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-   -   "Pedophiles are People", poster in OR appears to target LGBTQ community (http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713388)

jordan321 08-02-2018 12:48 PM

"Pedophiles are People", poster in OR appears to target LGBTQ community
 
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, maybe in the "World News" Forum.

But I am just wondering what you guys think about this?
Pedophiles being apart of the LGBTQ Community and the current push to "normalize" the feelings?

Quote:

'Pedophiles are people' sign posted near school

A disturbing sign showed up in a local neighborhood, and people are wondering who would put it up.It says, "Pedophiles are people too.”
One thing that struck us, and people on social media, was that the background looked like a gay pride flag.
https://foxsanantonio.com/news/natio...ed-near-school

Me personally, I feel like there needs to be a support group for those who have feelings. I think if there was more access to help those with feeling, maybe we can limit the amount that act upon the feelings.

Just to be clear I am not saying in anyways it is right. But if someone needs help to not act on the actions , it should be there.

Just curious as it is becoming a very big thing in my area.


Edited by Admin to conform with PTO's Copyright Rules

miamac 08-02-2018 02:20 PM

Oregon is, sadly, a hot bed of active hate right now. While I don't have stats at hand, I don't believe there is a higher rate of pedophilia in the LGBTQ community than in the hetero community. So the design of the poster seems intent on flaring anti-LGBTQ sentiment.

I've seen in other threads folks discussing alternative therapies for people who show signs/symptoms or who have actively pursued pedophilia. It's a tough one on several levels-- namely being that it is an act that falls on the universal cringe meter of society. We have an agreement that it is wrong and that anyone with those thoughts is somehow wired in an unacceptable manner. So there's that stigma. Then there's the criminal factor. So seeking help is a HUGE risk. The one therapy suggested that I found both startling and intriguing was virtual reality. Something like a video game to allow an outlet for that desire. I may be misrepresenting this because I'm drawing on memory, but I think it was shown to reduce urges to pursue acts in real life. Much like using VR to assist combat vets in healing, this tool could be used as a way for people to address their socially unacceptable desires.

I'm a victim of childhood sexual abuse. While it goes without saying, pedophilia is committed by people so yes-- they're people, too. I can even look at my perpetrators and see them as human and fallible. In my case, I don't believe they had malice in their intent. I think they have a brain chemistry that allows them to associate desire with children. I'm not saying they're victims of this because we all have impulses that don't gel with societal norms and we can learn to put them in check. But if we won't allow people to seek help, then we do ourselves as a society a disservice.

Marseille 08-02-2018 04:23 PM

It’s such a hard thing to grapple with. We have mandatory reporting laws so if someone confesses to a psychiatrist that they have harmed a child, the Dr is obligated to report that crime. I don’t want to see mandatory reporting go away for people who have abused a child, but I feel like there must be a way to allow treatment for those who haven’t yet crossed that line without the immediate threat of incarceration. I’m guessing it would involve some kind of amnesty arrangement where anything that happened prior to treatment would be pardoned with the expectation that anything occurring after that date would be reportable and punishable. I don’t reasonably see that happening.

It would help if other countries who tried this would share the results. I know Germany was testing a kind of “before you rape” treatment program but they haven’t been forthcoming about the results. It’s early in the project though.

patchouli 08-02-2018 05:06 PM

I think it should be clarified that the terms Pedophile and sex offender are not interchangeable....not all sex offenders, not even "most" or "many" sex offenders are pedophiles, including those that molest children. The following article is an interesting read:

Pedophilia and DSM-5: The Importance of Clearly Defining the Nature of a Pedophilic Disorder

Psychiatric terminology should convey information in as clear and unambiguous a manner as possible. In light of the associated stigma, that is especially so of the terms Pedophilia and Pedophilic Disorder. Although from a psychiatric perspective the term Pedophilia is intended to define a recognized clinical entity, in the collective consciousness of contemporary society, the term has become a demonizing pejorative.

Many in society are likely to equate Pedophilia with child molestation. They are not the same. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5)1 may be contributing inadvertently to the misconception that they are the same, for the following three reasons:

Read entire article HERE.

Pedophiles may be attracted male children, female children, or both.

jordan321 08-02-2018 05:55 PM

Yes I completely agree , theres is a big difference being attracted to a child vs actually acting upon it. That is why i think there needs to be a better way for them to get help. The documentaries ive seen, ahow a few “pedophiles” going all their life without acting or watching child porn but ended up acting. They all claimed they wanted to get help but couldnt.

