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  #1  
Old 09-23-2017, 01:42 PM
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Arrow NFL commissioner, LeBron James blast Trump for tweets against athletes

Quote:
Washington (CNN) -- President Donald Trump came under harsh criticism Saturday from the NFL and some of the NBA's top players after he blasted prominent athletes for kneeling during the national anthem, putting himself in the center of a controversy with significant racial and cultural undertones.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/23/politi...nse/index.html

Stay classy, Mr. President. Keep driving in that wedge... pitting Americans against each other like you seem so keen on doing.

Presidents are supposed to be uniters, not dividers of the people. Guess someone didn't get the memo.
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2017, 01:50 PM
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Gotta love Colin Kaepernick's mom's response:



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Old 09-23-2017, 08:08 PM
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CEO of the San Francisco 49ers Jed York called out President Trump for his "callous and offensive" comments that NFL owners should fire any "son of a b----" players on their teams who kneel during the national anthem before games or disrespect the American flag.

"The callous and offensive comments made by the President are contradictory to what this great country stands for. Our players have exercised their rights as United States citizens to spark conversation and action to address social injustice," York said in a statement Saturday.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...what-us-stands
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Old 09-23-2017, 08:23 PM
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Ouch... that coming from someone who donated $1 million to Trump's inauguration parade.
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:28 PM
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I don't believe that last one. I can't find it anywhere on the internet. Where did you find it?
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:28 PM
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It was on Twitter, along with several other NFL team statements that have been reported on in various media:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pat...trump-comments

That particular one could very well be a hoax though, as I can't find any other news reports covering Robert Kraft's exact statements yet either.

Feel free to delete it if there is no confirmation soon.

I found it humorous and fitting, none-the-less.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sass4221 View Post
I don't believe that last one. I can't find it anywhere on the internet. Where did you find it?
Well if he did say it, NFL commish Goodell strongly disagrees with him:

"[...]Divisive comments like these demonstrate an unfortunate lack of respect for the NFL, our great game and all of our players, and a failure to understand the overwhelming force for good our clubs and players represent in our communities."
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:51 PM
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Could be massive civil disobedience come Monday Night in response to the president's tweets...

Sounds like quite a few will be "taking a knee", and not just the usual suspects either.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickel Timer View Post
It was on Twitter, along with several other NFL team statements that have been reported on in various media:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pat...trump-comments

That particular one could very well be a hoax though, as I can't find any other news reports covering Robert Kraft's exact statements yet either.

Feel free to delete it if there is no confirmation soon.

I found it humorous and fitting, none-the-less.


Given Trump and Kraftís history, I think thatís something the Onion would post. Robert Kraft has always struck me as being classier than that, and definitely more careful with his words. If that were true, he would have come down harder on his players who skipped the White House (for some reason Brady was one of them, not sure the reason on that.)

I think Bob Kraft is more concerned about winning Super Bowls.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:41 AM
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It is funny though, I do agree with that. Imagine that, fake news in support of tRump. Whodathunk it???
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:56 AM
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If players want to speak out on twitter, then more power to them. But the playing field places them under the purview of their employer, and an employer has the absolute right to sanction for conduct that occurs during working hours. And ON THE FIELD is absolutely working hours.

And as a fan, I go to games for entertainment, not politarding...does not matter WHICH of the sides of the aisle it comes from. When the players engage in conduct that makes the game LESS entertaining, it ceases to have value to me, the consumer of said product.

If the players really want to make statements, then they can start giving up the rather generous salaries they receive and instead donate them to the various causes. But, funny thing...I don't see them willing to give up their millions that the same system they protest has been willing to give them. That makes them hypocrites.
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:05 AM
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Here is a local story about Yorks comments
http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/...s-12223626.php
And another from the MLB
http://www.sfgate.com/athletics/arti...r-12223798.php

Trump also uninvited Curry to the White House (that he didnt invite the team to yet)
Warriors have said they wont go.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...s-12223085.php


*If the players really want to make statements, then they can start giving up the rather generous salaries they receive and instead donate them to the various causes. But, funny thing...I don't see them willing to give up their millions that the same system they protest has been willing to give them. That makes them hypocrites. *

Kap has.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/08/coli...er-communities
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:20 AM
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Here's the post from the actual Patriots twitter page.


https://twitter.com/Patriots/status/911926759590957056
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:35 AM
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I love what he had to say. So true!
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:59 AM
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NFL players kneel and lock arms in solidarity during national anthem before London game

In defiance of President Trump's recent statement and tweets regarding professional athletes protesting before games, a host of players in London took a knee and locked arms together as the United States national anthem was performed.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nfl-players...ry?id=50056165

Oh, btw:

Colin Kaepernick donates $50,000 to Meals on Wheels

Colin Kaepernick continues to help the kids of Camp Taylor

Colin Kaepernick has donated $800k to empower oppressed communities

According to his website, 90K of the 1 million pledged has in fact been donated. For a complete list of the donations (to whom & how much) see HERE.
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:01 AM
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While I take a fairly liberal stance on most issues (except for ones where I am apparently a fake progressive with white male privilege or something,) out of respect for my grandfatherís World War II service and the meaning that he put into it, in his memory, I always stand and salute the flag. I donít do it for a President. I donít do it to make a political statement. I do it because my grandfather valued freedom, justice, and the rights of you and I (among those who are here...I understand we have some people on PTO who live abroad) to live in this country. I do it for the legacy of what the United States is, and what it can be.

