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  #176  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:22 PM
Bikerguy Bikerguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Mejramkap View Post
can a prisoner send a letter if the prison has lockdown? i have not heard from my frend for a long time and he is in the beaumont prison
During a lockdown mail is still flowing in and out. But like others said he might be low on stamps etc.
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  #177  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:31 PM
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Hi,

Correctional officer or any learned / experienced members, please help further my understanding, if you can. I do not expect any thing jurisdictional - specific as I know that is not going to happen.

Why would an inmate be labeled an „ escape risk ” if they have no prior attempts and this is their first time incarcerated? This was decided @ time of security classification. Any ideas that come to mind? Thanks.
One example would be significant financial means to faclitate an escape attempt. Also extensive foreign contacts...and means.
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  #178  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:46 PM
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Hello. As a CO I am hoping you would enlighten me. I understand that you can not answer specific questions regarding particular systems and facilities. There any generalized answer based on your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.
Of what would a daily routine of a recently re-classified and transferred 4/4 male inmate consist? This is a close, not max, rating in Arizona. At what juncture, if any, is he likely to be offered drug classes/counseling, perhaps a job, or continued education? Or is this move likely to be largely punitive due to repeated drug violations while incarcerated?
In my prison we do everything we can to offer as much programing as we have. Certain things are
On a waiting list and certain things require 1 year free of
Infractions.
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  #179  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:58 PM
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Interesting thread.

What would you say the percentage is of inmates who have been placed in "the hole" a least once?
That's an interesting question. At least one night? Maybe it would be a high number say 50%. But that number would be high because there are many reasons someone goes to SHU. Even for one night.
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  #180  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:01 PM
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We live in a society that places labels on ourselves. I feel that is ok. As long as we know are are more than that "one" label. As long as we don't loose focus on the other, good labels out there. Father, Mother, Aunt, Uncle, Son, Daughter etc.......

As for convict, inmate etc. I don't place the label of "convict" on someone. It is something they place on themselves. I see it as a way to separate themselves from the crowd...and sometimes from the petty prison politics that exist. "I'm a convict, I am above this BS." (The BS being the prison drama that exists.)
Funny... my husband just wrote a letter in which he separated out the 'convicts' from the non-convicts (without my ever bringing this dialogue up). He stressed that a convict is someone who is patient, understands how the system is run, works with it, and demonstrates respect and seriousness.

He mentioned it in the context of having to deal with fellow prisoners who are obnoxious, rude, loud, vulgar, and trashing up their personal space (which in prison means trashing up space of anyone adjacent to them). The label is helpful to him -- I can see how.
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  #181  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:53 PM
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In my prison we do everything we can to offer as much programing as we have. Certain things are
On a waiting list and certain things require 1 year free of
Infractions.
Thank you. So, the inmate may have to earn the privilege of a job or education and show a genuine desire to be drug free.
In the mean time, how would he likely spend his time? Would he be locked in the cell all day? Caged recreation? Handcuffed while watching TV? I know he is in with others who also have disciplinary issues and drug addictions. I guess I worry about how he will grow beyond this and return to society and his family a better man.
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  #182  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:02 AM
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One example would be significant financial means to faclitate an escape attempt. Also extensive foreign contacts...and means.
I do not know how to quote 2 ppl or I forget. But, thank you, to Taliba00, too.

It makes sense. He is also a [ retired ] officer of a foreign military so, it is logical. They [ prison system ] believe he requires additional supervision. Makes me believe it when I hear he will be denied @ security review. Am I wrong to believe this? [ . . in your opinion]
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  #183  
Old 05-23-2019, 07:46 AM
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Funny... my husband just wrote a letter in which he separated out the 'convicts' from the non-convicts (without my ever bringing this dialogue up). He stressed that a convict is someone who is patient, understands how the system is run, works with it, and demonstrates respect and seriousness.

He mentioned it in the context of having to deal with fellow prisoners who are obnoxious, rude, loud, vulgar, and trashing up their personal space (which in prison means trashing up space of anyone adjacent to them). The label is helpful to him -- I can see how.
Your husband brings up points that we study in the academy and in college.

Many times those inmates act out because they find it difficult to adjust to the total control of prison. When to wake up, when to sleep, when to eat, when to go outside. As a way to rebel they try and control what they can. That can be their personal space or that can be the micro aggression towards staff or other inmates.

This behavior is seen across all types of inmates.

