My husband was sentenced to four years last year, serving half time, for stealing a lasagna. They gave him a strike for it. His second, so that is why he got 4 years for a lousy piece of lasagna! They tried to double strike his first offense that originally gave him a felony, which was a petty theft gone bad, so that they can say " well if you get into any trouble after this" we will double strike your first case, third strike your last case, and your out! This is stupid! I need my husband home with me and our children. He stole the lasagna to take home to feed our family. I just had a baby, couldnt work and we just werent making it! I AM VOTING YES ON 66 mad:

:angry: TRIPLE STRIKES FOR STEALING LASAGNA :angry:
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!!!


I AM WITH YOU ALL THE WAY!!!!!

VOTE "YES on 66"
TUESDAY NOVEMBER 2nd

I must say that as much as you want to glorify his heroic act of stealing lasagna to feed your family, it still remains a concious act of breaking the law. There are food banks, and shelters ect. that you could have resorted to instead of unlawful actions. I have gone 2 days without eating in the past month 3 times, and not once did I consider being a thief. And it is because I have no desire to go to jail.

I must say that as much as you want to glorify his heroic act of stealing lasagna to feed your family, it still remains a concious act of breaking the law. There are food banks, and shelters ect. that you could have resorted to instead of unlawful actions. I have gone 2 days without eating in the past month 3 times, and not once did I consider being a thief. And it is because I have no desire to go to jail.
There are several charities in the city that missingken has listed as her location that could have helped her, rather than having to resort to stealing lasagna.. a crisis center, a Loaves and Fishes kitchen... both are well advertised in the area.

I'm sorry that missingken and her man didn't know about the existence of these groups... probably would have saved their entire family the heartbreak.

I am so sorry to hear that. It is offenses like these that overcrowds the prisons. While I do not condone breaking the law, I still have empathy for someone who gets a ridiculous sentence for a crime such as this.

I wish you and your husband all of the best life can give you right now. Stay strong and urge people to get out there and vote who are able to.
Something clearly needs to be done.

To Both:

Please remember that this a support site....please don't judge ANYONE on this site as you honestly you not know the circumstances!!

And as the Bible says....Do not Judge lest you be judged...food for thought!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBSICKGIRL
I must say that as much as you want to glorify his heroic act of stealing lasagna to feed your family, it still remains a concious act of breaking the law. There are food banks, and shelters ect. that you could have resorted to instead of unlawful actions. I have gone 2 days without eating in the past month 3 times, and not once did I consider being a thief. And it is because I have no desire to go to jail.

There are several charities in the city that missingken has listed as her location that could have helped her, rather than having to resort to stealing lasagna.. a crisis center, a Loaves and Fishes kitchen... both are well advertised in the area.

I'm sorry that missingken and her man didn't know about the existence of these groups... probably would have saved their entire family the heartbreak.

To Both:

Please remember that this a support site....please don't judge ANYONE on this site as you honestly you not know the circumstances!!

And as the Bible says....Do not Judge lest you be judged...food for thought!!!

I wasn't judging. I was pointing out that there are resources availible in her community that could have helped her family. How is that judging someone?

For the record, I think how the 3 strikes law is being enforced is ludicrous too.

Where I live, when someone steals, they get fined, and often put into some type of community contribution program (depending on how successful the candidate). At worst, 30 days at county, which is no picnic. The county jails are way worse than the federal institutions. The fine as well, comes in addition to any restitution and court costs. People can be fined in excess of $500, and each item stolen is counted as a single charge. This is highly effective in not causing our tax payors to pay any more of their income than necessary, and forces the thieves to give something back. (I'm not judging, but many shoplifters are habitual, hence the fines). A first offence will normally cost someone $300, plus legal fees, as our government will not pay for that unless the person is facing an indictable/felony offence, with incarceration. There is no debtor's prison, debts are sent to a collection agency, with revokation of driver's licenses, or having to appear in court for a judgement, should someone not pay their fines.

They always get their money, and if you go to court, unless you are proven not guilty, the appearance alone will cost you. People here don't do time for petty crimes, unless you're labeled "life of crime", then you go to county.