I also understand this country has some ugly scars on its permanent record. Slavery. Denying women the vote until the early 20th century. Segregation. Internment camps. We have a history involving racism and sexism that is very much engrained in how we got here. And I am not proud of that.

What I am proud of is that we are a country that is capable of moving forward. I try to maintain a realistic view of how to do that. I believe in progress. But I believe that progress is earned, in some cases comes slowly, and that in an ever-evolving society that seems to get more divided with the propegation of mass and social media (which are, ironically, also positioned in such a way to unite us....itís a matter of perception, perspective, and how the mediums are used,) we have very unfortunately not only given a voice to progress but also to people who would opt to move us backwards.

Donald Trump is a divisive figure, but he also has a way of uniting people behind causes. The weird thing is, often that unity is against him.

To the point....I do not personally agree with what I view as a disrespect to the flag - the only exception to not standing for the flag, in my view, is if you are physically unable to stand due to illness or ailment (God bless, in particular, our veterans who have sustained catastrophic injuries at war that have rendered them to wheel chairs, they have earned the right to sit and salute.) Or if you are caring for a child or a dependent and it puts you in a position where you have to tend to them, for whatever reason, during the anthem. I hear the message of Kaepernick and those like them. I respect it. And I even respect their right to protest. I just do not agree with their method. I believe they have a right to it. And I would not act out against them for it. But if I could sit down with Colin Kaepernick and discuss his views with him I would tell him that I do feel his method is disrespectful, and very respectfully explain why to him. I would also respect his explanation for why. And I would also tell him I support his right to his method of protest, even if I disagree with it. Because I do believe in the First Amendment.

What I cannot agree with is suppression of that First Amendment right. While Trump technically can say whatever he wants to (and he does,) I take issue with him, representing the United States of America as its face and statesman (my opposition to giving him the title ďPresidentĒ not withstanding, and yes, I am aware of the whole ďif you live here he is your PresidentĒ argument, no need to remind me....) I feel his comment was irresponsible and an attack on the first amendment right of others.

It hurts my heart that there may be many more players kneeling or otherwise protesting during the anthem. At the same time....a statement needs to be made to this ďPresident.Ē That we will not have our rights stripped away for his benefit, nor that we will allow him to dictate what people are or are not allowed to do. We have a set of laws in place to do that, as well as several rights specified in the Constitution. So as much as it hurts my heart....I believe the message needs to be sent. And I believe the Players Union must stand behind the players. Some fans may walk out upon seeing the kneeling. Let them. They have the right for forfeit their ticket and seat to the game if thatís what they want to do with their hard-earned money.

This is no longer simply about BLM or police brutality. This is about an existential threat to Democracy.

As to players not donating money, they could follow Mr. Kaepernickís lead... https://www.google.com/amp/ftw.usato...ommunities/amp
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:26 AM
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I support every player, owner and member of a professional team who chooses to participate in this.

It's not about the flag, it's not about the anthem. It's about using the best platform you have to force a conversation about a subject that should make every last one of us feel sick. Using their time on (or in some cases off) the field during the single aspect of their job that promotes the unification of our country is absolutely appropriate.

I do think it's grown beyond what Kaepernick started (that seems to have been lost of some folks-- K knelt in opposition to the violence waged against Black Americans by members of law enforcement), and that's a good thing. It's about tolerance where there should be outrage, it's about the silence of people in privilege. There is no wrong place to have that conversation. The choice to kneel-out, not stand, not pledge-- that's a fundamental right as a member of our society. Like it or not, all the donations in the world don't speak as loudly as this. How many people who saw the '68 Olympians raise a fist on the platform know jack about what else those men did to better society? Right. But you remember those fists and what they stood for.

Nothing makes me prouder than the veteran's who have taken to social media to remind us of that instead of falling into the cliche notion that we disrespect a service member's sacrifice by not regurgitating words we don't mean or that don't hold true in this moment, we honor the rights they fought for by speaking out against oppression and hate.

Take a damn knee, because this bullshit is tired. It's ugly, it's unwelcome and eventually, it's going to drive us all to our knees out of defeat.

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Old 09-24-2017, 02:45 PM
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I'm going to rescind my statement that this isn't about the anthem. While I still feel that the overarching purpose of the boycott is a cry for the end of violence and marginalization of Black Americans, to ignore that the anthem itself holds no responsibility is false.

After I wrote that I pinned myself down and asked if I truly knew the anthem and understood its intent. The answer is no. I realized that the most I've heard (or heard repeated) is the first few stanzas. They sound pretty good. A little unity, a little triumph over the baddies. But that's not the whole song:

O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave

And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just
,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our Trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave



(added in 1861 to reflect sentiments of the Civil War)
When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!
And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the br
ave.

