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  #1  
Old 04-14-2004, 01:55 PM
lizzi0067 lizzi0067 is offline
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Default Inmate Marriage-Illinois

I recieved some info today from a friend about an inmates right to marry.
I'll post what I've got. Dont know if it can help anyone. Yes, I realise the domino effect it can have on loved ones if the issue is pressed-but when the time is right, maybe this will help.

There is a constitutional right to marry.
See Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 US Reports pg. 374 at 383-86
Regulations that unduly restrict an inmates right to marry are unlawful.

See Turner v. Safly, Vol. 107 US Supreme Court Reporters pg. 2254 (1987).

Was told to:
Check for statutes on marriage that require the license.......
anything that obligates the office to process it etc......

Advise those concerned that they need to file for "Mandamus Relief" under the Ill. Mandamus Act for an order commanding the person to live up to his/HER responsibility.
Check "Ill. Compiled Statutes" and "Ill. Andinistrative Code and Tile I Ill. Adm. Code".

So-I may take a trip to the law library to check these things out and see what I can find.

L
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Old 04-14-2004, 02:39 PM
Rostonhall Rostonhall is offline
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This has all been quoted by me until I'm blue in the face. I'm afraid there's nothing new there and, unfortunately, we know from bitter experience that to file anything against the Department of Corrections only means trouble for the inmate. BKs Lady is trying to file a lawsuit to marry her man in Stateville, but she's having every obstacle under the sun thrown at her, and they're making life really unpleasant for them both.

It's all OK in theory but in practice it just doesn't happen. I've tried everything under the sun, including telling Springfield last June that I was prepared to go to court over this. Within hours of that Tony was taken to seg on the first bogus ticket. I left it for a few months and then the Tribune article came out, straight away the pressure was put on Tony and everyone knows that that led to, and then this unlawful stint in seg.

I know you're trying to help but be very careful, you could be making trouble for the inmate.

Rose
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Old 04-14-2004, 05:13 PM
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You are absolutely right Rose. My husband (as you know we are not married legally) has been treated very poorly because of this. He has filed and filed his grievances, doing exactly what he is supposed to do, and low and behold, someone always manages to misplace something up the ladder, so he has to refile. We know about the mandamus stuff, but everytime he files, paperwork is lost. GEEEEEEE I wonder why!!! Let me tell you why..............They DONT want anyone married to inmates that are in the state of Illinois, ESPECIALLY those inmates who used to be on the ROW. I talk about the Max Security prisons, such as Stateville, Menard, Pontiac. Yes, it is (against the inmates and those of us on the outside) constitutional rights to stop us from marrying, but there is not one person that will help us fight. I don't mean the average layman, I mean those in Politcal Office. They just dont give a damn. Will my fiance and I stop fighting this? Absolutely not, but it really is a shame that those who run the prisons and those of the cloth in the prisons have the positions they do. I hope one day they are in the postions that we are in where they have someone behind the walls..I'd like to see how they would be!!!!!
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Old 04-14-2004, 05:31 PM
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You can get married over the phone, it's called marriage by proxy. That's what me and my boyfriend are going to do. He's at Menard. I know its not the most romantic way to marry, but if you hire someone to marry the two of you, then you can do it on speaker phone. Some guy at Menard got married that way and told my boyfriend about it. It appears this is going to have to be the route we will take. Anyone else heard of this?
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Old 04-14-2004, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzi0067
I recieved some info today from a friend about an inmates right to marry.
I'll post what I've got. Dont know if it can help anyone. Yes, I realise the domino effect it can have on loved ones if the issue is pressed-but when the time is right, maybe this will help.

There is a constitutional right to marry.
See Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 US Reports pg. 374 at 383-86
Regulations that unduly restrict an inmates right to marry are unlawful.

See Turner v. Safly, Vol. 107 US Supreme Court Reporters pg. 2254 (1987).

Was told to:
Check for statutes on marriage that require the license.......
anything that obligates the office to process it etc......

Advise those concerned that they need to file for "Mandamus Relief" under the Ill. Mandamus Act for an order commanding the person to live up to his/HER responsibility.
Check "Ill. Compiled Statutes" and "Ill. Andinistrative Code and Tile I Ill. Adm. Code".

So-I may take a trip to the law library to check these things out and see what I can find.

L
Keep me posted on what you find out
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  #6  
Old 04-15-2004, 12:20 AM
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It does not have to do with not wanting inmates to marry. The clerks do not feel safe as they say going to the prisons to have the men/women fill out the paper work. But with the new Chaplain I believe he will look into this and work on it.
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April 11th our 8 years of marriage
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:00 AM
Rostonhall Rostonhall is offline
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Tony girl, the ONLY county in Illinois where the clerk isn't going to the prisons is Randolph and, although she (the Clerk) has given the reason being as safety once she realized comments were going to be published, her original reason, given to me by the Chaplain of Menard very early last year, is that she 'won't waste taxpayers money on convicts.' And, when I phoned her in March last year she told me much the same, but she was gracious enough to leave the 'convicts' bit off, saying instead that she 'couldn't justify using taxpayers money going to the prison.'