Learning how to do time is something they all have to learn.
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  #184  
Old 05-23-2019, 03:19 PM
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I'm not sure if this has been asked, so forgive me. Are you trained or encouraged to be unfriendly? I understand you have to be mindful of the h but I'm also referring to visitors, too.

At one institution, the officers always managed to find a way to come across as cold. I had to throw away a pair of earrings because they were too large (no such policy and the officer than came in a few minutes after I was asked to discard them, corrected their colleague but it was too late), one lady was told not to come inside to ask a question prior to visitation process beginning (it was her first time and we couldn't help her with the information she needed) and so forth.
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  #185  
Old 05-23-2019, 03:28 PM
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I'm not sure if this has been asked, so forgive me. Are you trained or encouraged to be unfriendly? I understand you have to be mindful of the h but I'm also referring to visitors, too.

At one institution, the officers always managed to find a way to come across as cold. I had to throw away a pair of earrings because they were too large (no such policy and the officer than came in a few minutes after I was asked to discard them, corrected their colleague but it was too late), one lady was told not to come inside to ask a question prior to visitation process beginning (it was her first time and we couldn't help her with the information she needed) and so forth.
I have been in visiting rooms listening to a speech prior to a visit being told that they are suspicious of all of us. They dont care if you are a mother etc and that people bring in stuff so everyone will be treated as if they are bringing something in.
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  #186  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:06 PM
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Unfortunately we do come across as cold and uncaring, even to visitors. Bottom line policy is not designed to accommodate visitors. Primary concern is for safety and security.

Inmates play games and try and get over on COs every day. Even if it's little things and are generally harmless but favors the inmate. But those harmless things can easily escalate to larger and larger violations of policy.

The same can be said for visitors. Sometimes it is genuine. Other times visitors are just trying to get over. "but I wore this last time". And yes visitors bring in contraband...a lot. Visitors if left unchecked can escalate that quick kiss during the visit (that is not allowed except in the beginning or the end) to some deep x rated fondling.

The lady that entered early to ask a question? Well if that question is answered it opens a floodgate, suddenly EVERYONE feels entitled to go inside to ask a question. That disrupts whatever they were doing prior to the start of visiting. Breakfast, checking emails, responding to a supervisor, getting paper ready etc.

That entitlement extends to a lot of things inside prison. The second it's suddenly ok for one inmate or family to do something there is half a dozen who just saw that and want the same for them. It sucks to say no sometimes....and come across as cold. But I've said yes to something and open the floodgates. That goes for inside the visiting room or back in the housing unit.

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Originally Posted by choclgs View Post
I'm not sure if this has been asked, so forgive me. Are you trained or encouraged to be unfriendly? I understand you have to be mindful of the h but I'm also referring to visitors, too.

At one institution, the officers always managed to find a way to come across as cold. I had to throw away a pair of earrings because they were too large (no such policy and the officer than came in a few minutes after I was asked to discard them, corrected their colleague but it was too late), one lady was told not to come inside to ask a question prior to visitation process beginning (it was her first time and we couldn't help her with the information she needed) and so forth.
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  #187  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:19 PM
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Unfortunately we do come across as cold and uncaring, even to visitors. Bottom line policy is not designed to accommodate visitors. Primary concern is for safety and security.

Inmates play games and try and get over on COs every day. Even if it's little things and are generally harmless but favors the inmate. But those harmless things can easily escalate to larger and larger violations of policy.

The same can be said for visitors. Sometimes it is genuine. Other times visitors are just trying to get over. "but I wore this last time". And yes visitors bring in contraband...a lot. Visitors if left unchecked can escalate that quick kiss during the visit (that is not allowed except in the beginning or the end) to some deep x rated fondling.

The lady that entered early to ask a question? Well if that question is answered it opens a floodgate, suddenly EVERYONE feels entitled to go inside to ask a question. That disrupts whatever they were doing prior to the start of visiting. Breakfast, checking emails, responding to a supervisor, getting paper ready etc.

