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CDCR - What You Need to Know Information relating to the California Department of Corrections & Rehabilitation. Q&A for those new to the CDCR system should be posted here.

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  #76  
Old 05-12-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mosh-Polish View Post
So basically if youre a snitch or a gang drop out youre ok, but if you are somehow a sex offender or someone with multiple sentences after for unrelated things (second striker or what have you) than you cant go to a yard like that?
This thread is about a new program where mainline inmates are integrated into SNY. People go to SNY for a myriad of reasons-- all pertaining to their safety. Former gang members, medically frail, aged, charges that make them targets, they're already on the yard being filled with mainline inmates. This is why people are fearful for their loved ones when they flip a yard to 50/50.

What we've been told is that the mainline inmates are selected based on their record of behaviour and ability to be housed with inmates with higher needs. This is happening at Levels 1 and 2, though I believe 3's are getting a hard look.

There are going to be mixed results. The part that doesn't sit well with me is that neither the mainline nor the SNY inmates have any choice in the matter. Refusal can lead to disciplinary action. But the flipside is, there are plenty of mainline inmates who would like to get out of mainline but don't because of the stigma attached to SNY. This gives them an opportunity to be "forced".

My husband is SNY and does not want to be on a 50/50 yard. He isn't fearful of being hurt but he doesn't want the drama that mainline tends to bring with it. He's trying to go home and he's doing well. If a mainline inmate decides to act out because they don't want to be there, he doesn't want to get caught up in that, especially when it had nothing to do with him and he had no choice.
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  #77  
Old 05-12-2018, 11:10 AM
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This thread is about a new program where mainline inmates are integrated into SNY. People go to SNY for a myriad of reasons-- all pertaining to their safety. Former gang members, medically frail, aged, charges that make them targets, they're already on the yard being filled with mainline inmates. This is why people are fearful for their loved ones when they flip a yard to 50/50.

What we've been told is that the mainline inmates are selected based on their record of behaviour and ability to be housed with inmates with higher needs. This is happening at Levels 1 and 2, though I believe 3's are getting a hard look.

There are going to be mixed results. The part that doesn't sit well with me is that neither the mainline nor the SNY inmates have any choice in the matter. Refusal can lead to disciplinary action. But the flipside is, there are plenty of mainline inmates who would like to get out of mainline but don't because of the stigma attached to SNY. This gives them an opportunity to be "forced".

My husband is SNY and does not want to be on a 50/50 yard. He isn't fearful of being hurt but he doesn't want the drama that mainline tends to bring with it. He's trying to go home and he's doing well. If a mainline inmate decides to act out because they don't want to be there, he doesn't want to get caught up in that, especially when it had nothing to do with him and he had no choice.


Thank you for the info Mia, .. itís much appreciated. Iím not quiet sure if GP inmates are being forced per se, .. my sonís father told me that committee said he didnít have to and that their would be no disciplinary action if he choose not to take part in the integrated yard. He actually decided to ďtake part in itĒ because it benefited him in the sense that heíd be on a lower level yard, .. leading to more liberties, if we could put it at that.

My sonís father was on a yard that consisted of two ďwell established gangsĒ programming together, it was a minimum security yard. There wasnít much drama, .. very few times was there any real drama between the gangs. I guess all we could hope for is that these integrated yards chose to do the same!!
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  #78  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:01 PM
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Iím not quiet sure if GP inmates are being forced per se, .. my sonís father told me that committee said he didnít have to and that their would be no disciplinary action if he choose not to take part in the integrated yard.

This is interesting! While I'm glad to hear that's what is happening, I'm concerned that CDCR policy makes that a subjective situation with some being disciplined and others not. That will breed resentment as it has in every other subjective policy. I've posted the CDC memo below and will attach the policy line to this post.



To be clear: I'm against discipline in this case, but if they're going to do it, be solid about it so people know where their options are.
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:47 PM
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Not very clear. EDYJO's comments are consistent with what I heard about how it was handled at CHCF over the last year or so. CDCR was supposedly slow leaking this to 1 and 2 yards only (for now) and inmates supposedly had a choice in the matter.