I thought strikes were for VIOLENT crimes..... petty theft is not a violent crime....
that is so insane!!!!!!!!

I thought strikes were for VIOLENT crimes..... petty theft is not a violent crime....
that is so insane!!!!!!!!

"...They tried to double strike his first offense that originally gave him a felony, which was a petty theft gone bad,..."

Apparently the "petty theft gone bad", became more than just petty theft. It appears that the initial intent of the crime must have turned violent. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for criminals. I can empathize for the situation of putting food on the table, but I do not sympathize. There are too many social programs available these days to feed our children than to involve yourself in criminal activity.

Sidenote: I know of these programs firsthand. I haven't always been a guard. I was over 30 years old when I was hired by the department.

Perfect example of why the Current 3 Strikes Law needs to be changed!:mad: It's petty offenses like this that are overcrowding our prison systems. You have over 4,000 inmate in a prison that was designed to hold 1,800.......then CA is in a huge budget problem and then they go and open up another prison! It's petty offenses like this that need to be given programs not incarceration! Then you have this PROP 36 which sounded good but sure doesn't seem like the courts are using it! I'm not saying that it is okay to steal even a piece of candy, but to put someone in prison for stealing lasagna is just straight crazy!

I fought long and hard to try to educate people so that PROP 66 could pass....however unfortunately it didn't, but I am not giving up. I will continue to do all I can until this law is changed.

actually, the courts in my town use prop 36 all the time and the accused abuse the heck out of it.. as a result there is a serious epidemic of drug induced psychotics (ie methheads)running amok...
oh.. and it seems like there is a good business for any willing dope dealer... so I am pretty sure the cops are not really all that interested in arresting anyone for dope... because the sickest of the sick seem to never get in trouble with the law.

not to mention, any repeat offenders who actually DO get popped dont seem to suffer any consquences other than be given 4 more AA/NA meetings a month.
It really cheapens the whole recovery experience... to a card signing party and after meeting discussions of how to beat a rap.

Prop 36 is a mismanaged joke... it makes CDC look like a job well done!!!

actually, the courts in my town use prop 36 all the time and the accused abuse the heck out of it.. as a result there is a serious epidemic of drug induced psychotics (ie methheads)running amok...
oh.. and it seems like there is a good business for any willing dope dealer... so I am pretty sure the cops are not really all that interested in arresting anyone for dope... because the sickest of the sick seem to never get in trouble with the law.

not to mention, any repeat offenders who actually DO get popped dont seem to suffer any consquences other than be given 4 more AA/NA meetings a month.
It really cheapens the whole recovery experience... to a card signing party and after meeting discussions of how to beat a rap.

Prop 36 is a mismanaged joke... it makes CDC look like a job well done!!!

Ain't that the truth! We have them all over Crescent City also. Diversion, after diversion, after diversion program. More taxpayer money wasted every time.

Which brings me to my next point...To answer your signature 88reasons. "When does rehabilitation begin? :idea: " Rehabilitation begins when the criminal decides that a life of crime is no longer worth him/her wasting their lives in prison.

Ain't that the truth! We have them all over Crescent City also. Diversion, after diversion, after diversion program. More taxpayer money wasted every time.

Which brings me to my next point...To answer your signature 88reasons. "When does rehabilitation begin? :idea: " Rehabilitation begins when the criminal decides that a life of crime is no longer worth him/her wasting their lives in prison.

Gatekeeper, don't you work for the California Department of Corrections AND REHABILITATION ? So when is your department going to start the rehabilitation part?

I think one of the biggest waste of taxpayer money is the way that the present Three Strikes law is implemented. And BTW programs truly work when buracratic BS and greed are NOT entered into the mix. Prop 36 IS a viable program when implemented PROPERLY!

Gatekeeper, don't you work for the California Department of Corrections AND REHABILITATION ? So when is your department going to start the rehabilitation part?

