God and the Americans.

[uk599905]

OK.. contentious.. hopefully not... but here goes.

I'm kinda guessing that the majority of those who read or post in this forum are either British or European. Let's call us all Europeans.

I've noticed that the Europeans don't, on the whole, use the God thing, or prayers, or references to the Bible a whole lot. In fact I'm hard pushed to think of any of us that have ever referred to it.

I mentioned this to the lass I write to a couple of months back, that religion isn't an issue of great importance here in Europe, in response to her telling me she's a Catholic.

In my whole life, and I'm not joking or extending this for effect... I've only ever met a handful of your actual church going Christians. I've probably met more Bolivians. (not including those who knock at your door.. or solicit money in the street, or wear a dog-collar, I mean Christians, not door knocking, dog-collar wearing Bolivians!!! )

I can name.. of the people I know now... 1 person who goes to church regularly. It's the first time in my life I can say that. I'm 43. Even she is only a friend from the pub.. and only then I see her outside having a ciggy....

So.. as the title says.. what is it with the Americans and religion? I don't get it! It's great they're so happy about it all, good on them for that. But is it just me that wonders how they came to be so happy-clappy? Or.. how they'll put so much faith into their God and not their political systems to solve things.
Or is that the crux of the problem, they don't trust their political system to fix it, to be humane, to be decent, to be forgiving... and they're putting their trust in something, a God, who is promising that? We, on the other hand, have a hugely lower crime rate in Europe, and less recidivism and a correspondingly lower prison population, no death penalty, no LWOP...yet we're non-religious, as a general guide to the population as a percentage of church goers???????????

I really don't want to get onto dodgy ground with this.... but I do find it a mystery.

Whaddya reckon? (Americans reading this.. please DO reply!)

[GuerosMama]

I find it interesting that you see us Americans as religious. I really feel like a lot of our society, really aren't! I meet more non-believers on a daily basis, than I do, believers. (On here too!)
I, myself am a believer, but as you mentioned I have no faith in ANY political system to fix things. However, I also think that faith and politics really have nothing to do with one another.

I guess, the only thing I really have to say to your response, is that I am Catholic, and I don't look to my God to solve my problems, I look to my God to give me the strength to get passed them. Clearly, our political system doesn't solve a whole lot very often, especially when it comes to prisons. The entire justice system is out of whack!

I really don't have an answer for you, because the way I see it, being religious doesn't have to do with being American. And I think its a very interesting perspective. I just have a question for you...why do you have so much faith in your political systems? When you die, will they have any everlasting, eternal effect on the state of your soul?

Interested for your response!

[uk599905]

Originally Posted by GuerosMama

Interested for your response!

Hey! Thanks for the reply.. I am genuinely interested

However, it's nearly midnight here now, and I really have to go to bed for work in the morning... I will reply tomorrow!

Thanks.

[Rachel]

I'm a churchgoing Brit.

The main difference I have found is that other countries (not just the US) are not ashamed of their faith like we seem to be.

I have travelled around the world and have yet to find a place so embarrassed about their spirituality as Britain.

The real question should be why are WE so secular?
In our efforts not to offend anybody, we have become nobody.

No one faith is better or more valid than another, and it is not for others to judge our personal pathways to God. But spiritual searching and desire for growth should be encouraged, Otherwise in the future will we mourn the slow suffocation of the collective British soul.

Rachel

[nimuay]

I'm a completely non-religious American, and I'm appalled at the God-ding that permeates this society. My father was a minister, but other than living a fully human life of excellent moral character, he did not openly blather about religion, and was sort of scathing about those who postured publicly about their personal religion at every opportunity.

I do use 'soul' and 'blessing' and other such words, but not in their religious context. I"d probably feel happier in Europe, lol.

[MrsCetina]

Originally Posted by uk599905

OK.. contentious.. hopefully not... but here goes.

I'm kinda guessing that the majority of those who read or post in this forum are either British or European. Let's call us all Europeans.

I've noticed that the Europeans don't, on the whole, use the God thing, or prayers, or references to the Bible a whole lot. In fact I'm hard pushed to think of any of us that have ever referred to it.

I mentioned this to the lass I write to a couple of months back, that religion isn't an issue of great importance here in Europe, in response to her telling me she's a Catholic.

In my whole life, and I'm not joking or extending this for effect... I've only ever met a handful of your actual church going Christians. I've probably met more Bolivians. (not including those who knock at your door.. or solicit money in the street, or wear a dog-collar, I mean Christians, not door knocking, dog-collar wearing Bolivians!!! )

I can name.. of the people I know now... 1 person who goes to church regularly. It's the first time in my life I can say that. I'm 43. Even she is only a friend from the pub.. and only then I see her outside having a ciggy....

So.. as the title says.. what is it with the Americans and religion? I don't get it! It's great they're so happy about it all, good on them for that. But is it just me that wonders how they came to be so happy-clappy? Or.. how they'll put so much faith into their God and not their political systems to solve things.
Or is that the crux of the problem, they don't trust their political system to fix it, to be humane, to be decent, to be forgiving... and they're putting their trust in something, a God, who is promising that? We, on the other hand, have a hugely lower crime rate in Europe, and less recidivism and a correspondingly lower prison population, no death penalty, no LWOP...yet we're non-religious, as a general guide to the population as a percentage of church goers???????????

I really don't want to get onto dodgy ground with this.... but I do find it a mystery.

Whaddya reckon? (Americans reading this.. please DO reply!)