I just wanted to see what others thought & knew about the subject.
Quote:

Originally Posted by patchouli (Post 7736985)
I think it should be clarified that the terms Pedophile and sex offender are not interchangeable....not all sex offenders, not even "most" or "many" sex offenders are pedophiles, including those that molest children. The following article is an interesting read:

Pedophilia and DSM-5: The Importance of Clearly Defining the Nature of a Pedophilic Disorder

Psychiatric terminology should convey information in as clear and unambiguous a manner as possible. In light of the associated stigma, that is especially so of the terms Pedophilia and Pedophilic Disorder. Although from a psychiatric perspective the term Pedophilia is intended to define a recognized clinical entity, in the collective consciousness of contemporary society, the term has become a demonizing pejorative.

Many in society are likely to equate Pedophilia with child molestation. They are not the same. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5)1 may be contributing inadvertently to the misconception that they are the same, for the following three reasons:

Read entire article HERE.

Pedophiles may be attracted male children, female children, or both.


jordan321 08-02-2018 05:58 PM

Virtual reality ?? Thats very alarming to me in way. What if the “video game” actually increases the desire ? What the creator make the “child” in it willing engage in it ? How does that even work..

But ive also read and saw a video about there is a group that is creating child sex dolls to help then resist urges.

Im sorry you went through that :/
Quote:

Originally Posted by miamac (Post 7736950)
Oregon is, sadly, a hot bed of active hate right now. While I don't have stats at hand, I don't believe there is a higher rate of pedophilia in the LGBTQ community than in the hetero community. So the design of the poster seems intent on flaring anti-LGBTQ sentiment.

I've seen in other threads folks discussing alternative therapies for people who show signs/symptoms or who have actively pursued pedophilia. It's a tough one on several levels-- namely being that it is an act that falls on the universal cringe meter of society. We have an agreement that it is wrong and that anyone with those thoughts is somehow wired in an unacceptable manner. So there's that stigma. Then there's the criminal factor. So seeking help is a HUGE risk. The one therapy suggested that I found both startling and intriguing was virtual reality. Something like a video game to allow an outlet for that desire. I may be misrepresenting this because I'm drawing on memory, but I think it was shown to reduce urges to pursue acts in real life. Much like using VR to assist combat vets in healing, this tool could be used as a way for people to address their socially unacceptable desires.

I'm a victim of childhood sexual abuse. While it goes without saying, pedophilia is committed by people so yes-- they're people, too. I can even look at my perpetrators and see them as human and fallible. In my case, I don't believe they had malice in their intent. I think they have a brain chemistry that allows them to associate desire with children. I'm not saying they're victims of this because we all have impulses that don't gel with societal norms and we can learn to put them in check. But if we won't allow people to seek help, then we do ourselves as a society a disservice.


jordan321 08-02-2018 06:00 PM

Yes definitely if someone confuses of actually acting upon it or is caught doing it it needs to be reported . They need help as well as anyone else with a mental disorder or how ever you want to label it. There would have to be a way that they remain anonymous. How that would work? Who knows
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marseille (Post 7736973)
It’s such a hard thing to grapple with. We have mandatory reporting laws so if someone confesses to a psychiatrist that they have harmed a child, the Dr is obligated to report that crime. I don’t want to see mandatory reporting go away for people who have abused a child, but I feel like there must be a way to allow treatment for those who haven’t yet crossed that line without the immediate threat of incarceration. I’m guessing it would involve some kind of amnesty arrangement where anything that happened prior to treatment would be pardoned with the expectation that anything occurring after that date would be reportable and punishable. I don’t reasonably see that happening.

It would help if other countries who tried this would share the results. I know Germany was testing a kind of “before you rape” treatment program but they haven’t been forthcoming about the results. It’s early in the project though.


xolady 08-02-2018 06:10 PM

I don't get why anyone would think a pedophile should be grouped with the gay/lesbian/trans community or why this was even put in this forum. Just makes me think that there are people who are so uninformed to compare a mental illness to a a sexual preference. In just one sentence this sets back the gay rights about 50 years!!!

jordan321 08-02-2018 06:11 PM

I put it in this forum because that is what they are trying to label it as. I wanted opinions.
Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7737002)
I don't get why anyone would think a pedophile should be grouped with the gay/lesbian/trans community or why this was even put in this forum. Just makes me think that there are people who are so uninformed to compare a mental illness to a a sexual preference. In just one sentence this sets back the gay rights about 50 years!!!


patchouli 08-02-2018 08:11 PM

There's been a debate as to whether pedophilia is a sexual orientation or a mental illness or some combination of both...I've found a blog (Pedophiles about Pedophilia) on site called called "medium" that has several articles that I found quite interesting. Below is one such article:

Quote:

Is Pedophilia A Sexual Orientation?

There has been a bit of hubub in the news lately, as the BBC released an interesting article written by a 60-year-old pedophile who claims to have pedophilia, which he deems a “deeply distressing sexual orientation.” This has set off an uproar on social media, and has now been covered by RT, The Daily Caller, and Twitchy. This begs the question… is pedophilia a sexual orientation? And what is pedophilia, exactly?
See link above.

