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Met While Incarcerated Were you introduced by a friend or family member after he/she was incarcerated? Did you meet as Pen Pals? This Forum is for you!

View Poll Results: You TRY to pay attention........
IF you do, you SHOULD be able to figure out you're being used 16 59.26%
EVEN if you do, OFTEN they're so good at it you can't tell until you're in too deep and hurt 11 40.74%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 11-23-2007, 11:05 PM
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Question There should be clues if your MWI is running game

This relates to a recent thread (not sure if it is in MWI or Husbands/boyfriends) where the question is if you can ever really know a person unless you've been interactive with them in the outside world. Can you ever really know someone with only the "prison experience" to go by.

I think we all know there are people, men AND women, who want to "run game" on someone from inside (and in the outside world, too, but that's a topic for another time) for whatever unsavory personal benefit they want (using for money, having someone to hold them down just 'til they hit the street and go back to their "real life", etc.)

That being said, I don't know that a person inside could always run their game if the person outside was paying close attention over time. If the person outside was looking for the actual reality of the situation and not willing just to "see what they wanted to see" as human nature often makes us wont to do. Small things/little clues add up over a period of time to give you a hint as to the proper direction to take for yourself, I think. Maybe it's on you (or me) to face up to it and acknowledge those clues for the good OR the bad. But many don't want to see them, or they only want to see one kind of clue. Sometimes we get caught up in "being in love" (in more than one way, love is blind). Some rush into being in love after only knowing a person for a few months and don't wait long enough to accumulate enough hints to make an informed decision.

It would take a VERY talented con to keep the whole facade up day after day after day after day in all situations, don't you think?

I agree with Moderator Patty on the three rules of a relationship (in my own words, just like real estate, LOL): communication, communication, communication. But what to do if you don't necessarily have that ideal fully open communication situation going? There are going to be people for whatever personality or childhood rearing reasons aren't able to be so open about everything, yet still they may be a worthwhile person with which to be romantically partnered.

So, what to do? How can one ever have confidence the person isn't using them just for what they can get while inside? Or, even, if a person isn't trying to con how can you know they will still want your relationship upon release when circumstances change for them? I think the first one is probably doable, the second one really hard to know with any true certainty until the actual time comes.

I kind of envision the first one like the scales of justice. Each day, each little situation in life puts a chit on one side of the scale or the other. Eventually the scale will tilt in favor of the side that is more prevalent. If you pay attention and carefully measure over time, there will probably be at least some little hints to notice that cause that scale to tilt one way or another for you to then decide upon that result for yourself. This allows for people to make mistakes (we're all human), yet the aggregate is what is telling and to be focused on.

What do you all think? Can a person truly be conned in one of these prison relationships if they're honestly trying to pay attention over time? If enough time goes by, will there usually be some kind of small clues to the truth?

Last edited by CharlotteLoves; 11-23-2007 at 11:37 PM..
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:25 PM
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Trust, first in yourself and then in anyone you want to be in a relationship with, romantically or otherwise.

People can tell you things but you know you have to trust your own instincts. Things come to light at some point.

I think that often in relationships that go bad one is not truly listening to the other, example: we need to slow down. The other does not accept, perhaps overlooks this. Listen to your mate, it's part of the communications process.

Great thread idea

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Old 11-23-2007, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlotteLoves
That being said, I don't know that a person inside could always run their game if the person outside was paying close attention over time.
Quote:
It would take a VERY talented con to keep the whole facade up day after day after day after day in all situations, don't you think?
You know the saying, "If you believe it, you can achieve it"? Well, IMO, IF a man convinces himself and believes at that time that hes sincere and wants to be in that relationship, he could possibly pull that "game" off...sad to say, but I strongly think its possible

Also, a while ago, I read on here how when a man was in prison he kept telling his wife that SHE was his sunshine...BUT after being released, he informed her he didnt need her anymore because he could see the sun shining for himself. I dont think she saw that one coming.