I think one of the biggest waste of taxpayer money is the way that the present Three Strikes law is implemented. And BTW programs truly work when buracratic BS and greed are NOT entered into the mix. Prop 36 IS a viable program when implemented PROPERLY!

Where lies the difference in ideology. I do work for the Department of Corrections. I will never refer to myself as working for the Department of Corrections and REHABILITATION. I do not believe it is my/our responsibility to rehabilitate anyone. Rehab comes from inside the person themselves. Not from me, a program, the community, or state. No matter how much program and money your throw at a person to try and rehabilitate them, it will not work, until the person themselves accept the rehabilitation and apply it. We have already been the rehab route in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. It didn't work then and it definitely won't work today. Everyone thinks that the government is required to carry their load for them and wants everything handed to them on a silver platter without working for it. People say that us guards make too much money and have alot of things. Well, we work hard for that pay and those things. Mostly mentally moreso than pyhysically. All it takes is a GED/Diploma and a clean record and you too can make the easy money.

Remember when we stopped calling them prisons? We named them institutions instead of prisons. Deull Vocational Institute, California Training Center, California Rehabilitation Center... We have already been down that road and it was a dead end. We wound up with a 85+% recidivism rate within the first year of release with all of these social programs in place. We stopped these programs because they were a waste of money. The inmates were taking advantage of the programs in the prisons to make their time in prison easier on themselves, and never applied the training when they got out. We have created such a welfare state with too many programs that everyone thinks that they have something coming without having to work/achieve it.

Where lies the difference in ideology. I do work for the Department of Corrections. I will never refer to myself as working for the Department of Corrections and REHABILITATION. I do not believe it is my/our responsibility to rehabilitate anyone. Rehab comes from inside the person themselves. Not from me, a program, the community, or state. No matter how much program and money your throw at a person to try and rehabilitate them, it will not work, until the person themselves accept the rehabilitation and apply it. We have already been the rehab route in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. It didn't work then and it definitely won't work today. Everyone thinks that the government is required to carry their load for them and wants everything handed to them on a silver platter without working for it. People say that us guards make too much money and have alot of things. Well, we work hard for that pay and those things. Mostly mentally moreso than pyhysically. All it takes is a GED/Diploma and a clean record and you too can make the easy money.

Remember when we stopped calling them prisons? We named them institutions instead of prisons. Deull Vocational Institute, California Training Center, California Rehabilitation Center... We have already been down that road and it was a dead end. We wound up with a 85+% recidivism rate within the first year of release with all of these social programs in place. We stopped these programs because they were a waste of money. The inmates were taking advantage of the programs in the prisons to make their time in prison easier on themselves, and never applied the training when they got out. We have created such a welfare state with too many programs that everyone thinks that they have something coming without having to work/achieve it.

Ideology has nothing to do with it! YOU DO WORK FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATION! AND WHEN and IF THE Rehabilitation part ever kicks in hopefully you will be a part of the solution rather than the problem. People that work for Microsoft might not like the name but they still do what is expected of them (if they want to keep their job) but the people at Mircosoft don't have a union as largre as CCOPA either. I think that I have made my point and I will consider your made also!

Ain't that the truth! We have them all over Crescent City also. Diversion, after diversion, after diversion program. More taxpayer money wasted every time.

Which brings me to my next point...To answer your signature 88reasons. "When does rehabilitation begin? :idea: " Rehabilitation begins when the criminal decides that a life of crime is no longer worth him/her wasting their lives in prison.

I agree with you completely, GK,
I have many associations in recovery and locked up in institutions, and the bottom line is,you have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired before you want it to be different. I know only one person in the CDC system actually doing his rehabilitation. ANd he utilizes what is available... He is not only active in his own recovery, but helps others to realize their own abilit to turn it around .,,, and he's a LIFER!I can only hope my main man follows his lead.
too bad the environment isnt set up for people to stop the criminal mentality. If they werent treated like criminals (but the dysfunctional adult children they actually are). they might stop being criminals. you know.,...pay it forward!

I think there is a real lacking in the whole psychology of corrections theory... but then.... there is an entire war scenario that fulfills a man's lust for power and all that is not socially acceptable going on... its a messy messy deal all the way around.