MIA's post with the CDCR memo attached sounds onerous - like they will allow counselors / committee to almost force inmates to accept or face discipline. And we have postings that sound consistent with that.

I am not so against the integrated yards concept but against implementation that mandates rather than it being optional.
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:00 PM
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Not very clear. EDYJO's comments are consistent with what I heard about how it was handled at CHCF over the last year or so. CDCR was supposedly slow leaking this to 1 and 2 yards only (for now) and inmates supposedly had a choice in the matter.

MIA's post with the CDCR memo attached sounds onerous - like they will allow counselors / committee to almost force inmates to accept or face discipline. And we have postings that sound consistent with that.

I am not so against the integrated yards concept but against implementation that mandates rather than it being optional.


I apologize if the information Iíve given is incorrect. I only meant to share what my sonís father has mentioned to me in regards to the situation. He himself was not forced to participate in this integrated yard, .. he accepted to participate after he was told there would be no disciplinary actions taken against him. For him, .. it just made it easier because heíd be in a minimum security level yard! I havenít spoke to him in a few days but last time he told me it was running smoothly. Most people just want to do their time and get home, according to him!
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:03 PM
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I apologize if the information I’ve given is incorrect. I only meant to share what my son’s father has mentioned to me in regards to the situation. He himself was not forced to participate in this integrated yard, .. he accepted to participate after he was told there would be no disciplinary actions taken against him. For him, .. it just made it easier because he’d be in a minimum security level yard! I haven’t spoke to him in a few days but last time he told me it was running smoothly. Most people just want to do their time and get home, according to him!
I don't think it's incorrect, at all. In fact it sounds like the more common experience which is good! It's only unfortunate that the written policy doesn't reflect what they're actually doing. It allows too much room for unequal application of procedures.

My husband accepted a level drop, as well, so I know exactly how you feel. It was scary at first but I'm so glad he did it.
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  #82  
Old 05-12-2018, 09:11 PM
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I don't think it's incorrect, at all. In fact it sounds like the more common experience which is good! It's only unfortunate that the written policy doesn't reflect what they're actually doing. It allows too much room for unequal application of procedures.

My husband accepted a level drop, as well, so I know exactly how you feel. It was scary at first but I'm so glad he did it.


phew, I was thinking maybe I was giving inaccurate information. I was a little worried. I think CDCR chooses when they want to and donít want to apply certain policies. Back late last year, .. my sonís father and another fella went on for a parole hearing. Both had the same charges, completed the same programs and had about the same time left. One was granted parole while the other was denied. 🤷🏻*♀️

My sonís father prefers these minimum security yards much more because he says it makes it a little easier to do the time than when heís confined in a cell. Iím glad itís working out for your husband chica!
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  #83  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:45 AM
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So... my hubby came home a few months ago after 11.5 years, most of his time level 4/SHU he is GP. Here is what he said... There are so many more opportunities now to program even on level 4, than there ever was, and more lifers going home than ever before so this is just a new way for the CO's to have job security. They are saying that the guys that refuse will get sent to the hole, or lose privileges but the majority aren't going to agree to go to a mixed yard so obviously they will lose good time or opportunities to program which would get them time off. If you do go and you don't get off the yard immediately like in 24 hours, you will be considered no good. The only way to get off the yard that quick is to fight/stab someone so there's another way to add more time. And like my husband said, when you call someone a gang dropout there are a couple reason, but most of the time these guys "dropped out" because they couldn't pay their drug debts and didn't want to get stabbed. So they rolled it up and anyone who rolls it up is automatically considered a snitch because you have to debrief to go to SNY. Hubby says these guys would have gotten stabbed on the mainline and if anyone sees them on a mixed yard that is not gonna change and will happen even more because not only do they owe but they told too. He said all he sees is a lot of violence and lawsuit if they try this on higher level yards (3-4) CDCR never thinks things thru.
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:38 PM
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And like my husband said, when you call someone a gang dropout there are a couple reason, but most of the time these guys "dropped out" because they couldn't pay their drug debts and didn't want to get stabbed. So they rolled it up and anyone who rolls it up is automatically considered a snitch because you have to debrief to go to SNY.
Meh. I can't say I agree with this. Sure, debt is one reason, but mine has been SNY for 7 years now, did 9 on mainline, and he is a gang dropout as are most of the guys he associates with the last two prisons. Successful SNY are full of true dropouts. They support one another with moving past the thinking and indoctrination that happens when you grow up that way. There are active gang members on SNY so it's obviously not all, but I wouldn't agree with "most".
As far as debriefing goes-- you don't have to do anything. That's part of the process, but there's no rule that says you have give up information on anyone but yourself.
Mainline has a real chip on its shoulder regarding SNY, which I find ironic given that CDC is bursting at the seams with folks wanting to flip and quit the game. It's easier to assume they're all snitches and sex offenders rather than guys who just grew up and decided to stop messing with programs that landed them back in the same mix that put them there to begin with.