Last edited by RAG4LIFE; 11-23-2007 at 11:33 PM..
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAG4LIFE
You know the saying, "If you believe it, you can achieve it"? Well, IMO, IF a man convinces himself and believes at that time that hes sincere and wants to be in that relationship, he could possibly pull that "game" off...sad to say, but I strongly think its possible

Also, a while ago, I read on here how when a man was in prison he kept telling his wife that SHE was his sunshine...BUT after being released, he informed her he didnt need her anymore because he could see the sun shining for himself. I dont think she saw that one coming.
That's rough. Very sad and unfortunate for her.

Do you think that husband more fell into the second situation I mentioned that's "really hard to know with any true certainty until the actual time comes."??? Or not?

Isn't the true meaning of a con that the person who is pulling that "game" knows it's a wrong thing to do to the other person at the time? That they're consciously trying to use somebody? For the person who only wants someone to hold them down until they get back out on the street, they know when they're doing it that they have no (or little) intention of ultimately staying with the person over the long term and they fake it to keep the whole thing going with the benefits still rolling in.

Without knowing more, I don't know I could call that man a con or running a game. He might have just been deceiving himself along with her. The outcome was sad for sure, but it's a different situation than the one I was envisioning in labeling a person a con we should be able to recognize over time. I.E., a man who mostly isn't fooling himself and is mainly just out to fool her for the benefit he thinks he can get from doing it.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlotteLoves
I.E., a man who mostly isn't fooling himself and is mainly just out to fool her for the benefit he thinks he can get from doing it.
but thats what I'm saying....he might've really FELT like he wanted to be with her...during that time....and just so happened when he got out, it wasnt what he thought it would be...and I tell you, that newfound freedom can be VERY overwhelming.


Nevermind...I'm getting confused..too much thinking so late at night ...lol

Last edited by RAG4LIFE; 11-24-2007 at 12:08 AM..
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAG4LIFE
but thats what I'm saying....he might've really FELT like he wanted to be with her...during that time....and just so happened when he got out, it wasnt what he thought it would be...and I tell you, that newfound freedom can be VERY overwhelming.
So, let me see if I get this right. Do you think this is something that happens a lot? A lot more than "true" cons?

I don't know if it does or doesn't, it's scary and definitely a thought to ponder, though. I've considered that with my Latin guy, especially since he is a long-term inmate. Release must be a little like being in a candy store- SO many goodies to choose from. And for someone who's been away for years it's also got to be scary, too. For some that might be plenty to cloud their judgment or at the very minimum cause them to start thinking differently about that person who stuck by them through their bid. Someone else said something here at PTO I'll always remember:

"A man is only as faithful as his options". That's a scary thought for a lot of women too, with him in OR out of prison.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlotteLoves
So, let me see if I get this right. Do you think this is something that happens a lot? A lot more than "true" cons? YES

I don't know if it does or doesn't, it's scary and definitely a thought to ponder, though. I've considered that with my Latin guy, especially since he is a long-term inmate. Release must be a little like being in a candy store- SO many goodies to choose from. And for someone who's been away for years it's also got to be scary, too. For some that might be plenty to cloud their judgment or at the very minimum cause them to start thinking differently about that person who stuck by them through their bid. EXACTLY... Someone else said something here at PTO I'll always remember:

"A man is only as faithful as his options". That's a scary thought for a lot of women too, with him in OR out of prison.
Sometimes its not just about being faithful...it can be the overall adjustment of being free.
For instance, *in my experience*....he has had to learn that he doesnt have to be defensive with me...now while he was in, he WAS NOT by any means defensive *towards me*....I could look at it like, "damn hes changed...why he acting so defensive like I did something to him" and than *I* start acting crazy and defensive...long story, we break up...and now it seems like we broke up because HE wasnt right, when its really us not being able to understand how adjusting really affects him....am i making sense? lol