I agree with you completely, GK,
I have many associations in recovery and locked up in institutions, and the bottom line is,you have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired before you want it to be different. I know only one person in the CDC system actually doing his rehabilitation. ANd he utilizes what is available... He is not only active in his own recovery, but helps others to realize their own abilit to turn it around .,,, and he's a LIFER!I can only hope my main man follows his lead.
too bad the environment isnt set up for people to stop the criminal mentality. If they werent treated like criminals (but the dysfunctional adult children they actually are). they might stop being criminals. you know.,...pay it forward!

I think there is a real lacking in the whole psychology of corrections theory... but then.... there is an entire war scenario that fulfills a man's lust for power and all that is not socially acceptable going on... its a messy messy deal all the way around.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it that way on this forum. ;)

The only thing I can comment on is the quote, "...too bad the environment isn't set up for people to stop the criminal mentality..."

The system/environment isn't set up by us (CDC). we can only attempt to control the environment to insure safety and security as best we can, dealing with ...well, you know. I think you'll agree. ;)

I am not there to be anyone's best friend/daddy/mommy/priest/homie, etc... I am there to insure that the convicts in my prison remain behind the walls until the warden says to release them. I am there to insure the safety and security of my fellow officers, and to insure the safety and security of the convicts under my supervison. That's it! He done the crime, now he can do the time. The convicts know what the CA prison system is like before they even hit R&R. After going through county and hearing everything from the guys that have "been there", they are pretty oriented to prison life. They are aware that the whole culture is gang based and they have to "soldier-up" with their race when they get in. The inmates create the environment, we don't. The forced inter-racial celling that is supposed to come about is a good thing in my opinion. CA allowed the inmate gangs to create that monster, now the courts are telling us it's our responsibility to break the monster the inmates created. It's gonna be messy folks. Once again, you can thank another inmate law suit for that one. CA is the only remaining state that I am aware of that still allows racial segregation when celling up inmates. Now that it's a part of their culture and it's gonna be a bear to change it. BUT, it can be done.

The convicts I walk and talk with all know that it's not us that makes the program, it's them. We have always been a reactionary force. That's CDC's mistake from a long time ago. We should have been proactive many years ago to stop some of the culture that has embedded itself in the prison system. The lock downs, modified programs, yard schedules and numbers, work programs, are all a direct result of inmate behavior. We have reacted to the way the population acts. All the programs are affected by inmate behavior and court orders. We (CDC) lost our prison system to the politicians and the courts 10 years ago. Now you are all seeing the results of that take over. You won't believe me, but if the guards were the ones that ran the prison system, your loved one would not like it inside very much, but he would be safer, and I would venture to say, more tolerant of others in the end. We did not have the level of violence that is skyrocketing every day when guards ran the tiers and the prisons. There was mutual respect between the cops and the cons. That is now lost because of the courts, politicians and the administration now run these programs. I have watched them try to please every group, gang, and individual inmate. It don't work in prison. You cannot please all the people all the time. Remember that saying? Prison is not supposed to be a walk in the park. You are sent to prison for punishment, not to be coddled and treated like a little child. But alas, that is what it has turned out to be. We are now CDC (California Day Care). I am an overpaid babysitter. I would rather be the guard that I am supposed to be, and so would the real convicts. Convicts want to be treated like men, inmates want to be treated like children. Lately the children outnumber the men. Next time you write him, ask your S/O if he is, or wants to be a convict, or an inmate.

Lock them up and throw away the key! That has been the American mentality, for more than 100 years, now. Guess what folks – It does not work!!!!!!!!

Rehabilitation has never been given a fair shot, in this country. When a few intelligent politicians got the idea to try to change lives, instead of destroy them, decades back, they met with opposition, from every side. Afterall, who in their right mind would waste our tax dollars to educate or treat the mental and emotional problems of young Americans, rather than house them with murders and con men.

