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Raising Children with Parents in Prison For the Parent left behind with children AND for the Children that have a parent inside. Discussion of unique challenges facing this group!

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  #1  
Old 09-29-2018, 10:15 PM
Rigora Rigora is offline
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Default Tax season and skipping out?

As always, I'm a jumbled mess. I have no idea what I'm looking for advice wise, but I cannot sleep. I just received a message over Jpay. I'm exhausted, but of course I felt like I had to read it right now, dang-it. My ex and I had spoke on the phone yesterday, and he had asked if his Mother could meet our daughter after she picks him up once he's released in December of this year. I told him I didn't know, in which he responded with "I don't have to be there." I have no issues with our daughter's paternal Grandmother meeting her. She only comes to this area once a year. But in his message, he's asking to meet our daughter WITH his mother. Our daughter doesn't know his mother, and she doesn't know her father. They're strangers. And unfortunately, I know how it's going to go. She's going to be scared, she's not going to want to be held by either of them, and it's going to go bad. I've already talked to my counselor about that, and she basically told me to let it play out, but to step in and comfort her if they're not able to. However, since I already know two strangers at once will be too much, I'm thinking about inviting his Mother to our house first and meeting him separately another day. I live with my Mother, and he's not allowed on this property.

I had planned on offering him 2 hours, one day a week, in a very public place in the beginning. I haven't told him this yet because I know how he is. He's big on threats and getting his way. Even behind bars, I just don't trust him. I've been trying to wait until the custody order is finalized in two weeks. But now I'm not sure what his plans are. Originally, he told me he had to have a release plan where he'd be going to a half-way house. Now, he doesn't need one because he won't be on probation. As he put it, he can "do whatever" he wants. In this message, he said that he won't be staying in the area for very long, that he'll be leaving around tax season because he "has a plan in the works." And.. I'm honestly confused. I know I'm focusing on the wrong thing here... But he's been incarcerated since November of 2016, hasn't held a legal, on the books, job in years..

Any ideas on what in the world he could be thinking? I don't know if he's just trying to get a rise out of me, if he's running a scam/conning someone, or what. From what he's always told me he has no one else, just me, to help him. So, naturally, my mind instantly goes to he is cheating someone else out of something else. He has spent the entirety of his 2+ years sentence telling me he doesn't want to lose another child, and that he was going to stay in the area to be in our daughter's life.
I have zero intentions of even addressing it with him, but man is it going to bug me!

Also, and this bit is a little petty.. But I know he's not writing his own messages over Jpay anymore. The grammar, spelling, and writing style are sooo not him.
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Old 09-29-2018, 11:01 PM
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Is he saying that "you" don't have to be there or "he" doesn't have to be there? I wouldn't let him anywhere near your daughter with any sort of unsupervised visit whatsoever. The whole thing sounds bizarre. Also, are you 100% sure he doesn't have probation, considering how long he's been away? That also sounds off.

I would only agree to meet in a public place, period, and a public place like a library or a police station! If he isn't doing anything swarmy, than he shouldn't have an issue with a police station, now should he?

Having the mom meet separately is also smart. And your reasoning is logical too. Just say exactly what you told us. That the child can't handle that many transitions and new people at once, so his mom is more than welcome to make arrangements with you directly to see her. I would also however, keep that meet public as well. Why bring this mess into your home. Better to keep it all separate and only in public where you know you and your daughter are 100% safe.
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Old 09-29-2018, 11:20 PM
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He originally said "he" didn't need to be there when his mother met our daughter. Any visitation will definitely be happening in public, within earshot of lots of strangers so he'll be on his best behavior. And true, she doesn't need to be in our house. I just thought the chances of him lurking nearby would be lower if she came to our house.

He was originally sentenced to 3 years, but instead was given probation. He violated his probation, it was revoked, and instead he had to serve the original sentence of 3 years in prison (minus a few months he spent in a court-ordered rehab program, and 1 month in jail prior to his sentencing). When I check his court records online, it just says he was sentenced to 3 years, and no time is listed under probation.
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Old 09-30-2018, 05:17 AM
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Do what you feel is best for your Daughter, and for you. Meeting his Mom before visiting him sounds like a good idea to me, and then deciding on your rules for the visit.

I guess it is possible that his PV sentence completed his probation. You may want to check further to find out if he is telling you the truth.
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Old 09-30-2018, 05:19 AM
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You have had to fight your own second guessing yourself. Stop doing that your instincts are right on the money with him. If his Mother is a decent person then yes allow her to come to your home and visit, not him. If left to him you and your daughter would be homeless and most likely dead. He's playing games don't feed into his crap he always has a plan this time let him have his plans alone.
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Old 09-30-2018, 05:49 AM
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Just wondering how old the child is?


I would consider having his mom over to visit her granddaughter. And I'd try to work that out with HER. Not him.
Depending on weather and how old the child is.....maybe you could meet at a park, or something/place like that.