Basically, Im saying its not always about fidelity

Last edited by RAG4LIFE; 11-24-2007 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:30 AM
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Well a man learning he has other options or exploring them, can happen to any man. If a man is truely committed, then there would never be any other option. A man out on the street can just as well decide he has other options as well as a man in prison, that just gets released.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel_of_Sweetn
Well a man learning he has other options or exploring them, can happen to any man. If a man is truely committed, then there would never be any other option. A man out on the street can just as well decide he has other options as well as a man in prison, that just gets released.
BUT, a man just released after x # of years IN PRISON didnt have all those options...and now....BAM!!! he got 'em...now what??? ....than again...the amt of time spent in there makes a HUGE difference
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:05 AM
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I REALLY wish I came across this thread before initiating mine a few moments ago. I think this is the most significant dilemna that MWI individuals face and have to come to terms with. After "falling" for what I would consider my soul mate, I am forced to address warnings from my intuitive sense that I am being used and he will have nothong to do with a relationship upon his release, which is in a year. Kind of makes you feel like you have to decide if the risk of ending it on your terms and having some dignity is the righteous path. Noone wants or enjoys being hurt or to be made a fool of, so who sticks it to who first?

I agree with all of the statements made and really appreciate the morale integrity of all participants. Inmates ARE capable of "conning" those of us on the outside and, I believe, are able to garner that level of shady unethical support from other inmates. Just like we have eachother in this forum, they have the influence and input from others on the "inside". Such a frustrating issue and you can NEVER know for certain until the moment of truth arrives when they are released. Can't people just play nice and be honest for crying out loud!!??
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:18 AM
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i think that if a guy makes himself believe that he is sincere, he probably will eventually become sincere. i think that effort is genuine and should be regarded as such. human nature is human nature and NO man is exempt from it. if he tells himself that 4+4 = 0 long enough, he will begin to believe it. if he tells himself that the sky is purple long enough, and with enough sincerity, he will begin to believe it. people are creatures of habit, and the mind is shaped by habit. so i can't knock the felons on the inside that have good intentions but get lulled away when they are released. for instance, there are many men that truly DO want to do good, but the pull of that negative behavior when they are released is much stronger than the pull of those positive thoughts they had, and they are pulled back into their previous behaviors. the only felons i knock are the ones who DON'T have good intentions or don't develop good intentions and just play the game. which leads us to this thread, no?

however, no matter how much an inmate (be they male or female) wants to play a con game, whether they mean it or not...the signs are there. SOMETHING won't add up. there's only but so far a con artist is willing to go to get a reward, and the reward has to be worth a pretty penny for them to continue to go after it.

i don't see a con artist totally revamping his entire life just to play a prison love game on a single unsuspecting woman. and even if he does revamp it, little things won't add up still. it reminds me of those murder mysteries that are solved by a single carpet fiber, or by a blade of grass on a tire, or some other thing. one time i was watching a murder mystery and they solved the murder by finding a single carpet fiber in the trunk of the murder vehicle. even if it's something miniscule, he can't hide it forever, and you gotta play inch high private eye if you want to do your best to recognize game. now granted, it may take months for the truth to shine through...but for some of us, we have more to lose than others, and we aren't willing to put out as much as others, and this process is mandatory. i'm not saying one is better than the other but each is different and a woman has to make a plan for what she is willing to do in the name of love and how far she's willing to go. but regardless of her personality and desires, and his personality and desires, no good begets no good and no good can't hide forever.

i am a staunch believer that if you open your eyes and recognize you'll see the game going on....even if it takes a while and you have to have others point out the game to you. evil/negativity/bad intentions don't rest long, period.

i also think that people in mwi's need to set their boundaries and mean what they say. don't settle for less and you'll be likely to get less!

just my humble two cents!
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotedtoone
Can't people just play nice and be honest for crying out loud!!??
thats too much like right...and we wouldnt have a need for PTO lol
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Old 11-24-2007, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAG4LIFE
thats too much like right...and we wouldnt have a need for PTO lol
RIGHT?!
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:01 AM
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I have stated before. many guy's are using woman for $$$. It is the game in there. SOOOOOOO, you DON'T send a dime for 2-3 months... and tell him up front..... You say..things are tight sorry.....See if he is still writing in 3 months.

Keep in mind...it is survival in there...There survival instincts take over ...they do what they feel they need to do to survive..

