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  #26  
Old 11-23-2018, 05:47 PM
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There are definitely prison systems that are far friendlier than those in the US, and some that are much worse too. Prison as punishment has always been the basis of incarceration here in the United States, and I can't imagine that it will ever change.

Prison was formerly supposed to only be for the most dangerous criminals, but we are now the biggest imprisoner of its inhabitants in the world, many for behaviors that have just recently been criminalized by politicians. The federal prison population has exploded since the initiation of the war on drugs, AKA the war on Americans, at least those without great wealth.

Prison reform should occur before imprisonment by finding acceptable alternatives for folks who violate laws that are not criminal anywhere else on the planet. Just my opinion,
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  #27  
Old 11-23-2018, 05:52 PM
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Since we’ve just entered the holiday season, I want to follow up on miamac’s question.

My overwhelming impression of prison, as a visitor, is that it is a very cold, very bare, aesthetically ugly environment which lacks basic touches of humanity and civility, such as a decent paint job, holiday decorations, laughter, warmth, etc. To be honest, the facilities I’ve seen have made me think of concentration or internment camps. One’s physical environment has considerable impact on one’s state of mind -- I imagine that is true not only for the inmates, but also for the CO’s. Since prisons often house long-term and life-sentenced inmates, I’ve been struck by the tragedy of keeping them in surroundings that are akin to the dog kennel at the local animal shelter. The COs’ jobs are already hard, and the ‘dog-kennel’ bare, drab walls, floors and lighting can’t help.

It occurs to me that if we want to steer inmates away from a criminal mindset and criminal ways of thinking about living life, it would go a long way towards that goal to make prison an actual community instead of a very large holding tank. I realize that this does differ greatly from prison to prison and state to state, so I’m not making a blanket statement that ALL prisons lack a semblance of community. I know that some feature their own papers, radio stations, community gardens, and such. Perhaps some even allow a Christmas tree at Christmas. My husband is a federal prisoner, however, and I have never seen anything like this implemented in the BOP. Federal prisoners seem to just be crammed into well-oiled penal colonies with cinder block walls and professional locks.

I wonder what you think of making prison into more of a ‘community’ and less a penal colony, especially for the inmates who must spend the majority, if not all of their lives inside.
I agree whole heartily that prison is a cold, very bare, aesthetically ugly environment. It is difficult to make a prison into more of a community. Many inmates have zero respect for their environment and the thought is that they will just destroy any type of improvement. The other thought is that some will see it as staff as just being "fake". "Oh the food sucks, and we can't get decent health care but you want to put up a Christmas tree?"

Inmate form their own communities and they do their best but line staff does not go out of their way to bring a "community" feel to it. We have Chaplin's who help bring god (in all his forms) to the inmates. We have education specialists and counselors but it is a uphill battle and yes it is sometimes nothing more than a penal colony.

Big picture, there would need to be a shift in corrections in America and focus more on rehabilitation vs punitive. The only way to do that is to throw money at it and hire more chaplains, counselors, psychologists and really push that type of programing. When we have limited staff in those roles then they are up to their necks in work and don't focus on the intangible like trying to create a community feel through ascetics.

Our politicians don't have the stomach to increase that type of staff, and neither does the public. We have enough problems with hiring COs let alone support staff.
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  #28  
Old 11-23-2018, 06:37 PM
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For every family that tries to visit an inmate there are a half dozen who are trying to get in with a skirt too short or a shirt to tight or too low. Half my time in the visiting room is spent trying to prevent the "heavy petting" that is going on. If I don't then the heavy petting turns into a whole bunch more. I'm like a Nun with a ruler in a catholic school 8th grade dance sometimes.

"But the CO let me come in dressed like this last week...."
"Yea no, nice try"

But we must remain consistent when it come to enforcing the dress code. If I show favorites in the entrance suddenly I'm racist because I let in the white family but not the black family even though both were in violation. (I'm white BTW)

In my prison, every inmate is handed a handbook and in that handbook it spells out what someone can or cannot wear. I know that is not the perfect answer because most of them throw it out in the first day.....but we provide them with the standards, they should pass it on to the family.

As for a change of clothing we do provide direction to the closest wal-mart, many do come back with fresh wal-mart clothes.