As to him, just keep putting him off until the custody stuff is decided.
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Old 09-30-2018, 06:20 AM
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xolady, you're right. If it weren't for my daughter, I'd either be in prison or dead. She gave me the strength to finally walk away.


Sidewalker, our daughter will be 19 months old when he's released.



Where can I find out if he really has probation or not upon release?
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Old 09-30-2018, 06:30 AM
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You might try calling the probation office and asking......(not sure if they will tell you or not, but.....)


I dont know if he should have probation or not. It sounds odd that he wouldnt but its possible I suppose. (he WOULD have some sort of supervision if he was in CA but each state handles things differently)


I wouldnt worry about his probation or any of that. Let him deal with it.
Unless its something you wanted to bring up in the custody hearing.


Or maybe ask his mom if she knows. Tho he may be telling her the same story (if he's lying to you)
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Old 09-30-2018, 07:33 AM
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You might try calling the probation office and asking......(not sure if they will tell you or not, but.....)


I dont know if he should have probation or not. It sounds odd that he wouldnt but its possible I suppose. (he WOULD have some sort of supervision if he was in CA but each state handles things differently)


I wouldnt worry about his probation or any of that. Let him deal with it.
Unless its something you wanted to bring up in the custody hearing.


Or maybe ask his mom if she knows. Tho he may be telling her the same story (if he's lying to you)

He's good at telling me one thing, and telling someone else a completely different story. And I know if I ask his Mom, I'll receive a phone call with him asking why I talked to his Mom about him. I'll call his probation office this coming week and see if they can tell me whether or not he'll be on probation again after his release.
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Old 09-30-2018, 07:50 AM
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You could always just say you are calling his mom to try to set up an meeting with you, her and the baby.
then you could casually ask if she knows his plans after release, and ask her then.
See what she says.


Besides that.......its really none of his business who you talk to, and unless you need the info for the custody part...you really dont need to know either. (not saying I wouldnt be curious as well)
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Old 09-30-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Rigora View Post
He's good at telling me one thing, and telling someone else a completely different story. And I know if I ask his Mom, I'll receive a phone call with him asking why I talked to his Mom about him. I'll call his probation office this coming week and see if they can tell me whether or not he'll be on probation again after his release.
This is the best approach. I would not involve his mother in terms of asking her his plans. She's his mother afterall, and you have no idea what BS he's feeding her, if any, and he is still her son and a parent always wants to protect their child as you are doing so yourself. You do not want her to report back to him, or even put her in the position of keeping it to herself, so best to contact the probation office. There seems to be just cause for them to tell you as you're a past victim of his and trying to make visitation arrangements with him. Remember, you need to hold your ground and stick to the plan that you decided was going to work, on your terms. Do not let him pull you back in and try to manipulate you!!

A few months ago I was sitting next to a woman on my flight, who's son was also in the prison with my husband. She told me that her son was waiting for to be resentenced because he was sentenced to 7 years. I was puzzled because I was sure I had read that his appeal to be resentenced was denied. I came home and looked it up on paper, and sure enough, it had been denied 2 months before. My understanding from someone else is that his mom (even though the wife is loaded) is constantly sending him $ in commissary and such, maybe she's even helping him with legal fees, who knows? But, here's a perfect case of a guy lying to his mother, but for no apparent reason. There was another guy that was recently being resentenced and that was all over pacer. No reason to lie, maybe his mom was hopeful, but he is now telling other inmates too he's being resentenced. The guy clearly has issues as he just got his third or fourth shot in like 6 months anyway, and this time got an extra 42 days, so maybe his sentence was justified anyway. His mom was a nice lady, but this guy just seems like bad news all around never really taking accountability -hence the long sentence, for a white collar crime.

I am not familiar enough with someone who violates parole, ends up back in prison and then doesn't have to serve additional parole. Isn't the punishment for breaking parole usually an additional prison sentence, not necessarily serving out the remaining sentence in prison? And if it is an additional sentence, then you would think there would be a probation officer involved? You can probably look through his court records to find that out as they are public documents. If he's state, you would have to go to your county court (unless yours has an online court docket) and view them, otherwise if federal you can view that all on pacer.

Good luck! Remember if you don't feel right about it, go with your instincts!!!
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Old 09-30-2018, 10:08 AM
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In US federal cases, the judge has the option at sentencing for violations of supervised release to impose additional SR (probation) or not. I knew some guys who successfully asked the judge to sentence them to enough prison time to fully extinguish their SR, so they were finished when released by the bop.
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:54 PM
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I’d get a temporary custody order in place that specifies the amount of time and conditions under which he can see his child, assuming he actually wants to see her.

