actual' rules right now?
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