Im an atheist, born in america and lived here my whole life and i dont get it either. Even as a young child, i had noticed too many contradictions and hypocrisy in what i was being taught in christian school, and honestly it all seemed really far-fetched and didnt make any sense to me. I personally do find religion to be cult-like. The more i study about European countries, i really think i am living in the wrong country lol.

[nimuay]

I've contemplated the differential in crime rates and attitudes for many years, but I really can't say that it's connected to religion. If you look at our history, we were settled by the restless, the unhappy, and criminal elements of all the European nations. And we have such a mixed background that we don't have a single solid civilization or set of rules to fall back on. No single national history . . . no Picts or Celts or Visigoths, no history of Albigensians or empires. We seem to use our judgmental nature to define our selves. But doing that on a solely personal basis carries very little weight in the world at large, so we attach it to an uber-powerful idea (God) and then can be self-justifying at virtually any time.

[uk599905]

Originally Posted by GuerosMama

I find it interesting that you see us Americans as religious. I really feel like a lot of our society, really aren't! I meet more non-believers on a daily basis, than I do, believers. (On here too!)
I, myself am a believer, but as you mentioned I have no faith in ANY political system to fix things. However, I also think that faith and politics really have nothing to do with one another.

I guess, the only thing I really have to say to your response, is that I am Catholic, and I don't look to my God to solve my problems, I look to my God to give me the strength to get passed them. Clearly, our political system doesn't solve a whole lot very often, especially when it comes to prisons. The entire justice system is out of whack!

I really don't have an answer for you, because the way I see it, being religious doesn't have to do with being American. And I think its a very interesting perspective. I just have a question for you...why do you have so much faith in your political systems? When you die, will they have any everlasting, eternal effect on the state of your soul?

Interested for your response!

Sorry about the delay in getting back to reply to this, but work is hectic and I've not had too much time.
Anyhows. I don't think I was saying that religion has anything specifically to do with Americans to the exclusion of all others. I'm kind of finding it difficult to reconcile that from what I see generally of US society (news, documentaries etc) and specifically on here (pretty much every thread..ever!) is a far greater willingness to mention religion as a normal first port of call when something is wrong and to invoke and praise a God to solve problems. I'll not mention a specific quote but I'll para-phrase something we've probably all seen on threads " I'm praying to God to get my loved one released".

I can't provide absolute proof of this, but you asked why we have so much faith in our political systems. Well, frankly, we probably don't, but we do seem to have a consensus that the State can't take away liberty without consent and that if the State does take away liberty it's done in as humane a way as possible. A huge percentage of the population would probably support tougher conditions in prisons here, yet it doesn't happen (on the whole) as all evidence seems to point to harsher sentences and conditions lead to more crime and prison sentences. (saying THAT..the UK prison population is now almost at its highest ever)

I do think your last point is very interesting though, in asking of the State has an everlasting effect on my soul. Simply. No I don't think that Maybe you're confusing the idea of religious faith with my use of the word faith... it'd maybe been better if I'd used the word "belief" (and even that has religious overtones!) I believe the State works in the best interest of society as a whole... and not for a religious entity, or worse... for big business.

[Ashmari3]

I think a lot of it is that people did come here seeking religous freedom. So it is almost a tradition pasted down the generations. I personally do not believe in god but i know what you are talking about. I think it gives people hope makes them feel safer and gives them a sense of peace so i dont see anything wrong with it. Everyone has ways to deal some people use their beliefs.

[uk599905]

Originally Posted by nimuay

I"d probably feel happier in Europe, lol.

You'd like our banknotes and coins!

On the US banknotes you have..




We have....





Charles Darwin!

[BelieveInUs]

Originally Posted by uk599905

I mentioned this to the lass I write to a couple of months back, that religion isn't an issue of great importance here in Europe.

Sorry but I don't agree. That's true for North and part of East Europe but not for South Europe. I'm from Italy and here is ALL about religion (even politics is condictioned by religion). I'm Catholic, not very religious and I've seen a number of cities in Italy and they were (are) all "rule" by religion. We have the Vatican (no, we don't really "have" it in the meaning of "owning" but It's here in Italy technically) and that's a big thing for us.

[uk599905]

Originally Posted by SunshineSweetie

Sorry but I don't agree. That's true for North and part of East Europe but not for South Europe. I'm from Italy and here is ALL about religion (even politics is condictioned by religion). I'm Catholic, not very religious and I've seen a number of cities in Italy and they were (are) all "rule" by religion. We have the Vatican (no, we don't really "have" it in the meaning of "owning" but It's here in Italy technically) and that's a big thing for us.

OK.. fair point.. the Italians are, on the whole, Catholic, as are the Spaniards. But as you say, you're "not very religious"... The UK is, by definition an Anglican (Protestant) country... yet I'd be hard pressed, very hard pressed to find a single person who can define the meaning of Anglican or the difference between Anglican and Catholic... in any meaningful way. Maybe Italian society still has to bow to the religious aspect.. however the reality seems to point to something else going on. As a country the median birth rate is below replacement.. so the Catholic ideology isn't working. Which seems to bear out that religion has less of a bearing to Italians generally....
So. Sunshinesweetie.. does religion make sense of why you're here, and does it seem different to the Americans idea of religion?

[MrsCetina]

Originally Posted by uk599905

You'd like our banknotes and coins!

On the US banknotes you have..




We have....





Charles Darwin!

That is awesome i have a problem with that phrase being on our money when about 14% of the population identifies as atheist or agnostic and i have been known to cover that phrase up with a black marker on dollar bills.

[Embalmer]

Originally Posted by MrsCetina

The more i study about European countries, i really think i am living in the wrong country

So why haven't you left America?