I know it's a frustrating experience, especially for those who are new to the system, but we have to be on our toes because a lot of drugs come through the visiting room. Oh and that inmate engaged in heavy petting with his visitor? Yea he is purposely drawing my attention because his buddy two rows away is putting a balloon full of drugs in his prison wallet. Is it always like that? No, but it happens.
The Walmart reference is funny, because when people showed up in shorts all summer, that is exactly where they referred them to to get pants. I don't understand some of the nonsensical dress code rules. And, there is a ton of inconsistencies between the different COs. I visited a lot over the summer. The CO's covering over the 4th of July didn't send anyone out who wore shorts. Many women come in wearing skin tight leggings and not once have I ever seen anyone sent out for that. Low cut shirts, nope no one ever sent out. I don't understand why kids can't wear shorts - even babies. I also don't understand why we couldn't wear sandals. It is really uncomfortable to be outside in the heat and not be able to wear shorts, yet women could wear skirts or the skin tight leggings/yoga pants. Really no rhyme or reason and like I said, absolutely no consistency.

Another issue we had once, and only once, which became a "joke" when my husband went back into the dorms was we got into "trouble" for talking to another inmate and his wife in the visiting room. That was a first and in the time my husband has been there (nearly a year) no one has heard of anyone getting a scolding before for that issue, or since for that issue. Very bizarre.

What's a prison wallet? Our guys don't carry any sort of wallet. Where my husband is, the visitors don't get searched and sadly during visiting each week there is maybe 1 minority inmate to maybe every 15 caucasian inmates if that. Never heard of any accusations in there of racism against the COs in the VR fortunately. Bigger issue is the chaplain that was prejudiced but fortunately called up for reservists duty and won't be back until my husband is already home!!
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  #29  
Old 11-23-2018, 06:48 PM
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I agree whole heartily that prison is a cold, very bare, aesthetically ugly environment. It is difficult to make a prison into more of a community. Many inmates have zero respect for their environment and the thought is that they will just destroy any type of improvement. The other thought is that some will see it as staff as just being "fake". "Oh the food sucks, and we can't get decent health care but you want to put up a Christmas tree?"

Inmate form their own communities and they do their best but line staff does not go out of their way to bring a "community" feel to it. We have Chaplin's who help bring god (in all his forms) to the inmates. We have education specialists and counselors but it is a uphill battle and yes it is sometimes nothing more than a penal colony.

Big picture, there would need to be a shift in corrections in America and focus more on rehabilitation vs punitive. The only way to do that is to throw money at it and hire more chaplains, counselors, psychologists and really push that type of programing. When we have limited staff in those roles then they are up to their necks in work and don't focus on the intangible like trying to create a community feel through ascetics.

Our politicians don't have the stomach to increase that type of staff, and neither does the public. We have enough problems with hiring COs let alone support staff.
100% agree with Bikerguy's comments. The government would never agree to spend the resources necessary to increase the staff needed to provide this type of programming. However, outsourcing some of it would be better and probably less expensive than trying to hire government employees anyway since then they wouldn't have to provide the same government benefits (ie pension!) but good luck! If the rumors are true about some of the items McConnell wants to pass in the prison reform bill, then there will be a big need for new hires in the education departments of the federal prisons. No idea how that will get funded.

Many of the case managers and psychologists don't spend enough time getting to the bottom of anything with the prisoners. My husband has probably spent at most 20 mins with his. The psychologist only had him fill out a suicide survey when he first got there and then wrote him off. He was seeing a therapist for a few years before he went in and it would've been beneficial for him to continue receiving some sort of therapy in there, however, it wasn't even offered or available. The case manager is useless and doesn't want to be bothered and the chaplain as I previously mentioned was prejudiced and threatened my husband with a shot if he emailed an outside Rabbi ("who is a volunteer") or if I tried to contact the Rabbi or anyone from the group Aleph which is a Jewish prisoner advocacy group. They actually contacted me first after my husband wound up in prison, but I can't even contact them now? Wtf is up with that? When my husband is out he is going to file something against the chaplain but until then he's too afraid to do anything, but this is wrong. The guy lied repeatedly about the Rabbi coming and other issues. He cannot get away with that.