Those of us who have tried everything under the sun, including offering to pay ALL the costs involved, know it has EVERYTHING to do with not wanting inmates in certain establishments to marry.

Rose
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:12 AM
Rostonhall Rostonhall is offline
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gobanana,

You have to be very, very careful going down this route as to get married the inmate MUST have the permission of the warden. McAdory at Menard is not the most receptive to this marriage thing and, if he wanted, he could solve the problem tomorrow. If you marry without the permission of the prison, and it takes the signatures of around 6 prison officials on the application to marry form, then you risk breaking one of the rules that states the inmate isn't allowed to entre into any contracts. Do this and you'll end up being banned from cisits and your 'husband' will be out in segregation for a very long time. And, as you will be doing it over the phone, proxy marriages aren't allowed in the state of Illinois. If you were to go to a state where they are performed then, perhaps, you might be OK but within Illinois, over a phone line, it wouldn't be legal. Believe me, some of us have been going through this for a very long time and have looked at EVERY angle, checked all the facts and are still waiting to marry.

You would do well to check all the threads on this to see what we have done, and I'm talking about Menard here, not another maximum prison.

Rose
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:00 AM
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Sorry if I sound a bit overpowering on this issues but today I should have been married for a year, it was supposed to be our anniversary and I'm feeling a little down because, no matter what I, and others, have done, NOTHING has been resolved and it's taking it's toll!!!

Rose
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Old 04-17-2004, 03:09 PM
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Rose, I am right there with you sister! You dont' sound overpowering, you sound like a woman trying to save others the heartache you have had to endure!
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:07 PM
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I didn't think you were overpowering, I don't blame you for being mad...this is irritating! I like how these jackasses think they can stop us from doing something within our rights when we're paying their salaries. I feel the need to throw a brick through someone's window now.
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Old 04-19-2004, 06:08 PM
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I did too and Im not even one of the ones who wish to marry! Ive just got a dig and investigate type of persona, exspecially when theres ground to stand on-but with the IDOC, they tend to change the dirt to cement if you try to move the ground. And then surround you in it. So........
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Old 04-19-2004, 06:27 PM
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So all that means to me is that your feet are firmly planted. LOL

I know this issue is a touchy one. I am one of those that would like to get married, even though it is not how I ever envisioned my wedding.

I keep telling Roger and I truly believe it. Something has got to give. If they keep taking from these guys we just might have something happen that will mirror Arizona earlier this year. It really scares me.
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Old 04-20-2004, 02:00 AM
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I'm with you all, I know how you feel and I just wish there was something we could do, but I know from bitter experience, they always come up with an excuse, and take it out on our men. That doesn't mean I stop fighting, I just keep quiet about it and chip away, slowly.

With things that are happening at Menard I have to agree with you, Roger's Girl, something will give and I'm not so sure it will be good. I've started sending notice of everything that happens to the press, just in case there's ever any trouble,they can look at what's gone on before and come to their own conclusions.

Rose
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Last edited by Rostonhall; 04-20-2004 at 02:02 AM..
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Old 04-24-2004, 04:07 PM
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It isn't true about the only county not going into the prison is Randolph. They don't in Brown county either and not in Rock Island County. I know I have been checking into it and they don't do it. Most counties are not going in because of insurance and legal issues, but no one is able to challenge it because I am afraid if you make the wrong person mad that not only will they start doing petty stuff to your man, but I have a feeling they may do worse. I put nothing out of the hands of the people in charge. I am sorry but I would rather be with Ron alive then mourn and still fight after his death and we all know there are "accidental" deaths that occur every year and no one even blinks about it and if you fight after that then they make you look like some lunatic who lost someone who was a criminal and bring up every nasty thing they can and make up the rest if they have to. No court will touch it.
Jamie and Ron
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Old 04-24-2004, 04:43 PM
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Thanks for putting me straight on that, I was taking my info form the Tribune article, and from IDOC themselves, who both say it's only Randolph. IDOC gives other excuses for marriages not taking place in other prisons. And I know, probably more than most, just what happens when you start to push on this issue, and it's certainly not anything petty. The article in the Tribune is one of the reasons Tony's in seg right now. it causes the vendetta to be stepped up. This is the reason most of us at Menard have given up trying.

