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Federal General Prison Talk, Introductions & Chit Chat Topics & Discussions relating to the Federal Prison & the Criminal Justice System that do not fit into any other Federal sub-forum category. Please feel free to also introduce yourself to other members in the state and talk about whatever topics come to mind that may not have anything to do with prison.

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Old 08-04-2017, 03:39 PM
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Default Wrongly Sent to Miami FDC instead of FCI for White Collar

Hello everyone,

New here. At sentencing, our family was told that our loved one would be sent to a low security prison preferably FCI because he had no prior records and because of the white collar nature of the crime and the 33 month sentence. His attorney told his parents this.

However, it seems that his attorney, at the proceeding, said "Miami or Coleman" without much specification. After serving 5 months in county jail, my loved one has just been sent to FDC and is being told he will have to stay there unless they approve a transfer request in 18 months. During a meeting with his attorney, he was told that he would try his best, but there was little that he could do.

A man he had somewhat befriended in county jail reassures me that FDC is simply a holding place and that he will be moved to 'prison' prison based on points in a month or so. (We don't know what his 'points' are.) The befriended also stated that attorneys rarely know the full extent of prison and that he has personally experienced a lawyer telling his own family things that were not, in the end, accurate.

Does anyone have any experience with the Miami FDC being a mostly temporary place? Or is it possible for white collar people with camp status to stay there?

Any advice?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 08-04-2017, 03:45 PM
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I can't answer specifically to the facilities you're asking about, but I can reassure you that a lawyer's best guess about where they'll go is exactly what it is...a best guess. DOCs and the BOP make decisions based on more than what kind of crime was committed. "White collar" isn't a line on the classification score.

I do hope you get a solid response soon, but know that it's extremely common to not know where you're headed until you're firmly there.

Best of luck.
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:25 PM
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Because your issue has to do with BOP & Federal facility assignment, I've moved your thread to the Federal forum
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:31 PM
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Even a judge's recommendation or comment on facility placement is not binding upon the BOP. As noted, one can offer professional opinions on likely placements, but even attorneys doing work in that arena for decades cannot speak with the authority of a pronouncement from the mount...
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:45 PM
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I am guessing it's a transfer situation. I recently worked with a client who had to go there because his letter didn't come. His info was checked and he was allowed to go to Homestead without checking in. The FDC staff knows little, so he should trust no one. Generally the FDC is not a typical designation because they are so busy and they aren't set up for long term incarceration. Summer time (and holidays) the BOP is especially slow because of vacations. The only real thing that can be done is for the lawyer to call the Marshals and ask what the designation is. If he ends up there, I may be able to point you in the direction of some help to facilitate the transfer.

To anyone awaiting sentencing and reading this, ask for only one judicial designation. For some reason, asking for more than one gets no attention.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:00 PM
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Somebody has to be assigned there; somebody has to fill the work cadre slots that keep the MDC up and running.

Many months ago there was a member here with a 36 month sentence - he too was from FLA and that is where he was assigned.

I assure you he was not happy about it either, but since it was his 2nd trip to federal prison his complaining did nothing.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:46 PM
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I know they have a work cadre, because I see the men outside, but I still think it's likely a transfer. For some reason, the work cadre is rarely mentioned. If he is there, one of the big downsides is visitation. It's so much nicer at the Camp.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellisq View Post
I am guessing it's a transfer situation. I recently worked with a client who had to go there because his letter didn't come. His info was checked and he was allowed to go to Homestead without checking in. The FDC staff knows little, so he should trust no one. Generally the FDC is not a typical designation because they are so busy and they aren't set up for long term incarceration. Summer time (and holidays) the BOP is especially slow because of vacations. The only real thing that can be done is for the lawyer to call the Marshals and ask what the designation is. If he ends up there, I may be able to point you in the direction of some help to facilitate the transfer.

To anyone awaiting sentencing and reading this, ask for only one judicial designation. For some reason, asking for more than one gets no attention.
This really helped a lot! Thanks!
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:15 PM
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Yes, a camp is as good as it gets, but the BoP is more interested in keeping the MDC running than they are in keeping inmates happy.