Recidivism rates have always been the same, check your figures. Two out of ten, who are locked up tonight have a shot sat staying out more than 18 months, after release. Not very good odds, do you think? Those same figures held true throughout the entire last century. There has never been a difference. We have more than 2 million people locked up, tonight. Of those 8 out of 10 are there, for drug related offenses. You would think we have a lot of dealers locked up. But no, try again. The large majority is there, for personal use. In fact, they are 8 out of 10 those locked up, for drug use.

Do not think that real criminals go to jail. Petty thieves go to jail, for needing a fix or the addicted for wanting a high. The dealers have money and never do time. We do not lock up violent offenders, we incarcerate people, who are already trying to destroy themselves and then teach them how to finish the job, at the taxpayer’s expense. I know too many, who are either serving time or who have, to be told much about the prison system that make me look upon it favorably, nomatter who is running the show.

As far as respect between guards and prisoners, I know the respect referred to, it comes at the end of a guard’s favored weapon. I have friends, who were in the system, before I was born, in 1963 and have friends inside now. I am married to a DR inmate.. And there are good guys and bad guys toting those weapon, just like with cops. Before anyone was paying attention, a rowdy inmate was abused, until they complied. Unfortunately, so were those, who tried to mind their own business and act like the men they were.

Nomore than good cops will stand up to the abuses of bad cops that are inflicted upon inmates, will a good guard stand up to a bad one. For that reason the rules and regulations, to at least limit the abuses have to be in place. It still does not stop the abuse and I do know this is true, from the statements of inmates and guards alike.

You know, several, of the local law enforcement officers, who were willing to play Dad to a kid that did not have a parent sober enough to care kept me from going downas a kid. When the easy answer was incarcerating me, they left me on the streets and they played babysitter, more than once. A guard has the chance to touch the lives of kids, who have never been loved a day in their lives and it damn sure can make a difference. Respect is earned, when we treat others like human beings, not when they are forced into compliance.

So, think about it – America has spent more than 100 years trying to force a segment of society, which can not deal with society as is, into compliance. For that effort we are out billions, in tax dollars. Drug use is steadily rising, in all age groups. The prisons are overcrowded and we incarcerate more and more Americans, everyday. Violence is increasing and the prisons breed new gang members, murderers and thieves everyday. The prison system has never worked and it never will, but it is now embedded into the economy to a point that our children have become a commodity and noone seems to care.

Three strikes laws are in place to make certain the prison population never dwindles This assures people like the Gatekeeper, never loose their jobs. The vast majority, of the prison population, across the U.S. is under the age, of 25. We lock up our kids, for smoking a joint, with murderers and do so to keep the economy booming. They go in at 18, for a joint, and back at 19, for hard drug use. By the age of 25 they are down under 3 strikes, for murder. It is a at trick they learned inside. Go figure!!!

AMEN Eldon's wife! Now is there a moderator that might get this thread back on topic? And maybe the Gatekeeper can start a DIFFERENT thread about how much he dislikes inmates.

AMEN Eldon's wife! Now is there a moderator that might get this thread back on topic? And maybe the Gatekeeper can start a DIFFERENT thread about how much he dislikes inmates.

No. :p

Welfare state. Interesting topic. Take the time to learn the difference between the intentions of welfare(good)and the results. One line of thinking is that families accept welfare as a way of life over generations. Welfare to aid the few who are unable to provide for themselves is a wonderful idea but its expanded to where entire families fail to realize their potential and explore everything thats available because they accept welfare(whatever is given to them) as a way of life.

Another book studies Britain and their welfare system. Not very different from the other studies other than those on welfare are predominately white so race is not a factor.

As far as prison programs go...to me prison is attempting to present a new lifestyle. A beginners course since many of our clients have not lived anywhere near a normal lifestyle. Wake up everyday at the same time, go to work/school everyday, eat 3 balanced meals a day and dress/act properly. Simple things like this are the start to be gainfully employed/live healthy once released. I think from reading here that many want their family members to be prepared to earn $50000 or more a year when they get out and, if they could, everything would be okay. We are dealing with people with spotty employment/education and no matter their age when they are released they have to be prepared to start where a younger person would. They will not be given pay/responsibility until they earn it. It takes time. Keeping things simple, if you go to work every day and live healthy and are happy with what you do have good things will happen. Does anyone need to be taught that or is simply a choice anyone can(or won't) make?

