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When the Relationship is Over... This forum is about discussing your thoughts, feelings and issues now that you and your incarcerated (or formerly incarcerated) loved one are no longer together. (This forum is NOT for bashing - please read the rules before posting.)

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  #26  
Old 01-24-2019, 01:51 AM
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After about two months....I’m seeing that I made the right call.

She tried for about two minutes to make a serious effort to make things right. Out of respect for the time we have had together, I listened. But I also kept my distance and put it on her, for once, to do the right thing.

She, of course, backed away again.

And then when her friend Cece came to town for almost a month to clear up legal issues, homeless and really only having me and Dee as reliable people here in Los Angeles....Dee just kept putting her off. For drugs. And for a guy that we came to find out is a drug dealer.

At this point I feel sad for her. And that’s about it. I’m not grieving. The woman I loved.....if she ever was who I thought she was....doesn’t appear to be that. She stays away from home frequently and mostly ignores her kids.

It’s just sad. I am sad for her. For a long time I believed she could be one of the success stories here. And now she just looks like she’s destined to be one of those statistics that the tough-on-crime crowd points at when they talk about recidivism rates and reoffending and argue against prison reform....

Me? I’m dating. I’m raising my kids. I’m moving on to better things. And I am still putting one foot down and then the other and keeping on walking.

Never thought it would go like this. Until it did...

-Eric
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:00 AM
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So sorry, Missing. It's always sad when people live down to our worst fears and expectations.

Good on you, however, for knowing what was happening and not just accepting it.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:19 AM
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Thank you for your update. I have found myself in a similar situation. I knew there would be obstacles, and expected them in a few months after his release. We lasted six weeks and he dumped me, oh well, life goes on. We all want the relationship to last, a few do, some just were never meant to be.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:00 AM
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Im terribly sorry MissingDee.
Its always hard.
I AM glad you are putting one foot in front of the other rather than stopping and putting yourself on hold for her.
Clearly she is not ready to give up that life, and walk away from it.
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:27 AM
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I'm sorry to hear the sad state of the situation, but I'm at least glad you can have the confirmation that you did make the right call!
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:48 PM
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Its so hard when you have invested so much time and love and support in someone and then when they have choices to make they dont chose you. She will one day regret losing you and missing out on her children. However that day isnt now and it sounds like she has reverted to type and chosing a destructive live with dealers.

You are a very levelheaded man and you are doing the right thing living your life and doing your own thing. You cant save her , no one can.
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:54 PM
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No words except I'm sorry. I'll pray for both of you.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:19 PM
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Don't forget E, the best gardens need the topsoil broken and manure for fertilizer. Now you are just getting prepared to bloom and blossom. I am sorry your journey with Dee is over, but look at the gifts you've discovered and given along the way. (((E)))
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:20 PM
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...and missing out on her children.

I've largely avoided taking shots at her, but seeing as Cece has become like a little sister to me, when she mistreated Cece, I couldn't help it. I laid into her and basically let her know what she was doing was inappropriate. It became a series of words that I can't repeat in church


But I told her outright in one of those text messages something along the lines of "I don't think you get it. You're not young anymore. You can't lie and steal and hope that you can get away with things with your looks. You look worn out and like you've aged. Your genetics are not winning anymore. One of these days you're going to wake up and realize you're old. And that you have nothing left. And that you spent the last twenty years, by and large, making the wrong decisions and that everything you've done to yourself is your fault. Not mine. Not your parents'. Not your sister's. YOURS. And the worst part is? This isn't even about your kids anymore. I hope you wake up before that happens."


What she doesn't know is that I know about 2 months ago she told her daughters, during an argument, that she doesn't need them in her life as long as she has her son. I found out a lot of things when her sister and I sat down, cleared the air and shared secrets we'd kept. We won't be keeping them anymore. But that would make for a whole different post.