As for humanizing some of the prisons, they do give them small celebrations during the year, such as a Christmas gift bag and allowed them to have various BBQs at Labor Day and 4th of July, but there's no doubt some of these CO's definitely get off at the power they feel they have over these guys who on the outside were successful men and on the inside are no different than the next. My husband loves his education CO and totally plans to reach out to him after the 1 year waiting period is up. The guy has really made an impact on him and the guy has also treated him and the other inmates in education with respect. Seen them as human beings, not just guys who made terrible mistakes.
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  #30  
Old 11-23-2018, 09:16 PM
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I don't understand some of the nonsensical dress code rules. And, there is a ton of inconsistencies between the different COs. I visited a lot over the summer. The CO's covering over the 4th of July didn't send anyone out who wore shorts. Many women come in wearing skin tight leggings and not once have I ever seen anyone sent out for that. Low cut shirts, nope no one ever sent out. I don't understand why kids can't wear shorts - even babies. I also don't understand why we couldn't wear sandals. It is really uncomfortable to be outside in the heat and not be able to wear shorts, yet women could wear skirts or the skin tight leggings/yoga pants. Really no rhyme or reason and like I said, absolutely no consistency.

What's a prison wallet?
As for the dress code, there is a reasoning behind most of it. A lot of it has to do with introduction of contraband and secondly a lot of wives/girlfriends dress like they are going out to the club and that can be a distraction.

A prison wallet? Well there is only so many places someone can store a balloon full of drugs, or another small item, especially when they are strip searched and their clothes are searched also.
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  #31  
Old 11-23-2018, 09:22 PM
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100% agree with Bikerguy's comments. The government would never agree to spend the resources necessary to increase the staff needed to provide this type of programming. However, outsourcing some of it would be better and probably less expensive than trying to hire government employees anyway since then they wouldn't have to provide the same government benefits (ie pension!) but good luck! If the rumors are true about some of the items McConnell wants to pass in the prison reform bill, then there will be a big need for new hires in the education departments of the federal prisons. No idea how that will get funded.

Many of the case managers and psychologists don't spend enough time getting to the bottom of anything with the prisoners. My husband has probably spent at most 20 mins with his. The psychologist only had him fill out a suicide survey when he first got there and then wrote him off. He was seeing a therapist for a few years before he went in and it would've been beneficial for him to continue receiving some sort of therapy in there, however, it wasn't even offered or available. The case manager is useless and doesn't want to be bothered and the chaplain as I previously mentioned was prejudiced and threatened my husband with a shot if he emailed an outside Rabbi ("who is a volunteer") or if I tried to contact the Rabbi or anyone from the group Aleph which is a Jewish prisoner advocacy group. They actually contacted me first after my husband wound up in prison, but I can't even contact them now? Wtf is up with that? When my husband is out he is going to file something against the chaplain but until then he's too afraid to do anything, but this is wrong. The guy lied repeatedly about the Rabbi coming and other issues. He cannot get away with that.

As for humanizing some of the prisons, they do give them small celebrations during the year, such as a Christmas gift bag and allowed them to have various BBQs at Labor Day and 4th of July, but there's no doubt some of these CO's definitely get off at the power they feel they have over these guys who on the outside were successful men and on the inside are no different than the next. My husband loves his education CO and totally plans to reach out to him after the 1 year waiting period is up. The guy has really made an impact on him and the guy has also treated him and the other inmates in education with respect. Seen them as human beings, not just guys who made terrible mistakes.
Well staff is over worked so that is why some inmates never see their case managers etc. They are focused on the bigger issues and bigger problems.

We do celebrations around the holidays. Special meals on the different ones like Christmas and thanksgiving. Same thing with Ramadan and the Jewish holidays.
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  #32  
Old 11-24-2018, 03:02 AM
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Just wanted to say I appreciate this thread and the information shared, so thank you Bikerguy.

My LO has mentioned it at times how "nice" it was on a certain yard when there were COs that were genuinely there to do their (good) job & treated him with respect. I could tell just by our phone conversations it made a huge difference in his attitude as well. For Thanksgiving they received a special meal couple of days ago and he was listing me the different foods he had eaten - little things can brighten up your day

I personally understand most of the rules and the reasoning behind them; I also believe that if there were enough resources and hell of a lot more staff it would be at least a bit more feasible to improve those things that aren't great right now - but, as has been pointed out here it would need a huge input from the government and something like that, it seems to me, is unlikely to happen any time soon...unfortunately
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Old 11-24-2018, 07:38 AM
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Virtually every prison restriction is a response by the staff to counter something stupid or illegal that inmates attempted to get away with doing. Once again, a few bad ones succeed in making life more difficult for everyone who is complying with the situation as best they can.
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Old 11-24-2018, 07:40 AM
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Well staff is over worked so that is why some inmates never see their case managers etc. They are focused on the bigger issues and bigger problems.