That entitlement extends to a lot of things inside prison. The second it's suddenly ok for one inmate or family to do something there is half a dozen who just saw that and want the same for them. It sucks to say no sometimes....and come across as cold. But I've said yes to something and open the floodgates. That goes for inside the visiting room or back in the housing unit.
I totally understand this. I’m always polite and courteous and just don’t take it personally. We’re all humans and I know the shit the CO’s deal with on a daily basis my sister is one at cook county jail in Chicago where we live. She was kind to a female inmate in medical four years ago, got jumped by 4 inmates and ended up needing back surgery. I treat others how I want to be treated and I have never had an issue where my husband is at, or his former facility.
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  #188  
Old 05-25-2019, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bikerguy View Post
Unfortunately we do come across as cold and uncaring, even to visitors. Bottom line policy is not designed to accommodate visitors. Primary concern is for safety and security.

Inmates play games and try and get over on COs every day. Even if it's little things and are generally harmless but favors the inmate. But those harmless things can easily escalate to larger and larger violations of policy.

The same can be said for visitors. Sometimes it is genuine. Other times visitors are just trying to get over. "but I wore this last time". And yes visitors bring in contraband...a lot. Visitors if left unchecked can escalate that quick kiss during the visit (that is not allowed except in the beginning or the end) to some deep x rated fondling.

The lady that entered early to ask a question? Well if that question is answered it opens a floodgate, suddenly EVERYONE feels entitled to go inside to ask a question. That disrupts whatever they were doing prior to the start of visiting. Breakfast, checking emails, responding to a supervisor, getting paper ready etc.

That entitlement extends to a lot of things inside prison. The second it's suddenly ok for one inmate or family to do something there is half a dozen who just saw that and want the same for them. It sucks to say no sometimes....and come across as cold. But I've said yes to something and open the floodgates. That goes for inside the visiting room or back in the housing unit.
But here's the thing.. Policy is policy yes but there is a way to enforce policy and keep order without being rude and mean. Millions of companies and organizations do it every day. I've had this experience on my very first visit to a jail for visitation and it has left such a sour note in my mouth even though literally every other visit I've had since was positive by leaps and bounds. It would very much serve the overall condition in prisons to have some people training for staff. As I mentioned, my positive experiences were on Rikers Island where they are used to ppl sneaking in contraband, fighting, stabbing, etc but every single CO there that I encountered there still made me feel human in a very shitty place.

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  #189  
Old 05-25-2019, 05:10 AM
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Policy is policy yes but there is a way to enforce policy and keep order without being rude and mean.
Absolutely agree with this!

Also - the comment about some visitors claiming "but I wore this the last time" - that's not necessarily about the visitor making it up; it seems to be very random how the dress code is enforced...people DO get turned away even when they have been allowed in wearing the same clothes before, even multiple times (in an attempt of making sure they get in again). Policy should not change depending on which CO is working the visiting room during your visit.
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  #190  
Old 05-25-2019, 05:52 AM
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Absolutely agree with this!

Also - the comment about some visitors claiming "but I wore this the last time" - that's not necessarily about the visitor making it up; it seems to be very random how the dress code is enforced...people DO get turned away even when they have been allowed in wearing the same clothes before, even multiple times (in an attempt of making sure they get in again). Policy should not change depending on which CO is working the visiting room during your visit.
If I didn't know better, I'd say we've visited some of the same places!
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  #191  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:58 AM
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**Policy is policy***
Trouble with this is it can be very difficult to find out what IS policy. As was mentioned in regards to clothing.

For example, in the CDCr's visitors booklet it says no denim or blue. No colors guards wear.
But when I went into hubs new prison, they had a huge board inside the processing room for visitors.........of ALL the banned colors. (not in the pamplet)
No place did it say you cant layer clothing. (like a sweater over another shirt)
and that was not the case at the next facility he went to.
Not the same at every facility. At least the booklet should say to contact the prison prior to a visit for specific *rules* for that particular facility.



One thing I've said (maybe even in this very thread) they should consider having one or two employees go thru the folks waiting and if they see someone wearing something that wont pass muster go tell them its not gonna be approved.
At least that way they may have time to go and change.
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  #192  
Old 05-25-2019, 09:56 AM
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Absolutely agree with this!

Also - the comment about some visitors claiming "but I wore this the last time" - that's not necessarily about the visitor making it up; it seems to be very random how the dress code is enforced...people DO get turned away even when they have been allowed in wearing the same clothes before, even multiple times (in an attempt of making sure they get in again). Policy should not change depending on which CO is working the visiting room during your visit.
Oh my goodness, yes, this! ^^^

I remember a brouhaha erupting over some of us wearing white pants. There was a woman ahead of me who was turned away for wearing white pants, which she'd worn before. I had white pants on as well, after having read the dress code rules like a hawk. There was absolutely no mention of white pants being prohibited. In fact, there was no mention of below the knee skirts and dresses* being prohibited, either, and yet everyone who wore anything BUT pants got turned away. That's just not fair when visitors are trying hard to follow the rules. It sets a bad example -- it is telling the public that the inmates are right when they say that the cops and the system in general break their own rules or don't follow them when it suits them or the mood strikes them this way or that.