Rose
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Old 04-26-2004, 08:16 PM
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I gave up on getting married for now as well. It would be great to live in a world where if you fight for a just cause that you don't have to worry about the life of the man you love being taken from him. I, for one am very lucky because Ron will be home in 16 months and we will get married then. I pray for all of you who are not as lucky. I also seek justice for you and will continue to search for an answer to get around these people. I still say the answer is in our group, but we just haven't seen it yet. Everyone keep praying because even Jesus was a man imprisoned. Funny how many of the self righteous think so little of a man in prison when our very savior was a man convicted, imprisoned and then sentenced to die for crimes he never committed, but was the savior of all of our souls. This is why I believe that the answer is in the love and compassion we have in this group and within each of our relationships with the men we love. Keep praying and we will find justice eventually.
Jamie and Ron
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Old 04-28-2004, 11:49 AM
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Oh dear, if my marrying Tony is going to rely on my praying then I'd better forget it right now. Haven't done that, or needed to, for more than 40 years and I don't aim to start now!!! Tony accepts that I don't need to have a faith and that's all that matters.

Rose
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:47 PM
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Ok all-so I know what is what-where does Power of Attorney fit in to all this? Has this been explored? Just curious!!!!! Can one go to the clerk and sign on the others behalf if they have this? Then the ceremony takes place. Rose didnt you say you had P of A for Tony. How does that work? What does that give you legal right to accomplish. And does the IDOC even really LOOK at that if it comes to anything medical/health wise? I know their supposed to but .................
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:34 PM
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Well unfortunately the power of attorney is not really recognized by the DOC. They should, yes, but do they do much of anything that they should? NO, Not really! And the clerk's office will not let you sign for this when you have PA, Rose has already tried that. SOrry.
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:41 PM
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I have Tony's total Power of Attorney but there's a clause that says when applying for the marriage licence, even with a P of A, NOBODY can sign for the applicant. Catch 22!!! And, no, IDOC doesn't take any notice of the fact that I have the legal right to sign for EVERYTHING (except marriage!!) for Tony. With his recent problems I couldn't even find out how Tony was, even though I have his P of A and we has me down as his next of kin, and person to be contacted, they wouldn't tell me anything, not even whether he was alive or dead. In fact, I'm still waiting for them to notify me of the 'medical emergency!!'

Rose
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:35 PM
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I talked to my man's cousin today. She got married in IDOC. It was East Moline, about a year ago. She said that they had no problem. That her man talked to the people there, someone from the prison, and all she had to do was go to the clerk, and tell them what the situation was. I don't understand the whole problem. I plan on marrying my man in there, because he couldn't be married in the county jail. I'll call her later on and find out more about it. All I know is that she said it was easy. I'll get more details about it and let everyone know. I appreciate any help that anyone can give me. My man leaves early in the morning, (Thursday) for Statesville.. I think that's his first stop. He got a 2 year sentence, but his lawyer told him that he would be out between 2 and 4 months. Am I going to be able to visit him when he gets to his "permanent" place? I seen that he couldn't have a visit or anything for 30 days, but he was told different. I'll let you know where he's at when I find out. It'll be a little while before I know. I'll let you all know what I find out about his cousin's marriage. *Nikki
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:01 PM
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This really doesnt fit in the marriage category, but I thought you might be interested.

Rose, has Tony filled out paperwork to make you his health care surrogate? It is different from the POA. The POA has the ability to sign his name, but the health care surrogate makes all decisions regarding his health and well being if the time ever came that he could not make the decision on his own. If you want I can mail you or Tony the forms. They dont have to be notorized, but it is worth having. If anything were to happen you might have a legal leg to stand on. Just a thought.
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:57 PM
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I think we need a sticky with all this stuff.....exspecially for the ones who have no other family on the outside and .....well who knows maybe it could make a difference for someone-just not most of us! Crazy - yes. But i never heard about the health care surrogate thing. And damn that still pisses me off that they still did not notify you Rose of his issue. Why do they have to make things so difficult. They'd think different if it was someone close to them damnit. It just seems like they should have to follow their rules as much as we do. State and internal. Its their way or the highway. or the hole in the guys case. Someday.................!
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Old 04-29-2004, 02:37 AM
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Roger'sGirl, I'll PM you with my address. I'd love to get the forms, nobody's telling Tony anything, he's been trying, since my visit, to find out EXACTLY what he has to do to get me some authority. I'll send you the cash for postage, or some stamps, if you need them.

Nikki, this is a problem that seems to affect ALL maximum prisons and there's no was around it. The DOC seem to be letting a handful of people marry in the medium places just so they can say, hand on heart, 'There's no marriage ban in Illinois.'


Liz, that's an excellent idea, all this info would be useful to so many others, and new members as they come along. I wrote to the Director and Warden telling them it was actually illegal to have put Tony in the hole after an attempted suicide but, guess what, he's still there!!

Rose
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