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  #1  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:18 PM
Minor activist Minor activist is offline
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Default There's a petition to abolish Federal minimum security camps

This is an idea that FCI McKean's warden Dennis Luther had decades ago. If someone is low-risk enough to live in a facility without a fence, why not put them under community supervision instead?

The petition points out the cost-saving angle.

https://www.change.org/p/jeff-sessio...0-19751bd6a6ee
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  #2  
Old 10-15-2017, 12:37 PM
onparoleinTO onparoleinTO is offline
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Having spent time in a minimum (in Canada), I had exactly the same thought. Why spend $100,000 plus per year instead of $35,000 a year to keep someone in the community? It's a gigantic waste for most prisoners. Minimum should exist only for long-term offenders on their way to release/parole - anyone who has merited a placement in minimum should automatically become parole eligible. There might be a few exceptions for people who simply cannot be released but aren't dangerous inside, but most people in minimum should be out very quickly.
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Old 10-15-2017, 01:14 PM
CenTexLyn CenTexLyn is offline
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well, hell...let's just do away with consequence for all non-violent crimes.

Part of prison, fence or not, is the punitive impact of a removal from the community. It is part and parcel of committing a felony. And if one were to adopt an approach of 'well, let them pay to be on a monitor instead of being locked up,' then you get into the disparate treatment for the haves and the have nots...
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CenTexLyn View Post
well, hell...let's just do away with consequence for all non-violent crimes.

Part of prison, fence or not, is the punitive impact of a removal from the community. It is part and parcel of committing a felony. And if one were to adopt an approach of 'well, let them pay to be on a monitor instead of being locked up,' then you get into the disparate treatment for the haves and the have nots...
I agree a 100% and this is in fact a part of why federal money crimes are now punished with prison time. Years ago stealing wasn't punished with jail time very often even though victims suffered - why should somebody that steals via a con not have to pay the same price as other crimes?

A felony is a felony; if one merits prison time so does the next one. That is why the amount of a sentence can vary so, but being able to pay your fine or restitution to skip prison makes those without resources pay a higher price for doing the same wrong thing.
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Old 10-19-2017, 04:55 PM
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And what exactly is wrong with that? If it's unfair, it is only unfair to the same extent that income inequality and economic insecurity in the society at large are unfair. The notion of paying one's way out of prison is not any worse than the notion of buying one's way out of employment by being rich enough not to need a job.

It may even be perfectly fair to set free, or never imprison, those individuals who, aside from their crimes, have the talent, drive and financial means to provide a worthy contribution to society other than by merely taking any job just to support themselves, if that. Or, let's face it, who just have the financial means to easily stay out of trouble and not become a drain on taxpayers and family.

Since there isn't much equality in society, only the pretense of it, why should things be any different when it comes to sentencing? Charge them a lot for the privilege, for example, and let their money help reduce the financial burden due to the services provided to people of lesser means, including the cost of incarceration, for those who end up incarcerated (by which I don't mean that it's not a good idea to let some of them stay free too).
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Old 10-19-2017, 08:05 PM
onparoleinTO onparoleinTO is offline
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But why is jail the default punishment? There are many other ways we could reinforce the consequences of wrong actions that would be at least as effective, which jail is not, and much less expensive.
And let's not pretend that felonies are something other than the often temporary decisions of a particular social and political order.
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:37 PM
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They will not get rid of FPC because of basic economics. First the Prison Guard's Union would never allow for that many positions to be closed. That would be thousands of jobs and cost the Union millions of dollars in due's.
The second reason is that almost every single "camp" is adjacent to a larger facility and the camp takes care of a LOT of jobs without having to pay for the labor.
Imagine closing all of the Unicorp jobs that inmates do for penny's on the dollar. Or imagine closing the Camp at El Reno. Now all of a sudden you have to find a milk provider for the majority of prisons in that region.
Then think of the politics. Do you think there is anyway Trump is fixing to agree with anything that costs thousands of jobs? Not happening.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:29 AM
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And what exactly is wrong with that?
We can debate whether to do away with camps, but if we really want to see change happen we NEED to see more rich people locked up.. We NEED to see more powerful and connected people locked up. More Bernie Madoffs. More Denny Hasterts.

For so long as the rich and powerful can buy their way out of prison or land themselves in cushy "pay to stay" country club jails, separate and away from the hoi polloi who have to suffer in much more dire conditions, there will never be much motivation by those said people in power to reform the system and prevent more people from being locked up in general.

Last edited by Nickel Timer; 10-27-2017 at 12:32 AM..
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:43 AM
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We can debate whether to do away with camps, but if we really want to see change happen we NEED to see more rich people locked up.. We NEED to see more powerful and connected people locked up. More Bernie Madoffs. More Denny Hasterts.

For so long as the rich and powerful can buy their way out of prison or land themselves in cushy "pay to stay" country club jails, separate and away from the hoi polloi who have to suffer in much more dire conditions, there will never be much motivation by those said people in power to reform the system and prevent more people from being locked up in general.
Any time 'pay to stay' enters the discussion, then that says people are mixing State and federal processes. If people want to try and effect ANY manner of change, they need to stay focused...
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Old 10-27-2017, 05:54 PM
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Any time 'pay to stay' enters the discussion, then that says people are mixing State and federal processes. If people want to try and effect ANY manner of change, they need to stay focused...
Yes, and most of those "pay to stay" cases have to do with petty misdemeanors like repeat DUIs that haven't reached the felony threshold yet.

I was speaking more to the principle of the thing. The fastest way to see change (of any sort) is to have those who make the laws (or those who speak in their ear) experience the same conditions everyone else faces for themselves. No special exceptions.
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:06 PM
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As a former inmate, I am totally against taking away federal minimum camps and wish that I would have been housed there. Prison camps have programs and systems in place that hopefully one day will be stretched to other classifications of institutions.

Future inmates will not all of a sudden just get house arrest. Instead they will be classified to go to Low's. I have a white collar charge and non-violent or not, the game is, you do the crime, you do the time.

Who doesn't do the time?
The offenders who give the game and the gang up.
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