We do celebrations around the holidays. Special meals on the different ones like Christmas and thanksgiving. Same thing with Ramadan and the Jewish holidays.
You know what they do at my husband's prison for Passover? They let them place orders for kosher for passover food, which is the good part. The bad part, the set a table up in the middle of the chow room, for the jewish guys to sit at and eat their meals for the 8 days. So basically, they are singled out for everyone to see and create other issues. There is a white supremacist tv room in my husband's dorm. These guys scare the shit out of my husband. To then literally have the jewish guys wear signs that say "Hey, I'm over here" was not very comforting to them. They certainly do not have to stick a separate table for them smack in the middle of the room. They can be more discreet about it. But like I said, the chaplain, certainly didn't go out of their way for them on iota. They are very happy he is gone and he won't be back before my husband gets out.

I was visiting over TG so he missed the meal which some guys said other than the stale bread was one of the better ones for a change. They were supposed to get a special meal for break the fast, but instead of a special meal they held all the food served during that day for the guys and then when the fast was over just went and gave them all that food. It sounded disgusting because they basically were given 3 meals (breakfast, lunch and dinner) at once, instead of one large meal. It is better than nothing, but it would be helpful if the chaplain's were a little better educated because they are there to serve all religions, not just the one they practice, which was the issue with this guy. The muslims had a lot of issues too.

The one nice thing this year, they were able to build a sukkah! They are still trying to get challah for shabbat, which this guy had been holding up! My husband who had not been religious at all before he went in, has definitely turned the corner in that regard and become more religious. For that, I am thankful as that has always been an issue for us. So that is one positive here. If you can call it a positive.

I get that they're understaffed, but he can't even go talk to the case manager without have a call out because these people just don't want to be bothered at all. So if he has an issue, he can't do anything about it period.

I think he should send an anonymous letter to the warden after he leaves about a lot of the issues there and how they can improve things. The warden claims she is always open to hearing things and wants suggestions, but of course no way is anyone going to do anything about it or say anything to her.

My ex husband is a forensic psychiatrist at a state mental facility. I had to remind my husband that the CO's are more or less in a similar position as he is and to just remember that on the outside he would not have any issues with any of these guys, regardless of how people on the inside want him to feel/think since it is such an us vs them mentality.

Thank you for your willingness to share. I can only imagine the burnout for the CO's. I was a teacher and to some degree it has to be like dealing with defiant children a lot of the time. My husband has said the manners of some of the guys is just disgusting. Spitting, belching, farting, swearing, etc. Nevermind the lack of hygiene. He got lucky with his roommates, but to then try to deal with a bunch of guys in those circumstances. No thank you!
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Old 11-24-2018, 03:57 PM
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Virtually every prison restriction is a response by the staff to counter something stupid or illegal that inmates attempted to get away with doing. Once again, a few bad ones succeed in making life more difficult for everyone who is complying with the situation as best they can.
That is the absolute truth!
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Old 11-24-2018, 04:03 PM
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You know what they do at my husband's prison for Passover? They let them place orders for kosher for passover food, which is the good part. The bad part, the set a table up in the middle of the chow room, for the jewish guys to sit at and eat their meals for the 8 days. So basically, they are singled out for everyone to see and create other issues. There is a white supremacist tv room in my husband's dorm. These guys scare the shit out of my husband. To then literally have the jewish guys wear signs that say "Hey, I'm over here" was not very comforting to them. They certainly do not have to stick a separate table for them smack in the middle of the room. They can be more discreet about it. But like I said, the chaplain, certainly didn't go out of their way for them on iota. They are very happy he is gone and he won't be back before my husband gets out.