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Old 05-14-2018, 02:43 PM
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Meh. I can't say I agree with this. Sure, debt is one reason, but mine has been SNY for 7 years now, did 9 on mainline, and he is a gang dropout as are most of the guys he associates with the last two prisons. Successful SNY are full of true dropouts. They support one another with moving past the thinking and indoctrination that happens when you grow up that way. There are active gang members on SNY so it's obviously not all, but I wouldn't agree with "most".
As far as debriefing goes-- you don't have to do anything. That's part of the process, but there's no rule that says you have give up information on anyone but yourself.
Mainline has a real chip on its shoulder regarding SNY, which I find ironic given that CDC is bursting at the seams with folks wanting to flip and quit the game. It's easier to assume they're all snitches and sex offenders rather than guys who just grew up and decided to stop messing with programs that landed them back in the same mix that put them there to begin with.
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  #86  
Old 05-14-2018, 02:55 PM
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Meh. I can't say I agree with this. Sure, debt is one reason, but mine has been SNY for 7 years now, did 9 on mainline, and he is a gang dropout as are most of the guys he associates with the last two prisons. Successful SNY are full of true dropouts. They support one another with moving past the thinking and indoctrination that happens when you grow up that way. There are active gang members on SNY so it's obviously not all, but I wouldn't agree with "most".
As far as debriefing goes-- you don't have to do anything. That's part of the process, but there's no rule that says you have give up information on anyone but yourself.
Mainline has a real chip on its shoulder regarding SNY, which I find ironic given that CDC is bursting at the seams with folks wanting to flip and quit the game. It's easier to assume they're all snitches and sex offenders rather than guys who just grew up and decided to stop messing with programs that landed them back in the same mix that put them there to begin with.


Mia, ..

You absolutely nailed it. I was thinking about how to reply back to that comment but couldnít muster up a good response without being very well ... My sonís father is not SNY, .. he is GP. Heís absolutely not perfect and still stumbles very much really but I like his perspective on programming with everyone. He sees most of those fellas as people that simply wanted a change and didnít want all the drama, .. drama is everywhere but not so much like over on GP. Back when he initially went in he couldnít fathom to program with rivalry gang members .. it really didnít make sense to me. He no longer ďparticipatedĒ or really considered himself An active gang member yet he still had ill feelings for these people. Well .. time went by and he ended up programming with these people and he found out they have so much more in common than he and they thought. Both bled red when they cut thenselves, .. crazy he really didnít know that lol. Anywho, he said he hopes it runs just as smoothly in this integrated yard, his motto is, ďWe both bleed red when we cut ourselves, Iím no better nor are they, weíre both on a journey to get back home.Ē

