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  #51  
Old 11-18-2006, 09:32 PM
HOPE4FUTURE HOPE4FUTURE is offline
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Crzyrussell, I hate to tell you but the things that Saddam was charged with go on with our own government here in the GOOD OLD USA right where our loved ones are being housed. Read the articles in MI forum of the 22 year old Tim Souder that was left in restraints for 4 days and died. Who should hang for that?
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  #52  
Old 11-18-2006, 09:58 PM
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He wasn't on trial for leaving a person in four point restraints. His first trial ( and 7 others with him) is for the massacre of over a hundred people. he has other upcoming trials including one for the gassing of the Kurds (innocent women and children). There is no comparison. Unfortunately many people here in the US haven't got a clue to what really has happened over there except for what the biased media spoon feeds them. Sadly many people don't realize how lucky they are to live in the US where people don't have to suffer such abuse.

Last edited by crzyrussell; 11-18-2006 at 10:00 PM..
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  #53  
Old 11-19-2006, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haswtch
"The joke around Washington is, of course we knew Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. We still have the receipts."
-Ted Koppel
This whole situation is just waaaay sick.
Actually, I believe that Ted Koppel stole that joke from the late comedian, Bill Hicks.

"You know we armed Iraq. I wondered about that too, you know. During the Persian Gulf war, those intelligence reports would come out: 'Iraq: incredible weapons – incredible weapons.' How do you know that? 'Uh, well ... we looked at the receipts." -- Bill Hicks

I'm not trying to be nitpicky. It's just that Hicks was a brilliant man who was gone far too soon. He died in 1993 from pancreatic cancer at the age of 33. The more that can be done to remember him, the better.

Also, the fact that this was being said back in the early 90's demonstrates how long the WMD thing had been kicking around.

Last edited by techietype; 11-19-2006 at 07:26 AM..
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  #54  
Old 11-19-2006, 07:47 AM
HOPE4FUTURE HOPE4FUTURE is offline
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No, leaving a person in restraints doesn't compare to gassing because his death was SLOW TORTURE!
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  #55  
Old 11-19-2006, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOPE4FUTURE
No, leaving a person in restraints doesn't compare to gassing because his death was SLOW TORTURE!
Slow torture? Saddam and his gang wrote the book on slow torture. Chemical weapons are a horrible way to go. There is nothing easy or nice about them. Saddam is a vile person who deserves the harshest penalty provided by Iraqi law. To be honest I do not understand why so many people are quick to defend him. Have you not seen how he treated his people? The starving children while he was comfortable in his numerous palaces? Iraq was a living hell long before we set foot there. Maybe Americans have become blissfully ignorant of how hard life is in many parts of the world.
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  #56  
Old 11-19-2006, 09:38 PM
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I don't defend him at all. I am just simply saying that US does bad things also and that hanging is barbaric.
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  #57  
Old 11-19-2006, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crzyrussell
  • CIA- Goes after the bad guys.
  • Saddam, et al,- Rape, Murder, Starve and Repress innocent people.
I have to give you credit, you're very thick!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA

we have a very interesting history. and once you take it ALL in -- things tend to make a little more sense. education is key.
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  #58  
Old 11-19-2006, 10:18 PM
haswtch haswtch is offline
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thnks techie, interesting! Koppel didn't credit anyone particular but he didn't make it sound like it was his original line...the US is getting rich exporting death, it's really effin sad
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  #59  
Old 11-19-2006, 10:19 PM
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That is nothing new. Nothings is ever cut and dry or black and white. The cowboy in the white hat only exists in movies. Sometimes bad things have to be done to control bad people. History shows that FBI agents and lawyers don't deter those who wish to harm the US or our friends. It didn't work for Clinton. We were hit 7 times by Al Queda when he was President. I guess the FBI didn't have them shaking in their boots.
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  #60  
Old 11-19-2006, 10:33 PM
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United States Rides Weapons Bonanza Wave

By Frida Berrigan
Editor: Emily Schwartz Greco, IPS

11/18/06 "fpif" -- -- War, instability, and high oil prices have created a perfect storm of profit for the world's weapons manufacturers. This year, military analysts predict the biggest arms bonanza since 1993 … which is saying something because in the aftermath of the first Gulf War the global industry reaped the benefits of a $42 billion arms race.