Real winner of a mom, huh? I put in a lot of time and effort to help her get back to her kids and supported her re-connecting. I made God-knows how many illegal three-way calls and eventually set up and even paid for her to be able to call them direct so I didn't have to be available anymore. Forget for a moment what she did to me...that is between me and her, I can forgive and move on...but she asked me to make that investment on her behalf and she did that to them? I can't forgive her on their behalf. That's something she has to live with.



No. Not cool.


The sad thing is, they really are great kids. I just wish I actually knew them.....


I am okay with the idea of being collateral damage. I've stopped her from inflicting more pain on me. I am not okay with her damaging others, particularly the ones who I helped her repair relationships with. She's still hurting them. I wish there was something I can do for them. However, they need to find their own way out......

By the way, as I make a last edit here....several months ago Dee said to me "I think someone should write a book about my life." You know what? I just might do it...with my buddy Frank C. Girardot (Google him!) Him and I have been talking about Dee for years. And I think he could help me get the whole thing print-worthy. When I'm ready, of course. I'm not yet. But some day, I will be...and at that point it might be therapeutic.

-Eric
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:04 PM
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I hope you dont write a book about her, I hope that one day you are able to give her the same respect and attention she has given you......none.

Then you will know that you have moved on and she is in your past and not part of the happiness you deserve in the future.
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Old 01-26-2019, 12:01 AM
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A saying .. ‘we can’t save people from themselves ..’
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:20 PM
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I hope you dont write a book about her, I hope that one day you are able to give her the same respect and attention she has given you......none.

Then you will know that you have moved on and she is in your past and not part of the happiness you deserve in the future.
Writing is part of my mental cleansing process. I understand your point and appreciate the thought. You’re right about the respect and attention given. I don’t disagree. But in large part her experience became mine. And the truths that were revealed. Writing it out is probably going to be part of my final cleansing and processing. And if the story gives insight to others.....then all the better.

But I am not ready to do that yet....

-Eric
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Old 01-28-2019, 09:49 PM
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I'm so sorry. Mentally prepare yourself for the day she knocks at your door looking for help. May not be soon, but when she hits bottom she will look for you again.

Please take time to heal.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:42 PM
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I'm so sorry. Mentally prepare yourself for the day she knocks at your door looking for help. May not be soon, but when she hits bottom she will look for you again.

Please take time to heal.

It's still a vow of mine that, if she comes to me and says "I'm ready to change," I will support that. If she wants to get in a program, I will pick her up and take her to rehab if she calls me for a ride. If she's literally dying of starvation on the streets and calls me begging for help, I will find her, buy her a meal, and ask her "is this really worth it?" And again....I'll offer her that ride to rehab if she wants it. Otherwise I'll say "that's your last meal.....think about where life is going from here." Literally. That's all I've got left in me if she doesn't get help. One meal and a pep talk.



However, I'm no longer going to be part of the enabling process that prevents that from happening. If she isn't willing to get help, then no. For once in her life, she needs to understand that "rock bottom" is a lot worse than the horror she's already experienced. No amount of love, of coddling, of support, of money, of any of that, has convinced her that there's more to life than bullshit. So....I'm giving her what she wants.


I'm giving her all the bullshit money can't buy.


I know there's a lot of people on here dealing with addicted loved ones. They have to discover their own path. Just bear this in mind.....nothing you do is going to make them better. You have to make yourself better. Them getting better is on them. That is not a crack at any of your loved ones nor is it a crack at Dee, but a bit of truth that I've learned over the years so I'd like to share the wisdom. Addiction is a wicked, wicked disease. I wish there was an easy cure. I wish you could "love" someone back to health. I wish that they could see "oh, I have a good thing in my life, let me use that to my advantage and get straight and stay straight." Maybe in some cases it does work. But all too often it doesn't. So...healthy boundaries. Don't overthink it. You're worth more than sacrificing everything for someone who won't even sacrifice for themselves.



