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Death Row & Capital Punishment Discussions Discussions relating to inmates on Death Row / facing capital punishment in the United States and abroad that don't fit into any of the other forums

View Poll Results: death row relationships
the dp sentence shouldn't matter, they still deserve a real relationship 175 76.75%
they are lucky they can get anyone at all and can't demand loyalty 36 15.79%
other, please explain your view 17 7.46%
Voters: 228. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 06-12-2009, 09:01 AM
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Well, Littlewing13,you seem to have nicely summed up the kind of extreme self righteous morality typical of many right wing churchgoers in the US.Yes, its your opinion, and you naturally have the right to state it.But, on analysis,justifying the eventual fate of death row inmates to Gods will is an opinion which is more than a bit shaky by its lack of philosophical logic.Appealing to the concept of God may simply be reaching out to a concept of no certifiable truth, as like many other things of human belief it may simply be an epiphenomenon of human consciousness.Assuming you belong to some Christian oriented church,then your position seems strange. Was not Jesus a victim of the death penalty, tried and convicted by due process of law?Would your lack of compassion for death row inmates be the same for him?
Surely, many of the people on death row are part of the social cycle of violence which is perpetuated, often by factors which appear not to have a direct relation to the situations which result in the mess and misery of death row. Greed, class divisions, poverty, ignorance, religious hatred and bigotry. All of which can set going the endless train of drugs, gangs, and the illusion that it really does not matter if you pull the trigger or whatever.Thinking about it, your appeal to religion is actually not such a sound basis on which to build a system of ethics or justify the punishment of (alleged) criminals(not everyone is guilty as charged).Consider the number of wars and killings that have and are, being waged on the appeal to religious justification.Maybe it is time for people to get down to some genuine humanistic compassion in their dealings with others.And that, to be successful, must be inclusive and equal.
this post is not intended to offend anyone, but is just my point of view

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  #27  
Old 06-12-2009, 09:23 AM
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Not offended at all Elsa - brilliant post!


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Originally Posted by elsapunzi View Post
Well, Littlewing13,you seem to have nicely summed up the kind of extreme self righteous morality typical of many right wing churchgoers in the US.Yes, its your opinion, and you naturally have the right to state it.But, on analysis,justifying the eventual fate of death row inmates to Gods will is an opinion which is more than a bit shaky by its lack of philosophical logic.Appealing to the concept of God may simply be reaching out to a concept of no certifiable truth, as like many other things of human belief it may simply be an epiphenomenon of human consciousness.Assuming you belong to some Christian oriented church,then your position seems strange. Was not Jesus a victim of the death penalty, tried and convicted by due process of law?Would your lack of compassion for death row inmates be the same for him?
Surely, many of the people on death row are part of the social cycle of violence which is perpetuated, often by factors which appear not to have a direct relation to the situations which result in the mess and misery of death row. Greed, class divisions, poverty, ignorance, religious hatred and bigotry. All of which can set going the endless train of drugs, gangs, and the illusion that it really does not matter if you pull the trigger or whatever.Thinking about it, your appeal to religion is actually not such a sound basis on which to build a system of ethics or justify the punishment of (alleged) criminals(not everyone is guilty as charged).Consider the number of wars and killings that have and are, being waged on the appeal to religious justification.Maybe it is time for people to get down to some genuine humanistic compassion in their dealings with others.And that, to be successful, must be inclusive and equal.
this post is not intended to offend anyone, but is just my point of view
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  #28  
Old 06-12-2009, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsapunzi View Post
Well, Littlewing13,you seem to have nicely summed up the kind of extreme self righteous morality typical of many right wing churchgoers in the US.Yes, its your opinion, and you naturally have the right to state it.But, on analysis,justifying the eventual fate of death row inmates to Gods will is an opinion which is more than a bit shaky by its lack of philosophical logic.Appealing to the concept of God may simply be reaching out to a concept of no certifiable truth, as like many other things of human belief it may simply be an epiphenomenon of human consciousness.Assuming you belong to some Christian oriented church,then your position seems strange. Was not Jesus a victim of the death penalty, tried and convicted by due process of law?Would your lack of compassion for death row inmates be the same for him?
Surely, many of the people on death row are part of the social cycle of violence which is perpetuated, often by factors which appear not to have a direct relation to the situations which result in the mess and misery of death row. Greed, class divisions, poverty, ignorance, religious hatred and bigotry. All of which can set going the endless train of drugs, gangs, and the illusion that it really does not matter if you pull the trigger or whatever.Thinking about it, your appeal to religion is actually not such a sound basis on which to build a system of ethics or justify the punishment of (alleged) criminals(not everyone is guilty as charged).Consider the number of wars and killings that have and are, being waged on the appeal to religious justification.Maybe it is time for people to get down to some genuine humanistic compassion in their dealings with others.And that, to be successful, must be inclusive and equal.
this post is not intended to offend anyone, but is just my point of view
Amen sister!
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  #29  
Old 06-13-2009, 03:50 AM
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i am glad hat my post did not offend you JJ as it was not my intention, but i just felt it needed to be said after all our guys need someone to speak up for them