*Edit: I should clarify that the dress codes rules explicitly allowed for below-the-knee skirts and dresses.

Last edited by Taliba00; 05-25-2019 at 10:12 AM..
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  #193  
Old 05-25-2019, 03:02 PM
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But here's the thing.. Policy is policy yes but there is a way to enforce policy and keep order without being rude and mean. Millions of companies and organizations do it every day. I've had this experience on my very first visit to a jail for visitation and it has left such a sour note in my mouth even though literally every other visit I've had since was positive by leaps and bounds. It would very much serve the overall condition in prisons to have some people training for staff. As I mentioned, my positive experiences were on Rikers Island where they are used to ppl sneaking in contraband, fighting, stabbing, etc but every single CO there that I encountered there still made me feel human in a very shitty place.
I absolutely agree that the best way is to enforce policy and not be rude while doing it. It is possible, some (CO's) don't unfortunately see it that way.
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:05 PM
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**Policy is policy***
Trouble with this is it can be very difficult to find out what IS policy. As was mentioned in regards to clothing.

For example, in the CDCr's visitors booklet it says no denim or blue. No colors guards wear.
But when I went into hubs new prison, they had a huge board inside the processing room for visitors.........of ALL the banned colors. (not in the pamplet)
No place did it say you cant layer clothing. (like a sweater over another shirt)
and that was not the case at the next facility he went to.
Not the same at every facility. At least the booklet should say to contact the prison prior to a visit for specific *rules* for that particular facility.



One thing I've said (maybe even in this very thread) they should consider having one or two employees go thru the folks waiting and if they see someone wearing something that wont pass muster go tell them its not gonna be approved.
At least that way they may have time to go and change.
Totally understand where you are coming from. Your prison is not the only one that has discrepancies in the policy. Best advice is to dress down and be prepared for anything, especially if it is a first visit or you have not visited in a while. It also helps to know where the closest walmart type store is. We have sent folks to walmart more than once to get different clothes.
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  #195  
Old 05-26-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarianna View Post
Absolutely agree with this!

Also - the comment about some visitors claiming "but I wore this the last time" - that's not necessarily about the visitor making it up; it seems to be very random how the dress code is enforced...people DO get turned away even when they have been allowed in wearing the same clothes before, even multiple times (in an attempt of making sure they get in again). Policy should not change depending on which CO is working the visiting room during your visit.
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Originally Posted by sidewalker View Post
**Policy is policy***
Trouble with this is it can be very difficult to find out what IS policy. As was mentioned in regards to clothing.

For example, in the CDCr's visitors booklet it says no denim or blue. No colors guards wear.
But when I went into hubs new prison, they had a huge board inside the processing room for visitors.........of ALL the banned colors. (not in the pamplet)
No place did it say you cant layer clothing. (like a sweater over another shirt)
and that was not the case at the next facility he went to.
Not the same at every facility. At least the booklet should say to contact the prison prior to a visit for specific *rules* for that particular facility.



One thing I've said (maybe even in this very thread) they should consider having one or two employees go thru the folks waiting and if they see someone wearing something that wont pass muster go tell them its not gonna be approved.
At least that way they may have time to go and change
.
South Carolina's prisons haven't provided a "handbook" in over 20 years but they share in the visitation information that's given to you when you arrived that the visitor needs a handbook.

The website is even more of a problem because what's not allowed in general, is at different facilities. I didn't think you could wear sandals but when I visited my love a few years ago, the facility he was at allowed it. The only hang up they seem to have is women wearing white tees, tight fitting pants (again the person ahead of you may get in wearing the same fitted type pants but the person behind you would get turned away). Don't get me started on the dress code. Unfortunately here, once you're turned away, that's it. And I hope you aren't traveling from out of state because that could have been their only time to visit. There is no such thing here as going to a local Wal-mart for a change of clothes because most facilities are in the boonies! And the few that aren't won't allow you to return.