As the world's largest producer and exporter, the United States is riding the wave. For fiscal year 2006, which ended on September 31, the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency churned out notices for $21 billion in arms sales offers . In most cases, that agency is required to notify Congress of all potential major arms deals worth more than $14 million. In one typical day—September 28—the DSCA issued notification on $5.5 billion in agreements. South Korea would get $1.5 billion in Patriot missile equipment and other hardware, Turkey was offered a $2.9 billion package including 30 F-16 fighter planes, while Jordan and Chile were also offered weapons packages.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle15677.htm
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  #61  
Old 11-19-2006, 10:51 PM
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death is death...and i don't agree that anyone can sit and claim that one tortourous death is better than another.

still all in all, i have heard millions of times over from those born in other countries (i live in an extremely culturally diverse area) that the USA is one of the most wonderful places in the world to live, despite it's corruption. the prison life we have here is a blessing compared to the every day life they have there.

i guess you don't know what ya got til it's gone...

crzy, i have to agree with you on your points.

since i don't believe sadaam hussein is even alive any more this comment is useless, BUT if he were alive...i say send him back to his country and let the families of those tortured handle him appropriately.
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  #62  
Old 11-19-2006, 11:15 PM
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crzy - you're virtually condoning mass retaliation. Because of the Twin Towers, we went into Afghanistan. Fine. Understood. Agreed. Then, because that didn't seem to be enough, we went to Iraq . . . like any miserable war-monger - "if you kill one of ours, we will kill 100 of yours." Specifically prohibited in the Geneva Conventions.
And then there really is the little problem of no actual connection between Iraq and 9/11. That means the war had no justification. That's not about the CIA or FBI (who do not always go after the bad guys; sometimes they are sicced on the good guys, too).
And now I'll say something that I'll probably get flamed for: who were those 3,000 people who died, that they should be worth the deaths of hundreds of thousands and despoliation of an entire country? They, and all their family members, have my unending sympathies but they are not MORE valuable than all the others who are dead because of this. They are just closer to us, which seems to allow us to make the Iraqis "less", and therefore acceptable sacrifices.
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  #63  
Old 11-20-2006, 05:40 AM
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No flame here Nimuay. People die every day in this world - in this country. People who died in the twin towers are somehow glorified because a plane crashed into a building but yet they are somehow seen as heros or that their lives had more meaning or worth than you or I. Why is that? If we are going to glorify one life then shouldn't we glorify them all? If we are going to say that one human life is worth taking by force (execution) then shouldn't we all be subject to that taking?

By the way, I AM very, very sorry that the people that died in the twin towers on 9/11 died. We should try to remember that hundreds of others died that day too either by natural causes or by accidents of some sort. EVERY life is valuable.
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  #64  
Old 11-20-2006, 05:43 AM
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That is exactly how I feel too, Crone!
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  #65  
Old 11-20-2006, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haswtch
United States Rides Weapons Bonanza Wave

By Frida Berrigan
Editor: Emily Schwartz Greco, IPS

11/18/06 "fpif" -- -- War, instability, and high oil prices have created a perfect storm of profit for the world's weapons manufacturers. This year, military analysts predict the biggest arms bonanza since 1993 … which is saying something because in the aftermath of the first Gulf War the global industry reaped the benefits of a $42 billion arms race.

As the world's largest producer and exporter, the United States is riding the wave. For fiscal year 2006, which ended on September 31, the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency churned out notices for $21 billion in arms sales offers . In most cases, that agency is required to notify Congress of all potential major arms deals worth more than $14 million. In one typical day—September 28—the DSCA issued notification on $5.5 billion in agreements. South Korea would get $1.5 billion in Patriot missile equipment and other hardware, Turkey was offered a $2.9 billion package including 30 F-16 fighter planes, while Jordan and Chile were also offered weapons packages.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle15677.htm
I watched the stock market the day after the democrats 'took' both the house and congress, and I was literally sick to my stomach that our arms would be sold to ther countries, as the GLOBAL market for weapons has a 'huge potential'. would someone please tell me what treason really is?

further, many countries would buy those amrs with American foreign aid!
another interesting twist to this, that I am certain crzyrussell will adore ;

Quote:
Halliburton scored almost $1.2 billion in revenue from contracts related to
Iraq in the third quarter of 2006, leading one analyst to comment: "Iraq was better than expected... Overall, there is nothing really to question or be skeptical about. I think the results are very good."

Very good indeed. An estimated 655,000 dead Iraqis, over 3,000 dead coalition troops, billions stolen from Iraq's coffers, a country battered by civil war - but Halliburton turned a profit, so the results are very good.
Very good certainly for Vice President Dick Cheney, who resigned from Halliburton in 2000 with a $33.7 million retirement package (not bad for roughly four years of work). In a stunning conflict of interest, Cheney still holds 50,000 stock options in the company. Why pursue diplomacy when you can rake in a personal fortune from war?
Yet Cheney isn't the only one who has benefited from the Bush administration's destructive policies. The Bush family has done quite nicely too. Just a few examples:
http://www.heatherwokusch.com/index....article&sid=86
yep, there you have it folks. peace isn't profitable.
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  #66  
Old 11-20-2006, 12:07 PM
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This all makes me sick. And people wonder why I am anti-DP. Thank you Billie Jo for pointing out that there was no reason to go back into Iraq.
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  #67  
Old 11-20-2006, 04:17 PM
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Folks I have decided that there is sometimes no reasoning with people that are going to follow there "leader" even if like the Lemmings it is off a cliff. But I cannot feel bad about them for we Germans did the same thing. In sixty years the lesson has not been learned.