I hope one day the negativity thatís perceived of SNY yards fades!
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:59 PM
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That makes a lot of sense....I don't think mainline has a good grasp on SNY or why people go there and I also think a lot of them have the attitude that you can be on gp and not be all in the politics which isn't entirely true. This was just his perspective definitely not mine. I don't know much about SNY only what I hear. So its good to get the perspective of others.
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Meh. I can't say I agree with this. Sure, debt is one reason, but mine has been SNY for 7 years now, did 9 on mainline, and he is a gang dropout as are most of the guys he associates with the last two prisons. Successful SNY are full of true dropouts. They support one another with moving past the thinking and indoctrination that happens when you grow up that way. There are active gang members on SNY so it's obviously not all, but I wouldn't agree with "most".
As far as debriefing goes-- you don't have to do anything. That's part of the process, but there's no rule that says you have give up information on anyone but yourself.
Mainline has a real chip on its shoulder regarding SNY, which I find ironic given that CDC is bursting at the seams with folks wanting to flip and quit the game. It's easier to assume they're all snitches and sex offenders rather than guys who just grew up and decided to stop messing with programs that landed them back in the same mix that put them there to begin with.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:09 PM
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Hopefully no one got offended by my comment because it wasn't my intention I just thought his perspective about it being a way to make people do more time was interesting. We came from Centinela where drugs are everywhere. It seemed like every week there were stabbings over debts and people leaving to SNY for that reason as well, so I think he was basing his thoughts off of that. He was in prison/county from 18-31 so he basically grew up in there and you're right on the mainline they hammer it into them that SNY is bad, but like you said that population has steadily increased throughout the years. I remember when a SNY yard was rare now there are whole prisons that are completely SNY so that must mean something.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:19 PM
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I completely agree with you... They GREW up and wanted real change. I applaud all the men who have made this decision, it's not an easy one but it's for the best...

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Meh. I can't say I agree with this. Sure, debt is one reason, but mine has been SNY for 7 years now, did 9 on mainline, and he is a gang dropout as are most of the guys he associates with the last two prisons. Successful SNY are full of true dropouts. They support one another with moving past the thinking and indoctrination that happens when you grow up that way. There are active gang members on SNY so it's obviously not all, but I wouldn't agree with "most".
As far as debriefing goes-- you don't have to do anything. That's part of the process, but there's no rule that says you have give up information on anyone but yourself.
Mainline has a real chip on its shoulder regarding SNY, which I find ironic given that CDC is bursting at the seams with folks wanting to flip and quit the game. It's easier to assume they're all snitches and sex offenders rather than guys who just grew up and decided to stop messing with programs that landed them back in the same mix that put them there to begin with.
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:34 PM
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Hopefully no one got offended by my comment because it wasn't my intention I just thought his perspective about it being a way to make people do more time was interesting.
Not in the slightest. His perspective having lived it is valuable. I appreciate hearing what he says. Helps me understand. If we are interested in helping them we need to hear from people like your husband.
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:49 PM
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I apologize if the information Iíve given is incorrect. I only meant to share what my sonís father has mentioned to me in regards to the situation
Please don't apologise. What's not clear is cdcr and how they are implementing. At least their printed word compared to their apparent actions. Your son's father comments I'm sure are valid. Other poster comments share different experience and I'm sure valid also.

I'm not commenting on clarity of anyone but clarity of exactly what cdcr is doing with this program
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:56 PM
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Hopefully no one got offended by my comment because it wasn't my intention I just thought his perspective about it being a way to make people do more time was interesting.

Not at all. With all the respect I give to the good COs, CDC as a whole has a business mind just like any other profit seeking entity. In other words, I don't trust 'em. When Prop 57 passed one of the first things the skeptics asked was "How will this blow back on the inmates?". We're seeing it in increased write-ups, attempts to change sentencing laws. So no, no offense taken. CDC knows their 'customer base' and they'll exploit that to the fullest. I don't doubt what you say at all.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:07 PM
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Back when he initially went in he couldn’t fathom to program with rivalry gang members .. it really didn’t make sense to me. He no longer “participated” or really considered himself An active gang member yet he still had ill feelings for these people. Well .. time went by and he ended up programming with these people and he found out they have so much more in common than he and they thought.
This made me laugh even though I know it wasn't meant to be funny. You just reminded me of something. My husband is Mexican and we all know racial politics inside. Well, five years after going SNY, my husband is rolling with program, doing really well, insight like nobody's business, gets along with everyone a person could get along with. During a visit, he's telling me about this cake he bought off the tier. And he keeps mentioning that the guy is black. I'm wondering why this matters (fwiw...I'm white, grew up soooo far outside of this world I can't even imagine).
So finally I asked-- why do you keep telling me he's black? And he pops back: It's the first time since I've come to prison that I've eaten food from a black person!!