And, if I am reading things right, the inmate in question was not a SS which may throw the camp thing off too.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safran View Post
Yes, a camp is as good as it gets, but the BoP is more interested in keeping the MDC running than they are in keeping inmates happy.


And, if I am reading things right, the inmate in question was not a SS which may throw the camp thing off too.
Can you define SS, please? Thanks.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:33 PM
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Can you define SS, please? Thanks.
Self surrender.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:36 PM
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Self surrender.
Thank you! Yes, he was a SS.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:43 PM
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"After serving 5 months in county jail, my loved one has just been sent to FDC......"

So he did 5 months in county jail, was able to get out on bond and then was somehow notified to SS to MDC Miami?

Without even counting 1/2 house time he only has 23 months left to serve so if he was officially assigned to MDC he doesn't have enough time left to get a transfer.

I hope he does get moved to a camp though, but if not scores of people have survived detention centers and he will too.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safran View Post
"After serving 5 months in county jail, my loved one has just been sent to FDC......"

So he did 5 months in county jail, was able to get out on bond and then was somehow notified to SS to MDC Miami?

Without even counting 1/2 house time he only has 23 months left to serve so if he was officially assigned to MDC he doesn't have enough time left to get a transfer.

I hope he does get moved to a camp though, but if not scores of people have survived detention centers and he will too.
Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. He SS to county instead of bond and then was sentenced and then was transferred to MDC instead of prison. Though we were told he would be going to prison and not a detention center. I'm starting to believe it is just a pit stop rather than a final designation. Though that will ultimately be determined by the BoP. From my research, hypothetically, his score will be low.

But I do thank you for the last line though.
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
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Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. He SS to county instead of bond and then was sentenced and then was transferred to MDC instead of prison. Though we were told he would be going to prison and not a detention center. I'm starting to believe it is just a pit stop rather than a final designation. Though that will ultimately be determined by the BoP. From my research, hypothetically, his score will be low.
I think we need to define what we all mean by "Self Surrender". If he turned himself in at some point prior to sentencing, that's NOT the self surrender we're referring to. In this context, Self Surrender is if someone is out on bond at the time of sentencing, not taken into custody at sentencing, and then given a date to surrender and a facility recommendation. Later, the BOP decides where you're supposed to go and you get a letter (in my case, I got a letter from the Marshals) telling you that facility.

In the case you're describing, it sounds like he was in county jail awaiting trial/sentencing. Then he got sentenced without being in federal custody yet and is still in county jail. Now he will be transferred to Federal Custody at the FDC based on what he was told. I am unsure how that process works, but there are a lot of stories on this board about others in this situation being moved from facility to facility for quite some time until finally arriving at a "home" facility.

Maybe I'm wrong, but do Federal offenders in a county jail actually get designation letters? Or will they just be in the system until someone at BOP makes a decision?
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:14 AM
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He needs to ask his counselor if he is designated to FDC Miami, or not. I was there for over 3 months, but I was a "holdover", not a work cadre drone. The counselor will know since the visitation rules are totally different for each situation.

For some reason, usually security, some counselors will share his status with him, but others won't tell him if he is scheduled for a move (or especially he won't be told when the move will happen).

There is a low security FCI, and a minimum security camp at different locations in Miami, so that is one possibility. Being allowed to self surrender reduces his custody score, which makes it more likely that he will end up somewhere with a lower custody level than the at the FDC.
https://www.bop.gov/policy/progstat/5100_008.pdf
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:37 AM
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FDC Miami has changed since Fbopnomore was there. Things got wonky after they brought in terrorist Padilla and get stranger every year.

He is not considered self surrender at FDC, because of the transfer from the county facility.

Out of curiousity, what shows up on Bop.gov inmate locator?
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:38 PM
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Thank you for all of your responses last night.

This afternoon our loved one sent a message that the FDC was indeed his last designation and that he was told that he would be... working.

