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-   -   12 years old facing criminal charges (http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=692754)

Alatriste 07-19-2016 08:07 AM

12 years old facing criminal charges
 
Hello,

My friend's 12 years-old son is facing charges for sexual abuse (class 4 felony) against a 5 year-old female child, 2nd degree family related. I want to help her and her kid, I'm reading laws/bills and trying to access to juvenile cases, but I didn't have any luck finding a place online for reading that kind of court cases. Do you know where I can access juvenile court cases in Illinois?

The kid's statement/confession was took in a room without counsel(lawyer) or any family member. Is that legal?

Thanks in advance!

xolady 07-19-2016 08:12 AM

Its not going to be easy juvenile cases are sealed so you can't compare cases. He need an attorney that works with kids.

Alatriste 07-19-2016 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7549171)
Its not going to be easy juvenile cases are sealed so you can't compare cases. He need an attorney that works with kids.

Thanks for your response. Didn't know that juvenile cases are sealed. Unfortunately we don't have money, lawyers here are asking 15.000$ to 25.000$ for taking the case.

I'll pray and I'll try to help them.

xolady 07-19-2016 08:50 AM

He should be appointed an attorney. My nephew had some run ins while a child and had a court appointed Juvey attorney. I don't remember whether they just assign one or what the parent might have to apply for one. I also believe unless he's charged as an adult the court would be open to the public.

Alatriste 07-19-2016 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7549178)
He should be appointed an attorney. My nephew had some run ins while a child and had a court appointed Juvey attorney. I don't remember whether they just assign one or what the parent might have to apply for one. I also believe unless he's charged as an adult the court would be open to the public.

He has a public defender, but we think he's not doing a good job, so we have to think the best for the kid.

Thanks for your tips, We'll try our best!

Cdub 07-19-2016 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alatriste (Post 7549180)
He has a public defender, but we think he's not doing a good job, so we have to think the best for the kid.

Thanks for your tips, We'll try our best!


Why do you think the PD isn't doing a good job? I mean you didn't even know juvenile court cases are not part of the public record by law in all 50 states, so what basis do you have for judging whether a lawyer is doing a good job?

Alatriste 07-19-2016 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cdub (Post 7549189)
Why do you think the PD isn't doing a good job? I mean you didn't even know juvenile court cases are not part of the public record by law in all 50 states, so what basis do you have for judging whether a lawyer is doing a good job?

I cannot judge the job of another person in an area that I don't know, so maybe he's doing just a fine work. But, I can judge or have an opinion about his behavior, that could be mirroring his implication on the case and his performance.

He doesn't show any interest in the case, he barely answers your doubts, just want to plea guilty and when we bring the "maybe" illegal questioning of the child because there was not a lawyer/counsel present in the room, it's like he doesn't care. Where are the transcriptions?

And in terms of timing, if he handles tons of cases it's completely normal that he cannot be 100% focus on one at a time.

No offense for public defenders. They can do a superb job, just speaking about the behavior of one in particular.

xolady 07-19-2016 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cdub (Post 7549189)
Why do you think the PD isn't doing a good job? I mean you didn't even know juvenile court cases are not part of the public record by law in all 50 states, so what basis do you have for judging whether a lawyer is doing a good job?

Most people have no clue how the system works, I can understand not thinking an appointed lawyer isn't doing a good job. Most are very busy but unless your in the biz you think they aren't working, but because its Juvey case, they can't even see anything to compare it to. I can assure you none of these people are in this for the money. Most people choose to work in the public defenders office because they want to help people and especially the Juvey public defenders. I found they were so much more caring then most. I know the one my Nephew had went beyond the requirements to help him. He didn't deserve the help he got didn't appreciate it by any means. I did and so did my family. After all this guy did to keep my nephew out of Jail my nephew went out and commited worse crimes and got pretty light county sentence which he more then deserved that made him change his life.

priceam 07-19-2016 09:59 AM

Is your friend in Italy or in the States? That will make a huge difference in how your question is answered.

xolady 07-19-2016 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alatriste (Post 7549192)
I cannot judge the job of another person in an area that I don't know, so maybe he's doing just a fine work. But, I can judge or have an opinion about his behavior, that could be mirroring his implication on the case and his performance.

