Since my now 23 year old son (Born on Halloween- He thinks he has right to be evil) came to live with my wife and I my 6 month old step daughter.

He has two younger brothers, 13 and 15 1/2 who live with ex-spouse #2.
Hey, I'm married third time now, I don't give up easily...

I visit with two younger sons each week for dinner. Last week when we were sitting down talking about big brother, I am telling them I think he is doing ok, he's been on a job at $10.00 an hour for 3 months, passed probabtion, bought a car in his own name, keeps borrowing money from people so he can spend his money on his high powered car stereo when he should have bought new tires he needs and then complains when I ask him to pay 20% of utility bills which was only $131 last month.

They tell me you don't know him dad, he is smoking pot every day, hiding it from you. He took younger son out for walk, broke out some weed, rolled a joint and offered it to him which he refuses, or so he told me. I'm sure he did, cause he didn't act stoned.

I told older son that he must not brag about his past life, drugs and guns and gangs to his younger brothers. I told him not to influence them because they look up to him. Instead he brags about his drug dealing days, all the money he had, all the bad ass people he knows, how easy it is to sell dope, and make money and how tough all his friends are.

then he lies to me, listens to gang rap I told him i don't want to hear, and makes believe he is doing the best he can while doing all this stuff behind my back.

Younger boys proceeded to tell me at dinner that he is an idiot, not to tell him what they told me he told them cause then he would be mad at them. They told me just to let him do what he does cause he's going to end up in trouble anyway. Told me he said working for $10/hr is bogus and if he could sell a pound of dope that would be so much easier.

He is just dying to get off parole so he can move back to No. Cal where is has lived all his life to get back with his friends and probably back into the same crap and end up back in prison.

we have taken him to church with us, I have spent hours preaching to him (sort of) not about spiritual things, but more about mistakes and consequences. he seems to be stuck in his 12 grade mind. Spent half his life in prison or juvenile hall, and only came back into my life 18 years after he was taken from me. So 18 years of growing up opposite of what I stand for, and then acting like he is angel when behind my back, he is same old self, trying to get away with stuff, smoking dope at risk of being caught by his parole agent who is damn nice to him, took him off high control and he just does't care.

We don't know what to do, i don't want to just tell him he has gone against what i told him not to do with his brothers. If their mother ever found out my visitation would be yanked big time. she doesn't even know he lives with us.

We feel like we made a mistake. It's causing concern beteen wife and me. She is uncomfortable, and now it's becoming a regret and an issue.

Why? Because we thought we could provide a stable environment for him
Because we thought we could help him see how a regular household is run, to teach him a little responsibility by charging him small utility bill each month and showing them to him, garbage, water, phone, gas, electric so he didn't just think we giving him some bogus bill, but to see what we pay and make him pay a small share of it. Rent free, free food, nice room, nice house. Free phone, and we feel he just sliding for nothing, waiting to get off parole, and we'll never see him again.

So how do I approach him? How do I tell him that if I find out he says anymore crap to his brothers that he's gone. That if I find pot on him, he's gone.

I don't want to call the parole agent. he does get drug tested but thinks they not testing for pot and don't care. He is just doing what any normal law breaking, law disrespecting person does, try to get away with it until he gets caught.

Worse, he may have even killed someone, left them for dead, and doesn't give a damn. i have no details, he doesn't even know. he just knows years ago he did some nasty stuff, shooting, stabbing beating up with some people and left people lying ther bleeding and fled. I mean, a person capable of this basically has no consience, so how do you get a person like that to snap back into life? Do you?

Am I wasting time here risking a lot?

Your thoughts all appreciated good and bad.

Thanks,

Wow... You are in between a rock and a hard spot!! If you believe he is using make him take a pot test, you can purchase them at local drug stores here....If you cant find one tell his PO you want a full drug test just to make sure, if he gets caught it might save his life....
Is there a posability the young ones are lieing or even over aggerating because they are jealous?
How old is your son? I'm sure you have heard a million times if they haven't reached rock bottom you can't make them... You may have too wait it out, but protect your family first...
About the murder thing; I had a hard time knowing my ex had done crack and lots of other drugs less alone stabbed a guy 5 times but......If that is how he was taught (growing up in gangs ie...) there is nothing really you can do about it. Does he seem to care now that he has changed?
Sorry this is so long.... I wish you luck!