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  #30  
Old 06-13-2009, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jessica7661 View Post
well i think it would be unwise to make a romantic relationship with a dr or lwp for the fact that it could never be more than a friendship with a horible ending. ofcourse there could be a romantic attraction there but the chances of the two being together are gone. we all only have one life to live and its a shame if its wasted on coulda woulda shoulda's. i dont understand woman that devote their lives to lifers with marriage being the acception but hey its just not my situation so i really cant even say what i would or wouldnt do because i've never been there..thank goodness.

i have looked through penpal sites and i wrote a few that were states away and had many more years to do. i wrote to a dr inmate..their crimes dont really matter to me but i am picky about the time and distance cause i dun really know them. and i am being very clear that im only offering friendship because im involved with sumone i luv very much and we have a baby...i dont think they get it tho..they want pictures and phone conversations...i dont think im comfortable with all that i just wanted to bring sum happyness to their day...hmm? is friendship not enough for them?
It's funny to read that you would waste your time on shoulda, coulda, wouldas. LOL Like we sit there and think oh gosh, I woulda like to have done this or that but I'm in prison so I can't. LOL Like the sentence matters. The different with short timers, LWOPs and Death row...is this. Short timers are literally ON HOLD. NOT LIVING THEIR LIFE UNTIL HE GETS OUT. Death Row...not only is this your life but you are summing up the meaning of your life as you go, making it count, each and every moment. And life is lived in a much deeper level because of it. It's just a different way of life obviously not for just anyone.