There is some debate about the words in bold and whether they were a reference to the (drafted/enslaved) British soldiers or the defeat of Keys' regiment by a unit of Black Americans who had defected to the British side to fight against the Americans. To the best of anyone's knowledge, Keys never clarified.

Then we have the added stanza from 1861 which clearly states that Blacks had been given equal status and that anyone within our nation that dares to undo this is to be taken as an enemy.

So let's say your Kaepernick or a supporter and you're refusing to stand for the anthem because you believe it to represent oppression of people of color. You would have traction to your argument. You could take it a step further and say that the notion of freedom is far more than a proclamation on paper, it's action leading to equality. Systemic racism is real and if your nation's anthem spins what freedoms means depending on your skin color, well...you take a knee. Further, if you feel that the administration is actively working to promote division and undo advancement toward freedom, then by the added stanza we are to take "Down, down" that threat. For some, that might mean taking a knee to force a conversation.

Separation of church and state arguments can be had another day, I suppose.

Last edited by miamac; 09-24-2017 at 02:48 PM..
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:15 PM
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I donít care what they do. The reality is that those in protest on the job may be supported by those that write their paycheck..... however, if those that do not agree(which I do not) stop buying tickets and merchandise then these players will have effectively bitten the hand that feeds them.

If you want to make a stand do it on your own time....and follow it up with action and money. Yes, Kaepernick has given 1/10th of his income so far......NOT IMPRESSED!
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:48 PM
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....and follow it up with action and money.
But they are taking action. Should they take a knee on their lawn at home? On a plane in transit to a game? When should professional sports players who have the eyes of the nation on them act?

People have criticized the cross-over between entertainment and politics as something new and (sigh) inappropriate. Entertainment has always been political. Always as in the forever-long history of entertainment. Shakespeare-- political. Homer-- political. Charlie Chaplin-- political. Mark Twain-- hella political. Erykah Badu-- political. Bob Dylan...Orson Welles...Madonna...every season of SNL.

You don't have to agree with their ideas or their end-goal, but it is the nature of entertainment (and we have decided that sports are entertainment) to discuss politics.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:13 PM
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Them taking a knee in a sports arena will help those who are oppressed become less oppressed? I donít think so.

And yes, all eyes were on them until the anthem was played....then many turned off their TVís to take their stand! Now what?

What these rich black players fail to realize is that the rich white people they are kneeling against are the ones buying the bulk of the tickets to these games. It is a NO-WIN situation.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsDeeKay View Post
Them taking a knee in a sports arena will help those who are oppressed become less oppressed? I donít think so.

And yes, all eyes were on them until the anthem was played....then many turned off their TVís to take their stand! Now what?

What these rich black players fail to realize is that the rich white people they are kneeling against are the ones buying the bulk of the tickets to these games. It is a NO-WIN situation.


A lot of people kept their TV on and I didnít really see the masses headed for the exits.

And some white people are with them. Thanks.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:40 PM
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The saddest revelation of all of this, most people who are outraged are clueless to the protest having nothing to do with the anthem or pledge of allegiance. He began his protest a year ago in response to the number of Black people being killed by law enforcement and not being convicted. But it's become to the uninformed or misinformed, about the United States flag, the pledge of allegiance, being disrespectful to those in the military, and everything else one can imagine.

I've become aware of how those same patriotic and headstrong people have no idea of the origin of the words of the pledge of allegiance and how far from the original draft it is, the SCOTUS stance on standing during the pledge of allegiance, and so forth when it comes to the historical information in this matter.

With all the tools and resources available, people would rather be dismissive and angry at someone doing what this country was founded on---unless it's something they're in aggreeance with.
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MrsDeeKay View Post
Them taking a knee in a sports arena will help those who are oppressed become less oppressed? I donít think so.
What would you suggest they do to get people who don't experience the same level of systemic discrimination to understand the level of the problem and make changes?

Specifically. I'm listening.
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:20 PM
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The saddest revelation of all of this, most people who are outraged are clueless to the protest having nothing to do with the anthem or pledge of allegiance. He began his protest a year ago in response to the number of Black people being killed by law enforcement and not being convicted. But it's become to the uninformed or misinformed, about the United States flag, the pledge of allegiance, being disrespectful to those in the military, and everything else one can imagine.
Totally agree, though Kap did state:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” he said of his protest."

so he did wrangle in the symbolism of the flag and by default, the anthem played while saluting it. I don't think he's wrong to do that, but yes-- the whole retort that it's disrespectful to military members or our forefathers or a whatever other thing they want to use as a reason to ignore the real problem is misinformed.

"Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, ‘Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. Out! He’s fired. He’s fired!’”
~Donald Trump, September 22 2017. Alabama rally

Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views.

~Donald Trump, Jan 22 2017. Twitter


Last edited by miamac; 09-24-2017 at 07:26 PM..
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