I know some of my guys that have gotten out..have told me stories..That make me angry.

Last edited by Lesliezack; 11-24-2007 at 06:04 AM..
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:24 AM
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I will agree with you Charlotteloves, and some of what the others say. I had just read and commented on deveoted's thread. Devoted, it's great, cuz great minds think alike alot of the time. Instincts are there to help you.
You should see clues when it is time for consistency and truth to show. Now cons can produce it sometimes, but like Char says, if it is game it will eventually break down. I am about business, if you are who you say you are it should be represented. My first friend asked me to marry him and I only knew him 3 months! Crazy!
No matter how we communicated, it always came back to "I believe you can help me" Anything and everything was manipulated and twisted to help him. they are trying to survive! Some get in and pull something from inside and grow to strive. That's the kind of man who show it consistently.
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:17 PM
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sure, i think there are signs. whether it's our intuition or outward visible signs, We usually see the signs early on but choose to ignore them for whatever reason. he's cute or sexy or you're horny or lonely. as a matter of fact, i think this loneliness issue is what gets us women in a lot of trouble. We're afraid to be alone so We ignore all the signs... and that goes for every kind of relationship.

personally, i've always been picky, so i would write a guy off real quick if something, anything, didn't seem right. i'm a "vibes" type of person, and i either click with you, or i don't. now that's not to say that i've always made the best choices in dating, but i think i've done a good job of weeding out a lot of the drama. i think part of it is my intuition, and the other part is my mama she passed down many pearls of wisdom from her experiences, so she taught me what to look for (good and bad).

i agree with Charlotte... over time, if We're perceptive, We'll see the signs. however, We have to live in truth in order for us to see the truth in others. if We're in denial about some aspect of our lives and run from the truth when it comes to our finances, our health, our happiness, then We'll run from the truth when We see something that ain't right with our mate. i think this is all symptomatic of a bigger problem.

while i place a great deal of responsibility on these guys who use women while they're locked up, i placed GREATER responsibility on us women. We have to stop playing the victim, wake up and take responsibility for the drama We ALLOW in our lives.
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAG4LIFE
CharlotteLoves: Do you think this is something that happens a lot? A lot more than "true" cons?
RAG4LIFE: YES

Release must be a little like being in a candy store- SO many goodies to choose from. And for someone who's been away for years it's also got to be scary, too. For some that might be plenty to cloud their judgment or at the very minimum cause them to start thinking differently about that person who stuck by them through their bid.
EXACTLY...

Someone else said something here at PTO I'll always remember:
"A man is only as faithful as his options".

Sometimes its not just about being faithful...it can be the overall adjustment of being free.
For instance, *in my experience*....he has had to learn that he doesnt have to be defensive with me...now while he was in, he WAS NOT by any means defensive *towards me*....I could look at it like, "damn hes changed...why he acting so defensive like I did something to him" and than *I* start acting crazy and defensive...long story, we break up...and now it seems like we broke up because HE wasnt right, when its really us not being able to understand how adjusting really affects him....am i making sense? lol

Basically, Im saying its not always about fidelity
After having the benefit of a good night's sleep, I can come back and say I think I definintely see your points and I think they a really good ones to be considered.

It makes sense. There are probably plenty of people getting hurt not necessarily because a convict sets out to take advantage of them (which for certain does happen as well), but because the man (or woman) is in circumstances (prison) that cause them to think and feel a certain way, but their feelings may likewise change when their circumstances significantly do (release from prison).

It's about changing human need, and not only necessarily involving the fidelity issue. If you're needy in general, you will cling to that which contributes to fulfilling your needs at the time. When you aren't quite so needy and a lot is going on (release), you don't feel you have to cling so desperately anymore to that thing that was comforting you (the romantic partner outside while you were in).

So, an outside partner could theoretically be left by the convict upon release not necessarily for another person, but simply because their life circumstances have changed so much.
AND
An outside partner could theoretically also be left by the convict because they were never sincere about the relationship from the start.

These could be with or without another romantic partner to turn to upon release.

Gotcha. They are both concerns for the outside partner. I think the latter scenario would be much easier to differentiate with clues over time than the former.