then the question: is friendship not enough for them? LOL Right, it should be huh? Except well they haven't been able to stop being men first. And you know how men are, they kinda go for girls and figure if you were so devoted to your man why write me? Just a thought know what I mean...so they attempt more maybe, IDK just thinking out loud. LOL How dare they want pictures and phone conversations! Oh wait, isn't that part of a friendship too? How confusing for them. Hmmm, confusing for me too.
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  #31  
Old 06-13-2009, 05:46 AM
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It is easy to judge something that you don't happen to live with. And most of us who became involved with someone on DR have never planned that nor anticipated it even. When you start writing your motivation will be that you want to reach out to someone who must live at a horrible place called death row, because you learned that in our modern times places like that still exist and the persons on there have to live a seperated and isolated life and suffer under horrible conditions on top of their sentence. So when you decide that YOU want to reach out and be a friend for them and show them there are people who care about their situation and don't approve of it, no matter what the crime is they may have committed - then little do we know what to expect. Of course some may not hit it off so well, some may be disappointed. But the majority I am sure will find more than they ever expected. Even if it is not necessarily romance in most cases. But it is a very true friendship and you will soon find that your intentions to reach out to someone are rewarded with so much that those people have to give back to you. So this is how some wonderful friendships develop that are are really of the most value to both persons involved.
Yes, and sometimes the seemingly impossible happens. That some discover that the feelings that those people share even go beyond the term "friendship" and that they begin to mean so much more to each other.
There are all kinds of stories in life as to how someone can meet their true love. There are even some who have never found it or are still searching for it.
And there are so many relationships in our lives that are not functioning any more even though the people are actually living together.
I lived in a relationship for over 12 years when I started to write to my loved one. I never wanted it to be more than a pen friendship. Even this person was recommended to me by someone else and I did not know anything except his age and the amount of time he already spent in there about him. But then eventually we found out that what we felt for each other was much more than we wanted to admit. But it became more evident the more letters were exchanged. And even after we met, it was even more obvious.
Of course I could put my common sense at work and tell myself about the advantages of staying with someone whom I did not really love any more and have just stayed with our of a habit maybe, instead of following my heart and be with the one I love even though I could not be with him all the time. But the decision for him was the consequence after we have met for the first time. And even he never asked me to do that. Because he could not support me. But I just had to follow my heart. And I have never regretted that ever since. I made my decision for him with all consequences, that is to move back into my own house and it is a commitment that I know is the only right one for me and I take it very serious.
Of course we all have different ideas about what a relationship may be for us and whether you want to be only with the one you love or feel you need additional affairs or whatsoever. So that all is a matter between each couple of how they handle this also here in the free world.
But to me, if I commit myself to one person that means that I want no one else. And as far as whether they deserve it? Each and every person deserves to have a love and good friends in their lives. And those who are facing hard times need them for sure. Those people on DR often have not even family standing beside them. They have poor defense attorneys who mostly did not do much to prevent that they got there. There are many cases where the people should not even be there for various reasons. Some are even innocent. No matter what, all are human and have the right to have friends and loved ones. And those of us who are aware of that and want to be a part of fulfilling some of the basic needs that every human has, we realise that. And those who feel that their basic human needs can be violated because of what they did, on top of the sentence they already got, they are to stay away from them and they probably will. And whatever the people who are in favour of the death penalty or in favour of treating these people inhuman may say or think what we are, who are friends of those on DR, really I don't care what they say and I don't need their approval. We all must do what our heart tells us to do and when it comes to the abuse of human rights this includes the people on death row. They are humans and animals in a zoo are often treated better than some of the persons on death row. There are studies that clearly show what the isolation and denial of basic human needs can do to those people.
So each and every human being needs to have their basic needs fullfilled even in a prison. And if anyone will enter into a relationship with anyone there on DR then it is their individual relationship and they should live it the way they see fit. To go and think that they are some kind of toy that can be used to help some to overcome their boredom, this is very tragic. Yet it happens. There are people who use people in the inside and on the outside.
Every human being needs friends, no matter where and when. And the many people on here who are friends and loved ones to death row inmates know about the hardships and also about the rewarding and happy moments of it. It is not easy to live with the hardships at all times. But for those of us who are in such a relationship, we are also rewarded in many ways. I am at least and I am counting my blessings.
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  #32  
Old 06-13-2009, 07:24 AM
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I agree with the above poster when i becaome friends with a d'r inmate in Oklahoma the friendship just grew and i learned such a lot from him, and no we were not romantically involved with each other, when he was finally executed he wrote his last letter to me just a couple of hours before they killed him he told me he felt that he had become a better man because of me and i was closer to him than his own family were. who all except for his mom abandoned him when he went to d/row, his friendship meant the world to me and i valued his friendship more than anything else, and yes i did and still do love him, i have my own love on the row in Gorgia and i would not part with him for the world, no-one has the right to tell us who we should be with or should not be with, my ex husband never gave me the klind of love that i have found with my man, i also do not care what anyone thinks or says about our relationship its our buisness and is the same for any of tjhe ladies/guys that are involved with, friends with some one on the row

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  #33  
Old 06-13-2009, 01:01 PM
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gypsysmagician and elsapunzi...

What POWERFUL words and they are nothing but the truth.
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  #34  
Old 06-13-2009, 11:45 PM
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Tomorrow is my 4th anniversary, but as many of you know and are trying to help me with I guess you would say that Eldon and I are separated at present. It does not matter in my mind, however. I made a vow and just as I would not run out and look for another relationship were he out here and we separated, I do not look despite his being on death row.