-Eric
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:09 AM
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[quote=missingdee;7762180]It's still a vow of mine that, if she comes to me and says "I'm ready to change," I will support that. If she wants to get in a program, I will pick her up and take her to rehab if she calls me for a ride. If she's literally dying of starvation on the streets and calls me begging for help, I will find her, buy her a meal, and ask her "is this really worth it?" And again....I'll offer her that ride to rehab if she wants it. Otherwise I'll say "that's your last meal.....think about where life is going from here." Literally. That's all I've got left in me if she doesn't get help. One meal and a pep talk.



However, I'm no longer going to be part of the enabling process that prevents that from happening. If she isn't willing to get help, then no. For once in her life, she needs to understand that "rock bottom" is a lot worse than the horror she's already experienced. No amount of love, of coddling, of support, of money, of any of that, has convinced her that there's more to life than bullshit. So....I'm giving her what she wants.


I'm giving her all the bullshit money can't buy


I know there's a lot of people on here dealing with addicted loved ones. They have to discover their own path. Just bear this in mind.....nothing you do is going to make them better. You have to make yourself better. Them getting better is on them. That is not a crack at any of your loved ones nor is it a crack at Dee, but a bit of truth that I've learned over the years so I'd like to share the wisdom. Addiction is a wicked, wicked disease. I wish there was an easy cure. I wish you could "love" someone back to health. I wish that they could see "oh, I have a good thing in my life, let me use that to my advantage and get straight and stay straight." Maybe in some cases it does work. But all too often it doesn't. So...healthy boundaries. Don't overthink it. You're worth more than sacrificing everything for someone who won't even sacrifice for themselves.

/END QUOTE

Thanks for sharing this, I relate. Addiction is a disease it destroys lives and families. It wears on everyone close to them. I’ve had loved ones and partners afflicted with it. I’ve had personal experience with it and been clean and sober now for many years. I’m not necessarily a believer in ‘tough love’ I believe that people are deserving of love and support and empathy and if someone reaches out I will be there. You’re right, you can’t do the work for someone else and you cannot help them if they are not willing to help themselves. Watching someone’s life get destroyed by addiction is hell. My ex husband relapsed after being sober for a few years he spiraled out and become absent and a horrible father. I finally kicked him out he went to detox (again) and got sober. But we still had problems down the line. My sister struggled with her addiction for almost 20 years. Eventually she got sick and died unexpectedly. I think she knew what she needed to do to get sober but couldn’t bring herself to do it. I was able to be with her when she died. There are things I wish I could have done differently, but keeping my boundaries is not one of them. Too many people turned a blind eye and enabled her. I agree with you taking care of yourself and not taking it on and internalizing it is the best you can do for yourself and ultimately it can help the other person and let yourself get healthy and strong. My heart goes out to you, best wishes with everything and be good to yourself

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Old 01-30-2019, 11:34 PM
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Dude, don’t even pick her sorry ass up for rehab if she wants to go; if she really wants to go, she’ll find a way.
You’re far more than she ever deserved.

And I say write the book, make a ton of money and don’t give her a dime.
You can always use that money to take me out for dinner.
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:31 PM
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And I say write the book, make a ton of money and don’t give her a dime.
You can always use that money to take me out for dinner.
Don't threaten me with a good time


Without venturing too far off-topic, while I'll stop short of saying that Dee's life story is about to become a book, when I spoke with my author friend and mentioned where she did her time and some of her traits, he kind of raised an eyebrow and took a bit of interest. He'd like to speak with her, though.....normally I wouldn't recommend this, but given that he's written books about "Clark Rockefeller" (Christian Karl Gerhartsreiter....the book is called "Name Dropper" and involves an identity-creating psychopath) and John Orr (the fire investigator who turned out to be a serial arsonist,) he does have a bit of experience dealing with that sort... I'm just not sure that this is the best time to speak to Dee. (Or to write a book.)


If I did write a book, it would have to be more expansive than a simple biographic sketch because it would include interactions with several other women who served time and a couple side-plots involving a certain type of man that she tended to attract into her life (the type that isn't me...the type of man that no sane woman would want to be around...)


