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The War on Drugs - and the results of it A war against drugs, or against families?

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  #26  
Old 05-09-2011, 02:59 PM
Prochef Prochef is offline
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Ya i am in Wisconsin the police state. I put a thread in General prison talk titled what's wrong with this picture. It' gives a little information on the stat in Wisconsin prison system. Today in the Newspaper in Wisconsin a law maker or so called. Is purposing to try to cut out one meal a day to inmates in Wisconsin prison system and county jails. How barbaric can this people be? They already feed you slop three time a day. , and they won't to only give us two meals, Why so they can strap more family's into buying that crap from canteen. Wonder if he''s friends with the vending guy? The thing is until all family members of people in jail or prison or any other part of the correction system unite and become a voting force to here or points of view thing will always go against us. Just look at all the people on prison talk multiply that by 1,000 and or voices will be heard. We are the people my a-- There the people who are we?
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:10 PM
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I fully agree the war on drugs will never be one so lets figure out away to stop locking up our loved ones and get them help or bring back our jobs to put them to work where they can make it. A felon wage usually starts at 7.25 hr take away all the fines and probation fees and what do you have? Lets find a apartment, take care of kids, ETC what's left but a probation officer trying to find any way to put you back in prison. If they spent half the time in rehabilitation and job programs the have the P.O. lay off a little we might have a chance. In Wisconsin they say there is a 75% return to jail how many of them actually commit new crimes about twenty five % the rest are probation revocations. The say they don't want repeat offenders but they won't let us go.
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  #28  
Old 05-09-2011, 03:58 PM
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Check out new thread in general prison talk let our voices be heard what do you think i just posted it.
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  #29  
Old 05-09-2011, 06:07 PM
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I so agree with you all. I used to believe in innocent until proven guilty and the Constitution and the truth shall set you free.

THEN, I encountered law enforcement. They lied, intimidated, threatened, and coherced my husband into pleading to something he didn't do for deferred adjudication. Then, when they revoked his probation, the DA said, "I didn't have enough to convict you then, but I knew I'd get to revoke your probation." He said it in open court! Then the judge sentenced us to 15 years.

Nope. Constitution. Innocence. Truth. Justice . . . not in the USA these days!

Irony? Today I was picked (despite all my efforts to get struck) to serve on a jury! The DA must have had a brain fart or something. I can be objective, but the DA better be ready to PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT because I'm taking the doubt in with me!
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  #30  
Old 05-09-2011, 06:20 PM
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You hit it right on the head when you said you thought only the guilty are convicted. I used to think that way also. Most of the people who are in favor of locking everyone up and throwing away the key. Never had the U.S. justice experience. Say strong on the jury duty, make sure he or she is guilty. If any doubt (innocent).
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  #31  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:32 AM
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my husband is in fed prison for 10 years because of a conspiracy charge, not drug related. He was not guilty and the prosecutor told him that he knew he was not guilty but he could make the jury think he was. The conspiracy in this case was "intent"...not even an event that had happened! How can this happen in this country?