ProdigalDad I am a mother of a young child and find it hard to phatom the idea of when to let go and when to pull tighter. If your younger sons are true to their word, then you have a blessing there in that they confide in you. Communication with teenager is a national treasure.

I would have him tested. And I would do it with the parole officer. If he thinks he can live a life with no self-control and complete disregard then he should see what it is like to yield your rights over at anytime. He is disrespecting your house, jeopardizing you and your wife's relationship, and wasting time (not waiting out time).

I also suspect he didn't get where he is overnight. So, I suspect getting to where you desire for him to be won't happen that way either. He has to decide who and what he wants to be. You can be a guiding light and a pillar of support, but you need to know what is absolutely untolerable for you. Get to your deal breaker point. When you know that, then making the decision will be easier cause it becomes vital to who you are and how you wish to live your life.

My prayers are with you. The story of the prodigal son is one I wish for you to hear and experience for yourself!

Wow... You are in between a rock and a hard spot!! If you believe he is using make him take a pot test, you can purchase them at local drug stores here....If you cant find one tell his PO you want a full drug test just to make sure, if he gets caught it might save his life....
Is there a posability the young ones are lieing or even over aggerating because they are jealous?
How old is your son? I'm sure you have heard a million times if they haven't reached rock bottom you can't make them... You may have too wait it out, but protect your family first...
About the murder thing; I had a hard time knowing my ex had done crack and lots of other drugs less alone stabbed a guy 5 times but......If that is how he was taught (growing up in gangs ie...) there is nothing really you can do about it. Does he seem to care now that he has changed?
Sorry this is so long.... I wish you luck!
I think it's probably best to tell the PO to do a full test. I wonder what happens if they test positive, drug school? extend parole? I want him out in the 13 months he is trying to get off parole on, not to stay longer. Parole told me that if he doesn't live with me, he is released back to No. Cal homeless where he was transferred from because his natural father (me) allowed him to come with me. he has no family in No. Cal. Parole agent told me he can't move out and rent a room from someone, so that limits his places he can go, either with me or back north, which will surely end him up without job, on street, desparate and back in prison in no time at all.

His brothers do not exagerate, they are not jealous. In fact the room they stayed in part time with empty beds, they gladly wanted him to have cause he grew up with their dad, and they feel bad enough about him.

So if they find him positive for pot, then what? Parole violation?
He is trying to get off parole in 13 months.
Says parole office doesn't care if he is doing pot, they don't test for it. I find this hard to believe. Also thinks he won't be release from parole in 13 months because he says parole office gets money for each parolee they supervise, so he is worth money to them, especially if he is a high control parolee which he is no longer.

I have low tolerance for disrespectful behavior, and while in front of me he acts innocent, I know he is street smart and sneaky. My wife senses it, and it's hard to argue with a woman's intuition..

Yes, my two younger sons are very close to me and confide a lot of things in me becuase I have always respected them, told them sorry when I screwed up, and been firm when they screw up, but forgiving. This builds trust and I know they trust me.

ProdigalDad I am a mother of a young child and find it hard to phatom the idea of when to let go and when to pull tighter. If your younger sons are true to their word, then you have a blessing there in that they confide in you. Communication with teenager is a national treasure.

I would have him tested. And I would do it with the parole officer. If he thinks he can live a life with no self-control and complete disregard then he should see what it is like to yield your rights over at anytime. He is disrespecting your house, jeopardizing you and your wife's relationship, and wasting time (not waiting out time).

I also suspect he didn't get where he is overnight. So, I suspect getting to where you desire for him to be won't happen that way either. He has to decide who and what he wants to be. You can be a guiding light and a pillar of support, but you need to know what is absolutely untolerable for you. Get to your deal breaker point. When you know that, then making the decision will be easier cause it becomes vital to who you are and how you wish to live your life.

My prayers are with you. The story of the prodigal son is one I wish for you to hear and experience for yourself!