I'll drop one tidbit that I shared with Frank Girardot, and that's in regard to now-three times recommended for parole (twice rejected by Governor Brown, no word yet on what Governor Newsom will do when he's presented with the case) Manson Family member Leslie Van Houten. Dee told a great story about how LVH is a "bitch" and that she "hopes she never gets parole." But her rationale has nothing to do with time served, rehabilitation, anything like that....no. Van Houten was mean to Dee in the laundry room and wouldn't give her an extra blanket. (Apparently LVH is notoriously stand-offish with inmates she doesn't know and trust and "can spot a bullshitter a mile away...." you figure with 40+ years in prison she's seen and heard it all as far as people tryin to get one over on her.....) And for that reason, she hopes LVH rots.


We had a good chuckle over that one.....


Then there's the time that Jillian Cini, who's made a couple of different lists of "hot female felons" over the years (including this one) texted me from a contraband cell phone asking for $100. I told her "that's sweet Jillian, but I know who you are and I don't want to get shot in any hotel parking lots like your last boyfriend."


I need to sit down and really outline the incidents and the post-prison revelations. Part of the problem in staying silent is that some of the stories are so interesting that it almost seems a shame to NOT tell them.



(It's this sort of insanity that I have to go back and re-process that has me considering the book, just so we're clear.)


-Eric
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:49 PM
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Thanks for sharing this, I relate. Addiction is a disease it destroys lives and families. It wears on everyone close to them. I’ve had loved ones and partners afflicted with it. I’ve had personal experience with it and been clean and sober now for many years. I’m not necessarily a believer in ‘tough love’ I believe that people are deserving of love and support and empathy and if someone reaches out I will be there. You’re right, you can’t do the work for someone else and you cannot help them if they are not willing to help themselves. Watching someone’s life get destroyed by addiction is hell. My ex husband relapsed after being sober for a few years he spiraled out and become absent and a horrible father. I finally kicked him out he went to detox (again) and got sober. But we still had problems down the line. My sister struggled with her addiction for almost 20 years. Eventually she got sick and died unexpectedly. I think she knew what she needed to do to get sober but couldn’t bring herself to do it. I was able to be with her when she died. There are things I wish I could have done differently, but keeping my boundaries is not one of them. Too many people turned a blind eye and enabled her. I agree with you taking care of yourself and not taking it on and internalizing it is the best you can do for yourself and ultimately it can help the other person and let yourself get healthy and strong. My heart goes out to you, best wishes with everything and be good to yourself

Thank you.



Addiction is definitely a beast of an issue, and knowing what approach to take to it (and when to take it) is complicated. I'm not a "Tough Love" guy so going to a "Tough Love" approach was not easy, and Dee doesn't seem to like it much.


At the same time, I've chosen to go the route I have gone with her because I need to be able to protect and take care of myself. I was well past the point where I was doing that. I had reached a point where not only was she not respecting my boundaries, but I was not respecting my own.


"Tough Love" can have an ugly look, but the reality is that if we are not taking care of ourselves and focused in the middle of our loved ones' dramas, then no amount of any sort of love is going to put us in a position to help ourselves, let alone them.


I am glad that you have been able to maintain sobriety in your own life and not let addiction run it. It sounds like your past experience might also give you a degree of additional insight into addicts that I do not have as someone who has not had an issue with substance abuse addiction. Enabling looks like love at first glance. It's only when we start to recognize the negative patterns that it creates in our lives and the lives of the addict that we start to realize...it's really not. In my opinion, anyway....




-Eric
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:34 AM
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Thank you.



Addiction is definitely a beast of an issue, and knowing what approach to take to it (and when to take it) is complicated. I'm not a "Tough Love" guy so going to a "Tough Love" approach was not easy, and Dee doesn't seem to like it much.


At the same time, I've chosen to go the route I have gone with her because I need to be able to protect and take care of myself. I was well past the point where I was doing that. I had reached a point where not only was she not respecting my boundaries, but I was not respecting my own.