I refuse to believe that our lives are over, but that God can get us through this stronger than ever! It is hard and it is wrong. Someday these evil doers will pay their dues for what they have done to our loved ones.
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  #32  
Old 05-25-2011, 03:19 PM
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Faithwalker12 It is a shame to here what happen to your husband. This kind of injustice is happen all over the country. When prosecutors get away with putting the fear of life in prison to make us plea to some thing we didn't do. The conspiracy law is the most in just law in our country. There are so many of our loved ones in prison for many years for to doing little to nothing. The said thing is what the prosecutor said was said to me too, but with the conspiracy theory the state has no burden of proof. My sister's friends husband was charged with conspiracy and went to trial was offered ten years to plea out but he had only knowledge of a man who sold drugs. (wasn't involved in selling) The DA told him just by having knowledge that he was a conspirator and shoulld have to turn him in. isn't the the polices job. well any way he went to trial and lost base on knowledge and got 60 years in fed prison. Shame on them. Pray the federal system changes the amount of time served to 55 to 60 % which there talking about i know it's little comfort but it's something to hold on to.
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  #33  
Old 05-25-2011, 03:29 PM
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(Intent) Only in these day's can you get charged for thinking about a crime and not doing it, know someone but not be involved, have someone point a finger with no other proof then the word of a person already arrested and caught in the act. They are even using our thoughts to get conviction rate up for the DA's. I wonder what kind of thoughts the DA"s have. I just got out of jail with several now felons who where charged with thinking about do something but never committed a crime. Seen criminal complaint to prove it. I just shake my head every time i hear of another life ruined.
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  #34  
Old 05-26-2011, 05:35 AM
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in response to ramsay boys and prochef thread: hello hope ya'll don't mind me butting in but it seemed kinda comforting to know that i wasn't alone in the fight against the crooked justice system. same thing happened to my ex husband three years ago and he just has got out and now im going thru it again with a close friend. if you would like to chat im free.
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  #35  
Old 05-26-2011, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by frog8180 View Post
in response to ramsay boys and prochef thread: hello hope ya'll don't mind me butting in but it seemed kinda comforting to know that i wasn't alone in the fight against the crooked justice system. same thing happened to my ex husband three years ago and he just has got out and now im going thru it again with a close friend. if you would like to chat im free.
Would love to chat send me a message from prochef
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  #36  
Old 05-27-2011, 05:16 PM
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Default DA 100% conviction rate

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I feel the law schools should have a innocents project for conspiracy cases. I bet the will find more misconduct on law enforcement part, then they can handle. In the case i was involved in the head of the Drug task force was removed from his position due to lying in court under oath in a drug case. It hit the paper on page 12 in a small article and never heard anything since. Funny ha! but we were all over the paper before we were charged. The thing is every case that agent worked should be looked at, but it would cost the state to much money. Let not worry about the person serving time. See they don't think for every wrong conviction or trump up charges it affects more than just the person who goes to jail it affects many people in that persons life. Don't get me wrong there are some people who deserve to go to prison or jail, but a person should be giving a chance to prove the self innocent. Without the fear of crazy long prison sentences. Makes you wonder how many people took a plea to avoid the harsh prison time giving at trial. I know i did !!! If anyone is going through a conspiracy case make sure your lawyer shows you the State burden of proof or should i say lack of before you even think about going to trial. It's sick In my state the law conspiracy law has been changed 5 times and all five changes were made so you can't defend yourself in trial and the state doesn't have to prove nothing. That's why i called this post D.A.100% conviction rate cause you can't WIN. GUILTY OR NOT