I guess it would behoove any person who is looking at the release of a loved one to find out as much as they can about what adjustment from prison process for that person will probably be like and plan for the type of things/concerns that people already know from previous experience could go on when it happens.
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Old 11-24-2007, 07:08 PM
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mrschris, I think you have some really valid points as well and I'd like to point out some of the ones that really strike a chord with me as also things to be considered in all of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrschris
i think that if a guy makes himself believe that he is sincere, he probably will eventually become sincere...if he tells himself that 4+4 = 0 long enough, he will begin to believe it. if he tells himself that the sky is purple long enough, and with enough sincerity, he will begin to believe it.
I know for a fact this is also true. People can cause such things to happen within the minds of other people as well. In a negative context, it's brainwashing. It's one of the dynamics of treatment in abused prisoners of war and in domestic abuse situations. It helps to render the victim to be more pliable and consider themselves deserving of their treatment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrschris
i can't knock the felons on the inside that have good intentions but get lulled away when they are released. for instance, there are many men that truly DO want to do good, but the pull of that negative behavior when they are released is much stronger than the pull of those positive thoughts they had, and they are pulled back into their previous behaviors.
I think here you're referring to exactly what RAG4LIFE brought up, and I agree with both of you. Or even in a non-negative, non-hustle context, a long-term incarcerated person gets released and the possibilities of the world open up to them all over again anew. Their former relationship may or may not fit well into these new facets of life they are envisioning for themselves. Depends on the person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrschris
the only felons i knock are the ones who DON'T have good intentions or don't develop good intentions and just play the game...
Yes, and knocked these persons DO need to be!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrschris
however, no matter how much an inmate (be they male or female) wants to play a con game, whether they mean it or not...the signs are there. SOMETHING won't add up. there's only but so far a con artist is willing to go to get a reward, and the reward has to be worth a pretty penny for them to continue to go after it.
I think it's probably not so easy to tell for the non-scammer, but I think you're right here, too. There will still be some signs. Only they might be a lot harder to pick up on. For instance, the inmate who regularly talks about how he will go out and see the world, travel upon his release, but ummmmm, he's talking to a woman in love with him who is a strict homebody. That might not work when he gets out and if she isn't willing to involve herself in that desire of his and the desire is strong, she might choose to ignore that sign and think it's just talk on his part. Then it becomes a rude suprise to her when he's always wanting to be gone and not stay with her at home. The relationship crumbles and she feels used and unimportant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrschris
i don't see a con artist totally revamping his entire life just to play a prison love game on a single unsuspecting woman.
I don't either. They might try to run simultaneous games on a few women, but eventually they're likely going to slip up with it somehow, even if only in small ways, and get caught.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrschris
and even if he does revamp it, little things won't add up still. it reminds me of those murder mysteries that are solved by a single carpet fiber...even if it's something miniscule, he can't hide it forever, and you gotta play inch high private eye if you want to do your best to recognize game.
YUP!
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Old 11-24-2007, 07:18 PM
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NewAfrikanLove, you said things I'm sitting back here saying "AMEN!" to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAfrikanLove
i think this loneliness issue is what gets us women in a lot of trouble. We're afraid to be alone so We ignore all the signs...

over time, if We're perceptive, We'll see the signs. however, We have to live in truth in order for us to see the truth in others.

while i place a great deal of responsibility on these guys who use women while they're locked up, i placed GREATER responsibility on us women. We have to stop playing the victim, wake up and take responsibility for the drama We ALLOW in our lives.