"Tough Love" can have an ugly look, but the reality is that if we are not taking care of ourselves and focused in the middle of our loved ones' dramas, then no amount of any sort of love is going to put us in a position to help ourselves, let alone them.


I am glad that you have been able to maintain sobriety in your own life and not let addiction run it. It sounds like your past experience might also give you a degree of additional insight into addicts that I do not have as someone who has not had an issue with substance abuse addiction. Enabling looks like love at first glance. It's only when we start to recognize the negative patterns that it creates in our lives and the lives of the addict that we start to realize...it's really not. In my opinion, anyway....




-Eric
Thank you as well. Your story is very powerful. I agree that enabling people addicts in particular not only can make the addiction worse (the addict doesn’t have consequences for their behavior, and continues the self destructive cycle) Also, through that enabling we hurt ourselves, the self esteem even takes a toll and we can become immersed and swallowed by the whole situation. I don’t love the term ‘co dependency’ it has a negative connotation but that’s what happens when we love/support (in an enabling way) the addict. We lose our own lives and self worth

I’ll clarify about tough love I believe it can be the answer when dealing with an addict we love who is on a downward spiral. Which is showing love actually. Rather than enabling which can look like live at first sight. I love that that’s really deep. Because we feel we are showing love and compassion by taking care of someone who can’t take care of themselves. When an addict is on their own with no one to bail them out that’s when they can look at their life and that they are responsible for it. For me giving my ex husband an ultimatum either he goes to detox or I’m kicking him out was tough love. I didn’t like it but I had to. For MYSELF and my kids. And it worked he went to detox and got sober. And it worked for me and my kids because. He had to face that he could be homeless without his family or go to detox. My sister was not shown tough love it might have been the reason she didn’t get sober. Everyone enabled her. Still I’m glad I didn’t shut her out completely I was still able to show her love and compassion. Maybe tough love would’ve gotten her sober. I kept some boundaries but I tried to be there also taking her to meetings being a friend to her

I respect and admire that you walked away the way you did because you are showing you respect and value yourself and will not get stuck in enabling someone’s addiction which is wreaking havoc on your life and not respecting your own boundaries. I learned more about boundaries when I got sober. In al anon there’s the expression ‘detach with love’. And it sounds like that’s what you’re doing. It’s not easy.

And it sounds like you are not carrying around bitterness or anger/resentment. That’s powerful. It’s easy to say ‘f*** that guy/girl look what they did to me.’ That in turn makes it worse because anger is toxic. And it’s contagious. So I’m moved by how you are handling that aspect. People love to throw darts

You’re more than welcome to ask me anything about addiction/dealing with other addicts ��. Also I know just how hard it is watching your partner self destruct. I’ve been in that situation a few times. So my heart really goes out to you. Wishing you the best with everything you’re doing

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Old 03-06-2019, 12:38 PM
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I figured I would update everyone on the status.


First, let me emphasize. Dee and I are not back together. If there is going to be a reconciliation of the relationship on a romantic level, it's months, if not years away and is going to require a lot of work on her part not on us but on herself. So I just want to emphasize that. I'm doing my thing. The more information I've gathered, the more I wonder if I ever knew a version of Dee that was actually sober, fully honest, and mentally healthy rather than deceitful and manipulative and fighting inner demons that I can't quite fathom.



Dee's had a few bad episodes recently. I'm not going to spell out all the details, but essentially she's lost all family support. Her kids don't even want to see her. I'm about 95% of the way out the door with her, but the family's 100%. So....this kind of has stuck me as the liason for the moment. She's currently in a sober living facility as a temporary housing situation until her parole officer can find her a more permanent facility that's more appropriate for her needs (homelessness, drug addiction and mental health.) She's lost about half of her possessions over the last month and a half. And she's half-listening to me right now....which probably sounds bad, but that's more than she's listened to me when I've tried to talk to her about things for the past 6 months or so.