I guess this is the same as what many of you have referred to as a 'work cadre'? It's unfortunate as he had hoped to be helping his appeal at a law library - not working. I wonder if the BoP could override the point system just to employ cheap labor like this.

We're obviously still confused and a bit upset, but can anyone point me in any experiences with being a worker at the Miami FDC and how that pertains to visitation negatives?

Thank you!
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
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This afternoon our loved one sent a message that the FDC was indeed his last designation and that he was told that he would be... working.

I guess this is the same as what many of you have referred to as a 'work cadre'? It's unfortunate as he had hoped to be helping his appeal at a law library - not working. I wonder if the BoP could override the point system just to employ cheap labor like this.
Please note that, per my understanding, everyone has to "work" in the Federal Prison system. One will get assigned a job unless there's a medical reason. (and in the camp situation, most first jobs are menial and often having to do with the dining hall)

There should still be some free time to go to the law library. Legal resources should be available in all facilities.

So, being part of the "work cadre" isn't really that different job wise except that it's not an ideal facility.

My one question is whether he knows how long he has until he is moved? If there's at least a month left there are some consultants that have re-designation as part of their service offerings. Results can be mixed, but they would walk you through the steps. Also consider that it sounds like the FDC is local to where you are. The BOP has no obligation to put him close to you and family. If he pushes the BOP to try not to end up in the FDC he may end up in a prison camp out of state, hundreds of miles and many hours away. There's a definite risk/reward cost/benefit analysis to do here. Sure, visitation may be theoretically easier at a camp but does that really matter if he ends up 500+ miles away?

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Old 08-05-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
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Please note that, per my understanding, everyone has to "work" in the Federal Prison system. One will get assigned a job unless there's a medical reason. (and in the camp situation, most first jobs are menial and often having to do with the dining hall)

There should still be some free time to go to the law library. Legal resources should be available in all facilities.

So, being part of the "work cadre" isn't really that different job wise except that it's not an ideal facility.

My one question is whether he knows how long he has until he is moved? If there's at least a month left there are some consultants that have re-designation as part of their service offerings. Results can be mixed, but they would walk you through the steps. Also consider that it sounds like the FDC is local to where you are. The BOP has no obligation to put him close to you and family. If he pushes the BOP to try not to end up in the FDC he may end up in a prison camp out of state, hundreds of miles and many hours away. There's a definite risk/reward cost/benefit analysis to do here. Sure, visitation may be theoretically easier at a camp but does that really matter if he ends up 500+ miles away?
Thanks a lot! The thing is that he has been told that he will not be moved. That he was designated there. But I'm actively trying to see who he heard this from. If it was from the official counselor or some random. We don't know whether it's a temporary designation or a permanent one. We just believed that this would not be a long-term designation.
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Old 08-05-2017, 03:09 PM
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The thing is that he has been told that he will not be moved. That he was designated there. But I'm actively trying to see who he heard this from. If it was from the official counselor or some random. We don't know whether it's a temporary designation or a permanent one. We just believed that this would not be a long-term designation.
While the general consensus is that designations are final, some consultants have luck getting a re-designation before you get to the facility. (though usually they do this with self surrender individuals) This is why I asked if he has about a month before the move. If not, there's probably nothing that can be done. These decisions are made at the BOP central facility and people with influence can sometimes get them to make a change in the proper buttons are pushed. This requires time and effort, however. Him begging his counselor will likely get him zero results because they (honestly) probably don't care enough to do anything and don't have influence with the BOP bureaucracy.

Once he goes to the FDC, then the situation changes from him needing a "re-designation" to a transfer which is a completely different matter. Requests from the inmate to transfer need to wait 18 months from what I have read and are probably not going to be likely due to his short sentence. Sure, the BOP might just decide to transfer him of their own volition after a while but you will probably have no control over the reasons, timing, or likelihood of that.