He doesn't show any interest in the case, he barely answers your doubts, just want to plea guilty and when we bring the "maybe" illegal questioning of the child because there was not a lawyer/counsel present in the room, it's like he doesn't care. Where are the transcriptions?

And in terms of timing, if he handles tons of cases it's completely normal that he cannot be 100% focus on one at a time.

No offense for public defenders. They can do a superb job, just speaking about the behavior of one in particular.

Well if your friend is not happy she is going to have to voice this to the public defenders superior and ask that another be assigned. But you have no say in any of this and its also a sex offense which makes it even harder for most of the people to get that the victim has rights that have to be protected also. Not saying your points aren't valid ones but you are getting all your info second or third hand.

Alatriste 07-19-2016 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priceam (Post 7549194)
Is your friend in Italy or in the States? That will make a huge difference in how your question is answered.

Illinois, USA

priceam 07-19-2016 10:34 AM

Sorry I missed that above. If you are getting all of the information second hand you could be not getting the entire story. I am sorry this child is going through this and that they get a proper defense.

Alatriste 07-19-2016 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7549197)
Well if your friend is not happy she is going to have to voice this to the public defenders superior and ask that another be assigned. But you have no say in any of this and its also a sex offense which makes it even harder for most of the people to get that the victim has rights that have to be protected also. Not saying your points aren't valid ones but you are getting all your info second or third hand.

I'm only giving my opinion, yeah, maybe I'm completey wrong with second hand info, maybe it's completely different. If you don't like your appointed lawyer you can ask for a replacement? So I guess she'll do that.

Why my points aren't valid ones?

I believe in the words of my friend and I'll try to help her.

Alatriste 07-19-2016 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priceam (Post 7549210)
Sorry I missed that above. If you are getting all of the information second hand you could be not getting the entire story. I am sorry this child is going through this and that they get a proper defense.

Yeah, absolutely, maybe there's something I'm missing.

But I believe in my friend and I want to help. There's a way to access to juvenile court cases?

priceam 07-19-2016 10:45 AM

Is this your MWI that you are engaged to? If she is in prison and giving you the information it could be third or fourth hand information.

Cdub 07-19-2016 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alatriste (Post 7549192)
I cannot judge the job of another person in an area that I don't know, so maybe he's doing just a fine work. But, I can judge or have an opinion about his behavior, that could be mirroring his implication on the case and his performance.

He doesn't show any interest in the case, he barely answers your doubts, just want to plea guilty and when we bring the "maybe" illegal questioning of the child because there was not a lawyer/counsel present in the room, it's like he doesn't care. Where are the transcriptions?

And in terms of timing, if he handles tons of cases it's completely normal that he cannot be 100% focus on one at a time.

No offense for public defenders. They can do a superb job, just speaking about the behavior of one in particular.


But you did judge his work when you said you didn't think he was doing a good job. And of course you may form and voice an opinion. But when it becomes clear that you are forming an opinion without knowledge of the facts, then you also can expect for your credibility to be called into question.

I don't know whose questions he is not answering, but he is only answerable to his client. Since this is in juvenile court, he faces even more sanctions if he answers to the wrong person.

If you want what is best for the child, as you insist, then stop interfering with the work his lawyer is doing. This lawyer is specially trained in working with the laws of his state in getting the best outcome for his client. Also, the lawyer is not trying to score points with the child's mother.

xolady 07-19-2016 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alatriste (Post 7549212)
I'm only giving my opinion, yeah, maybe I'm completey wrong with second hand info, maybe it's completely different. If you don't like your appointed lawyer you can ask for a replacement? So I guess she'll do that.

Why my points aren't valid ones?

I believe in the words of my friend and I'll try to help her.

You are not the client and either is your friend they don't have to answer to either of you. I understand the side of the coin and believe me it would be in this childs best interest for you to let the mother and father deal with this. Are you even here where this happened?

xolady 07-19-2016 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alatriste (Post 7549212)
I'm only giving my opinion, yeah, maybe I'm completey wrong with second hand info, maybe it's completely different. If you don't like your appointed lawyer you can ask for a replacement? So I guess she'll do that.