Eldon told me that he did not want to share and he does not. If you think about it, some women endure years of their husbands gone in the military or away from home for other reasons, but they still have husbands whom they treat with love and respect.
To me marriage is marriage no matter where your husband is and until my husband demands a divorce I am a married woman.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:50 AM
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thank you joy, i think we have to be not only their eyes and ears but we should also give them a voice, because they have so very little and do not even have their basic human rights
Eldons wife, i remember when you first wrote about how much you loved your Eldon, it was about the time my friend was executed, and your posts helped me more than you will ever know, i know you still have that great love for him, so hang in there, i hope and pray things will turn out the way you want them to
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Old 06-14-2009, 04:48 PM
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I wish that I could accurately express how much it means to me to know that my words help another during a rough time, because I certainly depend on the words of others at times.

thanks,
Kricket

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thank you joy, i think we have to be not only their eyes and ears but we should also give them a voice, because they have so very little and do not even have their basic human rights
Eldons wife, i remember when you first wrote about how much you loved your Eldon, it was about the time my friend was executed, and your posts helped me more than you will ever know, i know you still have that great love for him, so hang in there, i hope and pray things will turn out the way you want them to
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:19 AM
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yes your words helped me through what was the worst time and most painful time in my life, because though he was just my friend i loved him deeply,and seeing the love you had and still do have for Elden showed me that all that he and i had to go though on those last weeks was worth it and i knew then i would not have had it any other way, because i was so blessed to have had his love and friendship, and most of ghat came from reading your many posts, you showed that if you care for someone on the row then its woth the pain and heartache, i am sure Elden will come to see your great love for him is real,i wish you both all the luck in the world
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:16 AM
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Even though the circumstances are not the best, I wish you a happy anniversary. And somehow I feel confident that you will have many more days like that to celebrate. And then to celebrate it with a happy heart. I know you are sad right now and I think Eldon must be too. So for the new year of your marriage I wish you happiness and some good events hopefully happening and most of all that your love for each other will win over the doubts and worries and trouble that you are facing right now.
Take care and try to enjoy your day as much as you can.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:50 AM
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To my friend Kricket:



A Very happy fourth wedding anniversary
I am always late with anniversaries and birthdays...lol But these wishes are sent to you and Eldon, with much love - JJ xxx
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:44 AM
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with so many from PTO bugging him with me - you never know - he might just wake up and I do thank everyone for trying and making this last week survivable.

Love ya gals,
Kricket

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To my friend Kricket:



A Very happy fourth wedding anniversary
I am always late with anniversaries and birthdays...lol But these wishes are sent to you and Eldon, with much love - JJ xxx
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:23 AM
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Kricket Happy Anniversary . I am sure you and Eldon will have many more happy years together. Any marriage is sacred no matter what the circumstances might be.
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Old 06-21-2009, 10:03 AM
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Excuse me Elsapunzi (and the people who agreed with you), I recommend you go back and actually read my post. I don't see where you get off insulting me, or the reason for your unnecessary defense. You might do a better job of reaching people if you approach it in a different way. Besides that, I very clearly stated that I am not in favor of the Death Penalty. I'm going to get out of your forum now, because I don't want to cause any problems here, that was never my intent. I wish you and your loved one peace.
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  #43  
Old 06-22-2009, 03:15 AM
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where was the insult aginst you, if YOU had read my post correctly then i stated i was not trying to insult anyone at all, but it seems that whatever anyone says or
if they disagree with you, then you take it as a personal insult, and dont worry myself and the other posters on here already do reach more people than you could ever imagine possible, if you think it was me being defensive then you have seen nothing yet and hopefully you wont have to, but i will say that i will continue to speak out against the DP it is wrong in every way. oh and you also mzace it a point of saying that those on the row dont deserve love and loyalty mainly due to their crimes, and you neverf actually stated you are against the dp ande also you were judging those you termed d/r groupies, so tell me where /why you feel insulted by my vbiving my opinion to your post, you also stated you do not thjink those on the row deservbe anything better than the basics, and you then went on to say that they do not desrve love nor loyalty from those of us who are loyal to are d/r men and even just our pen pals on the row. i think truthfully you need to do a lot of research because you do not seem to understand much at all about our d/r guys and girls

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Old 06-22-2009, 08:37 AM
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I think if you re-read Elsa's post, there was no insult. I think if you also read those of us who agreed with her we did not insult either. On this forum due to the emotive nature, it is sometimes wise to leave sensibilities at the door. People have differing views, but a differing opinion does not equate to an insult!!