I’d talk with his mother and if I’m comfortable with her, I’d arrange a separate meeting between the child and his mother in a familiar place with people present with whom the child is familiar and comfortable. If she is able to put the needs of a sub-2 year old before her needs to play granny, great. If not, let her sue for grandparents rights if the child is in a state that permits such a thing.

Sounds to me like he’s waiting for somebody else's income tax refund check to come through so he can play with that money. Whatever is going on, it doesn’t concern you. Keep your child close and get those custody orders in place.
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:49 PM
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Id get a temporary custody order in place that specifies the amount of time and conditions under which he can see his child, assuming he actually wants to see her.

Id talk with his mother and if Im comfortable with her, Id arrange a separate meeting between the child and his mother in a familiar place with people present with whom the child is familiar and comfortable. If she is able to put the needs of a sub-2 year old before her needs to play granny, great. If not, let her sue for grandparents rights if the child is in a state that permits such a thing.

Sounds to me like hes waiting for somebody else's income tax refund check to come through so he can play with that money. Whatever is going on, it doesnt concern you. Keep your child close and get those custody orders in place.
Agree 100%
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Old 09-30-2018, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
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Id get a temporary custody order in place that specifies the amount of time and conditions under which he can see his child, assuming he actually wants to see her.

Id talk with his mother and if Im comfortable with her, Id arrange a separate meeting between the child and his mother in a familiar place with people present with whom the child is familiar and comfortable. If she is able to put the needs of a sub-2 year old before her needs to play granny, great. If not, let her sue for grandparents rights if the child is in a state that permits such a thing.

Sounds to me like hes waiting for somebody else's income tax refund check to come through so he can play with that money. Whatever is going on, it doesnt concern you. Keep your child close and get those custody orders in place.
I know I'm way too nosy. It's definitely none of my business, and I'm sure he's involved in something I don't want any knowledge of.

On the matter of visitation, at my custody hearing earlier this month the Judge told me we can work it out together, or he can file for visitation once he is released. But she wasn't going to put anything in the custody order about it, because our daughter has never met him. Seeing as the judge didn't want to do anything about visitation, should I file?

I'm definitely not concerned about his mom filing for any kind of rights. She lives out of state and is only in our area once or twice a year. She's stopped communicating with me, right around the time I set boundaries with her son back in July. That could easily just be a coincidence. I've only met her once, but she seems alright.
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:29 AM
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I sent him the monthly photo of our daughter, and along with it told him I would be contacting his mother to discuss a time and date for her to meet our daughter. I told him it would be easier on April to meet them separately, and I left it at that. I didn't mention any kind of visitation with him.


We'll see how that goes.. If he calls outside the day and time we chose for phone calls, I won't be answering.
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:58 AM
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Alright, well, he responded. He didn't address anything in my two sentence message to him. Instead, he said I was avoiding talking to him, that it was as if I wanted him to abandon and forget our daughter (keep in mind, I told him it would be easier on our daughter if THEY MET SEPARATELY). He went into a long spiel about how I'm judging him, that he's not that same guy he was while on the run (we were together while there was a warrant out for his arrest due to his probation violation), that he needs his daughter in his life and while he cannot help her financially, he will show her a father's "love trust and believe."


And then he asked for stamps.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:36 AM
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The last sentence says it all.


Face it, its about HIM, and what he wants, and will likely always be so.
I wouldnt respond to him, but if like you said he calls to *talk with his daughter* at the agree upon times, then answer. IF its outside those times, just ignore the calls.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:41 AM
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The last sentence says it all.


Face it, its about HIM, and what he wants, and will likely always be so.
I wouldnt respond to him, but if like you said he calls to *talk with his daughter* at the agree upon times, then answer. IF its outside those times, just ignore the calls.

Yep, basically. He hasn't asked for anything since I told him I was no longer putting money on his phone account back in July. I'm not sure why he thinks I'm going to buy him stamps, or send him any of mine. I only bought 5 this time, and they're just for sending the last few photos before he's released.

I've been getting a lot of similar advice on a divorce and custody board, to basically drop the rope, and have the only contact be for him to call at the time we agreed upon. As well as discussing nothing, just saying "here's our daughter" and giving her the phone. The general consensus has been to let him file for visitation once he's released, to not let him see her other wise. And if and when he files, to request supervised visitation at a center so I can have minimal to no contact with him, and to also request drug testing at his expense.

I've been too generous, and way too concerned with his feelings. I have to stop thinking I'm being mean by trying to protect myself and our daughter. He put himself in this position, and I have to stop feeling like I owe him anything.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:17 PM
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Yep, basically. He hasn't asked for anything since I told him I was no longer putting money on his phone account back in July. I'm not sure why he thinks I'm going to buy him stamps, or send him any of mine. I only bought 5 this time, and they're just for sending the last few photos before he's released.