Ha!! Apparently it was such a habit to separate, he just continued it on SNY without even thinking. This guy kept coming by his cell, telling about his cake, asking him if he wanted any. Finally he bought some and it was a game changer. He realized how stupid it was that he kept refusing, he didn't dislike the man, they'd never had a falling out, and it was some damn good cake. LOL


It just goes to show how deep those lessons are and how it takes conscious effort to undo. I have a lot of respect for folks who walk away from a lifetime of training that is no longer serving them. It's not an easy way out at all.
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:23 AM
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Question State issued transfer list/lie??

My husband and 40 other inmates were told that they were on a state issued list to be transferred out. No hardships were being honored. No real reason is being given. These inmates are being transferred 12 hours away no exceptions. The prisons they are going to are 163% and 125% over capacity. I was told that yards are being integrated and if the inmates feel unsafe and cant program they can roll it up. Northerners are being so far south they will have no choice but to go to the hole. They also are not going to gp yards they are going to sny yards. According to cdcr public documents they are violating their own regulations and codes as well as the civil rights and due process of the inmates. Corcoran state prison has said that it had no choice but these two prisons. That their hands are tied. Any explanation i have received has not made sense to the documents on file that are public and legal. There are no amended laws anywhere that allow this either.

The cdcr told these inmates to transpack yesterday, after the inmates were told transfers were stopped. They were then moved to the hole. Since the families found out to late if at all that their loved ones were in the hole no visits are being allowed so that children and loved ones can see them.

There is no public notice of this transfer. Nothing can be found. I have talked with many inmates and families and it has never been heard of that a transfer is done in this manner and this shady and never this quickly.

Has anyone heard of transfers like this? These families have been trying to have this stopped, get the media to pick up the story and find an attorney to represent these men and their families.

Any info that could help is very appreciated as well as any support and prayers. These men are being jeopardized knowingly. They are pawns in the cdcr's chess game. This is a state wide transfer that is starting. California people just payed millions to have the prisons segregated and now the cdcr has decided they want everyone to play nice in the sandbox. Really?

I want to know how many people who make over 75,000 or more a year to sit around a table and come up with such a dumb and irresponsible decision?? I think most would want that job if playing god with peoples lives is allowed without consequences.

We are being told to think and stay positive as well as encourage our loved ones to go with the flow. I wish the cdcr would take their loved ones, give them no choice, play god with their lives, rip their families apart, more so then what we are, and then tell their loved ones to smile and be a big ball of sunshine. I would love to see the head of the cdcr the governor and the secretary of state do what they are making these men do
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:10 PM
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I was told that yards are being integrated and if the inmates feel unsafe and cant program they can roll it up.
I've moved your post the thread we've been using to discuss Integrated Yards. They have been happening for a little while.
To the best of my knowledge, Title 15 allows them to move inmates virtually anywhere and anytime provided they can justify it, internally, for safety, security and programming needs. They are not required to honor hardship requests nor post notification of moves. In fact, lengthy notifications are rare due to safety concerns. In this case, they are implementing a new type of yard.

I'm not in any way saying I agree nor think you're unjustified in your upset. I'm just trying to show that in the bigger picture, this isn't a new development and they've written their operations manual to cover themselves for such events.

You can see by the posts below that the application of moves has been handled in a myriad of ways. That's classic CDCR and very frustrating.