I'll never forget the lady that wore the same outfit every week. She determined it worked and wasn't taking any chances to be turned away.
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Old 05-29-2019, 05:49 PM
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I'll never forget the lady that wore the same outfit every week. She determined it worked and wasn't taking any chances to be turned away.
Exactly what I've done. I have a bag of 'resort' clothing and that is what they are going to see me in at every visit.

Regarding the friendliness (or not) of the staff... they are people and need a smiling face just as much as anyone else. I'm not going to let the few unfriendlies destroy my attitude.
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  #197  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:12 PM
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miamac miamac is offline
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Originally Posted by choclgs View Post
There is no such thing here as going to a local Wal-mart for a change of clothes because most facilities are in the boonies! And the few that aren't won't allow you to return.

I'll never forget the lady that wore the same outfit every week. She determined it worked and wasn't taking any chances to be turned away.
I was told to change for wearing a shirt I'd been wearing for three years. It's the only place I wear it (black, to fit their ever changing color prohibitions, and I don't want it to fade). I normally swallow all of it with staff. I'm not looking for a headache and I don't want to leave a problem for my husband. But that day was the third time our latest visiting sgt. had a completely unnecessary approach to an extremely minor issue. I fully admit that I lost it. I was *that* woman. The CO who originally issued the request to change, I had no issue with. He did exactly what he was supposed to do. So the following visit, and after the sgt. had been relieved of her position (wasn't me, just a build up of complaints), I approached him and apologized. I wanted to make it clear that I appreciated the way he handled things. Haven't had an issue again.

And yeah, telling people to go to WalMart might work if you're visiting an urban facility but Cali is fond of placing prisons in the middle of deserts and cow pastures.
I think it's fair to ask folks to be dressed respectfully and within the guidelines. It's also fair for us to ask that those guidelines be posted on site as well as accessible online for visitors coming from a distance. We're really not trying to be PITAs. But when the regs change and there's nowhere to go to find out, how do we keep up? And why wouldn't staff want it crystal clear so they didn't wind up arguing the grey areas?

Last edited by miamac; 05-29-2019 at 06:15 PM..
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  #198  
Old 05-30-2019, 01:02 AM
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Sarianna Sarianna is offline
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I'm planning a visit for late this year and will be flying in from Europe. My biggest fear for the whole trip is that some random 'dress code' which has never been enforced before will be applied at the prison and I'll be turned away...in other words a CO will just not like my face and that'll be the real reason I won't get in while they'll say it's my pants or shirt It shouldn't be this way and it's maddening how this is happening frequently. Reminds me of those bouncers on their power trip when we were going to bars in my youth: some people just enjoy showing 'who's the man' and turning people away just because they can
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  #199  
Old 05-30-2019, 05:43 AM
Junebug11 Junebug11 is offline
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I just wanted to say Thank You BikerGuy, I'm sure your job isn't easy, respect and appreciation for you.

These are just my thoughts and opinions and not in any way trying to be disrespectful to anyone. I'm only a year in on a long sentence for my LO, so I have a lot of time I observe people. I love to watch families interacting with their LO and the staff. It's heartwarming to know there are those if us who will never give up on our LO's and walk this path with them. We are all here because of the same thing, our LO's have chosen to break the rules of society. My question is why do so many feel the need to continue to break or argue the rules and policies of the prisons?

There are clear cut policies and rules in place for a reason. If you adhere to them, things will go a lot smoother. I listen to people complain all the time about the staff and rules while waiting to visit my LO. I don't understand why so much hostility and attitude toward people who are doing their jobs and enforcing policy. I maybe naive in thinking that dress codes are pretty standard across the board for all institutions. (Personally I don't want to see what you were blessed with). We go to visit our LO's, it's not fashion week. Cover up, it's not difficult. I get you want to look good for your LO, but are they going to spend your visit critiquing your attire? Research the dress code and bring a change of clothing with you just in case.

As far as complaints about losing visits because of inappropriate behavior. You're visiting a LO in prison because of their inappropriate conduct on the outs. If you choose to break visitation policies by your actions or by being inappropriate you are breaking rules that are in place for a reason, you deserve consequences. Being (sexually) inappropriate in a visitation area full of people is simply disrespectful, there are children at every visitation I've been to. They don't need to see that, nor do the rest of the visitors. It's called respect for yourself and others.