I'm keeping some boundaries with her. I saw her over the weekend, made sure she was okay at the place that she is at, and let her know I would come out and take her for a meal on Thursday. She doesn't have much money and a lot of debts, so I am working with the understanding that any time I spend around her right now is going to be on my dime. I have let her know that I will not give her money, credit cards, gift cards, etc. because I do not trust her with those things right now. I've also let her know that the only thing I will purchase for her is food, and only when we go out for a meal. I will not be her chauffer. I will not drive her places. If there are things that she needs brought to her from her parents, she will have to wait until I can go over there to see them as her father has made it clear that I am welcome at the house any time (preferably with advance warning, of course,) but that he does not want her there. These rules are hard, fast and set. I'm not expecting sobriety from her right now because frankly that's impossible. She is not mentally in a place where she seems to understand just how royally she has messed up this time, and I don't want to bang my head against the wall explaining it to her. So I'm going to support her in the state she is in, no more, no less, and at the same time only offer support to the extent that I am mentally and emotionally able (not to mention able to within the constraints of my other obligations right now.)


I don't see this getting better. Which is hard. Because I see only three results that can come of her current trajectory.


1.) Long-term commitment to a psychiatric facility.
2.) Back to prison.
3.) Death.


Working my NarAnon program, I have to have faith that there's some greater will than my own that's capable of stopping those three things from happening. I also have to take on faith that one of those three results might be inevitable (the third, obviously, is for all of us, but I think you understand that I'm not talking about the kind of death where you get old and your body breaks down and you lie there with family and friends at your side comforting you in your final moments. What I'm talking about is a kind of death that nobody deserves to experience. There isn't even the illusion that you are not alone in those final moments.)


Anyway...if you're the praying sort, she could use that. If not....positive thoughts? Good vibes? Something? I'd appreciate that.


My issue with Dee is not a lack of love. My issue with Dee is that I'm not going to break my back anymore for someone who doesn't want to better themselves. I have compassion. But I can't go back to being an enabler, because at this point I know what that looks like and I know the games she plays when she wants to manipulate someone or something.


-Eric
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:05 PM
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Don't threaten me with a good time


Without venturing too far off-topic, while I'll stop short of saying that Dee's life story is about to become a book, when I spoke with my author friend and mentioned where she did her time and some of her traits, he kind of raised an eyebrow and took a bit of interest. He'd like to speak with her, though.....normally I wouldn't recommend this, but given that he's written books about "Clark Rockefeller" (Christian Karl Gerhartsreiter....the book is called "Name Dropper" and involves an identity-creating psychopath) and John Orr (the fire investigator who turned out to be a serial arsonist,) he does have a bit of experience dealing with that sort... I'm just not sure that this is the best time to speak to Dee. (Or to write a book.)


If I did write a book, it would have to be more expansive than a simple biographic sketch because it would include interactions with several other women who served time and a couple side-plots involving a certain type of man that she tended to attract into her life (the type that isn't me...the type of man that no sane woman would want to be around...)


I'll drop one tidbit that I shared with Frank Girardot, and that's in regard to now-three times recommended for parole (twice rejected by Governor Brown, no word yet on what Governor Newsom will do when he's presented with the case) Manson Family member Leslie Van Houten. Dee told a great story about how LVH is a "bitch" and that she "hopes she never gets parole." But her rationale has nothing to do with time served, rehabilitation, anything like that....no. Van Houten was mean to Dee in the laundry room and wouldn't give her an extra blanket. (Apparently LVH is notoriously stand-offish with inmates she doesn't know and trust and "can spot a bullshitter a mile away...." you figure with 40+ years in prison she's seen and heard it all as far as people tryin to get one over on her.....) And for that reason, she hopes LVH rots.


We had a good chuckle over that one.....


Then there's the time that Jillian Cini, who's made a couple of different lists of "hot female felons" over the years (including this one) texted me from a contraband cell phone asking for $100. I told her "that's sweet Jillian, but I know who you are and I don't want to get shot in any hotel parking lots like your last boyfriend."