I've been getting a lot of similar advice on a divorce and custody board, to basically drop the rope, and have the only contact be for him to call at the time we agreed upon. As well as discussing nothing, just saying "here's our daughter" and giving her the phone. The general consensus has been to let him file for visitation once he's released, to not let him see her other wise. And if and when he files, to request supervised visitation at a center so I can have minimal to no contact with him, and to also request drug testing at his expense.

I've been too generous, and way too concerned with his feelings. I have to stop thinking I'm being mean by trying to protect myself and our daughter. He put himself in this position, and I have to stop feeling like I owe him anything.
Some people are unreal! I'm so glad you didn't fall for that.

And quite frankly, he should be asking his mom for stamps!! You aren't keeping him from his daughter..he did that all by himself.

You've been great. Keep the boundaries you've set and again, if she does contact you for a meeting, I would do it only in a public place. Something about this whole thing just doesn't sound kosher.
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:37 AM
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Had this been a few months ago, I'd have given him stamps for sure. Whenever I think I'm not doing well with regards to him, I notice little things like this that make me realize I HAVE learned to behave differently.

And thank you . I'm more leery about meeting her in public than I am at our house because he's a lurker. Any time we were out in public and he had me doing something (pan handling, getting "snipes," going to the store, etc) or when I had to go to court, he was always lurking a block or two away. Just watching and waiting.

I just found out yesterday from my Mom that when I got out of court (she had showed up at the initial hearing. This was back in 2016), he sent her a few not very nice texts after seeing us outside the courthouse together. He already knows where we live, and thankfully we're not on the bus line. It's a 45~ minute walk from the nearest bus stop to our house. If I were to tell his Mother that he's not allowed on the property, she wouldn't let him ride here. Even if he got out at the end of the street, she wouldn't. He's her son, yes, but she's rather respectful of the mother of his children.

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Old 10-06-2018, 11:24 AM
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There are a couple of things you can do - first of which is extend the order of protection, if you can, before he gets out. That way you can be sure he got it, because he'll be served with it inside.

Second, go to court and make sure you have full and absolute custody and there is no order requiring visitation. Ask the court to leave it that way until you have a chance to go to court if he sues for visitation or custody.

Third, get an order for child support. It will be operative even if he never sees her.

Gather all your strength! Get some therapy from your local domestic abuse agency!
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:10 PM
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There are a couple of things you can do - first of which is extend the order of protection, if you can, before he gets out. That way you can be sure he got it, because he'll be served with it inside.

Second, go to court and make sure you have full and absolute custody and there is no order requiring visitation. Ask the court to leave it that way until you have a chance to go to court if he sues for visitation or custody.

Third, get an order for child support. It will be operative even if he never sees her.

Gather all your strength! Get some therapy from your local domestic abuse agency!

Perhaps there was some miscommunication; there isn't currently, and never has been, an OoP We were together in 2016 when he was outside the courthouse, lurking. He refused to come inside with me (understandably, my Mother would have quickly notified the cops if she saw him) and said he'd be waiting nearby, somewhere. I just didn't know he had contacted her, and I have no idea what he said. All I know is my Mother told me it scared her and she almost went and filed a restraining order against him.

He harassed my family members through text. A lot. I didn't even know he was contacting them, even pretending to be me sometimes. Thankfully, they knew it wasn't actually me because I don't use shorthand and tend to write in full sentences, punctuation and all.

I currently have temporary full legal and physical custody. On October 11th, I have a hearing to establish paternity from the Department of Child Support Enforcement because I'm currently receiving TANF. The judge combined the paternity hearing AND the custody hearing and stated she will finalize the custody order on this date. The judge stated at my initial custody hearing that seeing as he's never met our daughter, she wasn't putting anything in about visitation. She told me we can work it out together, or he can file once he's released.

I am currently seeing a therapist, and my next appointment is scheduled for October 12. I just recently changed from weekly appointments to every two weeks, and I'm seriously considering going back to once a week. She doesn't specialize in domestic abuse therapy, though. I hadn't considered myself a victim of domestic abuse, because I wrongly thought it was only physical abuse.

I actually just looked up some examples of physical abuse given by the NDVH and a couple of them actually fit some of his actions toward me. I feel so ignorant for thinking physical abuse only meant being attacked.
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Old 10-06-2018, 04:27 PM
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Apologies for misunderstanding! Sounds like you've got your bases covered pretty well.

I will tell you, however, that DV, like so many things, is a sub-specialty in therapies. Most counselors and therapists go on the premise that what you have described to them is a little off, because normal people don't do those kinds of things. It's only once you understand NPD and ASPD (the categories most abusers fall into) that you start to see how and why you got trapped into accepting the unacceptable.
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Old 10-06-2018, 04:38 PM
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An order of protection/no contact will give you an added layer of security in case he does decide to appear on your doorstep. Ask your therapist if the domestic abuse you suffered is sufficient reason to request one from the judge at your upcoming custody hearing.
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