GC as always I appreciate your insight and your voice of reason. EVERYONE is going to have to live with felons at some point in their lives, as CO's, husbands, wives, sons, daughters,parents, friends,neighbors, grocery checkers and sooner or later EVERYONE is going to have to take a good look at how we treat human beings in our society. INMATES included. The lock um up and throw away the key theory has not worked and will not and sooner or later our society is going to have to realize that. There are programs that work when buracracy does not take over the intent and the goal of the program and when the abuse stops at the top then it will surely stop at the bottom! I am not counting on people like Arnold to make a difference with a simple name change, attitudes are going to have to change and hopefully that will come sooner rather than later!

Again, the present 3 Strikes Law needs to be revised and some common sense changes need to be made because the 19 year old that gets locked up under the present law for something stupid will only be 44 when he gets out of prison with zero hope for the future after paying his debt to society.

Well, until these guys realize that the gang lifestyle is wrong they won't change. They fall in line with the gangs and follow orders. Society has put it out that gangs and drugs and guns and violence are bad. Yet there continue to be a large number of people who choose this anti-social lifestyle and wind up in prison where the onus and resulting blame has fallen for not being able to change the behaviors that brought them there. What is the thinking behind that? Is it easier to blame a prison which is filled with, to society, undesirable individuals than it is to blame institutions like family, school and community? Or should there be blame anywhere? I know I could never steal or hurt anyone, I just don't have it in me. Is it that simple, people just have it in them to do wrong?

Prisons were correct in trying to break up the gangs and seperate gang members. It hasn't worked but an attempt was made. They are the problem. Absolutely no problem recruiting someone who doesn't want to continue and forcing them to do as they're told. I always hear how street gangs were formed to protect their communities. Have these gangs used their drug money to send people to college or assist single mothers? No. In fact, their members are more likely to ridicule people who want to continue their education or go to work or even steal from the mothers in their communities. They've yet to do anything good. Well, I did hear where they made a mistake and crippled one of their members for life because they thought he was a snitch. They are, as the story goes, paying his family. Is that good?

3 strikes is the topic. Well, if I see someone continuing to commit illegal acts in and out of the prisons and is obviously committed to the lifestyle I don't think protecting the public from them for as long as possible is a bad thing.

Well, until these guys realize that the gang lifestyle is wrong they won't change. They fall in line with the gangs and follow orders. Society has put it out that gangs and drugs and guns and violence are bad. Yet there continue to be a large number of people who choose this anti-social lifestyle and wind up in prison where the onus and resulting blame has fallen for not being able to change the behaviors that brought them there. What is the thinking behind that? Is it easier to blame a prison which is filled with, to society, undesirable individuals than it is to blame institutions like family, school and community? Or should there be blame anywhere? I know I could never steal or hurt anyone, I just don't have it in me. Is it that simple, people just have it in them to do wrong?

Prisons were correct in trying to break up the gangs and seperate gang members. It hasn't worked but an attempt was made. They are the problem. Absolutely no problem recruiting someone who doesn't want to continue and forcing them to do as they're told. I always hear how street gangs were formed to protect their communities. Have these gangs used their drug money to send people to college or assist single mothers? No. In fact, their members are more likely to ridicule people who want to continue their education or go to work or even steal from the mothers in their communities. They've yet to do anything good. Well, I did hear where they made a mistake and crippled one of their members for life because they thought he was a snitch. They are, as the story goes, paying his family. Is that good?

3 strikes is the topic. Well, if I see someone continuing to commit illegal acts in and out of the prisons and is obviously committed to the lifestyle I don't think protecting the public from them for as long as possible is a bad thing.

RIGHT ON! You hit the nail on the head GC. Bravisimo! :thumbsup:

The thread starter hasnt been back since this posting this thread. Since the thread has now gone off topic it will be closed.