So if they find him positive for pot, then what? Parole violation?
He is trying to get off parole in 13 months.
Says parole office doesn't care if he is doing pot, they don't test for it. I find this hard to believe. Also thinks he won't be release from parole in 13 months because he says parole office gets money for each parolee they supervise, so he is worth money to them, especially if he is a high control parolee which he is no longer.
.Call the parole office and ask them what they test for. You don't have to give your information. Say you have concern for someone coming out to live with you and you want to guarantee his success. What are they doing to support you in this effort? What can you expect from them in regards to testing to insure that your trust is not being broken in your house?

Are you hoping for him to make it off parole in 13 months?
Is your plan to help him develop and he was leaving anyway?
Whether he acts innocent or is innocent is what you want to know. Is your concern the lack of proof that he is doing what your younger children say?

I would want to know what is the worse case for him if found positive for drug use. Do you think he is using?

Yes I know he is using cause I smelled it on him, and checked his car and it's was smelling of pot too, but he tried to mask it with some cherry scent spray and sprays it in the A/C vents with the A/C on to circulate it in the system.
he also comes home, and tries to sneak in and goes into the shower immediately to get the smell off.

I am troubled that he feels he needs to risk his parole by doing this to himself. also, if he wants of parole in 13 months, why risk a violation? it will cost him another year, and I didn't expect him to be with us that long. I want to give him some guidance and direction, but he basically doesn't listen, so why frustrate myself or my wife, or risk more exposure to younger kids by a kid who won't grow up? or take responsibility?


Call the parole office and ask them what they test for. You don't have to give your information. Say you have concern for someone coming out to live with you and you want to guarantee his success. What are they doing to support you in this effort? What can you expect from them in regards to testing to insure that your trust is not being broken in your house?

Are you hoping for him to make it off parole in 13 months?
Is your plan to help him develop and he was leaving anyway?
Whether he acts innocent or is innocent is what you want to know. Is your concern the lack of proof that he is doing what your younger children say?

I would want to know what is the worse case for him if found positive for drug use. Do you think he is using?

Moving this to the Now That your loved one is home forum....

Ahhhh I'm shaking my head understanding how frustrating this is for you...

Listen to the younger boys. He is apt to be somewhat more honest with them although mostly he is trying to "hype" his credentials with them. It sounds like you trust them so go with that.

If they say he offered drugs why not search his room/belongings. It's your house you have that right. Tough love!

It sounds like he's frustrated, fearful and unsteady. By no means does that mean he has to fail. He is fortunate that he has you whether he is ready and willing to accept that fact is another story completely.

Keep working on and with him but never let him put you or your family in danger. You know this, I only reinforce. We've chatted before if you need me I'm only a PM away....

Thinking of you and yours,
Patty

Seems my son doesn't really want to change. he is acting like a prisoner in my own home. Won't help out, won't contribute, just wants to get off parole so he can go back to all his drug buddies in Northern California to get back into what he is most comfortable with, making a quick buck.

He tells his younger brothers that I don't do anything for him. We give him free food and a nice room. You think he would offer to take out the trash, or bring the trash cans back in, nope. He hangs his girlie magazine calendar with half naked women in his room. i took it down. he eats the food, and doesn't even tell us when the milk is gone. My 6 year old step daughter goes without breakfast.

uses all the laundry detergent, and doesn't care when it's empty. I asked him for $50.00 a week, he got mad. Instead he bought $450.00 worth of stereo eqipment for his car, and borrowed money for new tires, and it's a priority for him to pay back everyone but he can't buy a loaf of bread.

He found a new freind, and goes over and smoked pot with him. I told him I want him in the house by 10:00pm, but last night he came in at 11:30pm. I was already in bed.

We have tried to cut him a lot of slack, but his priorities are wrong. he tells his brothers he can't wait to leave, he hates it.

He is locked here, can't rent a room from anyone because his parole agent says if he leaves our home he goes back to where he was initially picked up, Sacramento, California where he has nobody. He will be homeless up there and without a job.

He just takes us for granted, and is using us. We didn't expect such an ingrained young man, but he is who he is. My wife is no longer comfortable with him here. We just can't quite feel good anymore about helping someone who doesn't want to change or be helped. he talks behind my back, and is a bad influence on his 13 year old brother.

