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  #1  
Old 09-19-2006, 11:16 AM
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Default Study says U.S. prisons breed Islamic extremists

Sept. 19, 2006

By LARA JAKES JORDAN Associated Press Writer
© 2006 The Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Jailed Islamic extremists with violent interpretations of the Quran are taking advantage of scarce religious monitoring programs to breed terrorists in U.S. prisons, a study released Tuesday shows.
State and local prison officials struggle to track radicalized behavior by inmates or religious counselors, the joint study by George Washington University and the University of Virginia found.
Article: U.S. prisons

That article has now been archived but here's the same report from another source:
By LARA JAKES JORDAN
WASHINGTON Sep 19, 2006 (AP)— U.S. prisons are becoming major breeding grounds for Islamic terrorists, but state and local authorities are too cash-strapped to prevent or track recruiting, a new report concludes. Article: ABC News
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Old 09-19-2006, 12:17 PM
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I don't think that I am going to click the link.

I am not certain that "Jailed Islamic extremists with violent interpretations of the Quran are taking advantage of scarce religious monitoring programs to breed terrorists in U.S. prison" in WI.

at this point, all that I am thinking is "uhhhhhhh whuteverrrrrrrr"... does that make me a bad person?
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Old 09-19-2006, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, a counterterrorism consultant, told senators that "chilling" interpretations of the Quran were given to prison inmates when he worked for the al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, an international charity that served as a major al-Qaida financier.
The readings urged Muslims "to wage war against non-Muslims who have not submitted to Islamic rule," Gartenstein-Ross said in prepared testimony to the Senate panel.
consultant = lobbyist. there ya go. another witch hunt. but that is merely my humble opinion.
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:52 PM
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Dear Lord What on earth could be next -- scrutinizing and bugging the home phone of the loved ones who come to visit them?! Intercepting the mail they receive at their home?! I'm with you BillieJoe -- I dare not click the link, though it seems you couldn't resist! I can, because I'm really not interested in reading about the "paranoia".
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:17 PM
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it sounds like they are going to use terrorism to make a buck somehow, monitoring the religion our prisoners so badly need! just horrible!
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Old 09-19-2006, 07:35 PM
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This is total bs. How many current terrorist suspects have come out of US prisons? My educated guess is none. The government is killing two birds with one stone here.....limiting even more the civil liberties of inmates and whiping up more fear of Islam.
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:36 PM
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TOTALLY, danielas, which is why I can't even do it to my eyes to read the article. I know it's loaded with unproductive b.s. What next -- no more Islam in prison?! As it is already, the law on the inside think the allah worshippers are a gang.

I do declare, NOTHING in this world is getting better -- EVERYTHING seems to be getting worse, no matter how much work activists and petitioners do -- overall with the exception of a few here, a few there, nothing is really getting better.
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Old 09-22-2006, 11:45 PM
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It seems to me that in this election year the Republicans have nothing to sell but fear itself. This is yet another example.

Just to put things into perspective, during the 1960's and 70's the Soviet Union had approximately 40,000 nuclear weapons of various types poised to destroy us on only a minute's notice. Of course, we had a similar number of weapons aimed at them. It seems to me that even in the worst case scenario, the threat posed by international terrorism is a relative bump in the road. That is not to say that there are not real dangers, only that they pale in comparison to the threats of the past.

We managed to survive the cold war without shreding the U.S. Constitution or the Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War. In fact, not doing so was part of our strategy for winning over the hearts and minds of people in developing countries; a strategy that was more or less successful. That same strategy would probably come in very handy now.

Last edited by techietype; 09-22-2006 at 11:59 PM..
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Old 09-22-2006, 11:58 PM
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I didnt click either- media hype once again!
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Old 09-23-2006, 11:23 AM
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There are more and more people, scientists, engineers, scholars, military, independent journalists-analysing 9/11 and totally debunking the government's official story of what happened that day. Personally, I don't believe that Muslim extremists had anything to do with 9/11. I feel that our government has manufactured the Muslim terrorist threat to scare us into submission.

There are alot of free documentaries that re-evaluate 9/11 available on Google video-just type "911" into the search bar and many will come up.

Last edited by danielas; 09-23-2006 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 09-23-2006, 12:00 PM
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The US study ('prisons being a breeding ground for extremists') is just the latest in a series of studies conducted over the last few years in the Middle East, France, Spain, Britain and Australia, all basically reaching the same conclusions.
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Old 09-23-2006, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielas
There are more and more people, scientists, engineers, scholars, military, independent journalists-analysing 9/11 and totally debunking the government's official story of what happened that day. Personally, I don't believe that Muslim extremists had anything to do with 9/11. I feel that our government has manufactured the Muslim terrorist threat to scare us into submission.
One of my old bosses once said that information vacuums tend to get filled with rumour. Unfortunately, the present clique in Washington has an aversion to being forth right about their failings on 9/11. In my humble opinion that only fuels conspiracy theorists.