This is not the life any of us have choosen but it's the path we are are all on. It is up to each of us to make the decision to make the best of it, yes it is difficult. But we can make it better for ourselves and the others we come into contact with during this sentence we are 'serving'. Do I want to spend the next several years seeing my LO in a crowded room once a week, not being able to hug them but for a moment? Hell no, but the alternative isn't an option! My LO is in prison, I would rather visit them here, than any cemetery.

I can honestly say that the prison staff where my LO is housed has made my weekly visits a whole lot less stressful. I make sure to thank each and everyone I come into contact with, including the ones that have not been so kind to my LO. It is their job, they deal with enough attitudes from the inmate, they don't need it from the families too.

It is not their fault we are having to visit where they are employed, it doesn't take much to be polite and say something nice. A simple Thank you can mean the difference in how their day is going.

But that's just my 2 cents worth.
I am not a CO but I have been visiting my brother (6 yrs. my senior) off and on (mostly on) since I was a child as he’s been locked up since his teens he starting off in “boys homes” I am now 36 so new needless to say I have more experience with the visiting process than the average person. When you said that we are all here for the same thing, to visit our loved ones who broke the laws of society, you are correct but the way I see it is our LO’s broke the law not the visitors so why do I feel like the criminal when visiting? I am nothing but respectful and courteous to staff. The staff however is the opposite twards me. The last two times I visited the woman at the check in and gives you the visitation badge was so very rude. I bit my tongue and remained polite the first time. The second time I went she was even nastier. She was not at the counter . As I was patiently waiting I hear her say you need to wait by the white fence until I get there ( this has never been a rule before) oh and the witch was walking to the desk already but still I respectfully stepped back the two feet to wait for the whole two seconds until she slowly strolled on over . She then asked me where I would be visiting him at. Huh... I don’t know..she then raised her voice and said WHAT BUILDING ARE YOU GOING TO?! I had never been asked this question. I give my name , i.d and his doc number.then they tell me where to go he has been moved a few times so it isn’t the same building every time. I then raised my voice to match hers she then looked at me with her eyes bulging and yelled “whats with attitude?! “ I then calmly explained that SHE was in fact the one with the attitude. She made a call to someone probably the co in the visiting building and proceeded to tell on me making herself seem like the innocent one. About 15 miny into our visit I was approached by another co and told to take off my jacket. I had already been cleared to enter she did say to keep it zipped all the way and that’s what I did. I always follow the dress code but they still give me a problem every time. Anyways my point is that they single me and most likely some others ... I am an attractive white woman and they are all black . I have noticed that they are warm and friendly to the black visitors . My brother has always insisted that the c/os are racist but I refused to believe it because I just can’t understand racism but that has got to be it because there isn’t any other explanation. The black, large and older visitors get away with wearing things that I would be turned away for . I cannot help how I look and shouldn’t be treated any different for it . It’s going to kill me not being able to hug him and see his face but that was the last straw, I will never subject myself to that kind of treatment ever again. This just happened a month ago so I’m still very upset . I guess what I’m saying is that not everyone is treated equally.
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  #200  
Old 06-01-2019, 03:11 PM
Bikerguy Bikerguy is offline
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Originally Posted by miamac View Post
I was told to change for wearing a shirt I'd been wearing for three years. It's the only place I wear it (black, to fit their ever changing color prohibitions, and I don't want it to fade). I normally swallow all of it with staff. I'm not looking for a headache and I don't want to leave a problem for my husband. But that day was the third time our latest visiting sgt. had a completely unnecessary approach to an extremely minor issue. I fully admit that I lost it. I was *that* woman. The CO who originally issued the request to change, I had no issue with. He did exactly what he was supposed to do. So the following visit, and after the sgt. had been relieved of her position (wasn't me, just a build up of complaints), I approached him and apologized. I wanted to make it clear that I appreciated the way he handled things. Haven't had an issue again.

And yeah, telling people to go to WalMart might work if you're visiting an urban facility but Cali is fond of placing prisons in the middle of deserts and cow pastures.
I think it's fair to ask folks to be dressed respectfully and within the guidelines. It's also fair for us to ask that those guidelines be posted on site as well as accessible online for visitors coming from a distance. We're really not trying to be PITAs. But when the regs change and there's nowhere to go to find out, how do we keep up? And why wouldn't staff want it crystal clear so they didn't wind up arguing the grey areas?
Believe me, sometimes I wish I had control of my prison's website so things like policy changes can be updated as soon as possible.

We all have our bad days. All it takes is one person to set us off. It happens to the best of us.
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