We are each intelligent, thinking individuals, we have a right to make decisions on our own, we do not have to say "My country right or wrong" in fact that is an insult to our nation.

Saddam was a man who did some horrible things do I feel bad for those he killed yes I do, but it has nothing to do with me or us as a nation, unless, you want to hold the US government as accessory for providing the WMDs to commit the crimes. So why is not any one from the U.S. being hung? Because it won, and the victor writes history as we all know.

Does Saddam deserve to die, no, but he does deserve prison. No one deserve to die and the mere fact that the U.S. government set up a situation where he can be hung, makes the goverment of this country no better than his.

The DP is wrong period!

I feel bad for the families and those who died on 9/11, however, Saddam had nothing to do with that, he did support terrorism, but too much evidence has been gathered from other more believable sources than the US Intelligence (including the CIA) that he did not have any connections to 9/11. The invasion of Iraq is a war crime pure and simple, there can be no other conclusion if you are willing to not believe the propaganda and to do the research.

As for the CIA crsy, if they only go after the bad guys, then why does Italy have wanted dead or alive warrants on 9 CIA agents for the kidnapping of some of her citizens?

I thought Italy was an ally - one of the good guys?

Or do you only qualify if you goose step to the tune of the United States?

Patti
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  #68  
Old 11-20-2006, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoLady
I feel bad for the families and those who died on 9/11, however, Saddam had nothing to do with that, he did support terrorism, but too much evidence has been gathered from other more believable sources than the US Intelligence (including the CIA) that he did not have any connections to 9/11. The invasion of Iraq is a war crime pure and simple, there can be no other conclusion if you are willing to not believe the propaganda and to do the research.

Patti
Although there are many bad things that you can say about Saddam Hussein, he DID NOT support terrorism. The closest that he ever came to supporting a terrorist act was the failed assasination attempt against the first President Bush. Saddam saw terrorism as a threat to his rule.

Hezbollah is controlled from Iran, Saddam Hussein's arch enemy. He certainly was not going to back them. Al Queda is a fundamentalist Sunni group that among other things, wants to reestablish the califate, which is essentially a Muslim controlled theocracy that would unite all of the Arab states under the rule of a religious leader. Saddam was pretty much a secular guy. The last thing he wanted was to be overthrown by fundamentalists.

All of this was known prior to our invasion of Iraq. The Bush Administration certainly knew there were no real Al Queda ties to Saddam. They knew that there were no Saddam links to 9/11. Yet, they tried to convince the public that there were. The news media sat on their hands during the public deception. Shame on all of them.
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  #69  
Old 11-20-2006, 06:39 PM
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Techie, I only disagree one point, how do you define supporting terrorism?

Did not Saddam pay the families of suicide bombers in Israel, now I admit my daughter and son -in-law have gotten it wrong in the past, but living in Israel, would think being closer to the situation they would know. Of course they have their propagada too, so I don't know for sure.

Patti
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  #70  
Old 11-20-2006, 07:04 PM
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I personally do not see sending money to the surviving family members of suicide bombers as supporting terrorism. First of all, it is after the fact. The damage is already done. But more importantly, we do not hold people responsible for crimes committed by their relatives. I think that the same ought to apply here.
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  #71  
Old 11-20-2006, 07:06 PM
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"The US doesn't intentionally target civilians (unlike some people we know.) But they inevitably get killed. The rules of engagement were very clear in regards to targeting civilians to the point of putting us in greater danger. If you look at the historical data of the major wars in the past hundred years you will see that the rate of civilians killed gets lower with every war. If Bush is guilty of war crimes (he hasn't been charged or convicted) then so Blair and heads of state of several countries should be brought up on "charges" also."

Crzy, I messed up I am sorry, I hit the wrong button and did not realize it.

If you want to go ahead and repost your original post, please do so.

I am sorry.

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  #72  
Old 11-20-2006, 07:10 PM
HOPE4FUTURE HOPE4FUTURE is offline
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Hang Them Al!!! Lol
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  #73  
Old 11-20-2006, 07:57 PM
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I do not believe that anyone has the right to take a life but GOD. Now make him drive himself crazy in confinement.
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  #74  
Old 11-20-2006, 09:17 PM
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They could pipe achy breaky heart into his cell 24/7
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  #75  
Old 11-20-2006, 09:43 PM
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Or how about "MMMMMBop?" LOL
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