There are many things about 9/11 that are indisputable. For instance, there is no doubt that two airplanes struck the World Trade Center. We have video of it. We know who was on the airplanes. We know quite a bit about the planning of the attack. We also know that the designers of the building did not design the building to survive such an attack or provide a way to fight that sort of fire. I have no doubt that those things happened.

What also do not doubt is that in the nine months prior to the attack that the administration did not have their eye on the ball, that they ignored warnings about Al Queda from former Clinton Adminsitration officials. That they were trying to find a way to go to war with Iraq. There is plenty of evidence to support that view.

But what I refuse to believe is that the Bush Adminstration knowing let this attack happen. It's pretty obvious that this administration is incompetent. I find that explanation covers most of what has happened over the past six years. The results of that incompetence may be no different than if they had deliberately plotted to do such an evil thing, but it does not change the fact that the failings were the result of incompetence.

That said, exploiting fear is a great way to win elections. And yes, I do find they way that fear has been used to be very evil.
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Old 09-25-2006, 05:23 AM
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I didn't click the link either; maybe I will later (maybe I won't)... but I suspect it to be more propaganda to sway the votes. 2006 is only 3 months away from becoming 2007 -- then 2008 election year.

Quote:
exploiting fear is a great way to win elections. And yes, I do find they way that fear has been used to be very evil.
Agree with ya' on that one.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techietype
There are many things about 9/11 that are indisputable. For instance, there is no doubt that two airplanes struck the World Trade Center. We have video of it.
What about the Pentagone attack ? How come there are no videos ???

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Originally Posted by techietype
We know who was on the airplanes. .
Are you sure ?

http://www.reopen911.org/hijackers.htm

Phil
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:04 AM
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Yes!! You mean to tell me that one of the most monitored buildings in the world didn't catch a good glimpse of whatever hit the pentagon? ...

There is unrefutable scientific evidence as well as testimony from witnesses that those two towers were brought down to powder by powerfull explosives....yet the gov't expects us to believe that none were used

There was insider trading being done the week before 9/11. Speculators betting billions that United and American airlines stock would plummett....and it did. Who profited? Why won't the gov't come clean

The list of inconsistencies between reality and the gov't story is seemingly endless.
To those of us in military aviation-nothing aeroplane related that day made sense.

How did amateur pilots navigate those planes without the assistance of ground control?--impossible
Why were no jets scrambed? Jets were scrambled for a lot less 67 times that year prior to 9/11?
In pictures of the pentagon attack that have leaked out...why is there no wreckage from a large plane. It looks like a missle, bunker buster type weapon hit the pentagon.
The famous cell phone calls supposedly made from the planes were not possible. Cell phone signal does not reach past 2000 feet.
The list goes on & on.

Last edited by danielas; 09-25-2006 at 08:36 AM..
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:17 AM
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sorry, i had a comment but once i posted it i decided it was better left unsaid....
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Old 09-26-2006, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielas
Yes!! You mean to tell me that one of the most monitored buildings in the world didn't catch a good glimpse of whatever hit the pentagon? ...
For what it is worth, I do claim a certain amount of expretise about video cameras and how they see things. I've spent my entire career working in television and broadcast engineering.

You can find video of the Pentagon crash here:



and here:



It is pretty clear that this video was taken by time lapse security cameras, and I find nothing terribly suspect about it. The plane was moving at speeds of at several hundred miles per hour. Even if the camera was shooting frames at the regular speed of 30 frames per second I would only expect to see the plane in a few of those frames. With a camera that is only snapping pictures several times a second it is not surprising that the camera did not snap a frame at the moment of impact.

Also, video cameras of the type used for security purposes are not designed to stop action. Putting it in terms of a traditional photographic camera, they do not have very fast shutters. Even if the camera snapped a picture as the plane was mid way across the frame I would expect it to be very blurry.

The plane that hit the Pentagon was moving at least three hundred miles an hour. That converts to 440 feet per second. Unless the camera happened to fire at just the right moment, I am not surprised that there is no good video. Also, it seems to me that any of the cameras that were located close to the point of impact would have their cabling destroyed by the crash. That would explain why they do not have video after the plane hit. But what if the recorders were located in the same area as the crash?