In addition to "Man up"........."Woman up!"
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:32 PM
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i definitely think that the more attention we pay, the more we will see. and new afrikan love you said so many right things all i can say is AMEN! lol.
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAfrikanLove
sure, i think there are signs. whether it's our intuition or outward visible signs, We usually see the signs early on but choose to ignore them for whatever reason. he's cute or sexy or you're horny or lonely. as a matter of fact, i think this loneliness issue is what gets us women in a lot of trouble. We're afraid to be alone so We ignore all the signs... and that goes for every kind of relationship.

personally, i've always been picky, so i would write a guy off real quick if something, anything, didn't seem right. i'm a "vibes" type of person, and i either click with you, or i don't. now that's not to say that i've always made the best choices in dating, but i think i've done a good job of weeding out a lot of the drama. i think part of it is my intuition, and the other part is my mama she passed down many pearls of wisdom from her experiences, so she taught me what to look for (good and bad).

i agree with Charlotte... over time, if We're perceptive, We'll see the signs. however, We have to live in truth in order for us to see the truth in others. if We're in denial about some aspect of our lives and run from the truth when it comes to our finances, our health, our happiness, then We'll run from the truth when We see something that ain't right with our mate. i think this is all symptomatic of a bigger problem.

while i place a great deal of responsibility on these guys who use women while they're locked up, i placed GREATER responsibility on us women. We have to stop playing the victim, wake up and take responsibility for the drama We ALLOW in our lives.

You are so right!
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:09 AM
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I think someone could be in so dep they don't know if they are being conned or the con so good it's hard to tell.
Im in a MWI and my family think I'm being conned however I don't only once he asked for a package that was over a year ago he never got it as I couldn't afford it and he's never asked for anything since I have sent about $100 in total over a year and the occasional stamp,he tells me he loves me and is making plans himself to find us a place to live,so I can't see how i am being scammed but my daughter says he is just using me for the emotional companionship and he doesn't want to lonely when he does parole???

So perhaps i am one of the women who doesn't realise until its too late?
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:12 PM
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Time is your friend. Eventually, the truth always comes out...
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:29 AM
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I think this is a timeless question that is asked over and over. I don't believe there is any one answer. As the previous poster mentioned time will show all. Sometimes time is our only indicator, sometimes the relationship is riddled with red flags and people who care from the sidelines are screaming "what the hell are you doing, RUN!" But if you think about that, it is the same out here. There are men and women out here that equally play people as they do in there and sometimes the only indicator is time. You start to catch people in lies, or their behavior does not match their words.

I was in two MWI relationships. Funny enough because after the first I promised myself I wouldn't do that one again...but I loved writing and I just happened to meet someone through my penpals that we just really clicked. E was my first and we were together for years. Regardless of his constant play in prison politics, he got back into addiction. I can say I never felt used by him. I felt hurt that he fell back into addiction which caused the demise of our relationship. I did lend him some money which lead to the point of us ending it. However, I don't ever think his intention was to hurt me or for us to end up where it did. And I believe that's the con, the intent. Was the intent to start a relationship purely for your boredom? For you to use someone or get money out of someone? E knew I had some screwed up trust issues but worked through them with me anyway. He was a great friend and honestly I wouldn't be here today and the woman I am now if it weren't for him. I give props where props are due.

Now...JT my second relationship. I can honestly say I felt used and played. I stuck by that mans side while I was going through hell living up in Oregon. The moment he got out, he chose everything but me. And I think why that hurts us women and men is that we chose them over everything. If we struggled we still chose to stand by their side. If we hurt, if we cried, if we battled, we still stayed. I watched as he changed into a different man...which is fine...people change...I just felt played.

So I look at intent. What was the intent to start a relationship, to stay in it, and what was the intent when it ended.
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutepixie View Post
The moment he got out, he chose everything but me. And I think why that hurts us women and men is that we chose them over everything.
I really wish relationships were as smooth as we imagine them to be, ((they can be with equally yoked healthy minded people)) but it's difficult when we are bent out of shape mentally / emotionally, we tend to sacrifice our own well being / happiness / sanity / hard working earned money, etc. without the awareness we're even doing so.
I had to learn the hard way, early on in life that the more love you give to yourself, the more you appear to be lovable, strong, confident and that you come before anyone else - people gravitate to that, people naturally are drawn to what looks and feels good / healthy... this is why it's imperative to go into relationships as healthy as we ourselves can be. Still, there is no such thing as perfect and we can all be fooled - it happens, it's happened to me, I've done it and we learn what works and what we wont put up with - life, what a ride.
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