If he doesn't know the answer to anything from the inside you may be able to find answers on the outside through his attorney or some other means.
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Old 08-05-2017, 03:49 PM
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While the general consensus is that designations are final, some consultants have luck getting a re-designation before you get to the facility. (though usually they do this with self surrender individuals) This is why I asked if he has about a month before the move. If not, there's probably nothing that can be done. These decisions are made at the BOP central facility and people with influence can sometimes get them to make a change in the proper buttons are pushed. This requires time and effort, however. Him begging his counselor will likely get him zero results because they (honestly) probably don't care enough to do anything and don't have influence with the BOP bureaucracy.

Once he goes to the FDC, then the situation changes from him needing a "re-designation" to a transfer which is a completely different matter. Requests from the inmate to transfer need to wait 18 months from what I have read and are probably not going to be likely due to his short sentence. Sure, the BOP might just decide to transfer him of their own volition after a while but you will probably have no control over the reasons, timing, or likelihood of that.

If he doesn't know the answer to anything from the inside you may be able to find answers on the outside through his attorney or some other means.
Thank you! It seems as though he will contact a case manager soon. Apparently they select certain low-security offenders to work at the FDC instead of being transferred to a camp. According to him, he will have to work odd jobs like supervising those under suicide watch and other tasks. I just hope he is eventually solely confined to low-security offenders, but who knows.


Thanks again.
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Old 08-05-2017, 05:26 PM
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I was a transfer inmate at FDC Miami, but I had interactions with the work cadre inmates, mainly in medical and the visiting room. They had a regular "assigned job" that maxed out at about 35 hours a week, or for some, many fewer hours and workdays. When not working, your time is pretty much your own. Weekend only jobs are the least demanding, and all jobs for the regular housing units, including janitorial are assigned to their own inmates, not the cadre.

You will live in a special housing unit with other work cadre (low security) inmates. All of the other housing units contain every security level from life without parole on down, and there were far more fights, theft, and intimidation than anywhere else I was, including US Penitentiaries. Federal arrestees were dropped off there directly from the street since it also serves as a federal jail.

You will have a much different opinion of the bop once you are locked up there. Things like risk/reward, cost benefit analysis do not exist. The bop transports inmates everywhere on Con air flights, mostly on seized aircraft. The Marshals say that every inmate who takes up a seat on any flight segment costs the government $2,000.00 which has to be more than the cost to fly on any commercial airline.

Cost benefit? Minimize the number of con air flights and save a bunch of money? My trip included a flight from Miami to Atlanta. One inmate who was on the same flight, and was headed to the same prison in Pennsylvania (even though both of us lived in Florida) then left the next day on a direct flight to Harrisburg, PA. I stayed in USP Atlanta for 28 awful days, and then got on to my second Con Air flight, Atlanta to Oklahoma City. 6 weeks later it was back on the plane for a two stop trip, to Harrisburg, PA, so my $4000.00 plane ride ended up costing $10,000.00 if the Marshal was correct.

Learn what you can before you self surrender, but don't be surprised when you find out that the bop does things exactly the way they want to do them.
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
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FDC Miami has changed since Fbopnomore was there. Things got wonky after they brought in terrorist Padilla and get stranger every year.

He is not considered self surrender at FDC, because of the transfer from the county facility.

Out of curiousity, what shows up on Bop.gov inmate locator?
Thanks. His name, but release: unknown still.
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
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He needs to ask his counselor if he is designated to FDC Miami, or not. I was there for over 3 months, but I was a "holdover", not a work cadre drone. The counselor will know since the visitation rules are totally different for each situation.

For some reason, usually security, some counselors will share his status with him, but others won't tell him if he is scheduled for a move (or especially he won't be told when the move will happen).

There is a low security FCI, and a minimum security camp at different locations in Miami, so that is one possibility. Being allowed to self surrender reduces his custody score, which makes it more likely that he will end up somewhere with a lower custody level than the at the FDC.

Were you told your designation on your first day or did you have to wait a while? Or were you told from the beginning that you were simply in holding?

Thanks!
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