Usually a DA who is after a 100% conviction rate is doing this for political purposes and doesn't have innocence or guilt of the offender on mind. DAs, in particular, believe that the higher conviction rate gets them voted back into office or for becoming the next governor of his/her State. And they are right in their assumptions--because the public wants to see "results" before they vote. This has been researched in the past and holds true today.
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  #37  
Old 06-13-2011, 08:00 AM
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have you known of a case not indicted by the grand jury? So the da/usa gathers up with this group of people, tells them all the bad things, the police story, that this people said this and that, and then they indict you, they never get to hear your defense. Why they dont put someone who has gone trough some sort of police experience? Even if one gets the chance to, most will concur to put the person in jail, i think that the only fair legal systems are seen on tv. "law abiding citizens" just hear convict, felon, and they think just the worse.... In these nowadays a person in jail is money, ordinary people gets rough sentences, government people which should get a longer sentence, gets just a slap in their hand... Now, good attorneys who are willing to defend you and do the necessary research dont come cheap. They hire the best people out of law schools to prosecute, and the worst to defend you... Those public defenders are just lame... But in most cases you end up making a plea bargain, at the federal level is just a waste of money to employ a expensive attorney if youre just going to plea, the public defender and the expensive attorney are going to do the same job, the only difference is that you can call the paid atty whenever u want for info. And actually the only attorney (federal court) who i saw doing his job defending against illegal search, was a public defender, however his motion was thrown to the trash by the magistrate.i deviated from the topic, but this crooked government always find something to charge you with, or conspiracy because you knew, or lying to a federal agent because you didnt tell, or obstruction of justice and the list goes on forever...
until you are in the bazaar world of a conspiracy charge, there is no way the general public has any idea about the injustice written into laws by the "justice system". Our country is in trouble and our system is broken....but we still must fight for justice! Fight for change and reform! Never stop fighting! Once we have become aware of an injustice, we must not ignore or dismiss it....we have to act on it...in some manner. Thank you for sharing your story. I will keep you in my prayers
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  #38  
Old 07-29-2011, 04:53 PM
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That is what Nancy Reagan started. Think that is what most people want? It's bs- government is spending $28,000 a yr to incarcerate non-violent people for their own addiction problems. Forget rehabilitation, that will not happen until they get out and want it for themselves! So fill up the prisons, do not address the issues, and while your at it Congressmen (that have NO idea) vote to screw our children with cutting funding for public schools instead!
That 28,000 per year should be used for treatment don't you think? oh but that doesn't fill the DA's conviction rate and they know with out help for use of drug, they will be back in jail, which keeps the PO's working.
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  #39  
Old 07-29-2011, 05:08 PM
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Just getting done with my sentence for the conspiracy charge. I am home now. While i was in i heard a brief news clip about the government of the U.S.A. selling large amounts of guns to the Drug cartels, and didn't hear much more after that. My case made more news and was covered for almost a week three news cast a day, but the people who were responsible for selling the guns to the cartels that resulted in hundreds of men, women and children killed gets covered up. Where's the conspiracy charge in that case? but sent us common folk to prison for 10 years for thinking about selling drugs. This country is turning into a joke but the sad thing is the joke is on us and effects us the common people, family and friends and children.
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  #40  
Old 07-29-2011, 07:32 PM
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Great thread.... Amazing really. In Florida there was a victory this week in federal court where our drug laws were ruled unconstitutional as they are written.... Here intent is not even in the vocabulary. We are dealing with this also and trying to reverse the damage of our previous attorney. Between the loose laws and mandatory minimums they leave little option but a plea.