I was visiting over TG so he missed the meal which some guys said other than the stale bread was one of the better ones for a change. They were supposed to get a special meal for break the fast, but instead of a special meal they held all the food served during that day for the guys and then when the fast was over just went and gave them all that food. It sounded disgusting because they basically were given 3 meals (breakfast, lunch and dinner) at once, instead of one large meal. It is better than nothing, but it would be helpful if the chaplain's were a little better educated because they are there to serve all religions, not just the one they practice, which was the issue with this guy. The muslims had a lot of issues too.

The one nice thing this year, they were able to build a sukkah! They are still trying to get challah for shabbat, which this guy had been holding up! My husband who had not been religious at all before he went in, has definitely turned the corner in that regard and become more religious. For that, I am thankful as that has always been an issue for us. So that is one positive here. If you can call it a positive.

I get that they're understaffed, but he can't even go talk to the case manager without have a call out because these people just don't want to be bothered at all. So if he has an issue, he can't do anything about it period.

I think he should send an anonymous letter to the warden after he leaves about a lot of the issues there and how they can improve things. The warden claims she is always open to hearing things and wants suggestions, but of course no way is anyone going to do anything about it or say anything to her.

My ex husband is a forensic psychiatrist at a state mental facility. I had to remind my husband that the CO's are more or less in a similar position as he is and to just remember that on the outside he would not have any issues with any of these guys, regardless of how people on the inside want him to feel/think since it is such an us vs them mentality.

Thank you for your willingness to share. I can only imagine the burnout for the CO's. I was a teacher and to some degree it has to be like dealing with defiant children a lot of the time. My husband has said the manners of some of the guys is just disgusting. Spitting, belching, farting, swearing, etc. Nevermind the lack of hygiene. He got lucky with his roommates, but to then try to deal with a bunch of guys in those circumstances. No thank you!
Our Jewish inmates get to take their special meals in a private out of the way place.

Religion is a good thing. I am not an overly religious person myself, I can see how it can help bring people in prison together for the right reasons. It builds that sense of community and belonging.

it can definitely burn you out being a CO, I try to leave it at the gate when I go home. And yes some can be very inconsiderate and disgusting. I was talking to my inmate orderly the other day and he was complaining on how he sees folks in the TV rooms open a candy wrapper and just toss it at the ground at their feet. They don't clean it, the unit orderlies do. They are not defying me they are giving a middle finger to their fellow inmate by living like a pig.
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:01 PM
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Our Jewish inmates get to take their special meals in a private out of the way place.

Religion is a good thing. I am not an overly religious person myself, I can see how it can help bring people in prison together for the right reasons. It builds that sense of community and belonging.

it can definitely burn you out being a CO, I try to leave it at the gate when I go home. And yes some can be very inconsiderate and disgusting. I was talking to my inmate orderly the other day and he was complaining on how he sees folks in the TV rooms open a candy wrapper and just toss it at the ground at their feet. They don't clean it, the unit orderlies do. They are not defying me they are giving a middle finger to their fellow inmate by living like a pig.

Amen. Thank you brother for your eloquence
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:02 PM
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I was talking to my inmate orderly the other day and he was complaining on how he sees folks in the TV rooms open a candy wrapper and just toss it at the ground at their feet. They don't clean it, the unit orderlies do. They are not defying me they are giving a middle finger to their fellow inmate by living like a pig.
I'm beginning to think we're just experiencing a general decline in manners. I see the same thing in the visiting room from visitors. I waited tables in my teens and I can distinctly remember one family who routinely brought their children in and let them run wild-- throwing food on the floor, sucking on the ketchup bottles. But it wasn't common. Now? I see grown adults behaving this way. Well, maybe not the ketchup thing, but you get my point. I don't think I have enough years under my belt to yell at kids to get off my lawn quite yet, but mentally I'm so ready. The rise in entitlement thinking as a culture is whomping down on us.
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by miamac View Post
I'm beginning to think we're just experiencing a general decline in manners. I see the same thing in the visiting room from visitors. I waited tables in my teens and I can distinctly remember one family who routinely brought their children in and let them run wild-- throwing food on the floor, sucking on the ketchup bottles. But it wasn't common. Now? I see grown adults behaving this way. Well, maybe not the ketchup thing, but you get my point. I don't think I have enough years under my belt to yell at kids to get off my lawn quite yet, but mentally I'm so ready. The rise in entitlement thinking as a culture is whomping down on us.
I second this! I cannot tell you how many times I have seen families leave their wrappers or empty water/pop bottles on the little tables in the visiting room and I think wtf, that they're all too lazy to move their asses and clean up? To me it's not about leaving it for the orderlies or not, it's just common courtesy and manners. These guys/people are certainly not setting a good example for their own kids. I've even picked up others people's garbage when I've walked by because I've been so annoyed with it just sitting there. Not that I'm a neat freak, but seriously!! It takes 2 frickin' seconds to move your ass and toss it.