We feel bad to klick him out, because it's like a prison sentence to him. It won't be long before he ends up back in jail.

We think once he is off parole, he will be back in prison in a very short time.
he doesn't care. he has a bad attitude, listens to crap rap music, smokes pot behind our backs, and has no respect. No courtesy, no thanks for everything dad, thanks for a place to stay, for food, for paying for everything.

We don't know what to do.

I am so sorry to hear this. It is a fear all of us parents live with. I know another young man who just got out of prison a couple of weeks ago. He went to live with his aunt's family. I heard today that he has been kicked out because of his wild ways. It is a hard thing to do but it was the best decision for the sake of the couple's 12 yr old daughter. I suspect he will be back in prison soon. My son gets out in less than 3 weeks. I am hoping and praying things go well. I have learned that we can't make them change. They have to do it themselves.

I am so sorry you're going thru this... You do need to do what's best for your family and it sure sounds like he hasn't hit bottom and doesn't want to change his lifestyle yet.... ((hugs))

Deb

I have been at whitts end over my daughter and her rebeliousness. She is my daughter and I love her but she has a mind of her own. She has put us both through so much It'd take forever to list. My wife asked what I wanted to do. My response, giver her so much rope she can't help but to hang herself and when she does let her pay the piper for her dance. I told my daughter what we were doing and she has been much better, I told her she was at an age that we can not save her from herself anymore. We can not help someone that doesn't think there is a problem or does see it and refuse the help. I'm pretty cold to her and point blank when I'm upest. I say things that my wife never could to her and she will at least listen to my words because she knows I'll cut her loose. I'd loom around in the backround but she knows I'd let her get burned at the same time. I think it's tougher love. or insanity. It seems to be working though.

I guess I'm going to havde to findout just what "tough love' is.
I can't have a stranger living with us, that doesn't respect our wishes, and comes and goes as he pleases and doesn't want to participate.

thanks for your words, gives me something to think about.


I have been at whitts end over my daughter and her rebeliousness. She is my daughter and I love her but she has a mind of her own. She has put us both through so much It'd take forever to list. My wife asked what I wanted to do. My response, giver her so much rope she can't help but to hang herself and when she does let her pay the piper for her dance. I told my daughter what we were doing and she has been much better, I told her she was at an age that we can not save her from herself anymore. We can not help someone that doesn't think there is a problem or does see it and refuse the help. I'm pretty cold to her and point blank when I'm upest. I say things that my wife never could to her and she will at least listen to my words because she knows I'll cut her loose. I'd loom around in the backround but she knows I'd let her get burned at the same time. I think it's tougher love. or insanity. It seems to be working though.

You are in an unfortunate situation. I wonder if he 's even considered what's gonna happen when his parole agent decides to drug test him, maybe he doesn't care. I have had to deal with a daughter who although she's not been to prison
treated my home much like your son treats yours. Her lifestyle was similar to his as well. I love my daughter very much but it came to a point where I had to let her make her own decision, good, bad or otherwise OUTSIDE of my home. If, as you say he only wants to get through his parole so that he can go right back to the same friends and lifestyle he was involved in prior to his incarceration then you may for the sake of your family and your sanity have to ask him to leave. This situation sounds like it's taking a toll on your marriage and is not healthy for the younger children. Your older son should know very well the consequences of his actions. It is your minor children who can gain a valuable lesson about life, how family members should treat one another, the dangers of drug use, gang and street life, incarceration, etc. I know this is a difficult time for you and I wish you all the best.

Patty

The hardest part is that I think he is trying, but he gives up too easily, and just resents being told what to do. If I don't offer to pay him to help me around the house, he won't. He goes over his freinds house to help him with cement work, or painting, in exchange for pot. He knows how to clean his system fast, so when they drug test him, it comes up negative. I don't know how you can do that, but he must know a way.

I can just ask him to transfer back to Northern California, but then he would lose his job, and his car. If it takes more of a toll on my wife and this home, I don't care what happens, he will be asked to go. If he ends up homeless, tobad, if he ends up back in the can, his problem. I know this is the one and only chance for me and him to bond, and so far it's just not working. I just pray for him now, and hope for the best. Maybe he will turn around.