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Excuse me Elsapunzi (and the people who agreed with you), I recommend you go back and actually read my post. I don't see where you get off insulting me, or the reason for your unnecessary defense. You might do a better job of reaching people if you approach it in a different way. Besides that, I very clearly stated that I am not in favor of the Death Penalty. I'm going to get out of your forum now, because I don't want to cause any problems here, that was never my intent. I wish you and your loved one peace.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:24 AM
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Of course there was no insult. I feel Elsa's frustration though. Researching, following cases, discovering the problems with the system, are all necessary to understanding this issue. It is sometimes hard to stomach the drive by posters that are not informed yet freely share their opinions. Walk a mile, my dear.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:39 AM
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and rthat is a fact that the other poster did not insult you, but again if you cannot take other peoples opinipons then you are really better not to post in the cp forums, as it is a support site for the death row inmates and their loved ones
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:44 AM
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The CP forum can be and is a heated place to be at times, and people who post in here are either relatives/loved ones of DR inmates, very knowledgeable or both. This forum is a place where if you can't stand the heat, you are better avoiding, as people who really do know what is going on on DR will shoot you down. We don't do crap on here, we deal in fact!!!
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:01 AM
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very well put JJ
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:56 PM
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Mamma I find a lot of those "drive by posters" - don't always handle them so politely myself...
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Old 06-22-2009, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esteli View Post
the question is do you think that a man with a harsh sentence as in dp or lwop deserves to have a faithful, dedicated woman by his side? well as oppose to someone doing a short bid and he's getting out so he can start a dedicated relationship because he'll be home soon.
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in talking to a couple of women they say not someone with such a harsh sentence. actually she said, he doesn't deserve 100% loyalty. the other woman said he is lucky to have anyone there for him at all.
I believe that having someone who is loyal and dedicated by your side provides much hope to any inmate, regardless of sentence. Being dedicate and loyal can come in the form of friendship and progress into something more.

There are times when people start out as friends, (which is almost always the way it begins with MWI) and it progresses. If the two parties involved know what they face, and they choose to make a commitment, then honesty and loyalty come with that. It's kind of a package deal.

I was a dedicated friend to my now husband when he was on DR. So it really all depends on the nature of the relationship and how it began. What applies to me may not apply to someone else.

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so are these the men who get the woman who is married or living with someone else or dating, whatever her situation but not totally dedicated to him. could he ask for more? is it fair that he ask for that dedication and loyalty?

what is your take on this?
I’ve never encountered this. My husband was on DR. And all he ever wanted was a friend. Someone he could talk to, vent to, ask for help, pray with etc… After years of friendship, when his sentence was overturned, we married. I've known him since we were kids.

I’m sure that if the offender asked for such loyalty, and the other person was involved with another person, the definition of loyal would come into play.

You can be a loyal friend, it doesn’t have to be romantic. I know when it comes to my friends, I am a true friend to them and a part of that is being loyal and honest.

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and on the woman's part of this, is it ok she protect herself from his harsh sentence by having someone else in her life? maybe some women lead double lives, I read this in another thread. what is your take on these women who seek out men who aren't ever coming home as their "secret" relationship, or side relationship?
If we are talking about being romantically involved, beyond friendship, as in partners and/or spouses or committed, it should be just that, a committed relationship. Just as you would with someone who was not incarcerated.

I’ve known many of men on Death Row, and the wives who have loved them. I’ve never once met one who classified the relationship as ‘secret’ or ‘a side relationship’.

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Also the term groupie is thrown around and I'm not sure what that really means.
The term ‘groupie’ can be used in many forms, both good and bad. I don’t think being a friend or falling for someone that you never intended on falling for classifies you as a groupie. So, it all DEPENDS on YOUR DEFINITION of the word.

Do I think they exist? Sure, I’ve seen men and women alike flock to high profile offender to the next trying to get 5 minutes of fame. But on the norm? I rarely saw a ‘groupie’ at visitation.

Out of 30 visits to Polunsky, I never met anyone who was a ‘groupie’. I met mothers, fathers , wives and friends.

In a nut shell, I believe that regardless of the sentence, they deserve equality because you never know the real circumstances as to why they are where they are, and at the end of the day, they are human.

Last edited by abitofsunshine; 06-22-2009 at 03:52 PM..
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