Fortunately in this VR kids are pretty well behaved so we don't have anyone running around wild, but the whole empty food wrapper thing just really ticks me off. Same with when they open the outside and they just leave them there. These few bad eggs are going to ultimately ruin it for everyone else - as they always do!!
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Old 11-24-2018, 07:24 PM
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I will second that AMEN! I had to live through nearly eight years of witnessing that kind of behavior. A complete lack of respect for themselves, and especially their fellow inmates. Not by all, but it only takes a few to create a filthy environment. The most astonishing behavior was heavy petting (or worse!) in the visiting room... We’re talking about with parents, elderly, and young children present! Completely disrespectful. So glad to be free from that.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:19 AM
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The lack of manners and in general sloppiness isnt reserved for just inmates or visitors.
Hell.......I see it everyday at work. Most clean up after themselves but not all.




One thing I also noticed, which really sort of ticked me off......
Folks would come to visit. They would be told....you need to change due to......blue jeans, or low cut top, etc.
They would go out, change whatever it was......and be let in before those of us who were wearing appropriate clothing.
One other thing I feel would be helpful is......if they had one or two CO's go thru the visiting waiting room (for lack of a better word....its the room where you check in, and wait, then go thru the process of the metal detector etc)
There were OBVIOUS clothing that wouldnt be allowed.......yet they didnt say anything until they got to the first *station* (where they check id's etc)
Would make sense to have someone go thru and tell them before they get to that stage, rather than have them start it, then go change, then cut back in line.
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Old 11-26-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sidewalker View Post
The lack of manners and in general sloppiness isnt reserved for just inmates or visitors.
Hell.......I see it everyday at work. Most clean up after themselves but not all.




One thing I also noticed, which really sort of ticked me off......
Folks would come to visit. They would be told....you need to change due to......blue jeans, or low cut top, etc.
They would go out, change whatever it was......and be let in before those of us who were wearing appropriate clothing.
One other thing I feel would be helpful is......if they had one or two CO's go thru the visiting waiting room (for lack of a better word....its the room where you check in, and wait, then go thru the process of the metal detector etc)
There were OBVIOUS clothing that wouldnt be allowed.......yet they didnt say anything until they got to the first *station* (where they check id's etc)
Would make sense to have someone go thru and tell them before they get to that stage, rather than have them start it, then go change, then cut back in line.
That makes no sense! If they aren't dressed appropriately and sent out to change, then they should have to go to the back of the line! All of that stuff is in the visiting handbook. All anyone has to do is go online and check before they visit.

Although my husband did tell me that the inmates received two emails this week about visiting. One was if people are having a cab/uber pick them up, it must be there by 3, even though visiting is over at 3:15. That tells me people weren't having the rides come until after 3:15 and the CO's were having to sit there and wait with them. Kind of funny. I once asked about having an uber pick me up and they told me 3 and that if it wasn't there on time I would have to walk up to the front to wait. Clearly they don't make anyone do that. In the end, since I can't bring a phone in, it's just easier to rent a car. I don't remember what the second thing is.

My other huge complaint is the crap food in the vending machines. It would be nice if they actually had something healthy! Chips, carbs, crap. That's all there is.

Our place fortunately has no detector or pat downs for the visitors. So that doesn't slow anything down like others mentioned and most of the CO's in there are nice enough. When I told them the parking lot yesterday was icy and I nearly wiped out and it needs to be salted, they did call someone right away to take care of that. Can't say the same for all of them though. But that is like anything.

Bikerguy - what kind of federal facility are you at? Meaning, what level?
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
All of that stuff is in the visiting handbook. All anyone has to do is go online and check before they visit.
This depends on the state/region/military/federal etc prison system.