Finally, it isn't very hard these days to produce very credible looking video that is completely fabriacted. For those who are conspiratorially minded, why not just make some better video that is completely false? The technology certainly exists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by danielas
There is unrefutable scientific evidence as well as testimony from witnesses that those two towers were brought down to powder by powerfull explosives....yet the gov't expects us to believe that none were used
If you look here: http://www.asce.org/emerg_document.cfm you can see the list of structural engineers who investigated the collapse of the two World Trade Center buildings. Their investigation was very through and they found that the collapse was easily explained by the damage done by the planes and subsequent fire.

But even the most ardent conspiracy theorists do not doubt that planes hit the WTC. There is good video of that happening. If explosives were used, why did they wait so long to detonate them? Wouldn't you want to kill as many people as possible? Why allow time to evacuate the buildings? Also, why did One World Trade, the first building hit come down much later than the second? If explosives were planted why leave the building stand so long? Let me also point out that the sooner you brought the buildings down the more witnesses you are likely to kill.


Quote:
Originally Posted by danielas
How did amateur pilots navigate those planes without the assistance of ground control?--impossible
Surely, you are not going to tell me that a 757 doesn't have basic navagation instruments. Even a typically equipped Cessna 172 has a nav receiver and a compass. That and a set of air navagation maps are all you would need to get into the general neighborhood of Manhattan. But even you didn't have that stuff, let me remind you that it was an exceptionally clear day. All a plane taking off from Boston would have to do is follow the coast down to NY. Not very hard to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielas
In pictures of the pentagon attack that have leaked out...why is there no wreckage from a large plane. It looks like a missle, bunker buster type weapon hit the pentagon.
Let's say you are right that it was a missle and not a plane. We do know that a plane that took off from Ronald Reagan Airport was lost that day. What happened to it? Are the people who were on board being held in a secret prison somewhere?


Quote:
Originally Posted by danielas
The famous cell phone calls supposedly made from the planes were not possible. Cell phone signal does not reach past 2000 feet.
The list goes on & on.
That 2000 feet is on the ground with normal obstructions. Over a line of site path a cellphone signal can travel from many miles. In order to reuse the relatively limited cellphone spectrum, you do not want your cellphone sites to cover a large area. Notice that most cellphone towers are only a 100' tall or less. By keeping the antennas relatively low, the coverage is limited. From an Airplane that is several thousand feet up, I would expect a cellphone to work for at least 50 or 60 miles, and probably more.
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Old 09-27-2006, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techietype
Surely, you are not going to tell me that a 757 doesn't have basic navagation instruments. Even a typically equipped Cessna 172 has a nav receiver and a compass. That and a set of air navagation maps are all you would need to get into the general neighborhood of Manhattan. But even you didn't have that stuff, let me remind you that it was an exceptionally clear day. All a plane taking off from Boston would have to do is follow the coast down to NY. Not very hard to do.
Not exactly.......

Have you ever taken off or landed in a cockpit ?? I did. I've been a flight attendant for 10 years and spent countless hours in cockpits including take off and landing.

Those flights were flying from Boston to LAX and had NO REASON to "follow the coast down to NY". When flying you are not alone, you do not do what YOU want to but what the Air Traffic Controllers ask you to. From take off to landing you go from one ATC to another ATC. You can NOT divert your route without it being noticed AT ONCE.

Beside, even though jetliners are equipped with navigation instruments, you are NOT aware of what the other aircrafts are doing around you. We are speaking of the East coast airspace here, a VERY CROWDY one, especially early in the morning.

Phil
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techietype

What also do not doubt is that in the nine months prior to the attack that the administration did not have their eye on the ball, that they ignored warnings about Al Queda from former Clinton Adminsitration officials. That they were trying to find a way to go to war with Iraq. There is plenty of evidence to support that view.

But what I refuse to believe is that the Bush Adminstration knowing let this attack happen. It's pretty obvious that this administration is incompetent. I find that explanation covers most of what has happened over the past six years. The results of that incompetence may be no different than if they had deliberately plotted to do such an evil thing, but it does not change the fact that the failings were the result of incompetence.
what about the video of WTC building 7? I saw it and let's just say it's safe to conclude that NO PLANE hit that building, yet it managed to somehow implode. check it out for yourselves on YouTube. some say it was a controlled demolition to remove old outdated, unwanted buildings.

now I am going to lock my doors and windows, perhaps even board them. and dig a bomb shelter to hide from authorities.
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:17 AM
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You know whats so interesting about building 7 is that it housed offices of the FBI, CIA, and the SEC. In that implosion, files pertaining to the California electricity scandal were destroyed (notice how that whole thing sort of just went away silently, we never heard anything more about it), as well as damning evidence against Enron and Worldcom. How convenient right?