As far as I can tell, that's where the comparison between being gay and being pedophile begins & ends. Both are (debated) sexual orientations. DSM - 5 changed their terminology and excluded "sexual orientation" from its descriptor for pedophilia.

rockchalk1 08-02-2018 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7737002)
I don't get why anyone would think a pedophile should be grouped with the gay/lesbian/trans community or why this was even put in this forum. Just makes me think that there are people who are so uninformed to compare a mental illness to a a sexual preference. In just one sentence this sets back the gay rights about 50 years!!!

I was wondering the same thing. Being LBGTQ is not illegal, being a pedophile is a crime if acted upon. I would think the ratio of pedophiles in the lbgtq community is the same as the straight community. Of course there are the people who think lbgtq is a choice. Come on! Life is hard enough, does anyone actually think someone would choose to choose an even harder life? People are so closed minded. Most of us know or are related to people that fall in the LBGTQ category. It’s not a disease. It may not be the life we expected for our loved ones, but I don’t think prison is either. So what! If one of my kids tells me they’re LBGTQ, while I would be surprised and shocked and probably sad at the sense of loss for what I thought life would have been for them and the future challenges they may face, at the end of the day I would support them because all I want is for my kids to find someone they love as many of us here love and support our inmates and be happy!!

Separately that whole VR thing creeps me out a little because what if the person likes it so much that they decide they want the real thing and that then causes them to act on it?

xolady 08-03-2018 06:14 AM

I first of all know quite a few Gay people and I find it very ignorant and wrong that anyone would compare being gay to being a pedophile or put them in the same category. This is the ignorant thinking that has fueled such horrible treatment and bias against the gay community. I'm not gay and find it appallingly offensive.

rockchalk1 08-03-2018 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7737076)
I first of all know quite a few Gay people and I find it very ignorant and wrong that anyone would compare being gay to being a pedophile or put them in the same category. This is the ignorant thinking that has fueled such horrible treatment and bias against the gay community. I'm not gay and find it appallingly offensive.

Ditto! That's like the people who think being gay is a disease and if you talk (or touch) to someone who's gay, you're going to "turn" gay! Crazy!

MizzyMuffling 08-03-2018 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7737076)
I first of all know quite a few Gay people and I find it very ignorant and wrong that anyone would compare being gay to being a pedophile or put them in the same category. This is the ignorant thinking that has fueled such horrible treatment and bias against the gay community. I'm not gay and find it appallingly offensive.

I'm appalled as well. Disgusted. This is just wrong.
Being a pedophile has nothing to do with being gay/straight/pansexual or whatever is in fashion right now.
Anyone ever looked up what Pedophilia even means?
Here you go, educate yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

CenTexLyn 08-03-2018 06:47 AM

Sadly, this was the next logical step when they began appending the alphabet soup to include groups that had nothing to do with sexual orientation. This has been a fear of legitimate gay and lesbian groups for more than a few decades.

While pedophiles may be people, they are not and should not be permitted to be grouped with gays and lesbians. At least within the USA, gays and lesbians are simply people getting on with their lives. There is no right to commit felony acts, which is what pedophiles are doing.

This just serves as yet another data point for the push to get the L out and away from the nonsense...

Marseille 08-03-2018 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CenTexLyn (Post 7737088)
There is no right to commit felony acts, which is what pedophiles are doing.
.

Well, no. Not just by being pedophiles. You have to actually act on it. People have mentioned before, there’s lots of pedophiles out there who will never commit a crime. It’s still sick as f*ck, but you aren’t automatically a criminal.

jordan321 08-03-2018 09:13 AM

We were talking about this at work the other day, and someone brought up a very interesting point. He made it very clear he himself was against it and couldn't understand it but this is what he said

He said "why is it wrong? Because someone once said it was? What about bestiality, or those attracted to objects, it is only wrong because someone said it is wrong. How do we truly know what is wrong and right? In other countries, killing someone for adultery is right. To us it's completely wrong. But how do we truly know what's correct"

I was mind blown for a second lol

It could never be right or classified as a sexual preference to me, but i strongly believe there should be a way to get help for those who seek it.

nimuay 08-03-2018 11:17 AM

It's wrong for the same reason rape is wrong - there is no capacity to give consent.

jordan321 08-03-2018 11:20 AM

Oh i completely agree. I think my co worker just likes to argue. IF he read this, he would say "Well who decided rape was wrong?" or he would say " well why did they say decide that children can't consent? how can they determine an age they can consent"

What i get most mad about is reading comments online and people say "This is what we get for letter transgenders come out in public, it gives everyone a right to come out"


Quote:

Originally Posted by nimuay (Post 7737167)
It's wrong for the same reason rape is wrong - there is no capacity to give consent.