((((Prodigal dad)))) I know how you feel and in turn feel for you. My daughter was clean for a number of years (methamphetamine) and has recently relapsed. I can't help her as she refuses to help herself. We live in different states at this point (she is in Northern California which is where I am from originally). I have family there looking out for her (she's 26 now). The saddest part is that she is dragging her son, my grandbaby a wonderful 8 year old boy through all of this with her. They are moving from one friends house to the next, she will probably end up giving up her son to family for a time which honestly at this point would be the best thing for him.

We have a long history of clinical depression and self-medicating in our family, drinking, drug abuse both legal and illegal. She's a sad girl who has lost her way but is unwilling at this point to accept realistic help (she just wants others to "do" for her or "give" to her).

I guess I'm just trying to paint a picture for you. We tried everything we could with her. Now she has to do for herself or suffer the consequences. It is very sad but she leaves us few options. At this point we do what we (family/extended family) do for the sake of my grandson. She is loved and a necessary part of our family and I hope that very soon she will come to realize that. I hope the same for your son and your family.

Best wishes,
Patty

Dear Prodigal Dad:

I am wondering if there is some sort of program for troubled young people or other structured environment that your son might qualify for. If his PO is very busy you might have to do the research and legwork on your own, unfortunately. I honestly don't think that you are at fault here (we all *know* you're not), but I also don't think that, at this point, your home is the right place for your son at this time.

The problem as I see it is that, since he's been in trouble for so many years, he has delayed the maturation process from early adolescence to young adulthood. You are dealing with a young adult that is behaving like a rebellious young teen. Concepts like helping out at home and contributing financially needed to be taught over many years; appreciation, too, takes time to develop in a person. Worse, he has access to things that most kids between 13 and 15 don't; a car, drugs, money. He believes himself to have grown up by having reached a certain chronological age. To top it off, he faces severe legal consequences that young teens don't--and doesn't, from what you've told us, appear to "get" that at all. This is a recipe for serious trouble--which of course you don't want him to fall into, because the "justice" system is so flawed that he won't find help there.

Your home offers a level of freedom and responsibility that he simply isn't ready for, IMO. There's also the danger to his younger siblings and also to your relationship with your wife. If that is damaged, none of you will be in any shape to help him later; your home life must be preserved for everyone's sake.

I would recommend looking for a therapeutic placement for him; I'm sure the great people here on PT might have some idea of where to look. Also, what were his grades like in school? Do you think that he might eventually want to get into college or a vocational program? Perhaps a goal of some sort will instill hope for the future; a lot of people get stuck in the present and don't care about consequences in a future of which they can't conceive.

Wow, looks as if I've overspent my two cents. :) I am sorry for the pain you're going through and hope that it all works out for you.

Blessings,

Jen

I would like to apologize that you have to go through this. I have gone through it with my brother in law. Obviously he is not my kid so I am sure it is much harder on you. But he was the same way. Didn't care about anything. He has 3 kids and a wife but the drugs meant more to him than anything. We tried everything to help him but he didn't want the help. I agree with Patti~ Tough Love is the way you are going to have to go. That is how we got with him. We would bail him out of jail everytime he got locked up. Said he would change. And he never did. Finally we had to stop caring in order for him to realize we were done with the way he was acting. This final time he got locked up we didn't bail him. Now he will be sentenced next month to 10-12 yrs. in prison. But what we have to keep in mind is that we would rather have him in prison than dead on the streets.

I do wish you luck with your son and I will pray that everything works out for you.

Your son is 26. You want to turn back the clock and raise him now. Can't do it. He's already raised. It doesn't sound like he's trying to me; it sounds like he's biding his time until he's off paper and can do whatever he wants. Let him. MY bf was the same way. He was a teenager for over 25 years. He got slammed by the system enough, and it finally taught him about the consequences that his years with an inadequate mother and my well-meaning but wasted example did not. You are banging your head against a brick wall (sadly, you love that @#$%! wall, but there it is). You have the young ones to think about, and even if the older one has a hard time figuring things out, they will learn that you are willing to lay down the law even when it breaks your heart.