Why my points aren't valid ones? Yes they might be if you were the client!!

I believe in the words of my friend and I'll try to help her.

Your friend has no clue what went on either and she has no rights when it comes to this its up to a client. You can twist my words to suit yourself but you aren't going to get different answers. Oh yeah where was his Mother when they questioned him???? That makes a huge difference on whether this kids "rights" were violated.

Alatriste 07-19-2016 02:44 PM

I think everybody that has write in this thread has some good points. The best option for me is not to interfere, maybe I think I can help but maybe I'll mess up everything. There are so many blind spots and it's not my business (in the good way I say this). I'm sorry if somebody was upset by my comments, I'm worried and overwhelmed.

So the most intelligent thing is give moral support and let the people who know what happened and the lawyer work in peace.

I really appreciate your comments, thank you all.

xolady 07-19-2016 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alatriste (Post 7549290)
I think everybody that has write in this thread has some good points. The best option for me is not to interfere, maybe I think I can help but maybe I'll mess up everything. There are so many blind spots and it's not my business (in the good way I say this). I'm sorry if somebody was upset by my comments, I'm worried and overwhelmed.

So the most intelligent thing is give moral support and let the people who know what happened and the lawyer work in peace.

I really appreciate your comments, thank you all.

Yes this is the best way. You are not a lawyer are you? And you are in Italy your friends in the U.S.? Morale support is what she really needs right now. Its the best way you can help her.:thumbsup:

yourself 07-19-2016 03:35 PM

What county in IL? Cook County PDs are very good and unionized so their caseloads are not a bear. Sex offenses are very specialized and not given to attorneys who can't handle them or have a bias against sex offenses. Juvenile court is very different from Adult Court - he won't be found guilty, he'll be found delinquent, and he can be found delinquent for any number of reasons including the parents not being able to control him (incorrigible) or not wanting to deal with him. Further, you say this crime happened in the home - if the boy poses a serious danger to other kids, he cannot be returned to the home without DCFS being all up in their shit and removing all other kids.

Basically you have 3 problems:

1. delinquency
2. sex offense
3. designation as a sex offender

Worst case scenario, he's off to St. Charles for treatment. Depending on how amenable he is to treatment, he can be there until he's 21. If he stays unable to deal with treatment/unsuccessful with treatment, he can face a sexually violent person hearing at the end of his juvenile stay. If he's an SVP, he's sent to a treatment and detention facility until he's "cured", which can be the rest of his life. There are currently 6(?) people in the TDF who were found delinquent originally.

But, let's not get ahead of ourselves, shall we? The emphasis of the juvenile court, even in issues of sex offenses, is treatment and rehabilitation of the family. This is the goal of juvenile justice and has been the goal since the 1890's when Cook County became the first system to say, "kids are different", emphasize rehabilitation and second chances. This is not adult court. He will not be a felon the rest of his life and he will not be found guilty. The appropriate finding, assuming he did the deed, is delinquent.

Most cases I've run into like this have used local resources if at all possible to manage and treat the child first. There are exceptions, but this is the general rule - make the family safe and treat the juvenile. If the juvenile demonstrates he's not amenable to treatment, the treatment venue becomes more rigorous. If the psychiatrists and psychologists who evaluate the juvenile believe that the least restrictive environment is outside of the home, that's generally what happens.

Issues of evidence are not relevant at this point as there's probably still clear and convincing evidence that the child did the deed, including the testimony of the victim and hard evidence including the physical evaluation of the child. The juvenile will be subject to psych evals - it's pro forma, especially for somebody that young.

Remember, the parent is not the client, and there's no such thing as child/parent confidentiality. The kid can't talk. The lawyer has no obligation to the parents. There's a lot of shit going on that the public is not aware of because this is a juvenile matter, and should remain cloistered to protect the juvenile so that the juvenile can be rehabilitated and move on with his life.


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