Minor activist 08-03-2018 07:11 PM

Moderators, I object to this staying in the LGBTQ section.

miamac 08-03-2018 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minor activist (Post 7737265)
Moderators, I object to this staying in the LGBTQ section.

The original post image shows a rainbow background and the phrase "Pedophiles are People". I believe the reason was to incite upset and target the LGBTQ community. For that reason, it's fair to open the discussion about that in this forum. The thread has touched on it, but as most thinking-people agree pedophilia isn't "a gay thing", it's hardly much of debate. The rest of the comments and posts having to do solely with pedophilia might not belong only in this thread, but as that was the OP, this is where it landed.

I will amend the thread title to reflect this.

jordan321 08-03-2018 07:26 PM

Yes the reason I posted it in here was because that's what they are trying to do. Is label it or make it seem like it should belong to community. I wanted to hear opinions. I did not mean to offend anyone.
As i know and believe it is not an LGBTQ thing, i just wanted opinions and to have a discussion. Thank you for changing the title.
Quote:

Originally Posted by miamac (Post 7737274)
The original post image shows a rainbow background and the phrase "Pedophiles are People". I believe the reason was to incite upset and target the LGBTQ community. For that reason, it's fair to open the discussion about that in this forum. The thread has touched on it, but as most thinking-people agree pedophilia isn't "a gay thing", it's hardly much of debate. The rest of the comments and posts having to do solely with pedophilia might not belong only in this thread, but as that was the OP, this is where it landed.

I will amend the thread title to reflect this.


JGardner10 08-03-2018 07:56 PM

So I am a licensed counselor so I wanted to respond to why a "virtual" simulation would be counter-productive to changing the behavior. We are all familiar with re-enforcement. Exposing the individual to sexually stimulating pictures of children, whether paired with orgasm or not (orgasm would intensify re-enforcement) would result in the physiological response, releasing endorphins, oxytocin, etc., and provide re-enforcement. Re-enforcement increases the likelihood the individual will seek out the behavior again. The reason why this results in the individual seeking out the real thing is they eventually need something more. Porn addiction is not as taboo as it use to be. When an individual watches porn all the time, studies show people tend to seek out more and more hardcore porn to achieve the same stimulation. Our brains want more and more endorphins! On a PURELY behavioral perspective (disorders are rarely solely behavioral) treatment would be based on extinction. In extinction you would never allow the stimulus children to be paired with sexual arousal or stimulation. This is likely to be unsuccessful because intermittent re-enforcement is more re-enforcing than the reward everytime. And like I said human behavior is more complicated than that.

Unfortunately in Texas the system is rigged for sexual offenders receiving treatment. If they are ordered to treatment after prison it is by special licensed counselors who are governed by the governor of Texas. Under Greg Abbott, the white collar criminal himself, made it official that only his counselors could treat sex offenders. The intent is clear and written in his order that sex offenders do not have the same privileges other clients have to confidentiality. In the case of a sex offender the counselor's duty is not to the client it is to the community (or to the State of Texas). I wanted to work with sex offenders, but decided it undermines the trust that must exist between client and counselor for treatment to be effective. I had a professor in college who said he use to work with sex offenders in Lousianna, but when he moved to Texas he gave it up because of the same reason.

Raf's Girl 08-04-2018 02:15 AM

Why do we straight people think that everything needs to be fixed to our liking???
Being Straight Gay Lesbian or a Pedophile isn't a choice it just is. No one ever made the conscious decision to become whatever we are sexually. The way we act is what we have responsibility over, I do hate rapists, I don't like it when a lady tries to charm me into a sexual relationship with her, one of my dearest friends back then was a gay man..........sadly enough........ I'm willing to admit that :-)
The way we act is what makes us criminals not the label we put on ourselves.
There are enough people that have thoughts about doing something that isn't morally acceptable but never do it, it doesn't make them criminals.
The idea you can change feelings people have is plain stupid all you can do is try to learn them to cope with their feelings.
People need to be held responsible for their actions not for how or what they feel.

S.Barnett 08-04-2018 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7737076)
I first of all know quite a few Gay people and I find it very ignorant and wrong that anyone would compare being gay to being a pedophile or put them in the same category. This is the ignorant thinking that has fueled such horrible treatment and bias against the gay community. I'm not gay and find it appallingly offensive.

I'm not gay either and I agree with you on not lumping pedophiles in with the gays. And I also believe the pedophiles should be "outed" as in some sort of texting and or emails sent out to everyone in there general area. Before anyone starts getting upset think about your children and grandchildren. Wouldn't every Mother,Father, Grandparent,etc. want to know?. I'd hope you'd want to know.I know I do.

The amber alerts are texted to cellphones so pedos info should be handled the same way. When sex offenders move into my area I get emails
stating the general area they moved into.


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