The Oregon "handbook" is a bi-fold single sheet of paper. For visitation, it simply says you can't wear blue or camo. Nothing about skirt lengths or "the armpit rule" for what is deemed "low cut" or the length of shorts or "sheerness" of fabric (one prison interprets "sheer" as "white" - even white denim will be too sheer).

The only way to find out the rest of the rules is to look up the administrative ruling (aka law) about visiting inmates, which is rather daunting if one is not accustomed to trying to find information in humongous pdf documents.

And then there's the "every prison has different rules" and "every CO interprets the rules differently". I actually understand the second bit - after all, if you were told that your annual review would depend on whether or not you accurately noticed 'sheer' fabric, you would probably err on the side of caution as well and thus everything white would become 'sheer'.

The "every prison has different rules" really gets me since the administrative ruling should apply to all equally, given that that is not an interpretation, but a law.

But what really chaps my hide is the idiot visitors who constantly try to sneak things in/break rules. Because as soon as a cell phone is found, the rest of us, who were following the rules and behaving ourselves, get to pay the price in longer lines and extra searches/wanding. Just like a lockdown affects everyone when (typically) there are only a few people involved in the incident, the visitors who try to "bypass" the rules making visiting harder for all of us.

It's hard enough to be visiting someone in prison, but to be dealing with the fallout from dumb*** visitors who think they're smart enough to not get caught - grrrrr.

Bikerguy, if you look around these forums enough, you will find posts by someone saying they successfully broke the rules - followed by a whole lot of us promptly bopping them on the electronic head with broomsticks for making life for the rest of us more difficult. (Also, it is against PTO's community purpose to allow the posting of "how to [do something illegal]" - so there's that too)

Early morning ramblings...
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:44 AM
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Its true that even tho its a state facility.....rules can be different for each.
So the *visiting handbook* is more of a guide.
Maddening.


agree about the food in the vending machines. Most is crap.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rockchalk1 View Post
My other huge complaint is the crap food in the vending machines. It would be nice if they actually had something healthy! Chips, carbs, crap. That's all there is.

Bikerguy - what kind of federal facility are you at? Meaning, what level?
We don't control our vending machines, an outside vendor does. It's up to them on what they put in there. But yea it is generally nasty over priced stuff.

I would rather not say where I work.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GingerM View Post
But what really chaps my hide is the idiot visitors who constantly try to sneak things in/break rules. Because as soon as a cell phone is found, the rest of us, who were following the rules and behaving ourselves, get to pay the price in longer lines and extra searches/wanding. Just like a lockdown affects everyone when (typically) there are only a few people involved in the incident, the visitors who try to "bypass" the rules making visiting harder for all of us.

It's hard enough to be visiting someone in prison, but to be dealing with the fallout from dumb*** visitors who think they're smart enough to not get caught - grrrrr.

Bikerguy, if you look around these forums enough, you will find posts by someone saying they successfully broke the rules - followed by a whole lot of us promptly bopping them on the electronic head with broomsticks for making life for the rest of us more difficult. (Also, it is against PTO's community purpose to allow the posting of "how to [do something illegal]" - so there's that too)

Early morning ramblings...
I have lurked on this board for a long time and I never would have made an account and posted if I saw posts from people talking about illegal stuff like bringing in contraband or helping their inmate with other illegal activities like gambling etc.

I've dealt with visitors bringing in stuff and it just drives me crazy. Your husband/boyfriend is locked up....and you are encouraging him to continue by bringing in a cell phone or drugs?
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerguy View Post
I have lurked on this board for a long time and I never would have made an account and posted if I saw posts from people talking about illegal stuff like bringing in contraband or helping their inmate with other illegal activities like gambling etc.

I've dealt with visitors bringing in stuff and it just drives me crazy. Your husband/boyfriend is locked up....and you are encouraging him to continue by bringing in a cell phone or drugs?
The worst is women using their kids. It bothers me to no end. You want to be an ass fine and hurt yourself, but your child?? I don't get it. Besides the fact, that person does not love and respect you if they put you in danger.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:25 PM
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Default OK I have a question

Are the phones really THAT busy in dorms?
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:41 AM
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Are the phones really THAT busy in dorms?
Short answer, yes. There are always inmates on the phones calling home. Phones generally stay full and in use when they are open.
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Old 12-20-2018, 02:44 AM
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Hi Bikerguy

what do you love about your job and what do you not like?
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