Here is the article, this same attorney is also fighting the man mins amongst other out of whack guidelines. there ARE good attorneys out there, I never thought I would say that.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/07/27/...ogle_news_blog
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  #41  
Old 07-30-2011, 09:38 AM
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until you are in the bazaar world of a conspiracy charge, there is no way the general public has any idea about the injustice written into laws by the "justice system". Our country is in trouble and our system is broken....but we still must fight for justice! Fight for change and reform! Never stop fighting! Once we have become aware of an injustice, we must not ignore or dismiss it....we have to act on it...in some manner. Thank you for sharing your story. I will keep you in my prayers
It's good to know there are others who have taken the time and effort to research some of the crap in our justice system. The term, "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" is such a joke because it's just the opposite. It takes people like us, regular joe publics to call them to the rug on these things and make them aware that we are watching what they do. I had asked the lead Criminal Investigator Detective what the exigent circumstances were that caused him to tow my grandson's car and haul it to impound. He replied, "What does exigent circumstance mean"? We got the car back, the county paid the towing bill, no impound fees were charged and the Cheif of Police called me and said the investigation was dropped. This is only one example and I'm sure many of you have your own experiences with untrained authorities that want to do things their way. What a mess huh?
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  #42  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:39 PM
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I think people should review this post and add to it cause the problem hasn't gone away.
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  #43  
Old 11-15-2012, 11:13 PM
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John Stossel and author/attorney Harvey Silverglate state that Americans commit unknowingly at least 3 felonies a day and that is not counting all the misdemeanor violations. We have far too many laws on the books, no wonder we have so many people in prison. Although I am not for legalizing drugs per se, what we are doing now is not working. I perused through the Florida DOC website and looked at why people were imprisoned. At least half of the men and women were incarcerated for drugs or crimes committed to feed drug habits. I am not for legalizing drugs per se, but the way we are conducting the war on drugs is clearly not working. I`m not so sure that going the way that Holland went with drugs would work. Something has to be done and its not passing new laws unless its based on genuine reform. One way to start would be the repeal of all laws that are clear violations of the Constitution.
Another area of concern is the fact that people have gone to prison not for breaking a law or statute but for violating a regulation or rule issued by a unelected and unaccountable bureaucrat or government agency. Maybe if we decided to devolve the size and intrusiveness of government, the jails and prisons would end up half empty. The real root of all the drug abuse in the country is because many have a spiritual void in their lives.
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  #44  
Old 11-22-2012, 03:27 PM
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The thing that gets me is how the police can have someone, sell you drugs isn't that drug dealing?
:thu mbsup:
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  #45  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:52 PM
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Omg after reading all this i am so worried about my husband now he was with these ppl and one of them doing alittle side work and got busted with some meth 127.5g they let him go as long as he would roll on someone high up well he never did...now they are trying to nail his ass with the big boys. And now they r saying he is chaged with Conspiray to sale 953.7g and the 127.5g of meth....i did not what to do to help we dont have money for a att and the one the court gave him sucks @ss big time.
I'm sorry to hear that he is being charged with conspiracy. My husband was also charged for the same thing. He was working for the main person they were after (doing construction) and him and 20 other people were also indicted. He was charged with possession of a controlled substance with intent to manufacture/resale. They had no proof that he every bought meth, sold it, manufactured it, or had it in his possession at any time. He did have purchases of psuedo from the store and that is what they used against him. But, because conspiracy is someones word against his, the charge stuck. My husband was clean of the drug when arrested (they tested him) and had no association with the people at the time of the arrest. We were issued a PD (who was great, fortunately) and it took over a year to get through all the court stuff and 2 compitency hearings. He ended up taking a plea deal to lesson his time from the mandatory min of 10 yrs & was ordered to serve 6.8 yrs in Federal prison. If he had taken this to trial and tried to fight it, he would have been looking at possibly 15 yrs. (remember, everyone named is trying to lesson their time in prison, they will testify against him in a heartbeat. even if it is lies) None of the 20 people arrested walked away with no charges (keep this in mind) and no one saw less than 6 yrs in a federal prison. My advise to you is be sure that you go through every piece of paper the courts/arrorney sends you and more than once. you will find mistakes that will need to be contested & there will be things that his attorney will miss too. Be sure you get your motion of discovery too. that will tell him exactly what they have on him as far as why he was named in the conspiracy & what his involvement was. They have to provide that to you. If he has the opportunity to cooperate with the USAA and lesson his time, you should really consider this too. Remember that manditory min is 10 YRS. The only way the judge can go less than that is if the USAA agrees to go less. (that is what we were told by our attorney & the federal judge himself!)
I hope this helps. Good luck and keep your head up!!
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  #46  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:38 PM
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On my son's conspiracy case (13 defendants total), one person walked away scott free!!! We'll never figure that one out!! 3 others walked away with 5 years probation (from federal court no less!!) everyone else got anywhere from 5 to 10 years (manditory minimums). Everyone cooperated, except for my son who figured out early that he wouldn't be able to tell the feds any more than what they had already been told and therefore he would just screw himself by taking the lable of snitch and for what...nada!! The way the game works is that if you are among the first few brought in on the charge and you cooperate then you get the best deal. By the time they get to the poor guys at the bottom of the indictment, the information everyone has is now old news so they get nothing...except to go to prison as a known snitch. I have never seen anything in my life as messed up and crooked as the federal justice system is. I'm just disgusted.... and everyone of these "kids" on this indictment with the exception of one person, were all under the age of 21 and all were just a bunch of kids with an addiction problem...no big players, dealers, kingpens...just a bunch of kids that made some really poor choices. it breaks my heart...
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  #47  
Old 12-23-2012, 10:02 AM
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so... in my husband's case...conspiracy can also involve the victim and her brother who is a well known lawyer locally too right? Because they knew my husband would never roll on his co-defendent. How then do you get another lawyer to take on "one of their own" in a small town?
Yes conspiracy can be a mental thought. If they were told of the intent they can be charged. Conspiracy is a almost unbeatable case do to the fact that state's keep changing the statute's in there favior. Wisconsin changed the statute five times in the last ten years. Funny that the changes were made shortly after a case was won by the defendent. Consult a few lawyers in a different town to see what chances are before you pay them. I paid out my life savings to get the same results as a public defender got the others charged. Good luck
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:24 PM
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Wow... after reading some of the posts on this topic, I'm so glad we don't have laws like this in Canada. Below is a recent news story about a mother who knew her son was growing marijuana on her property but she didn't call the police.... at first she was charged, but the Supreme Court of Canada overturned the original ruling saying that she was not obligated to inform the police. (although it took 6 years in court!)