Last edited by miamac; 05-19-2018 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 05-19-2018, 02:27 PM
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My husband and a group of other inmates are on a state issued list getting shipped out very far from home. Hardships are not being honored. They are being shipped out to sny yards. The other prison close by just got a transfer of 35 sny inmates and yes as his councilor told me and the pio at the prison as well as the offices i contacted within the cdcr integration is what is wanted. The cdcr is doing this state wide shuffle of inmates to solve the overpopulation problem i was told. Any inmate that does not want to program or finds that he cant has the choice of going into protected custody i was informed. All due process at where my husband was as well as the cdcr's own regulations and codes on transfers are in violation. This prison gave them one hour to transpack, now theyare all in the hole until transfer and the families cannot see them because this prison made sure that was impossible. No visits were being taken for the hole by the time i and other families found out and no exceptions were being made
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:07 PM
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My husband and a group of other inmates are on a state issued list getting shipped out very far from home. Hardships are not being honored. They are being shipped out to sny yards. The other prison close by just got a transfer of 35 sny inmates and yes as his councilor told me and the pio at the prison as well as the offices i contacted within the cdcr integration is what is wanted. The cdcr is doing this state wide shuffle of inmates to solve the overpopulation problem i was told. Any inmate that does not want to program or finds that he cant has the choice of going into protected custody i was informed. All due process at where my husband was as well as the cdcr's own regulations and codes on transfers are in violation. This prison gave them one hour to transpack, now theyare all in the hole until transfer and the families cannot see them because this prison made sure that was impossible. No visits were being taken for the hole by the time i and other families found out and no exceptions were being made
I moved your original post regarding this to this thread, so it and my response are below. If you scroll to post one, you can see that this has been happening for a while. There are a few posts with memos attached that give you an explanation of the process. Here, here, and here.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:04 PM
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Well today Mulecreek received 30 GP and 21 of those are being integrated in to one yard and the other 9 in to another yard all level 1. It’s almost like they put them all in one place to set off the possible riot all at once. My husbands section has 7 empty beds ad 5 occupied beds from the existing population. Tomorrow they send out 30 any guys to Folosom( old and new) San Quintin. This extremely dangerous and stressful for both aides of the coin. What is sad is the guys just want to do their time, about 99% of the guys on the level 1 are drop out... they left that life and are done with politics. Now they have to resort back to having to program like when they were active just to protect them selves. How is that a rehabilitation? My husband was in CHCF when they started to integrating the 50/50, he was given a choice to transfer; which he did, he moved to CRC.After 17 years of being active on the mainline my husband DO, he was tired of politics and having to do what could put him I. Risk of picking up more time. My husband dropped levels and was told he had to move from CRC since he was now sny and a level 1. My husband requested chuck (level 1 /sny) he was denied and move way up to Mulecreek. Now he is at Mulecreek and now they are integrating, it’s a set up and they are playing with peoples freedom and safety. CDCR knows exactly what they are doing. I suppose they are doing this because they rather keep people encarcerated vs letting them go. Time is served for so many but they keep slapping them with more, this is all their doing.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:13 PM
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Well today Mulecreek received 30 GP and 21 of those are being integrated in to one yard and the other 9 in to another yard all level 1. Itís almost like they put them all in one place to set off the possible riot all at once. My husbands section has 7 empty beds ad 5 occupied beds from the existing population. Tomorrow they send out 30 any guys to Folosom( old and new) San Quintin. This extremely dangerous and stressful for both aides of the coin. What is sad is the guys just want to do their time, about 99% of the guys on the level 1 are drop out... they left that life and are done with politics. Now they have to resort back to having to program like when they were active just to protect them selves. How is that a rehabilitation? My husband was in CHCF when they started to integrating the 50/50, he was given a choice to transfer; which he did, he moved to CRC.After 17 years of being active on the mainline my husband DO, he was tired of politics and having to do what could put him I. Risk of picking up more time. My husband dropped levels and was told he had to move from CRC since he was now sny and a level 1. My husband requested chuck (level 1 /sny) he was denied and move way up to Mulecreek. Now he is at Mulecreek and now they are integrating, itís a set up and they are playing with peoples freedom and safety. CDCR knows exactly what they are doing. I suppose they are doing this because they rather keep people encarcerated vs letting them go. Time is served for so many but they keep slapping them with more, this is all their doing.


The sny guys they are sending to Folsom and San Quentin are what level please?
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:17 PM
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Level 1. Right now they are only moving the lower levels. Itís sad, these guys just want to do their time
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