That day was the only time in history that "fires" ever brought down steel frame skyscrapers- and it was 3 of them in a day, totally, completely into thier own footpritnt, reduced to fine powder and convient 30 ft beams ready to be loaded onto scrap trucks.-Amazing

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Old 09-27-2006, 08:49 AM
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facinating, indeed.
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil in Paris
Not exactly.......

Have you ever taken off or landed in a cockpit ?? I did. I've been a flight attendant for 10 years and spent countless hours in cockpits including take off and landing.

Those flights were flying from Boston to LAX and had NO REASON to "follow the coast down to NY". When flying you are not alone, you do not do what YOU want to but what the Air Traffic Controllers ask you to. From take off to landing you go from one ATC to another ATC. You can NOT divert your route without it being noticed AT ONCE.

Beside, even though jetliners are equipped with navigation instruments, you are NOT aware of what the other aircrafts are doing around you. We are speaking of the East coast airspace here, a VERY CROWDY one, especially early in the morning.

Phil
The 9-11 Commission Report is posted here: http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

According to the report, American Airlines flight 11, the plane carrying Mohammad Atta, took off from Boston at 7:59 AM. The hijacking is believed to have started about 15 minutes later. It took approximately 5 minutes for them to get into the cockpit and take control of the plane. Around that time, flight attendant Betty Ong contacted American Airlines control to report what was happening.

Around the same time, Boston Control Center learned of the problem because the hijackers pressed the wrong microphone key. They also noticed that the plane was flying erratically. By 8:41 it was believed that the plane was headed for Kennedy Airport. Air Traffic Control moved everyone else out of the way. That makes perfect sense. If they couldn't direct the hijacked plane wouldn't they do everything they could to avoid a mid-air collision with other planes?

According to the report, the plane got hijacked around 8:14 AM, Boston Center learned of the hijacking by 8:25, and twenty minutes later the plane slammed into One World Trade, killing two of my friends who were working on the 110th floor.

The plane that hit Two World Trade took off from Boston at 8:14 AM. It was hijacked around 8:45, by 8:51 ATC was aware of the hijacking, by 8:58 the plane changed heading for New York, and at 9:03 it hit Two World Trade.

If you read the report it goes into far greater detail than I just did.

Last edited by techietype; 09-27-2006 at 08:56 AM..
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillieJo
what about the video of WTC building 7? I saw it and let's just say it's safe to conclude that NO PLANE hit that building, yet it managed to somehow implode. check it out for yourselves on YouTube. some say it was a controlled demolition to remove old outdated, unwanted buildings.

now I am going to lock my doors and windows, perhaps even board them. and dig a bomb shelter to hide from authorities.
Seven World Trade was badly damaged by debris from the other two buildings and by fires on several floors. There is a pretty good Wikipedia entry about it here: http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

The idea that the buildings crumbled into nice neat piles waiting to be taken away as a result of a controlled demolition doesn't square with the fact that the fires raged underground for several months, and that cleaning up the site took almost a year.

As for the SEC records, it is pretty clear what happened with Enron and California. Electronic records tend to reside in more than one place and there are plenty of witnesses. I would say that the failure to prosecute those involved or investigate further has quite a bit to do with who is in the Whitehouse, and not the loss of the World Trade Center.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:09 AM
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I for one do believe there were hijacked planes -- but my whole thing is laws of physics that were somehow changed with the three WTC buildings that managed to, like Danielas said fall within it's footprint neatly and in convenient 30ft beams. WTC 7 fell faster than a ball in freefall experiment, and still slightly ahead in a 'vacuum' - like that of a controlled demolition.

it must still be a free country, I am posting this here. for as long as this thread will stay open.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielas
That day was the only time in history that "fires" ever brought down steel frame skyscrapers- and it was 3 of them in a day, totally, completely into thier own footpritnt, reduced to fine powder and convient 30 ft beams ready to be loaded onto scrap trucks.-Amazing
Actually, the ASCE concluded that it was a bit more than a fire that brought down the two main buildings. Two World Trade suffered substantial structural damage from the impact of the plane. Remember that it took out a cornor of the building about 1/3 of the way down from the top. The key to the collapse was the way that the floor joists were designed. They actually held up the outside of the building, because the main beams were in the center. The heat caused the joists to buckle (not melt) causing them to break free. As more and more joists failed, the entire building structure failed.

I've seen video that confirms that account. PBS did a very good Nova that explained how the two main buildings failed. The exact cause of the failure of 7 World Trade is still not completely understood.
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