However, I believe that we still have some very specific laws that state that if a person knows about a sexual assault on a child that person IS legally obligated to inform the police.... so, generally, we are not obligated to be a police informant except in very specific circumstances.

Anyway, here is a quote from the news story:

Supreme Court says Quebec woman not guilty for son's marijuana crop on her land

By The Canadian Press | The Canadian Press Tue, 16 Oct, 2012


OTTAWA - The Supreme Court of Canada has upheld the acquittal of a Quebec woman who did not call the police on her son after she discovered he was growing marijuana on her property.

The high court, by a 6-1 margin, dismissed the appeal of Quebec prosecutors and upheld the acquittal of Nicole Rochon in a rare ruling from the bench on Tuesday.

Rochon was originally convicted in 2006 of production and possession of cannabis for the purpose of trafficking.

The Quebec Court of Appeal set aside that verdict and acquitted Rochon.
Rochon had entrusted her 87-acre property to her son, and returned to find it was being used for an extensive marijuana operation.

On two occasions, she told her son to remove the crop, but he refused.
Rochon was arrested after police received a tip.

At trial, Rochon admitted to knowing about the situation, so the judge convicted her after concluding she was obliged to tell police.
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  #49  
Old 12-24-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by KC63 View Post
On my son's conspiracy case (13 defendants total), one person walked away scott free!!! We'll never figure that one out!! 3 others walked away with 5 years probation (from federal court no less!!) everyone else got anywhere from 5 to 10 years (manditory minimums). Everyone cooperated, except for my son who figured out early that he wouldn't be able to tell the feds any more than what they had already been told and therefore he would just screw himself by taking the lable of snitch and for what...nada!! The way the game works is that if you are among the first few brought in on the charge and you cooperate then you get the best deal. By the time they get to the poor guys at the bottom of the indictment, the information everyone has is now old news so they get nothing...except to go to prison as a known snitch. I have never seen anything in my life as messed up and crooked as the federal justice system is. I'm just disgusted.... and everyone of these "kids" on this indictment with the exception of one person, were all under the age of 21 and all were just a bunch of kids with an addiction problem...no big players, dealers, kingpens...just a bunch of kids that made some really poor choices. it breaks my heart...
Sorry to here your pain. I bet there were big headline in the news which furthers the careers of the Da etc. The thing is been under 21 and nothing else was offered to get them on the right track is part of the problem. What will they be like in five years. Five years older and 100 times more harden haven to surive the system. Who really wins no one
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:15 PM
Prochef Prochef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC63 View Post
On my son's conspiracy case (13 defendants total), one person walked away scott free!!! We'll never figure that one out!! 3 others walked away with 5 years probation (from federal court no less!!) everyone else got anywhere from 5 to 10 years (manditory minimums). Everyone cooperated, except for my son who figured out early that he wouldn't be able to tell the feds any more than what they had already been told and therefore he would just screw himself by taking the lable of snitch and for what...nada!! The way the game works is that if you are among the first few brought in on the charge and you cooperate then you get the best deal. By the time they get to the poor guys at the bottom of the indictment, the information everyone has is now old news so they get nothing...except to go to prison as a known snitch. I have never seen anything in my life as messed up and crooked as the federal justice system is. I'm just disgusted.... and everyone of these "kids" on this indictment with the exception of one person, were all under the age of 21 and all were just a bunch of kids with an addiction problem...no big players, dealers, kingpens...just a bunch of kids that made some really poor choices. it breaks my heart...
When i was picked up and brought to the where house yes where house there was 102 people herded like cattle in a big building. Not all from my cas but it was a ICE sting. I never talked to the police the whole time my case was going on. There was 17 of use on the Drug charge 15 told on there self and others in the first hour of being picked up. Funny thing though no one new me or made a statement about me. I wasn't involved but was still convicted.
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