I need to sit down and really outline the incidents and the post-prison revelations. Part of the problem in staying silent is that some of the stories are so interesting that it almost seems a shame to NOT tell them.



(It's this sort of insanity that I have to go back and re-process that has me considering the book, just so we're clear.)


-Eric
Well, being that I've done a lot of time at CIW, I have to agree with her about LVH actually I never liked any of them. They all felt they were above everyone else. But, I didn't in their circles so didn't have a lot of contact with them. I started doing my time there back in the 70's until the 90's then I was either in Chowchilla or CRC. Was up in Avenal when they sent us up there for a minute. But, I'm sorry that you weren't through what you did with her. It's sad but I have faith in you that you'll come out of this on top. You don't sound like things can keep you down for long. I've read a lot of your post and you've got a lot going on for yourself.
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:05 PM
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Well, being that I've done a lot of time at CIW, I have to agree with her about LVH actually I never liked any of them. They all felt they were above everyone else. But, I didn't in their circles so didn't have a lot of contact with them. I started doing my time there back in the 70's until the 90's then I was either in Chowchilla or CRC. Was up in Avenal when they sent us up there for a minute. But, I'm sorry that you weren't through what you did with her. It's sad but I have faith in you that you'll come out of this on top. You don't sound like things can keep you down for long. I've read a lot of your post and you've got a lot going on for yourself.

Another one of my friends who wound up in Fire Camp said that LVH was involved with some element of working with the girls who were training to go up to camp from CIW (since LVH's status as a lifer prevents her from serving time in a Fire Camp, this is as close as she'd be able to get to a program like that.) She was the one who gave me additional perspective on her and some thoughts that were a little less negative, although she did say that she did notice that if you were not in with LVH's circle that she was very stand-offish and that she only warmed up to the fire camp girls over time. That said, I'm sure that dealing with her in GenPop is not the most pleasant experience. I'd read quite a bit about her over the years (she developed a penpal friendship with director John Watters who wrote a pretty lengthy piece about her.) Personally, I'd prefer that nobody involved with the Manson stuff get out. But LVH is the one who worries me the least. Squeaky Fromme's the one who I think freaks me out the most....hopefully she's aged out of the worst of her behaviors, but the idea that she's in the world, even if on Federal Parole, doesn't set well with me.....


Anyway, I digress. Thanks for the thoughts. I don't intend to let Dee's negative outcomes lead me into negative outcomes of my own at this phase. My biggest obstacle with her at this point is maintaining boundaries and my internal struggle between how much to let go and some of my own morality regarding people in her situation (sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell, that sort of thing.)


-Eric
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:34 AM
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Yes she did train the girls getting ready to go to Fire Camp, I was endorsed there back in the early 90's but ended up in SHU for refusing to go. I had no use for it plus I guess they didn't understand I had long rabbit in me, the camps had no fences during that time. Anyways after a short visit in SHU the I ended up staying at CIW and went into the drug program when it first opened up. Not that I allowed it to do me any good at that time. Lol but I did learn some things just chose not use it. I'm glad for you E. Stay on your path that your on, it took me until my husband passed away to get it and to get straight. I miss working in the field of Addiction, it had its rewards but it also could burn you it really quick if you let it. Write that book someday,I truly believe you have a lot to offer and valuable insight to give.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:02 PM
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Hi, I was wondering if you’d like to tell us about some of Dee’s good qualities, things that made you love her. It just seems I’ve always read about her struggles and failings, which is understandable since struggles seem to take priority when dealing with someone addicted. I do understand if you’re not up to doing that right now.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:27 PM
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Hi, I was wondering if you’d like to tell us about some of Dee’s good qualities, things that made you love her. It just seems I’ve always read about her struggles and failings, which is understandable since struggles seem to take priority when dealing with someone addicted. I do understand if you’re not up to doing that right now.
If you dig further back into my post history, they’re there. Right at this present time there is not much positive to write.

-Eric
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